DPT to MD - what are the chances?

[Dr. J - DPT vs. MD]

Hi all,

I am a DPT that graduated from the University of Montana in May 2015. I have been practicing at a private outpatient clinic for over 2 years now and love it. Like most PTs, I once considered M.D. vs PA vs PT. I ultimately chose DPT for multiple reasons:

• Plenty of one-on-one time with patients several times per week building relationships and really being able to figure out what works for them and what doesn't.
• M-F schedule in a private outpatient schedule
• 3 years of graduate school versus the time commitment of medical school and a residency
• I really enjoy manual therapy techniques (mobilizations, muscle energy techniques, dry needling) and teaching people exercises.

BUT, I can't seem to shake this feeling...I wish I went to med school. Basically, I am frustrated about:

• Horrible debt to income ratio for DPTs in Montana.
• Lack of respect from the general public and other healthcare professionals compared to M.D.s
• I often feel like my hands are tied with our limited scope of practice.
• I just feel like I can do MORE!

I have a few major things holding me back from applying to med school at this point...My undergrad was in Health and Human Performance - Exercise Science. My GPA was 3.84. I was involved in many, many clubs and was the president of Montana State University's Mortar Board my senior year. However, I DID NOT TAKE O-CHEM OR BIOCHEMISTRY...Is this an absolute must to be considered as a candidate? I took chemistry 1&2, physics 1&2, stats 1&2, survey of calculus, and anatomy 1&2. My upper division classes included neurophysiology, genetics, advanced anatomy (dissection of the extremities), biomechanics, and kinesiology. I also got a 3.45 in physical therapy school, which was definitely a rigorous course load.

I know the MCAT will probably have a lot of O-Chem and Biochemistry and I am prepared to do a lot of studying on my own and hopefully take it in the spring.

I would really like to apply to the University of Washington WWAMI program and they technically don't require O-Chem as far as I can tell....I just don't want to go through the whole process of studying and taking the MCAT and spending a lot of time and money on my application just to be weeded out immediately.

Sorry that was so long. Can anyone help me figure out what I should do or if I'm crazy?!

PS - I am interested in pursuing a PM&R or family medicine residency after med school at this point.

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[RunawayGrape]

In general, you have to take organic chemistry. If UW's WWAMI program doesn't require it, then I guess you don't have to take it if that's the only school you want to apply to. But most schools require at least one semester of organic chemistry. I'm not sure where schools stand on biochem though--I think some require it, but most don't (but it's very useful for the MCAT nevertheless).

There's definitely nothing holding you back from going to med school. I don't know about the clinical experience/volunteering "requirements" that you might need to fulfill for the sake of admissions though. You might want to call up the Office of Admissions and ask about that. It feels odd telling a PT that they need to have some shadowing and volunteer hours for med school, but that sort of advice applies to premeds, so I guess I'll tell it to you too.

If you can do well on the MCAT, your chances are as good as anybody else. But it's impossible to tell you what your chances are without an MCAT score. And again, you should probably take organic chemistry so that you can apply to other schools, unless you're okay with only applying to UW (which I wouldn't recommend at all).

Sounds like you're afraid of wasting time and money on the process, but applying to med school is an inherently risky process, even for 22 year-old premeds. If being a physician is really what you want, and you're happy ditching the PT life, then go for it.

 

[gyngyn]

There are around 20 schools that have no specific pre-reqs.
You still need to establish competency, though. Getting a good grade in the class might actually be the easier.

 

[Dral]

You have to think a lot about this. The whole process will likely take at least 7 to 8 years from starting school until you are practicing. That's assuming you do three year residency and don't fellow. Let's say you go the route of PMR (maybe something you'd do based on your past). You would be in school for 4, intern year for 1, then residency for 3. Add on more years if you fellow in sports medicine or something.

I'm in my second year of practice, try to channel 8 to 12k a month into paying back loans, and I still owe around $225,000.

 

[001002154]

I also am a PT (DPT) and decided to go back to med school. I'm in my 5th year of practice. I also did not take o chem or biochem during undergrad. I took orgo 1 and studied/sat for the MCAT earlier this spring. Ideally, one would have at least orgo 1 and biochem done before the MCAT, but I made it alright. It definitely is a big commitment after already completing one fairly rigorous graduate program (and the cost of it). If you have any specific questions, pm me.

Note: I have applied this cycle, have not been accepted yet, so no med school experience.

 

[Skiiiiiing]

Biochem should be considered mandatory. The basis being that it's about a third of c/p and fully half of bio on the MCAT.

Ochem 1 is a weeder that everyone does, will look bad if you try to skip it. Ochem 2 was among the easiest of my premed courses.

 

[Bruster]

I am also a PT in my 5th year of practice in the midst of applying to med school for Fall 2018 matriculation. I ended up deciding to take O Chem 2 and Biochem because I didn't want to be limited in where I applied to school. Also, being a career changer, I wanted to have some recent coursework to demonstrate that I could still hack it academically. It helped me tremendously in the MCAT - i could have self-studied but this provided structure and a timeline.

Best of luck! I think we PTs have some unique perspectives to provide in the medical world so I'm excited to see some of us going for it!

 

[Windpt21]

I also am a PT (DPT) and decided to go back to med school. I'm in my 5th year of practice. I also did not take o chem or biochem during undergrad. I took orgo 1 and studied/sat for the MCAT earlier this spring. Ideally, one would have at least orgo 1 and biochem done before the MCAT, but I made it alright. It definitely is a big commitment after already completing one fairly rigorous graduate program (and the cost of it). If you have any specific questions, pm me.

Note: I have applied this cycle, have not been accepted yet, so no med school experience.

How different are PT vs MD school in terms of stress, time, ability to work? In PT school I worked 10-15 hours a week, still had a good social life and am concerned med school will be 100x worse and never have any free time

 

[001002154]

How different are PT vs MD school in terms of stress, time, ability to work? In PT school I worked 10-15 hours a week, still had a good social life and am concerned med school will be 100x worse and never have any free time

Sorry, I meant I am in my 5th year of practice as a PT. Currently in the application/ interview process for med.

 

[DPTinthemaking15]

I LOVE this thread! It is great to see/have people on these forums that I can relate to. Like @Bruster said, I am applying for the 2018 cycle as well! My story is a little different though. I was a first year PT student and spoke with advisors much wiser than me. Long story short, I am finishing up with pre-reqs and going to tackle this beast they call the MCAT during the spring semester. I hope to hear good news from everyone later on next year. Good luck, OP!

 

[Windpt21]

Sorry, I meant I am in my 5th year of practice as a PT. Currently in the application/ interview process for med.

My history: graduated with DPT in 2012 but feel the same way as the person who started this thread. When I went to PT school I had a completely different idea of how the modern PT was viewed by the public. I thought patient's would use direct access and appreciate my education and knowledge in the field, however I've been practicing for 5 years, don't even have the power to write scripts for DME and I can't help but feel like I'm nearing the peak of the PT profession. I am married and my husband is quite hesitant to the med school idea, however I just can't shake this feeling that I should have done more with my career. I am 33 in November and if I start this process I will be 40-42yo when I'm done, I missed out on most of my 20's because of DPT and now I'm going to miss out on my 30's because of med school? I'm just not sure I can take the leap, does anyone else have these concerns?

As for biochem and OChem- I took a year of Ochem but that was in 2004-05! never took biochem, I am noticing many schools say that pre-reqs have to be completed by matriculation, so theoretically you could self study for mcat, if you get an offer of acceptance this winter you could take it spring before school starts, but I'm not sure if that is a smart considering MCAT is heavy biochem.

Experience/Volunteering/shadowing: So I have practiced as a PT for 5 years in Skilled, Acutes, Outpatient Ortho, Home Health and have worked closely with physicians, but have never directly shadowed them, do you think this is truly necessary? prior to PT school (and during) I worked in dialysis. I currently volunteer at a local high school for sports teams since they don't have an ATC. My advisor in undergrad was an MD/anesthesiologist, but has passed away so I won't have that reference but would plan on using peers, supervisors etc. will that hinder my application? I'm sure I could probably convince an MD or two that I worked with at a couple hospitals to write a letter, but I worked with them as a PT not as a volunteer.. Any suggestions?

Sorry for the long thread, but I appreciate the open forum and ability to ask questions.

PS I don't think any of us are crazy for thinking about going to medical school

 

[001002154]

My history: graduated with DPT in 2012 but feel the same way as the person who started this thread. When I went to PT school I had a completely different idea of how the modern PT was viewed by the public. I thought patient's would use direct access and appreciate my education and knowledge in the field, however I've been practicing for 5 years, don't even have the power to write scripts for DME and I can't help but feel like I'm nearing the peak of the PT profession. I am married and my husband is quite hesitant to the med school idea, however I just can't shake this feeling that I should have done more with my career. I am 33 in November and if I start this process I will be 40-42yo when I'm done, I missed out on most of my 20's because of DPT and now I'm going to miss out on my 30's because of med school? I'm just not sure I can take the leap, does anyone else have these concerns?

As for biochem and OChem- I took a year of Ochem but that was in 2004-05! never took biochem, I am noticing many schools say that pre-reqs have to be completed by matriculation, so theoretically you could self study for mcat, if you get an offer of acceptance this winter you could take it spring before school starts, but I'm not sure if that is a smart considering MCAT is heavy biochem.

Experience/Volunteering/shadowing: So I have practiced as a PT for 5 years in Skilled, Acutes, Outpatient Ortho, Home Health and have worked closely with physicians, but have never directly shadowed them, do you think this is truly necessary? prior to PT school (and during) I worked in dialysis. I currently volunteer at a local high school for sports teams since they don't have an ATC. My advisor in undergrad was an MD/anesthesiologist, but has passed away so I won't have that reference but would plan on using peers, supervisors etc. will that hinder my application? I'm sure I could probably convince an MD or two that I worked with at a couple hospitals to write a letter, but I worked with them as a PT not as a volunteer.. Any suggestions?

Sorry for the long thread, but I appreciate the open forum and ability to ask questions.

PS I don't think any of us are crazy for thinking about going to medical school

I'll try to hit on some of your high points.

First, dont feel like you would be missing out on your thirties by going back to school. You'll be able to make time for social events, family events, etc, albeit less than you can right now. Youll be 40-42 in 7-9 years either way, so you just have to decide whether you'll be a PT or MD/DO.

Regarding the MCAT: you'll need an MCAT score in order to apply/ be accepted so your theoretical won't work. I'll tell you how my MCAT prep went, but not saying it will work for everyone. I took Gen Chem 1 and 2 while in high school ('05-06ish) at a local comm college. That was the extent of my chem. I was in the process of taking orgo 1 while studying for the MCAT last spring. I have not had cell bio or biochem, but both wouldve been extremely helpful for the MCAT. I ended up with a 506, my lowest section being chem/phys, as expected.

I would do some shadowing just so you can put it on an application. It doesn't have to be a lot. I only had maybe 20-30 hours of actual shadowing, plus you might meet someone to write you a LOR. I had a LOR from a shadowed physician and 3 from former PT school faculty.

If/ when you apply, the more schools you apply to, the better chance of admittance.

All that being said, Im glad that application process is over for me!

(Sorry for typos.. phone typing..)

 

[Robin-jay]

There are around 20 schools that have no specific pre-reqs.
You still need to establish competency, though. Getting a good grade in the class might actually be the easier.

Do you happen to know an easy way to find this list? I'm definitely curious on what schools they are!

 

[Windpt21]

I'll try to hit on some of your high points.

First, dont feel like you would be missing out on your thirties by going back to school. You'll be able to make time for social events, family events, etc, albeit less than you can right now. Youll be 40-42 in 7-9 years either way, so you just have to decide whether you'll be a PT or MD/DO.

Regarding the MCAT: you'll need an MCAT score in order to apply/ be accepted so your theoretical won't work. I'll tell you how my MCAT prep went, but not saying it will work for everyone. I took Gen Chem 1 and 2 while in high school ('05-06ish) at a local comm college. That was the extent of my chem. I was in the process of taking orgo 1 while studying for the MCAT last spring. I have not had cell bio or biochem, but both wouldve been extremely helpful for the MCAT. I ended up with a 506, my lowest section being chem/phys, as expected.

I would do some shadowing just so you can put it on an application. It doesn't have to be a lot. I only had maybe 20-30 hours of actual shadowing, plus you might meet someone to write you a LOR. I had a LOR from a shadowed physician and 3 from former PT school faculty.

If/ when you apply, the more schools you apply to, the better chance of admittance.

All that being said, Im glad that application process is over for me!

(Sorry for typos.. phone typing..)

Thank you, I meant waiting to take biochem because most such

I'll try to hit on some of your high points.

First, dont feel like you would be missing out on your thirties by going back to school. You'll be able to make time for social events, family events, etc, albeit less than you can right now. Youll be 40-42 in 7-9 years either way, so you just have to decide whether you'll be a PT or MD/DO.

Regarding the MCAT: you'll need an MCAT score in order to apply/ be accepted so your theoretical won't work. I'll tell you how my MCAT prep went, but not saying it will work for everyone. I took Gen Chem 1 and 2 while in high school ('05-06ish) at a local comm college. That was the extent of my chem. I was in the process of taking orgo 1 while studying for the MCAT last spring. I have not had cell bio or biochem, but both wouldve been extremely helpful for the MCAT. I ended up with a 506, my lowest section being chem/phys, as expected.

I would do some shadowing just so you can put it on an application. It doesn't have to be a lot. I only had maybe 20-30 hours of actual shadowing, plus you might meet someone to write you a LOR. I had a LOR from a shadowed physician and 3 from former PT school faculty.

If/ when you apply, the more schools you apply to, the better chance of admittance.

All that being said, Im glad that application process is over for me!

(Sorry for typos.. phone typing..)

Sorry I meant wait to take prereqs not MCAT. Some med schools don’t require prereqs to be completed until matriculation.

Thank you for you advice, I have some MD friends I could reach out to

 

[sunshinefl]

Not a DPT, RN turned first year DO student, but a couple things to add:

1-I know of 2 DPTs in our class
2-if you're really into muscle energy and manual techniques, why are you not considering DO? I'm asking not because I'm personally offended, but because it seems the perfect fit for you!

 

[frosted2]

Hi all,

I am a DPT that graduated from the University of Montana in May 2015. I have been practicing at a private outpatient clinic for over 2 years now and love it. Like most PTs, I once considered M.D. vs PA vs PT. I ultimately chose DPT for multiple reasons:

• Plenty of one-on-one time with patients several times per week building relationships and really being able to figure out what works for them and what doesn't.
• M-F schedule in a private outpatient schedule
• 3 years of graduate school versus the time commitment of medical school and a residency
• I really enjoy manual therapy techniques (mobilizations, muscle energy techniques, dry needling) and teaching people exercises.

BUT, I can't seem to shake this feeling...I wish I went to med school. Basically, I am frustrated about:

• Horrible debt to income ratio for DPTs in Montana.
• Lack of respect from the general public and other healthcare professionals compared to M.D.s
• I often feel like my hands are tied with our limited scope of practice.
• I just feel like I can do MORE!

I have a few major things holding me back from applying to med school at this point...My undergrad was in Health and Human Performance - Exercise Science. My GPA was 3.84. I was involved in many, many clubs and was the president of Montana State University's Mortar Board my senior year. However, I DID NOT TAKE O-CHEM OR BIOCHEMISTRY...Is this an absolute must to be considered as a candidate? I took chemistry 1&2, physics 1&2, stats 1&2, survey of calculus, and anatomy 1&2. My upper division classes included neurophysiology, genetics, advanced anatomy (dissection of the extremities), biomechanics, and kinesiology. I also got a 3.45 in physical therapy school, which was definitely a rigorous course load.

I know the MCAT will probably have a lot of O-Chem and Biochemistry and I am prepared to do a lot of studying on my own and hopefully take it in the spring.

I would really like to apply to the University of Washington WWAMI program and they technically don't require O-Chem as far as I can tell....I just don't want to go through the whole process of studying and taking the MCAT and spending a lot of time and money on my application just to be weeded out immediately.

Sorry that was so long. Can anyone help me figure out what I should do or if I'm crazy?!

PS - I am interested in pursuing a PM&R or family medicine residency after med school at this point.

Not really a good reason to pursue medicine.

 

[Windpt21]

I also am a PT (DPT) and decided to go back to med school. I'm in my 5th year of practice. I also did not take o chem or biochem during undergrad. I took orgo 1 and studied/sat for the MCAT earlier this spring. Ideally, one would have at least orgo 1 and biochem done before the MCAT, but I made it alright. It definitely is a big commitment after already completing one fairly rigorous graduate program (and the cost of it). If you have any specific questions, pm me.

Note: I have applied this cycle, have not been accepted yet, so no med school experience.

All you PT’s with student loan debt, what are your plans during med school? How do you plan on ever getting ahead of your loans?

Student loan dept from my DPT program is a big hestitation to going back to school.

 

[001002154]

All you PT’s with student loan debt, what are your plans during med school? How do you plan on ever getting ahead of your loans?

Student loan dept from my DPT program is a big hestitation to going back to school.

I had no undergraduate debt by way of scholarships. My wife worked while I was in PT school, so I came out with pretty minimal loans, about $45k. We payed that off in a couple years, so I've got a clean slate now.

 

[Windpt21]

Any P.T's or non-trads have concerns that our pre-reqs were completed in undergrad, nearly 10 years ago? Will that be a negative on our med school apps?

Also what MCAT materials did you use to prepare for the test?

 

[001002154]

Any P.T's or non-trads have concerns that our pre-reqs were completed in undergrad, nearly 10 years ago? Will that be a negative on our med school apps?

Also what MCAT materials did you use to prepare for the test?

Just my experience, but no, the time between undergrad and now was not brought up in my interview.

I studied the princeton review book, very little kaplan, and lots of khan academy videos.

Like I said, just my experience. Different schools may look at it differently, but my interviewers appreciated that I've had real life experience, especially in healthcare.

 

[Windpt21]

Just my experience, but no, the time between undergrad and now was not brought up in my interview.

I studied the princeton review book, very little kaplan, and lots of khan academy videos.

Like I said, just my experience. Different schools may look at it differently, but my interviewers appreciated that I've had real life experience, especially in healthcare.

Who did you use for LOR's? My advisor in undergrad passed away but I have another prof I can reach out too, did you use any PT school professors for LOR? I feel kinda weird reaching out to them for a letter when I'm leaving PT and going MD?

 

[001002154]

Who did you use for LOR's? My advisor in undergrad passed away but I have another prof I can reach out too, did you use any PT school professors for LOR? I feel kinda weird reaching out to them for a letter when I'm leaving PT and going MD?

I used 3 PT professors (one of which was the Dean on my PT school) and a doc that I shadowed. It was a little weird asking them, but they were all very supportive. I had good relationships with all of them. I wasn't sure how good the LORs would be since I've been out for over 4 years, but apparently they were good enough.

 

[Bruster]

Who did you use for LOR's? My advisor in undergrad passed away but I have another prof I can reach out too, did you use any PT school professors for LOR? I feel kinda weird reaching out to them for a letter when I'm leaving PT and going MD?

I also used 3 PT professors, with 3 very different focuses. They were all very supportive and happy to provide letters.

 

[esob]

My two cents fwiw, but you really need ochem/biochem to be competitive. Ochem is also probably the number one GPA killer (or at least tied with physics) so it becomes harder to evaluate your application against your peers without it. Also, from my shadowing experiences, Ochem/biochem knowledge is a daily skill for some specialties, so you are selling yourself short by not getting the experience beforehand. TLDR; Ochem is awesome, just take it

 

[001002154]

My two cents fwiw, but you really need ochem/biochem to be competitive. Ochem is also probably the number one GPA killer (or at least tied with physics) so it becomes harder to evaluate your application against your peers without it. Also, from my shadowing experiences, Ochem/biochem knowledge is a daily skill for some specialties, so you are selling yourself short by not getting the experience beforehand. TLDR; Ochem is awesome, just take it

Agreed. There is a fair amount of Ochem on the MCAT and a ton of biochem. Again, my not taking biochem was definitely not ideal, just the way it worked out.