England - Game Thread

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Keeping in mind that these lists don't account for any context or timing of votes, basic things I'm taking away are:

- Samac, Genny, and Alissa currently have terrible voting records. However, if Finn is a wolf their VCA looks significantly better.
- If Finn is a wolf then Dubz, MsP, and Sporty will have the worst records
- Additionally, if Finn is a wolf then it means every living wolf has bussed at some point

Other things I'm also considering:
A Finn flip would provide some strong info, and possibly a lot of it.

Alley has been gunning for Finn for basically the whole game and her VCA only improves if Finn flips wolf, yet today she's voting for me. Finn was leading the vote 4-2 (with Cyndia being the 4th vote) when Alley dropped a vote on me to make it 4-3. I then voted to make it 5-3 and shortly after Cyndia switched her vote to tie it up again. Strong sketch points for both of them if Finn flips wolf.

I want to look more into the possibility of Dubz/Sporty/Samac pack, though I'm very hesitant about this for fairly solid reasons AM would hate.

I have no idea what Cray is doing unless she's 3P. @Lawpy , did you lend her your dartboard?
 
Here’s my real pitch:
For one, I spend way too much time on WW. Winning as a neutral on my vacation was one of the highlights of my vacation, so at least you know I’m dedicated.
But my biggest positive, I’m a mediocre player at this game. The Prime Minister could be a huge target for the wolves. If you lose me? No big deal. I’m not that good anyway. You lose shorty? Lose a great mind that does incredible ISO’s and solved Bioshock.
MsP? She had an incredible POE last game.
SAR has much more knowledge than I.
I don’t know doc at all so I can’t comment there.
Thus giving the mediocre player the role of PM and putting a target on my back instead of anyone who is truly useful to village is probably the best bet.
thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
Attempt at pocketing everyone? Feels like samac is in cahoots with Dubz as well. Bad voting record despite "being the center" of everything knowledge wise with PMs. I like her argument that losing her wouldn't be that bad.
 
There comes a point where I feel like pulling a LIS seance (what I'm going to call this) starts to seem wolfy. Wolves have a lot more work to do than villagers (Bioshock night actions felt like the second shift everyone talks about, you finish a day of "villager" work and come home to wolf night chores like NK etc) and at some point it's just another dead villager.
 
I don't know that I'm wolf reading you over this. Just needed get my thoughts out kicking around if I can reason it as AI in any way.
 
Since I barely read the thread yesterday I decided to go back and reread and pull out some stuff I found




This intro pinged me, like wanting to make yourself seem like you're around and contributing, but also giving a IRL excuse to actually not offer up anything

the irl stuff does sound really cool tho alley



Looking back this weirds me out. Pushing yourself and then you weren't electable anyways. I guess all the royals might have been on your vote, but I think it's more likely that you knew you weren't able to be elected



I know you commented on Vis tinfoil today, but thoughts on TME today?



Still weird you said this and then pushed for a DocE vote



I personally don't mind mechanics talk as long as it doesn't encroach into fishing territory. I think it's important in game-solving for some people.

(In before collective cringe from both AM and shorty)



This made me chuckle because you recently did something similar in the HP speed game and now you're calling other people for it.



Why did you end up switching to MsP?
This point from dina on alley is good
 
Well like I just posted, I really don't think shorty/DocE is w/w 🤣
Cray seems to be herself, but I read her wrong last time so I'm pretty cautious of her, I also didn't like her flipping onto the DocE vote yesterday after saying that his posts pinged her. getting silenced in the middle of the day is also a bit odd.
People definitely bought their tinfoil in bulk before this game, and while TME and Vissy's ideas are interesting, I just cant decide if they are actually helpful at the moment with what little information we have
Noting this post
 
Ah but my paranoia says what if it's been staged
The more I read Dubz posts, the more it feels like she's doing as much or more to stir up sus around players we now know are village and less around actual wolves. Usually she's modest about how her wolf hunting is going when it isn't stellar, but earlier me she was making it sound like more than what Stagg's analysis supports.

I am also mindful that in Bioshock especially towards the end I was having to heavily rely on stirring up sus around villagers with bad voting records to get more misyeets. So eye on Stagg.
 
This kind of thought process annoys me tbh. If someone doesn't have reads, pushing them about it isn't going to make them appear. And if it does then I'm actually more concerned they're a wolf because it's a heck of a lot easier to fake reads as a wolf than as a villager.

Or maybe I'm just going to forever be salty about the time I got voted out (Immunology game, I think?) because I refused to make up reads after repeatedly being asked for them.
Ok, now that we've gone from almost 30 people to a manageable 15 in 90 pages, could we get some reads from you now? Maybe you did earlier and I missed it. Just say so if I have.
 
I like it when people are posting reads, because the wolves sometimes mess up and forget a fellow wolf, come up with lists that make no sense, etc.

But just because someone doesn’t have a reads list doesn’t make them instantly wolfy. I definitely have a harder time reading people as a villager (duh, as a wolf you just have to look out for PRs), and then it’s harder for me to make reads lists.

I loved making fake reads last game when I was a wolf. All I had to do was follow who the sketchy people seemed to be, and then make sure I sprinkled in some sus of my fellow wolves. Now it’s so hard actually deciding how I’m reading people, because everyone seems to be very village-like right now.
Updated reads please alley.
 
I won't apologize for liberally sprinkling sus on players. Seems like when some people get village read or don't have sus specifically in their direction they quiet down. And we need discussion.
 
I feel like when we're both village we don't actually usually have that many interactions. Now it feels like she's playing with her food.
 
I’m making note that I’m really not a fan of the Cray-DocE interactions. I’ve never played with DocE before, but him basically putting words in Cray’s mouth and them being so buddy-buddy is giving me some bad vibes. I think Cray is too good of a wolf to be that obvious, but I also REALLY don’t like DocE’s interactions with Shorty either.

##### yeet DocE #####
This felt like shaky reasoning then and now.
 
Honestly, not a fan. I don’t want to go as far as AM and claim that Cray is sheeping DocE, but I was hoping she had an original reason for sussing Shorty instead of just agreeing with DocE. But she’s also post-restricted so I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt and hoping that she can clarify her reasoning for her vote tomorrow
I've gotten pocketed HARD by noob wolves this game....wondering here too. I'm alleys wolf mother so I might be reading too much into it as I did with Zenge.
 
@sunshinefl , before the runoff election, when you and genny were talking about her switching her vote to MsP and hoping to get more people on that vote - I'm just wondering why you swapped your vote to DocE after that interaction. It seemed like you and genny both agreed on MsP, and she switched, but then you changed your vote, noted the opposite ninjaing, but didn't change it back. There were only 2 minutes left before voting closed, so maybe you just missed that, but I'm curious why you changed your vote given the conversation you guys were having.
This looks good for shortymayo tho honestly
 
Yeahhh that's fair, though it was also the most recent and prominent in my mind so wanted to comment on it first. As I said, if it continues to be monopolizing conversation then it's detrimental to the village even if it's a potentially v/v interaction. But for now, I'm not interested in voting there.



I didn't realize she always goes after you, I think this is my second game with her (the last of which was bioshock). So that makes me feel a little better about cray if she always does this.
Cyndia tho do you recall the old old days we played WW together? Never wolfed before tho.
 
I was actually really liking her posts so far this game. I feel like she really struggled when wolfing to post authentic sounding village commentary and put a lot of effort into pulling quotes and reads that didn't say much or contribute much. Very different from what I've seen so far this game. So my gut is pushing her village so far.
Updated reads, @alleycat03 and Cyndia, on one another please.
 
I don't like any of this. I don't know if it's been mentioned in the games TE has played but I don't understand why it would be sketchy for someone not to think of a mechanic that wolves would be much more aware of.
Ah yes the whole thing that pinged me way earlier about Dubz... the way she was shading Meats
 
Kay just reread 20 pages with dead people (except DocE, AM, and dead wolves) on ignore. So tired and SDN is about to cut me off.

I'm going to make a checklist and personally hound each and every one of you for updated reads.
 
Keeping in mind that these lists don't account for any context or timing of votes, basic things I'm taking away are:

- Samac, Genny, and Alissa currently have terrible voting records. However, if Finn is a wolf their VCA looks significantly better.
- If Finn is a wolf then Dubz, MsP, and Sporty will have the worst records
- Additionally, if Finn is a wolf then it means every living wolf has bussed at some point

Other things I'm also considering:
A Finn flip would provide some strong info, and possibly a lot of it.

Alley has been gunning for Finn for basically the whole game and her VCA only improves if Finn flips wolf, yet today she's voting for me. Finn was leading the vote 4-2 (with Cyndia being the 4th vote) when Alley dropped a vote on me to make it 4-3. I then voted to make it 5-3 and shortly after Cyndia switched her vote to tie it up again. Strong sketch points for both of them if Finn flips wolf.

I want to look more into the possibility of Dubz/Sporty/Samac pack, though I'm very hesitant about this for fairly solid reasons AM would hate.

I have no idea what Cray is doing unless she's 3P. @Lawpy , did you lend her your dartboard?
If DubZ and I feel like we’re in cahoots it’s probably because she’s the person I opened a PM with. I can’t say much about VCAs because mine is **** this game. I’ve told her if she is a wolf she’s going to break my heart because I’m so deep in her pocket it’s warm and fuzzy.
Attempt at pocketing everyone? Feels like samac is in cahoots with Dubz as well. Bad voting record despite "being the center" of everything knowledge wise with PMs. I like her argument that losing her wouldn't be that bad.
See above about cahoots.
yeah, my voting record is crap, but mainly because I wasn’t on MKG. Village can have crappy VCAs and I’m not afraid to bus if I see a ship sinking.
I bought what mkg was selling to me and I shouldn’t have. Past that I’ve been on finn for a few days now and I hope she flips wolf because she doesn’t.
Sitting on a salt vote for me for two days doesn't feel right.
It wasn’t 2 days. It took me after I posted it day 0 to realize it didn’t count and wanted you to be a real salt vote.
Samac keeps trying to stir things up. It was pointed out this kind of call out is often wolfy.
I always call out lurkers. Try to get them to be apart of the conversation..... which reminds me...

@Ms Procrastinator where you at and what you doin? I gave you village points on that thing with Bob and since then you’ve checked out. Anything you have to add?
 
There comes a point where I feel like pulling a LIS seance (what I'm going to call this) starts to seem wolfy. Wolves have a lot more work to do than villagers (Bioshock night actions felt like the second shift everyone talks about, you finish a day of "villager" work and come home to wolf night chores like NK etc) and at some point it's just another dead villager.
LIS was on sunny 2 days in a row and was tunneling after her. Is that in his wolf meta?
 
View attachment 334253


Day 4 - The Black Server Death Descends - Vote Tally

Finn (7) - Mayo, samac, alley, cyndia, genny, docE, sunshine
Sunshine (10) - Dubz, barks, dina, LIS, AM, finn, sporty, cray, capri, ms p
Dubz (0) -
Mayo (0) -
Crayola (0) -
Samac (0) -
AM (1) - stagg

SDN (2) - Ms P, alleycat

@sunshinefl you are in the lead
18/18 players voting
vote closed
If finn was to flip wolf I would be very interested in stagg.
The reference to a Christmas Carol was weird, but I feel like he would be smarter than that if he’s wolfing. Unless he’s rusty.
I know he’s known for bussing but what if he didn’t intentionally to say “see no bus!”? He’s the only one not on either wagon.
 
My strongest suspects are gone. LIS, Dina, and Capri would be my next ones up. Looks like I’ll have to self prez onto Finn though. And no one is even making a case against me to respond to. And so far every yeet has gone down despite the person defending themselves. So maybe I just don’t really care and Id rather just enjoy dinner with my husband.
She was real hesitant to vote Finn
 
Ok, now that we've gone from almost 30 people to a manageable 15 in 90 pages, could we get some reads from you now? Maybe you did earlier and I missed it. Just say so if I have.
"Manageable" and "90 pages" do not belong in the same sentence. I've given reads as I've had them.

I have to go work so I'm not digging for quotes right now, but quick thoughts based on what I remember...

I'm extra fatigued. No joke. So when I got my results, yeah I basically just want to throw up my hands and say eff it. I mean 7 or so people were already voting for me the day before so it felt like a lost cause. I don't want to put up a big fight. I don't have the energy for it.

I'm not convinced Stagg would have made a three ghosts comment if he was a wolf. I'm gonna vote there anyways because I think that's where I need to go for self prez but... I'm not convinced.

I was searched for coins and thrown in jail.

Lists of how many wolves people voted for is useless information without actual context. Wolves could be literally anywhere in that spread. I don't know why the implication is being made that villagers vote for wolves more and that voting for more wolves makes a person look better.

Not a fan of MsP ghosting but I still don't think she's a wolf given that I'm not dead and she showed up to confirm that I had PMd her when asked.

Not loving the focus on how my role sounds crappy as I feel like the implication there is that I'm too dumb to try coming up with something that makes more sense. I have never read Jane Eyre so I had no reason to think my role didn't make sense... but guarantee you if *I* was making up a fake claim I'd have come up with something that fit well. Though I'm not into making up fake claims anyways... still remember my noob game when a wolf made up a role that it turned out was actually already in the game.

As to Dina saying I could have just not answered Cray's question that I wished she wouldn't have asked... oh please, because ignoring direct questions goes over so well?

That's all I remember right now. I'll be home this afternoon/evening. Might check in during lunch if I get the chance but today is a surgery day so idk.

Vote stagg
 
The more I read Dubz posts, the more it feels like she's doing as much or more to stir up sus around players we now know are village and less around actual wolves. Usually she's modest about how her wolf hunting is going when it isn't stellar, but earlier me she was making it sound like more than what Stagg's analysis supports.

I am also mindful that in Bioshock especially towards the end I was having to heavily rely on stirring up sus around villagers with bad voting records to get more misyeets. So eye on Stagg.
Oh my god cray. You literally pushed zenge, and AM, have continued to push me (go figure, also a villager), tip toed around mkg until the very last second, AND SHOT TWO VILLAGERS.

Meanwhile you are ignoring that I started the sunshine vote the day after another wolf died, and even though I got cold feet and didn't end up on the vote I helped push the logic that got mkg voted off for two days. You talk so much about what you would or wouldn't do as a wolf, completely ignoring the way that I play as a wolf, which I know you are familiar with.

This is just getting annoying. I don't know why you're so desperate to try to push this narrative, but you can stop now. You know it's not going to go anywhere. For once this game go hunt an actual wolf.
 
I’m going through Sunny’s posts and first starting with MsP. I’m not as good as DubZ so I’m going to make separate posts based on people.
Ms. P has been pretty active lately and gets a bad rap. If she wants to be more involved I figured encourage her do it. Plus I usually read her pretty well.

Ma’am I have a freakin PM with Alley already, started by Alley. I could have just asked her there. But I wanted to see who would answer first and how.

Explained as above.

So you want the prime minister to be in your group so you can open a PM with them? 🤔

SAR is the hardest person for me to read, by far. So I would be against SAR as PM.

I said at the time that I have yet to misread her AND that having the role when she asked for it may encourage her to participate

This is what I have so far. There are still so many people left it’s overwhelming to follow all the interactions.


Village leans

-Cray- usual sharp tongued / sus everyone self

-AM-usual pushy self, called out weird samac post

-Genny- usual jokey self

-Cyndia-agreeing with posts

-Bob law- seems sincere about not being in PMs, trying to hunt but noob

-Ms P- was reading her village but slightly unsure about the whole bob law PM thing





Neutral

-Shorty-Did seem off but made 1 typical full shorty analysis post

-Samac-weird rojo?, over the top oh no reaction to April

-Sporty- mostly absent but not unusual

-Doc E- was leaning village and no resistance to yeet, tied, but april wagon could have been pushed to save him though

-Finnick- passionate argument for good village play, quiet now





Wolf

-Zenge-Not much besides weird theme posts of nothing, Defending shorty, not as active as normal

-Viscernable- weird last minute unexplained vote on April

-MKG- seems flippant

-Bread- almost completely absent and not making jokes and puns, sheeped samac into April vote

Here’s all of my notes from my depression-induced notepad instead of the spreadsheet


Village leans

-Cray- usual sharp tongued / sus everyone self, vig out of shots

-AM-usual pushy self, called out weird samac post, But SAR and Enigma both NK’ed

-Genny- usual jokey self; last second nail in MKG coffin

-Cyndia-agreeing with posts

-Ms P- was reading her village but slightly unsure about the whole bob law PM thing

-Alley- innocence, sincere in PM

-Stagg- didn’t know SAR was dead, calling things without logic out

-Bark- opposition to sea of Samac devotees





Neutral

-Wildzoo- ??????

-Shorty/Mayo-Did seem off but made 1 typical film shorty analysis post; Mayo has been oddly serious

-Samac-weird rojo?, over the top oh no reaction to April, broke 2 ties to yeet villagers, ?Enigma PM partner/dismissive, keeps telling the wolves secrets about kills on thread

-Sporty- mostly absent but not unusual

-Doc E- was leaning village and no resistance to yeet, tied, but april wagon could have been pushed to save him though

-Finnick- passionate argument for good village play, quiet now, still mostly arguing philosophy at this point

-Capri- seems to just pop in and say something random and not much else (I don’t think I’ve ever played with her before)



Wolf

-Dina- dismissed enigma’s ability as not NK worthy, logic for why I wouldn’t be a wolf but voting me

-LIS- seems to just be tunneling me and not much else, largely absent which may be his normal but I only played 1 day with him in bioshock, and then maybe trying to pocket me when he added the zenge was exaggerating part





Cray/Doc E compatible

Doc E/Shorty incompatible

Telemarketing notes April/AM connection

April/telemarketing probably incompatible

April/Zenge compatible

Stagg/AM incompatible





DEAD:



  1. April yeet day 1
  2. VMH night kill 1
  3. Enigma night kill 1
  4. SAR night kill 1
  5. Viscernable yeet day 2
  6. Zenge mid day 3 vig kill
  7. MKG yeet day 3
  8. Bread night kill 3
  9. Bob night kill 3
  10. Alissa mid day 4 vig kill
Literally the only mentions of her were when voting for PM, which she did without hesitation and in her reads list. They haven’t had a direct interaction.
She didn’t change or add anything to her read whatsoever. Basically empty.
 
So what in the actual frak am I getting so much shyte for? Because I shot a beloved villager that sounded like a scummy lawyer? Village vigs get shyte wrong all the time, get over it!

Gotta say, feeling pretty good about Barks and Dina based on this. I'm also willing to set aside LIS and Capri for now.

Seriously side eyeing Dubz, Mayo, Finn, and the rest below the line.
Your votes feel like busses to me :shrug: it's not like you had any incompatible interactions with either of them before they flipped, or really even pushed them, you just ended up on those votes after everyone else did the work. A list of how many wolves someone has voted for means almost nothing to me beyond people who have had well-timed votes on wolves every day and actually been working to get them voted out.
 
Finn’s turn
Besides those, I have limited reads because it’s early and there’s 62729 million people.

Visc, Finnick, cray, and Enigma are village leans for me.

zenge is wolf lean as I said with my vote.

I felt his arguments about good village play with AM were sincere, even though I agreed with 1 main point and not the other. So I feel I’m probably not just being falsely persuaded to village lean based on general WW philosophy alone.

I don’t think someone would argue passionately for good villager play while not being a villager.

What? I don’t have a power role and you seem to be trying to tell me to one up Finn’s Rez ability claim.

Yeet Finn

self prez
of note with the interactions with MKG it looks like she doesn’t like a bus. She didn’t vote for Finn until 8:54 of note and she said she just did it for self preservation.
she put her as village early without much reason to do so, got called out on it, and moved her to neutral in her reads list.

I’m headed to work now but if I get a minute next up is stagg. If someone else wants to take over by all means you’re welcome to lol
 
Dear lord, 2 am brain hit hard.

Unexecute Finn or Alissa or whoever my vote is currently on
Execute *Alley*


I swear that someday I’ll keep them straight.
Well alissa is dead...not sure how you mix up finn and alley though
 
Speaking of himbo clears, should we clear Stagg for not even knowing SAR was dead?

...and back to ACLS class

Well, I try not to have so many ??? So I resolved him into village read because I believed it. Also since then, I have taken note of when he does comment he seems to shine light where someone’s logic doesn’t make sense.

but my reads are always fluid and not locked in, so it’s not like he’s village forever. I can and do reconsider everyone as new information comes in.

Here’s all of my notes from my depression-induced notepad instead of the spreadsheet


Village leans

-Cray- usual sharp tongued / sus everyone self, vig out of shots

-AM-usual pushy self, called out weird samac post, But SAR and Enigma both NK’ed

-Genny- usual jokey self; last second nail in MKG coffin

-Cyndia-agreeing with posts

-Ms P- was reading her village but slightly unsure about the whole bob law PM thing

-Alley- innocence, sincere in PM

-Stagg- didn’t know SAR was dead, calling things without logic out

-Bark- opposition to sea of Samac devotees





Neutral

-Wildzoo- ??????

-Shorty/Mayo-Did seem off but made 1 typical film shorty analysis post; Mayo has been oddly serious

-Samac-weird rojo?, over the top oh no reaction to April, broke 2 ties to yeet villagers, ?Enigma PM partner/dismissive, keeps telling the wolves secrets about kills on thread

-Sporty- mostly absent but not unusual

-Doc E- was leaning village and no resistance to yeet, tied, but april wagon could have been pushed to save him though

-Finnick- passionate argument for good village play, quiet now, still mostly arguing philosophy at this point

-Capri- seems to just pop in and say something random and not much else (I don’t think I’ve ever played with her before)



Wolf

-Dina- dismissed enigma’s ability as not NK worthy, logic for why I wouldn’t be a wolf but voting me

-LIS- seems to just be tunneling me and not much else, largely absent which may be his normal but I only played 1 day with him in bioshock, and then maybe trying to pocket me when he added the zenge was exaggerating part





Cray/Doc E compatible

Doc E/Shorty incompatible

Telemarketing notes April/AM connection

April/telemarketing probably incompatible

April/Zenge compatible

Stagg/AM incompatible





DEAD:



  1. April yeet day 1
  2. VMH night kill 1
  3. Enigma night kill 1
  4. SAR night kill 1
  5. Viscernable yeet day 2
  6. Zenge mid day 3 vig kill
  7. MKG yeet day 3
  8. Bread night kill 3
  9. Bob night kill 3
  10. Alissa mid day 4 vig kill
Stagg also limited.
cleared him for forgetting SAR was dead and that’s about it.
 
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