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Sometimes their results can come in as the "they didn't do anything", and just because she didn't make the kill didn't mean she wasn't a wolf
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Lurking Beloww: Sea Monsters Sign Ups and Game Thread
Started by katashark
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Whoops, started typing that up on my phone before Bryndi & AM posted a bit more, and I forgot to go back and adjust it.
My only concern with Bryndi's targets is that I was kind of surprised wolves figured out Snowy as soon as they did, and wolf tracker would potentially be helpful with that.
@bryndiana.jones just for kicks, what's your role name?
My only concern with Bryndi's targets is that I was kind of surprised wolves figured out Snowy as soon as they did, and wolf tracker would potentially be helpful with that.
@bryndiana.jones just for kicks, what's your role name?
That should never happen with an unseerable wolf. Do you think Skim could be a wolf?
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I'm the Plesiosaurus
(asking for role name literally just for amusement and to see if it even loosely checks out with the tracker claim -- with KC's flip, I feel pretty solid on there being no pattern to the roles.)
Well I guess it's up the the mod? Anyway, she could be but I'm not getting that vibe as much as I was two days ago
Why did you choose Pippy over genny to track N1?
I have some thoughts about this but I'll let bryndi answer first haha
Because Pippy is very hard for me to read, so I wanted to get that initial paranoia out of the way. And if Genny was a wolf she probably had the thought that she would be looked into N1, so she would have been less likely to actually do any kills that night
Some other random quick thoughts...
@Stagg737 you've voted for almost as many villagers as I have this game, and you were not leading any of those, so I feel like you have no real grounds to say that I am wolfy because I voted for villagers.
When Stagg "rng'd" coffee on D2, SAR & KC both had 2 votes each, I believe, and I'm pretty sure he broke things in Coffee's direction (someone should go back to check that, I'm on my phone)
I feel like he really wants me to be wolfy, and KC also really "wanted" me to be wolfy, and that echoing is bugging me a bit
I haven't re-read as much as I would like, though, and from what I recall, he pushed SAR and KC pretty heavily and that's why I moved him to strong village initially.
Cray, some responses...
And why would you be on your own suspect list in the first place anyways lol
@Stagg737 you've voted for almost as many villagers as I have this game, and you were not leading any of those, so I feel like you have no real grounds to say that I am wolfy because I voted for villagers.
When Stagg "rng'd" coffee on D2, SAR & KC both had 2 votes each, I believe, and I'm pretty sure he broke things in Coffee's direction (someone should go back to check that, I'm on my phone)
I feel like he really wants me to be wolfy, and KC also really "wanted" me to be wolfy, and that echoing is bugging me a bit
I haven't re-read as much as I would like, though, and from what I recall, he pushed SAR and KC pretty heavily and that's why I moved him to strong village initially.
Cray, some responses...
I disagree with that somewhat -- when you are a busy wolf you like to complain about how you are losing, because you do not like to lose.
I kind of like the pairings thing you're doing in this post, because that feels more like you, and is why I unlynched you. However, there's a lot of snarky wishy-washy spaceyness in here, too.
I sympathize with this, but it is also not like you to just give up in end game unless you are annoyed.
Why now?
Why did you take me & AM off the table? Just because people told you not to vote for me, and AM pushed back?
And why would you be on your own suspect list in the first place anyways lol
You didn't feel the need to revisit her at some point?
I thought about it, but others were more pressing for me
Any reason jboo and WZ were never tracked?
Not particularly, thought about tracking WZ last night, but ultimately decided on Skim
You really don't like that flip from Coffee to WZ, do you lol
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Okay, because I remember you mentioning them as your top wolf reads. I mean the non-allie WZ.
I don't mind flips. It's delays that confuse me.
I can go back and pull my reasoning for each when I get home if you want, but I cannot remember off the top of my head specifically this person vs that one.
FWIW I have stagg as heavily village. I revealed to him yesterday, and am still here
Unofficial Day 8 Lynch Tally
Cray (2) - AM, Pippy
Pippy (1) - Stagg
AM () -
bj (1) - Cray
4/6
lynch close in ~8 hours
Cray (2) - AM, Pippy
Pippy (1) - Stagg
AM () -
bj (1) - Cray
4/6
lynch close in ~8 hours
Last edited:
When did you reveal to him? And why him over WZ?
Yesterday morning. He and I have been PMing the whole game and the village feeling I have for him never wavered, so I trusted him a lot more than allie/wz. The former of which was barely here, and the later I did not PM with her enough to build trust at that level.
Do you know his role?
Posts like this are the reason I wish you had been more active this game. I've been missing my vicarious crazy sex life thanks to your absence.
Now for some serious stuff:
Do we really need to go over this AGAIN? I RNG on the first vote unless I feel like I have a really good reason to switch and at the time I didn't feel like I had a good enough reason. If you look back, I actually said I could be persuaded to switch to SAR asked in thread if anyone had a legit reason for me to switch and no one responded. I obviously wish someone had talked me into it, but can't change that now.
I went straight for you this morning because you've been wolfy to me all game. Ask Bryndy, you've been at the top of my list forever (since you led the Genny train) but you've never been the clear #1 choice for me until then. I chose to go after SAR instead of you because you were actually able to cancel night. You also went for both Dolphin and Cray straight off and one of them flipped village and was your PM partner and now you're getting on me because I'm doing the same to you? Really?
I've thought you were wolfy almost the whole game, if you want I can pull all my posts from my PMs with Bryndy about why you're wolfy to me. Yea, I've been tunneling on you a bit. But I've had 3 others tunnels this game and all of them either directly or indirectly led me to a wolf. So again, you were an easy choice for me and are still at the top of my list.
SAR was one of my original 2 choices along with Genny. Then you sounded sketch for pushing the Genny lynch so hard. When she flipped my choices were you or SAR and I straight up told you the reason I went for SAR instead of you then was because you were actually able to follow through on your role claim. If you hadn't cancelled night I would have contingency lynched you then.
If you want I'll pull everything I posted about you in PMs and put it here so you know exactly why I've been seeing you as sketchy. Get ready though, because it will be a freaking long post.
Do we really need to go over this AGAIN? I RNG on the first vote unless I feel like I have a really good reason to switch and at the time I didn't feel like I had a good enough reason. If you look back, I actually said I could be persuaded to switch to SAR asked in thread if anyone had a legit reason for me to switch and no one responded. I obviously wish someone had talked me into it, but can't change that now.
I went straight for you this morning because you've been wolfy to me all game. Ask Bryndy, you've been at the top of my list forever (since you led the Genny train) but you've never been the clear #1 choice for me until then. I chose to go after SAR instead of you because you were actually able to cancel night. You also went for both Dolphin and Cray straight off and one of them flipped village and was your PM partner and now you're getting on me because I'm doing the same to you? Really?
I've thought you were wolfy almost the whole game, if you want I can pull all my posts from my PMs with Bryndy about why you're wolfy to me. Yea, I've been tunneling on you a bit. But I've had 3 others tunnels this game and all of them either directly or indirectly led me to a wolf. So again, you were an easy choice for me and are still at the top of my list.
SAR was one of my original 2 choices along with Genny. Then you sounded sketch for pushing the Genny lynch so hard. When she flipped my choices were you or SAR and I straight up told you the reason I went for SAR instead of you then was because you were actually able to follow through on your role claim. If you hadn't cancelled night I would have contingency lynched you then.
If you want I'll pull everything I posted about you in PMs and put it here so you know exactly why I've been seeing you as sketchy. Get ready though, because it will be a freaking long post.
Nope, we don't need to, because I'm not talking about the RNG part of that vote at ALL. I'm talking about how there were 2 wolves getting heat and you chose to foment a villager lynch instead.
I'm just saying that I think it's a little rich that you're on my case for making the wrong choices.
Welp, be ready to be very wrong lol
And then I will chuckle at the irony of you getting on my case for lynching villagers 😉
By the waaaaaaaaay
It'd be pretty piss-poor wolfing to hard sell a lynch on a village tinkerer mayor.
I am going let out my inner narcissist for a hot second and say:
I am a very good wolf. I just won 2 games in a row as a wolf, and had half of spectator chat convinced I was a village power role.
I am not stupid enough to draw that kind of attention to myself, and am a bit miffed you think I suck that much 😛
@bryndiana.jones Who do you think the wolves are?
Is the bolded a typo? Because I don't understand.
SAR was the other option and I literally said I'd be open to switching off Coffee to her if someone could give me a valid reason to, but no one did. At least I was trying to use some logic instead of just bouncing around and landing on JBoo who you were the deciding vote on and broke the tie between her and SAR. Sorry that I don't see that as "villagey", but to me that's shady af.
Yea, and it's pretty piss-poor village play to lead the lynch on the FM on the first lynch, then basically out her as the tinkerer, and break a tie to lynch another villager when the other person in the tie turned out to be a wolf. So I find it ironic that you called me out for lynching coffee instead of SAR in the first lynch then broke a tie on lynch 3 to save SAR. Do you really not see how ridiculous that sounds?
And yes, you just won two games as a wolf. If you're a wolf again then you'd have to do something different to differentiate from those games. Or maybe you won 2 games in a row as a wolf and decided to see how much ridiculousness you could get away with this game. Idk, but either way you'd be a crappy wolf OR villager to play a similar way you did in the last 2 games since you were a wolf. I'm not even taking these thoughts into account when I'm voting for you, just saying the whole "I'm not playing like a wolf, look at the last two games" is an irrelevant argument to me.
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@PippyPony
Cray seems to be your top wolf pick. What is your list from most wolfy to least wolfy and why? I'm happy to share all my current thoughts since it seems like we're getting to a point where we're completely screwed. Especially if we don't catch a wolf today.
Cray seems to be your top wolf pick. What is your list from most wolfy to least wolfy and why? I'm happy to share all my current thoughts since it seems like we're getting to a point where we're completely screwed. Especially if we don't catch a wolf today.
If we're legit completely screwed after having two back-to-back wolf lynches, that's kind of sad. Generally, late game wolf lynches seem to help even more than early ones one here for whatever reason. Might be a motivation or urgency thing. So, ideally we should have everything narrowed down to a maximum of two candidates imo at this point.
Logic ...you mean RNG? 😉
And whatever, man -- I have been very vocal about being a crappy villager this game. The KC stuff was at least redeeming enough in my head that I don't feel too badly about the way I played at the very beginning and then latter half of this game. Middle part was...not great.
I'm going to enjoy the death of your tunnel, though
Cray
You
Bryndi
Skim
AM
I'm guessing AM, at least, has bryndi in 2nd most wolfy spot and you leaning more village.
In terms of the why...I've given you a ridiculous amount of reasoning for why I have things ranked like this, and am not going to repeat myself while I'm playing on my phone at a beach house. If you need more posts from me to understand my thought process, then you may want to work on your reading comprehension.
I do have it narrowed down to 2 candidates. Pip and Cray. Here's the problem though:
Let's say there's still 2 wolves left. If we don't lynch a wolf today, then that means we're down to 5. If the wolves get a NK, then we're at parity tomorrow which I assume would mean a wolf win. So we could potentially be a Lylo today. If there's only 1 wolf left then we're not in bad shape. I just think having only 3 wolves in a game with 17 players starting sounds low, so I'm not optimistic about the current situation.
The back-to-back lynch was great, but then we lynched a villager and now only have 6 people left. Plus it seems like one of my top 2 choices isn't even really being considered by anyone other than myself, so either I'm way off or we're screwed.
Yes, I mean RNG. I've explained the logic behind it before and I also said that I'm willing to change that vote if someone gives me reason to. That sounds pretty logical to me. Doesn't matter at this point, but I stand by my early play.
If you're village I'll give you the KC lynch, as I didn't see it at first. Idk how you think the early part of the game doesn't make you look super sketchy though. Apparently other people see it, but I just don't.
If you're a wolf like I think you are, then you played a pretty solid game since most people think you're village. If you're village then sorry my tunnel is wrong, but there's too many other things that I just can't get past and I'm happy with my vote.
And @Stagg737 , I'm not even saying my votes look village, like you seem to think I am doing. Where have I ever actually defended myself with that argument? My votes and waffling earlier in the game look awful. I know they look awful.
I'm just saying yours don't look as shiny-perfect-amazeballs as you seem to think they do 😛
I'm just saying yours don't look as shiny-perfect-amazeballs as you seem to think they do 😛
If there are 2 wolves left, then I think they are probably Cray and Bryndi.
Personally, I like you as the other remaining candidate over Bryndi at this point, but everyone else seems to think you're village, and I'm probably inflating your sketch-factor in my head because you're lynching me and that hurts ma feelz (not really).
Actually, I think 4 wolves in 17/18 a game with several double kills is heavily wolf-sided and I'm not sure how we're supposed to win against that. Unless > 50% of the roster is some variant of a village protective/blocking role.
Even if today is lylo, that's why I said yesterday it should be treated like it and two wolf candidates should be decided on. You can't miss with that, right?
Also, you said one of your candidates is Cray. She is being voted for by two other people.
I wish I understood what this process was, really.
Oh -- and given that it seems SAR was a perpetual double kill, and KC was no slouch herself in the role department...I think 3:15 is a perfectly reasonable wolf ratio, even if Cray was a late add wolf.
Edit:
by AM
Edit:
by AM
Cray is probably my my largest wolf suspect atm. I could get into tinfoil hat theories, but I don't think I'm ready to go down that road right now, because it involves doing complete 180's on those I have as village currently.
Who do you think they are?
I looked back and I see the reasoning. Even after me pointing out that I was willing to move off Coffee to a SAR vote and I actually told Bryndy in PM that I would. Here's the PM:
"Yea, right now Genny is my top pick, but it doesn't look like people are willing to switch there. I could also be persuaded to move to SAR if people gave me reason to, but I haven't seen a ton there other than defensiveness in response to Genny. So I'd need some better reasoning for today.
Between Pippy and AM, Pippy is in my neutral-wolfy camp right now. Maybe because she's not getting my RNG vote either. Not willing to move a vote to either of them at this point though.
I'm actually liking my Coffee vote more. Maybe it's because she's not getting my early RNG reasoning but I feel like she's trying to throw shade at me instead of trying to convince me to move my vote. Either way, I'm okay with that RNG for now."
So I was willing to move to Genny or Coffee, but was fine with staying Coffee. Especially after Coffee kept saying she didn't get why I RNG'd when her initial vote was RNG too.
I realize my voting record isn't shiny-perfect-amazeballs. If they were I'd have just lynched SAR D1, but I was trying to vote logically and use actual reasoning to figure out who wolves were instead of just my feelz that SAR seemed off.
Who do you have as village currently?
I'm between you and Cray, but I'm hard-pressed to think there's more than one.
If Bryndi is a wolf and you are village then I need to never trust my gut again, because Bryndi in PMs sounds exactly like village Bryndy, and I say this as someone who PM'd with her in Smash when she was village and then again when she was wolf after being rezzed. I noticed some minor differences and I just don't get a wolfy feel from her.
Really? I thought 25% wolf was pretty standard. That's what I've always played in irl games.
To the bolded, I did have 2 candidates y/day. They were Dolphin and Pip and now only one of them is left. Hence my Pippy vote.
Cray is currently my #2 candidate, but if we're at lylo I'd rather vote for my #1 than my #2 unless it's between my #2 and someone who doesn't seem wolfy to me (like Bryndy). In that case I would switch to Cray, but until that happens I'm happy staying on Pippy.
Oh -- and given that it seems SAR was a perpetual double kill, and KC was no slouch herself in the role department...I think 3:15 is a perfectly reasonable wolf ratio, even if Cray was a late add wolf.
Edit:
Why do we keep thinking this? This is a huge reason you are coming across as sketchballz af to me. KC is the person who first suggested that there were double kills and then you picked it up and have been bringing it up intermittently throughout the game. Our only evidence of this is the first night and that AM has said she was supposedly attacked and thinks it was an attempt to kill her, but how do we know that's true? That's why I asked her what that message said and her response was "why do you want to know?" I wanted to know because I don't really think there were ever "perpetual double kills" and I feel like that whole issue was just trying to see if it could be used as a distraction.
See this is just kind of hilarious to me, because you are literally saying you wanted to lynch genny, but then are freakin out at me for actually putting my money where my mouth was.
And you can emphasize how you wanted to be persuaded all you want...but that's a suuuuuuper easy thing for a wolf to say.
So if you don't want to accept my crap argument about not being so visibly wrong as a wolf, then I don't feel like I need to accept your wishy-washy statements like "I was willing to move my vote to her but no one told me why I should, so I didn't."
Ok well, my feelz are often better than my logic, as demonstrated in this game. Different people are different.
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Are you daft?
2 people died on N1.
Then AM was attacked twice. Which to me sounds like it was KC's role flair, but I asked AM to clarify and she said she was pretty sure someone tried to kill her.
Do you think AM is a wolf? Because if not, then this is a stupid thing for you to get worked up about.
to be fair, I can be a really whiny villager too
not reading the whole thread makes me feel really in the dark not only for wolf-hunting but also defending
also because wolf-hunting is the best defense as a villager. So I just feel screwed all around. My competitive side likes to play hard as a villager too. Evidence A I would say is my typical word count. So I argue whininess is NAI.
I like your thinking about the WZ kill regarding me, it makes sense in a lot of ways (besides the fact I'm not a wolf.) I would point out however, couldn't Stagg and BJ, as relative noobs, also not be as sentimental towards veterans and want to kill off strong players for a wolf win when they each don't have that many under their belt? I've won enough times as a wolf (I only recall losing in the game that shall not be named... and the reason for whininess was not losing, so I sorta hate that implication but I'd rather not have a meltdown about how that game has followed me around as it sticks out in people's minds the WRONG conclusion about the why of my behavior then) that I'm not sure I would have pulled that move with SOV. I did with Kara that one game, and I have no compunctions about killing Cheezit ever, but still. Kara plays more than SOV, so I would argue that as hard as it was to make that kill, and I did anyway, I just don't know that at this point and the point that SOV bit the dust that I would have done that. It's hard to say obvs without having been in that situation. I would argue that BJ and Stagg might have less of a grasp of what it meant for SOV to come out of hiding.
OK, this is getting into WIFOM about my own behavior. Point is, the kill choices could just as easily be Stagg or BJ's influence. Hell, before KC and SAR's death, seeing as I'm not familiar with their wolf behavior, why couldn't they be just as cut throat? Especially if Stagg or BJ were on the team? If you recall Pippy, when you me and LIS and Paws wolfed, you acceded to my wishes to be more cutthroat with kills. So did genny when I wolfed with her (hence the early Kara kill she wasn't thrilled about).
Just saying this sort of NK analysis isn't strong because it's easy to poke holes in the theory. Other players could just have easily leaned towards this kill pattern.
I also don't put any kill pattern past anyone, not even WZ vs MJ, if you guys recall. So night kill pattern means nothing to me regarding clearing Pippy, AM, or Skim for that matter. I am clearing Pippy and AM based on vote pattern (which is my weak point) but it's easy to see they started in on KC and SAR respectively, and while one or the other could represent a bus, I don't know that the context supports that (because I literally just haven't read enough to have that conclusion).
Skim, Stagg, BJ, I can't say. I'm swayed by Pippy's point on Stagg, but again, I'm not sure I'm reading the tea leaves of VCA for myself well at all.
Of the 3 I'm still on BJ, but I can't say I feel good about it from a rational standpoint, I'm going off limited feels. Most concerning is I feel I'm following Stagg's logic on her, based on my feelz of Stagg as villager, which obvs could be wrong, and the more Pippy says, the more I'm questioning doing so. Then again I don't totally trust Pippy so round and round we go.
I feel bad clearing AM and Pippy based on so little and not a total reading of the thread, I feel bad clearing Stagg based on feelz, clearing Skim based on... not really having a reason to think she's wolf? Which isn't the same as having a good reason to think she's a villager. This leaves BJ based on minor feels and mostly Stagg and Pippy's points (although I'm not saying Pippy is coming out strongly against BJ, just sharing what's influencing me. Unless I hallucinated that Pippy has made points on BJ).
Well, in games where wolves have heavier abilities than villagers, their numbers are generally lowered to keep things balanced. I'd argue that if we're at lylo we all have to vote for the same person.
Really? Even after I revealed my role?
Strongest village is Stagg, then you and pip
