Mount Sinai vs. Columbia

[PolarBearMD]

Hi everyone,

I've been very fortunate to be offered a spot in the upcoming class at Mt Sinai, but I am still waiting to hear from Columbia (in a couple months).

I'm curious what you would do if you got into both programs? The quality of life at Sinai is so much better (nice affordable housing, upper east side location, $10,000 cheaper per year, great reputation) than Columbia, but Columbia has a world-renowned reputation and name recognition that Sinai simply doesn't have. And Columbia also has more opportunities than Sinai given its size.

I easily could not get into Columbia, but just not sure if I would go even if I did, so curious to hear your thoughts!

Thanks!

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[Thego2guy]

Revise the poll, add Cornell in the mix since I suspect this will be an extremely popular thread this year.

 

[PolarBearMD]

Haha, I haven't heard from Cornell yet, but sure!

 

[Govols22]

It would be awkward for us to say you should go to Columbia, and then you not get into Columbia...

 

[PolarBearMD]

I guess! But I've just been thinking a lot about whether I would go if I even got in, and I don't know if I would... My gut says no, but I'm trying to get others thoughts on whether that is a terrible decision or not. I easily could not, and then this decision would be easy 😛 But I felt like the interview went really well at Columbia so it's certainly a possibility that I could get in.

 

[Juxxtaposition]

Revise the poll, add Cornell in the mix since I suspect this will be an extremely popular thread this year.

^

 

[bearintraining]

I would probably pick Columbia or Cornell, although I honestly don't know either one of them incredibly well.

 

[mj216]

You should add NYU to the mix as well

 

[piii]

make sure to add NYMC into the mix too. And touro, and NYTCOM. Oh and Albany.

 

[asw98]

I loved Columbia. Definitely a top choice for me. I really liked the feel of Mt. Sinai, but I think Columbia just offers so much more. Also, the Columbia students were by far the coolest and most interesting people I've ever met. I hated NYU and withdrew right after my acceptance to Pritzker. I liked Cornell a lot. I would say Cornell and Mt. Sinai are basically equal and choose the cheaper one. My preference is:
Columbia>Mt. Sinai=Cornell>NYU

 

[Govols22]

I loved Columbia. Definitely a top choice for me. I really liked the feel of Mt. Sinai, but I think Columbia just offers so much more. Also, the Columbia students were by far the coolest and most interesting people I've ever met. I hated NYU and withdrew right after my acceptance to Pritzker. I liked Cornell a lot. I would say Cornell and Mt. Sinai are basically equal and choose the cheaper one. My preference is:
Columbia>Mt. Sinai=Cornell>NYU

What was the reason you hated NYU?

 

[asw98]

A lot of things actually. First of all, I didn't like my other interviewees. They were so cold and awkward. I was literally the only one asking the current students questions at lunch. I also hated their emphasis on their ranking and comparing themselves to other schools. Housing was pretty ****ty, even though my student guides were saying that their apartments were the best of all of the NYC schools. I didn't really like the actual students I met. My traditional interviewer in the MMI spent 5 minutes saying how surprised he was that I am from Upstate New York, which according to him is a cultural and economic wasteland. So yeah.

 

[VintagePigskin]

Columbia>Sinai>>Cornell=NYU

 

[Glazedonutlove]

Columbia>Sinai>>Cornell=NYU

Why Sinai before Cornell and nyu?

 

[WedgeDawg]

Columbia.... but I'm biased

Revisit this once you hear back from all your schools. There is no point in trying to decide on options that don't even exist yet.

Also I would say my quality of life is a 9/10 here

 

[Lisha]

I'm currently considering Mount Sinai vs. Columbia as well...however with a bit of a different spin, so I think I'll hop on this advice bandwagon.

I don't qualify for either as of now due to missing requirements (Calc for Sinai, Orgo II with lab for Columbia), but I've already been accepted into Sinai and still waiting for Columbia (thought the interview went extremely well). I am signed up for Calc and Orgo II at my local community college and have 3 days to decide whether or not to drop the courses. I really love both these schools (like really really love) but I really don't want to take these courses ugh! Pushing me towards not taking the courses, I have already been accepted into other schools I love (Vanderbilt, Pritzker, UCSD), including a couple full ride scholarships. What to doo...?

Also, since I have not yet been notified by Mount Sinai that they've given me any merit money, can I assume that they won't ever? I was notified of acceptance about 3 weeks ago.

 

[Officer Farva]

Cornell=Columbia>NYU>Mount Sinai.
Cornell can't be beat with HSS, Sloan, and Rockefeller.

 

[Greenberg702]

Cornell=Columbia>NYU>Mount Sinai.
Cornell can't be beat with HSS, Sloan, and Rockefeller.

Full disclosure: M2 at Sinai. A lot of people confuse undergraduate medical education with actual clinical training/residency opportunities. Although HSS has top tier ortho and Sloan Kettering has amazing onc at the residency/fellowship level, you don't gain anything from that as a medical student (apart from research, which any student at any NY school can do at these places). As an anecdote, more Mount Sinai med students match into Sloan Kettering rad onc than Cornell students and more Columbia/NYU kids get HSS ortho than Cornell students. Hospital/residency rep doesn't equate to medical school training. I'd personally place more weight on curriculum, culture, attentiveness of the administration so you can excel and be successful in the match.

 

[VintagePigskin]

[Q

 

[Officer Farva]

Cornell does NOT equal Columbia. Nyu is NOT better than Sinai.

Biased much?

Just an opinion, mount Sinai is great but as a hard science type of guy I felt it was too artsy. I plan on transferring into md/phd so Cornell is awesome for tri-I. NYU is fantastic and truly climbing up in the rankings. I felt more at home in that part of Manhattan anyway.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

Full disclosure: M2 at Sinai. A lot of people confuse undergraduate medical education with actual clinical training/residency opportunities. Although HSS has top tier ortho and Sloan Kettering has amazing onc at the residency/fellowship level, you don't gain anything from that as a medical student (apart from research, which any student at any NY school can do at these places). As an anecdote, more Mount Sinai med students match into Sloan Kettering rad onc than Cornell students and more Columbia/NYU kids get HSS ortho than Cornell students. Hospital/residency rep doesn't equate to medical school training. I'd personally place more weight on curriculum, culture, attentiveness of the administration so you can excel and be successful in the match.

What you are saying makes 100% sense. I just did want to point out though that NYU, Sinai, and Columbia have anywhere from around 30% to 60% more students than Cornell does, so it shouldn't come as too big of a surprise that more of their students match into those programs.

I would choose Cornell or Sinai. They are closer to the fun locations than Columbia. Sinai is known to be a lot more relaxed than the others. Cornell+Sinai have true subsidized housing (I believe that Columbia only subsidizes a small portion that is equivalent to around the cost of utilities?). They are all great programs!

 

[Greenberg702]

Just an opinion, mount Sinai is great but as a hard science type of guy I felt it was too artsy. I plan on transferring into md/phd so Cornell is awesome for tri-I. NYU is fantastic and truly climbing up in the rankings. I felt more at home in that part of Manhattan anyway.

That's fair but NYU's research funding went up 40% in the last year because all of their equipment got flooded by the hurricane and the NIH gave them massive funds to repair everything. They were touting this increase to all of their interviewees (which resulted in a huge US News ranking jump) but as soon as the relief funding runs out they'll drop back to where they were (not that this matters). NYU is a fantastic school (I have a lot of friends who go there) and I think it may be a better fit for some people than any of the other NY schools but to brag about jumping in ranking and being on the rise because of massive storm relief funding is definitely misleading to applicants. The reverse thing happened to Baylor when they lost MD Anderson funding. The quality of the education/match opportunities doesn't change because of a ranking flux due to research money.

I truly believe that you can get anywhere you want from any of the big 4 NY schools. Choosing based on culture and "where you feel at home" like you did is absolutely the right move in my opinion.

 

[TickTockxx]

Full disclosure: M2 at Sinai. A lot of people confuse undergraduate medical education with actual clinical training/residency opportunities. Although HSS has top tier ortho and Sloan Kettering has amazing onc at the residency/fellowship level, you don't gain anything from that as a medical student (apart from research, which any student at any NY school can do at these places). As an anecdote, more Mount Sinai med students match into Sloan Kettering rad onc than Cornell students and more Columbia/NYU kids get HSS ortho than Cornell students. Hospital/residency rep doesn't equate to medical school training. I'd personally place more weight on curriculum, culture, attentiveness of the administration so you can excel and be successful in the match.

I disagree. Having spoken to many M4s, I have heard that the reputation/rep of the hospital is more important. They all emphasize how meaningless the first two years are (true, find a place that complements your learning style, is pass/fail, prepares for boards, etc... but don't make a decision based solely on that) and how the third and fourth year are the most important in residency placement. When you apply to programs, they aren't going to say "how is the medical school", they will think "how quality are the hospital and the doctors who trained her clinically." For that reason, I think it totally makes more sense to place more weight on the hospital and clinical training you will ultimately receive. But then again... just my two cents as an applicant. Maybe you're better off listening to the current student 😉

 

[Officer Farva]

Tbh, picking one over the other doesn't matter because Manhattan is awesome. I couldn't imagine not living in NYC/Chicago/LA/Boston etc.

 

[justadream]

I disagree. Having spoken to many M4s, I have heard that the reputation/rep of the hospital is more important. They all emphasize how meaningless the first two years are (true, find a place that complements your learning style and is pass/fail, etc... but don't make a decision based solely on that) and how the third and fourth year are the most important in residency placement. When you apply to programs, they aren't going to say "how is the medical school", they will think "how quality is the hospital and the doctors who trained her clinically." For that reason, I think it totally makes more sense to place more weight on the hospital and clinical training you will ultimately receive. But then again... just my two cents as an applicant. Maybe you're better off listening to the current student 😉

I can see this being true to some extent but I think the school reputation still matters more.

For example, Mayo clinic has one of the top (#2) hospitals and yet it is not considered (by residency director assessment) to be on par with Harvard/Hopkins/Stanford/UCSF/Penn or even Yale/Columbia/Duke/WashU.

 

[Greenberg702]

I disagree. Having spoken to many M4s, I have heard that the reputation/rep of the hospital is more important. They all emphasize how meaningless the first two years are (true, find a place that complements your learning style, is pass/fail, prepares for boards, etc... but don't make a decision based solely on that) and how the third and fourth year are the most important in residency placement. When you apply to programs, they aren't going to say "how is the medical school", they will think "how quality are the hospital and the doctors who trained her clinically." For that reason, I think it totally makes more sense to place more weight on the hospital and clinical training you will ultimately receive. But then again... just my two cents as an applicant. Maybe you're better off listening to the current student 😉

But think about what you just said. A full TWO years out of the three that you have under your belt before residency applications are spent hitting the books (no clinical training here). Your third year of medical school consists of rotations in a bunch of random specialties, the vast majority of which aren't competitive. Not only that, but you're only permitted to do very minor procedures (read SDN on how everyone complains that third year is glorified shadowing), and spend the vast majority of your time doing scut and studying for shelf exams (again, nobody really trains you, particularly not in any competitive specialties). If you're a Cornell student and want to do radiation oncology, nobody is training you at MSK. You spend third year just like everyone else doing psych/peds/IM/etc. What is important are letters from big names/research and where you do your rotations. I would argue that the school environment/intangibles are most important to your success, because it will directly influence your productivity/happiness and thus Step 1 score, Clerkship grades, AOA and the stuff that's going to allow you to match. Obviously name plays a role to some extent, but we're not debating #5 vs. #60 here. When they look at residency applicants, they definitely look at "how is the medical school". Look at Yale. Their hospital isn't known for being elite in most specialties (derm is an exception), but they have a killer curriculum that allows for maximum flexibility and their students crush the match (compared to, for example Mayo, which has a much higher ranked hospital but a much lower ranked medical school). Not to say that Mayo students don't do well in the match, just trying to make a point that your medical school and not hospital name is what's most important. Cleveland Clinic is ranked higher than Penn, but most people would agree that as a medical school, Penn would easily hold it's own.

 

[RudyRude]

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[peeplechase]

So since these schools have released a bulk of their decisions, what are some of the little things that we should take into consideration? All of these schools (Sinai, Columbia, Cornell and nyu) seem to have fantastic resources and are very similar in many regards.

 

[anbuitachi]

The posts in this thread is funny. Go where you fit well when you are considering schools of similar tier. And yes all 4 are in the same tier. The point of med school is to prepare for residency, and get into residency. Every residency director in the country has heard of Columbia, sinai, cornell, or NYU. You aren't going to get an advantage just cause you went to Columbia over Sinai... If you look at the stats, the quality of the students are pretty much the same.. (gpa/mcat), Match list is similar in competitiveness.

 

[NYCpremed212]

Columbia hands down...

 

[atp6nd5]

Go to Cornell or Columbia so I can have your Sinai spot plz thx

 

[buonassezia]

So since these schools have released a bulk of their decisions, what are some of the little things that we should take into consideration? All of these schools (Sinai, Columbia, Cornell and nyu) seem to have fantastic resources and are very similar in many regards.

M4 here. Yes, reputation matters a bit, but all are excellent, with Columbia getting a slight edge in the reputation department. There are a lot of things that have to go right, though, for you to get any benefit from this reputation difference. IF you are a great student and near top of the class at Columbia, you may benefit from this slight reputation edge. If you are middle-of-the-road at Columbia, it is probably worse than being good elsewhere. So, take what you will from the reputation hair-splitting. A lot rides on you and your performance.

How well you thrive during medical school counts for a lot. Thriving means not only doing well in the pre-clinical years on tests, but also outside the classroom in research, activities, and, importantly, in the murky social waters of the clinical years. Third year is non-objective, touchy-feely, exhausting, and a giant social game. The people surrounding you, the classmates competing with you (whether amicable or adversarial), and your resilience during this time count more than you can imagine. I know you have never picked a school or environment based on these parameters before, but believe me, it is a new dimension you should consider now.

Find the best environment in which you will thrive. For some, it is a fierce environment to motivate themselves by intense competition and comparison; for others, it is an environment replete with inexhaustible niche research resources; for others it is a supportive and warm network of colleagues and teachers. Go wherever you will excel the most, because ultimately this will matter more than the name of the school amongst this great bunch of choices. If you don't have a preference between the different training environments, and know you would excel beyond measure at any of them (not like you could really know that now, though; your future classmates are not buffoons so banking on whooping everyone else's a** before you've gotten there is a little unrealistic), then pick the slightly better name.