Mountains - Game Thread

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I get that folks are shy of dropping the hammer on someone, but it's awfully hard figuring things out when no one's committing to votes :/
 
Truenamer said:
I am a good and noble creature :cat:

Hey, shorty feels pretty good to you right now, right? I have a tiny bit of residual concern from her starting the wagon on Please, but I feel like her misgivings and movement off of the wagon were pretty natural for a villager, and all her posts today have felt solidly pro-village and helpful.
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Yes shorty feels village
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Is it crazy to tinfoil AM might've intentionally put zenge and shorty on opposite affiliations? I'm certainly not going to base votes off this idea but I wonder.
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I don't see AM doing that for lulz. She's sorta into the purity of the game. I don't even know if she would honor requests for a certain Aff like in cases where someone has a good reason to maybe not want to rand one or the other, I could see her telling that person to wait for the next game before doing that. I don't know and I can't speak for her. But in general I think mod meta is less useful when dealing with AM as a mod.
 
genny said:
Wait explain cray to me
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This feeling:
Viscernable said:
This post coming from cray kinda weirds me out. It seems like a kneejerk reaction of “gotta look like I’m sprinkling sus everywhere”. Wouldn’t village cray be logicking through her suspicions and see no reason for a wolf to be fishing in an open setup mountainous game?
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Viscernable said:
But I keep going back and forth on how I feel about Cray. Initially felt good because she seemed more relaxed than wolfCray, then felt like she was not the paranoid village Cray I know, then found some more posts that felt more village Cray (the balance of genuine-sounding paranoia, thinking-out-loud, and humour, quoted below) but still feel like overall there’s a LOT of posts that don’t feel distinctly wolfy but just don’t give the thoughtful, paranoid villageCray vibe
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Truenamer said:
Post sent before I could add comments, awesome -_-

Main thoughts:
1. Sunshine jumping on Paws relatively last minute only to then NK her feels... not terribly likely? But WIFOM
2. The position of Vis and Barks on Pleasey makes me feel like they should be the centers of attention at the moment.
3. I agree with shorty that there were likely wolves on 'safe' votes like Zenge; they may have even been a part of the counter-wagons on PSV/Barks, depending on their affiliation.
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was Paws sussing sunny?

Because I will tell you there are two reasons why someone under a lot of sus and possible to misyeet going by gamestate, gets killed by wolves. One we discussed, was if a PR is suspected. Which I don't know if applies to this game. The other reason, is if the wolves feel that person's on thread contributions are likely to hurt one or members of the pack. Now, there are two arguments against this thought. "But if the wolves kill a sketchy player because of their reads hittting too close to home, won't that just increase the scrutiny on that player's reads and put more sus on the wolf being sussed correctly by that player?" and I already forgot the other argument. Been up early with the bebe. But no, wolves will still often NK the player they feel they need silenced rather than waiting for village to misyeet them even when that misyeet feels imminent. Many wolves would rather have to defend against the sus from a dead player, than have to defend directly with the live player able to actively contribute.

I also rarely feel like wolves NK solely to shock village or cause WIFOM discussions. I mean, they don't want to do anything that gets village too riled up and actually talking. I mean, sure, sometimes, wolves can do anything. I'm just speaking in generalities. Point is, don't assume wolves ever do anything too randomly or just to shock (although sometimes they do) and really, just limit your assumptions becausse that's all they can ever be unless you get added to pack chat.
 
supershorty said:
I guess, but in a game with no PRs and on the first night, so having the full roster to choose from, I don't think Dubz would choose to be a dickwolf just for the WIFOM.
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ah yes thank you, so I was right there are no PRs

that does potentially help narrow possible wolf motives in NKs, but as I said I don't want to get too hung up on it

I'm finding it easier to engage with *what* people are saying more than thinking about the why they are saying it

I would love to post the article from mafia wiki (partly so I review) that does a lovely job of discussing sussing out "intent to deceive" in posts as the primary post analysis method for huting wolves
 
Crayola227 said:
was Paws sussing sunny?

Because I will tell you there are two reasons why someone under a lot of sus and possible to misyeet going by gamestate, gets killed by wolves. One we discussed, was if a PR is suspected. Which I don't know if applies to this game. The other reason, is if the wolves feel that person's on thread contributions are likely to hurt one or members of the pack. Now, there are two arguments against this thought. "But if the wolves kill a sketchy player because of their reads hittting too close to home, won't that just increase the scrutiny on that player's reads and put more sus on the wolf being sussed correctly by that player?" and I already forgot the other argument. Been up early with the bebe. But no, wolves will still often NK the player they feel they need silenced rather than waiting for village to misyeet them even when that misyeet feels imminent. Many wolves would rather have to defend against the sus from a dead player, than have to defend directly with the live player able to actively contribute.

I also rarely feel like wolves NK solely to shock village or cause WIFOM discussions. I mean, they don't want to do anything that gets village too riled up and actually talking. I mean, sure, sometimes, wolves can do anything. I'm just speaking in generalities. Point is, don't assume wolves ever do anything too randomly or just to shock (although sometimes they do) and really, just limit your assumptions becausse that's all they can ever be unless you get added to pack chat.
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Feel like someone has already tagged you and clarified this? but yeah, there are no PRs on either side of the table.
 
Truenamer said:
I will say that the lack of PRs really gives the game a different feel. No wondering "is this person's strong gut feeling actually due to hidden information," just pure vibes and vote analysis.

I don't dislike it 🤔
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keep in mind, that actually, you still need to ask this question

because wolf "gut feelings" they talk about on thread, are due to PRECISELY that, hidden information they have

thsi is what you're trying to find in a game like this

agree that lack of village PRs though does make this analysis more pure, in the past we've often had a village vig mistake village PR sketch for wolfy sketch, because you can get that mixed up as PRs can make people seem more sketch

but the wolves are not likely to tip their hand fishing so there is that balance as well
 
Crayola227 said:
I would love to post the article from mafia wiki (partly so I review) that does a lovely job of discussing sussing out "intent to deceive" in posts as the primary post analysis method for huting wolves
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Interesting; I assume this means paying the most attention to reads lists, who people choose to shade/ cast doubt on, if there's a seeming deliberate misinterpretation of someone's statements, stuff like that?
 
Truenamer said:
Feel like someone has already tagged you and clarified this? but yeah, there are no PRs on either side of the table.
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I'm doing PbPa, so I haven't seen that yet.. When I quote and reply, I usually have not seen much beyond that particular post in my reply. Soemetimes I've seen the flip or read some posts from teh current page which i catch when I hit "post reply"
 
Truenamer said:
Interesting; I assume this means paying the most attention to reads lists, who people choose to shade/ cast doubt on, if there's a seeming deliberate misinterpretation of someone's statements, stuff like that?
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EXACTLY Love this. Yes. Post analysis is king.

My weakness, and certainly something to think about as a villager, to take to the next step is figuring out how you can question people about their thoughts or other players in ways that will invite them to reveal more of their thinking or have to lie, and then if you can then detect this. essentially drawing out the deception form the wolves for your analysis.

that is supposed to be the point of interrogating each other. I just sort of reply with nondirected thoughts to posts so I haven't mastered this.
 
I'm really amused that even in an open setup, where the first post specifies not only roles but that the game is mountainous, and the game is called Mountains, that there's still this question of whether it's mountainous.

It's making me feel better about how much I slammed my head into the wall while modding Madagascar :laugh:
 
Crayola227 said:
EXACTLY Love this. Yes. Post analysis is king.

My weakness, and certainly something to think about as a villager, to take to the next step is figuring out how you can question people about their thoughts or other players in ways that will invite them to reveal more of their thinking or have to lie, and then if you can then detect this. essentially drawing out the deception form the wolves for your analysis.

that is supposed to be the point of interrogating each other. I just sort of reply with nondirected thoughts to posts so I haven't mastered this.
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Ah, so this is the goal of the AM/shorty "pound someone into the ground with questions" tactic
 
potentialsheltervet said:
I don't think it reads like white-knighting at all, nor do I think it was overly long. I also highly doubt she knows what white-knighting is or would use it as a tactic unless someone instructed her to, and if that were the case I don't see a goon telling her to white-knight me of all players.
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eh, I don't buy this. White knighting does come natrually to wolves. It's very difficult for someone who has randed wolf not to be aware from second one, that what they say is either going to make them enemies or make them friends amongst the villager.s One could say it's one of the primary dillemmas of wolfing. You know who the wolves really are, so your reads are NECESSARILY LIES AND it is inevitable you have to make enemies of some villagers because you have to vote villagers, nless you're going to bus all your packmates the whole game. Conversely, there will alwys be an instinct not to want to alienate those villagers that might be on your side or the side of your packmates. Basically I would argue that the wolf instinct to tread lightly amongst some villagers some of the time will always make a wolf susceptible to possible white knighting, even if only subconsciously. Hence even noob wolves, maybe especially noob wolves, will white knight even unintnetionally.

It's looking for the sublte signs of how poeple are allying themselvers that will reveal who has a pack nature.
 
Truenamer said:
Ah, so this is the goal of the AM/shorty "pound someone into the ground with questions" tactic
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EXACTLy

and reflect on the fact that while the pressure can be very uncomfortable for a villager, who has really nothing to hide, isn't lying, and doesn't have to really stop to think about how they relay their honest thoughts, how much more difficult this must be for a wolf who has to do all of those things, while regulating their emotions

this is also why doing the interrogation in real time is also so useful, because there is less time for wolves to construct lies narrative or collaborate with their buddies on strategy for who they're going to fake sus or white knight. Making someone lie on the spot is often going to be the best way to get them to make subtle missteps in their lies.
 
Viscernable said:
I’m feeling pretty neutral on everyone. Lots of wavering back and forth.

More village:
True
shorty
PSV
Dubz

Neutral (no real concerns but haven’t seen much of anything to support village either):
barks
speech
genny
dolphin

Slightly lower than above since I feel I can usually get a village lean on village sunny:
sunny

Neutral to wolfy (hard to separate out due to the wavering indecision. It keeps changing whether I have them village side of neutral down to wolf lean and back):
Cray
mayo
Z
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I agree with a lot of this. Why is Barks so high into your neutrals though?

Why is Cray so low?
 
Viscernable said:
Ehhhh I think wanting to defend villagers is a pretty typical wolf instinct even in a first game. Combo of the TMI of knowing someone is innocent making it much easier to defend than attack and the hope that it will win village points to defend a villager.
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well said
 
Zenge142 said:
Viscernable pls. I’m merely saying that we should exercise caution, and evaluate the game state as a whole.

Wolves on the Please wagon? I’d believe it.

Wolves not on the Please wagon at all? I’ve seen it before. As have you.

I’m not saying “IgNoRe tHe PlEaSe wAgOn” I’m just saying let’s be careful and not tunnel vision it.

I have strong suspicion of Barks, who was a Please voter.

I also have questions about both genny and Mayo who voted off wagon.

I won’t dive into genny at the moment because I frequently misread her, but with regards to Mayo, at the risk of delving into our debate last year, he’s essentially used his vote on me to just not provide anything of relevance.

His logic is that voting me is good because it gives me practice to defend, but #1. I’m not defending against a real push for my content like I would actually be in game, I’m defending against a fake push for the sake of defending against a push. And furthermore it’s a push without teeth as it has one vote.

Secondly, last year he voted Dubz, and said he voted me for the same reasoning but Dubz was actually the one going to champs, where I’m merely the back up.

In summary, I feel like Mayo’s used his logic from last year to place a vote without providing an actual, current game related reason, for that vote, and then just quietly faded into the background.

I didn’t want to ignore the Please wagon, but let’s remember there’s more to analyze, and we shouldn’t get tunnel vision.
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like this

kinda like that my reads are so far lining up with Zenge and Shorty

unless of course one or both of them are wolves lol, but that's my paranoia more than any read of them

I've said before, I basically have two kinds of "omg I fear this person might be a wolf" feelings, one is a feeling I have about the people who seem the most village (fear of betrayal, the more I trust, the more I fear) and the other feeling is about people who are actually wolfy. I say nothing aobut the accuracy of these besides the latter is usually proaby better than the former but it's all crapshoot
 
WildZoo said:
Does everyone who has me in their village leans have me there because of the Paws kill? I'm getting twitchy about how much I've seen my name in that range.
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It’s an accumulation. The paws kill is one of many items.
 
WildZoo said:
Does everyone who has me in their village leans have me there because of the Paws kill? I'm getting twitchy about how much I've seen my name in that range.
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That's a factor but you also seem much more Dubzy today.

I think part of my earlier anxiety was me not wanting to repeat the mistake of StardeWW (he says as he votes for Barks).
 
WildZoo said:
Does everyone who has me in their village leans have me there because of the Paws kill? I'm getting twitchy about how much I've seen my name in that range.
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No, not solely. I was leaning you village early on for tone reasons and the Paws kill just boosted that thought. I haven't seen reason to bump you down.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
No, not solely. I was leaning you village early on for tone reasons and the Paws kill just boosted that thought. I haven't seen reason to bump you down.
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Tone?!??!

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Why is zenge your second highest village read? Why is Vis at the very bottom?
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Zenge was my second highest village read in my most recent list, IIRC, so I'm curious why you're asking Dubz about it but didn't seem bothered by my doing it.
 
@supershorty Okay, I did see your most recent reads post but I didn't actually absorb it because I saw zenge had asked me a question in his very next post.
I have several questions about Dubz's reads list so they all started coming to me at once.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Why is Dolphin village? Why is zenge your second highest village read? Why is Vis at the very bottom?
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I don't have any strong logic for you if that what you're looking for. It's a lot of feels at the moment.

I felt dolphin's reaction to me voting for her d1 (recalling a game where we wolfed together and joking about it) seemed like it came from a village mindset. Here and there other posts have just struck me as village!dolphin. The fact that Paws seemed to think she's okay too helps.

Zenge just...feels like village Zenge. I don't know if I can articulate the way I get reads on him.

Vis is something I'm feeling out but need to look back over her posts to confirm so I'll come back to that.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
Do you know you're village, or do you believe you're village?
While we're at it, tell me this: do you believe in life after love?
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Uh, is this some sort of scary foreshadowing that I should be concerned about?
 
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