Nor'east Ski WWeekend (Basics) - Game Thread

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WildZoo said:
It interesting how there have been various trends through time in how we play the game, just like in game design. Each player has to figure out what forms of analysis work best for them though. I'm not often great at articulating why I feel a certain way about something (and if I try too hard I end up tunneling because it's easy for me to see things that aren't there) but seeing player's interactions compiled helps me deduce the relationships that might exist between them. Sometimes I can do VCA and I find looking at how wagons form and degrade to be more enlightening than the tally at the end of the day.

And then lately I've been doing a lot of weird things just to create situations where people might react in interesting ways. I'm not sure I know what I'm doing with that just yet but it's at least entertaining lol
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In a way WW is a lot of bad science....we are looking for ways to find a result with poor information. So we generalize and draw conclusions from insignificant data sets, and then use confirmation bias to prove to ourselves we are right.

“Oh, I caught mr, ww by using xxx” so we lynch people using xxx, but do we really lynch more wolves than dumb luck? Maybe yes, maybe no.

In the end, I think a lot of it comes down to excuses to use our gut.

We need Rojo to come back and do a statistical analysis for us. @thedrjojo
 
I want to express a huge THANK YOU to @DocEspana for stepping in for me. I am honored and humbled.

I also want to apologize for having to step out, and require a sub. Unfortunately, all the tiny things that normally would not be a problem decided to hit all at once--a broken fence, stupid contractors, animals getting in the yard and not wanting to leave, a hubby in pain and being one too, dogs being sick, a dead snake, and a huge deadline at work that got moved up by a month. Throw in kids and grandkids...it was chaos.

This game was awesome, and it was inspiring to see so many of the veteran players play. There were so many approaches on how to play, and it was a great learning experience.
 
For the record, with 10 people left. I listed 4 as the group to include last 2 wolves...Dina WZ DocE and MSU.
2 were wolves. I and wasn’t on the lynch of either of them (although I tried more on Dina)..

And I accused Mel all game long of being off but never stayed voting there either,

So...as usual,,,,I am bad at lynching wolves but I think I am not bad at identifying them...which is kind of useless
 
StartingoverVet said:
In a way WW is a lot of bad science....we are looking for ways to find a result with poor information. So we generalize and draw conclusions from insignificant data sets, and then use confirmation bias to prove to ourselves we are right.

“Oh, I caught mr, ww by using xxx” so we lynch people using xxx, but do we really lynch more wolves than dumb luck? Maybe yes, maybe no.

In the end, I think a lot of it comes down to excuses to use our gut.

We need Rojo to come back and do a statistical analysis for us. @thedrjojo
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:nod: I know for a fact that my reads based on my gut feels are more successful than anything else I ever do. One day I'll accept it and stop spending so much time rereading things lol
 
WildZoo said:
:nod: I know for a fact that my reads based on my gut feels are more successful than anything else I ever do. One day I'll accept it and stop spending so much time rereading things lol
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My problem there is I KNOW I let my bias affect my thinking. I don’t like lynching people I like. I do like lynching people who annoy me, so I distrust my takes. This game was easier because I hardly knew anyone,
 
StartingoverVet said:
In a way WW is a lot of bad science....we are looking for ways to find a result with poor information. So we generalize and draw conclusions from insignificant data sets, and then use confirmation bias to prove to ourselves we are right.

“Oh, I caught mr, ww by using xxx” so we lynch people using xxx, but do we really lynch more wolves than dumb luck? Maybe yes, maybe no.

In the end, I think a lot of it comes down to excuses to use our gut.

We need Rojo to come back and do a statistical analysis for us. @thedrjojo
Click to expand...

Part of the reason why I like WW games is they are a fun application of game theory. We're dealing with a complicated situation of imperfect and incomplete information that goes both ways (yes wolves know who each other are and who the villagers are but they don't know who the PRs are). Not to mention, the underlying rationality assumption used in game theory models collapses as players get swayed by paranoia and make suboptimal plays. Also, psychological and cognitive biases play a major role in influencing strategy (i.e. being familiar with someone's meta and going by gut feelings).

In either case, these games can be modeled through a statistical approach based on what you and @DocEspana have said. But overall, the complexity and variability of these games even at the basic level is what makes these games fun and meaningful.
 
StartingoverVet said:
My problem there is I KNOW I let my bias affect my thinking. I don’t like lynching people I like. I do like lynching people who annoy me, so I distrust my takes. This game was easier because I hardly knew anyone,
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Yeah I obviously have a soft spot for MJ, and it takes a lot for me to really push AM too. That's why anonymous games can be fun, but then again I also lose my lynch armor in them so they historically haven't gone well for me :laugh:
 
mypetmoose said:
How does one learn how to live past like the third day lol?
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I died prior to n4 pretty frequently when I first started playing. I think someone said before (or maybe it was in dead chat), eventually people get used to your playstyle, or you learn how to defend better, or people start feeling bad about you dying early all the time, or some combination. That works for lynching, as far as night kills...I think the only really concrete thing you can do is not let on that you have a PR. Or cultivate a reputation for losing your mind at endgame... lol
 
I've been nk twice and lynched once. Was it me not being as sketchy as last time that made the wolves wanna kill me? Or still super sketchy, but so sketchy the wolves guessed I was hiding something? Orrrr lucky guess lol?
 
mypetmoose said:
How does one learn how to live past like the third day lol?
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You don't have to learn. You and @cubsrule4e have now unlocked the Noob Guilt lynch armor set.

People will say it shouldn't matter/suspect players should be lynched regardless of past games/blah blah, but if you shame them enough, they will feel peer pressured to give you another day or so.

Most of us prevetties are saps.
 
mypetmoose said:
How does one learn how to live past like the third day lol?
Click to expand...
Play once a year and then people.feel badly for automatically lynching you cause of a few "minor incidents" in the past.

Oh yeah, just remember whatever they say about me is wildly exaggerated.
 
Also I am super sorry to anyone I called mean. I have had a very difficult time during this game (4 midterms and 2 quizzes I just went back and looked). That doesn't excuse my actions or anything like that. I should probably not sign up for games in situations like this but I guess I'm a masochist or something lol. Thanks for putting up with me!!
 
Also what I really meant is one of my professors is literally an evil Dr. Trelawney but shhh...
 
PippyPony said:
You don't have to learn. You and @cubsrule4e have now unlocked the Noob Guilt lynch armor set.

People will say it shouldn't matter/suspect players should be lynched regardless of past games/blah blah, but if you shame them enough, they will feel peer pressured to give you another day or so.

Most of us prevetties are saps.
Click to expand...

I will just employ my day 1 minimal talking tactic. Surely that way someone else will garner enough wolf behavior attention
 
mypetmoose said:
I've been nk twice and lynched once. Was it me not being as sketchy as last time that made the wolves wanna kill me? Or still super sketchy, but so sketchy the wolves guessed I was hiding something? Orrrr lucky guess lol?
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You should be happy. I keep living until the end of the game. I will tell you this much, it seems like the first half is much more fun lol

cubsrule4e said:
I will just employ my day 1 minimal talking tactic. Surely that way someone else will garner enough wolf behavior attention
Click to expand...
I was sad about that, genuinely 🙁
 
mypetmoose said:
I've been nk twice and lynched once. Was it me not being as sketchy as last time that made the wolves wanna kill me? Or still super sketchy, but so sketchy the wolves guessed I was hiding something? Orrrr lucky guess lol?
Click to expand...

We honestly didn't know you were a tracker. I think we were planning either you, grebes, or dolphin that night but it was grebes b-day and dolphin had died N1 in the game before.

I don't know if we had a specific reason but we didn't want to kill anyone who was super sus of Mel or Coffee. I think you just have to find that fine line of sketch that wolves don't want to NK you but village is okay with keeping you around
 
PippyPony said:
Although, @StartingoverVet I do think you probably saw a higher rate of manator-references this game as compared to the norm, simply because the last noob game was very recent and this game had a decently high proportion of those newer players (some of whom had taken a 1-2 game break in between).

But I agree about the "be free to make your own mistakes" thing. It's very liberating haha

I also think there's been more of a shift to using big quote walls (and I feel I'm partially responsible for that one -- oops) and player iso's for analysis, which I think has been diluting some of the articulation of analytical thought. I feel that when I first started playing, it was rarer to see a bunch of quotes pulled together like evidence, versus summarizing and persuading. Was just talking to @StayingPositive2017 about this, actually.
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That's interesting because I keep wanting to make summaries instead of doing quotes but then people just say "where did I say that?" Or "I didn't say that" so then I have to go back and find quotes to prove my point anyways

I also just posted a bunch of quotes at the end because I didn't have time to really add commentary lol
 
PippyPony said:

It was a trying day on the slopes. The skiers had eventually decided to part ways after much contention over where to go next. It was the eternal question when it comes to skiing: downhill, or cross-country?

A few of them interested in downhill headed to Stowe, VT, one of the most picturesque towns in New England. Stowe is also famous for being the new home of the Von Trapp family, whose story was dramatized in the movie musical The Sound of Music.

The other half wanted to explore the backcountry of New Hampshire, so they journeyed to Pippy's favorite place to ski in all of New England: Jackson, NH. Jackson is an incredible trail network, and features warming huts with hot cocoa near traditional covered bridges that cross over rivers and streams.

It ended up being a good day for everyone, despite some squabbles and stress. By the end of the day, though, a couple of skiers were just too exhausted to go on, and decided to head home. <---this is the best I can do right now while I am learning about animal sex. Sorry folks lol

You have lynched...

@ziggyandjazzy , Stowe - Vanillager
and
@Dinashadow, Jackson XC Trail Network - Vanilla Wolf
The two remaining skiers looked at each other, gave a high five :highfive:, and hopped on a 2-person chairlift to the top of the mountain, and happily disappeared into the sunset. <-- Sorry, this is also awful haha

Remaining alive for village is:

@WildZoo, Wildcat Mountain - Vanillager and @Crayola227 (formerly @grebes4lyfe ) , Loon Mountain - Vanillager


~*~*~*~* VILLAGE WINS *~*~*~*~
​
_______
​
*Skiers*
2. @WildZoo - Wildcat - Vanillager
8. @Crayola227 - Loon - Vanillager

*Après-Ski*
3. @cubsrule4e - Tenney, Vanillager
5. @bryndiana.jones - Stratton - Vanillager
22. @SnowshoeDog143 - Green Woodlands - Vanillager
10. @genny - Jay Peak - Vanillager
6. @mypetmoose - Bretton Woods - Village Tracker
18. @capri1722 - Sunday River - Vanillager
17. @Barkley13 - Waterville Valley - Village Jailer
9. @muttmanager - Gunstock - Village Assassin
1. @Animal Midwife - Burke - Vanillager
14. @CoffeeQuestionMark - Smugglers' Notch - Slippery Wolf
19. @Mad Jack - Mad River Glen - Vanillager
15. @Melchizedek - Killington - Wolf Assassin
11. @SARdoghandler - Cannon - Vanillager
21. @MSUcvmHOPE - Okemo - Vanillager
16. @dolphin106258 - Sugarloaf - Village Neighbor
23. @DocEspana - Maine Huts and Trails - Vanilla Wolf
20. @SportPonies - Wachusett - Vanillager
12. @StartingoverVet - Sugarbush - Village Neighbor
7. @Skimble - The Balsams - Vanillager
13. @ziggyandjazzy - Stowe - Vanillager
4. @Dinashadow - Jackson NH - Vanilla Wolf

2/23 remaining.

*Ski Patrol*
@PippyPony
@Lawper
@Karabiner13
@johnnaboo
______________

~*~*~*~ GAME OVER ~*~*~*~

Thank you for playing!

Spreadsheet​

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Also it would be just like me to die before the final ski lift lol
 
Dinashadow said:
We honestly didn't know you were a tracker. I think we were planning either you, grebes, or dolphin that night but it was grebes b-day and dolphin had died N1 in the game before.

I don't know if we had a specific reason but we didn't want to kill anyone who was super sus of Mel or Coffee. I think you just have to find that fine line of sketch that wolves don't want to NK you but village is okay with keeping you around
Click to expand...
Okay but has your avatar been that dog in the snow this entire time? Serious question
 
Thanks for the game! I had fun living so long.

Thanks for killing me Dina. I’m afraid I would have tunneled on dubz if I lived. In dead chat I was able to be less paranoid and decided you were the last wolf without even reading any of the thread.
 
Skimble said:
Thanks for the game! I had fun living so long.

Thanks for killing me Dina. I’m afraid I would have tunneled on dubz if I lived. In dead chat I was able to be less paranoid and decided you were the last wolf without even reading any of the thread.
Click to expand...

Hmmm maybe I should've kept you alive then
 
StartingoverVet said:
In a way WW is a lot of bad science....we are looking for ways to find a result with poor information. So we generalize and draw conclusions from insignificant data sets, and then use confirmation bias to prove to ourselves we are right.

“Oh, I caught mr, ww by using xxx” so we lynch people using xxx, but do we really lynch more wolves than dumb luck? Maybe yes, maybe no.

In the end, I think a lot of it comes down to excuses to use our gut.

We need Rojo to come back and do a statistical analysis for us. @thedrjojo
Click to expand...
eLz6jy9.jpg
 
ziggyandjazzy said:
Also I am super sorry to anyone I called mean. I have had a very difficult time during this game (4 midterms and 2 quizzes I just went back and looked). That doesn't excuse my actions or anything like that. I should probably not sign up for games in situations like this but I guess I'm a masochist or something lol. Thanks for putting up with me!!
Click to expand...
I was pretty exceptionally cruel, so I'm sorry.

I still don't understand why you were convinced the wolves should want to off me instead of Skim or SP!!!!!

Don't you comprehend how luxuriously insane, unpredictable, and sketchy I am? It's like I was born to be the ideal wolf distraction!
 
StartingoverVet said:
My curmudgeonly comment: I don’t like the way all the newer generations seem to think that analyzing mechanics, and logic, and figuring out wolf patterns are all lower forms of life not to be used. That is usually 100% of what I do.

We went through a phase where there wasn’t enough of an analysis of what people were saying to find wolves, and now we have gone to the other extreme. That is disappointing to me.

All forms of analysis are viable. One form is not better than others. Lose your biases. Stop believing what some mentor manatee grand step son of a mod told you. Think for your freaking self.

I had an adopted mentor for one game...guess who....doc espana who was my partner by game design in my first ever game, and i argued with him from the start. Listened, but made my own conclusions. People senior to you, including me, know a lot, but are also wrong a lot. If I read one more time “but my manator said” I will freak. THINK FOR YOURSELF.
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I'm pretty lousy at all forms of play except for post analysis.

This is why we need vets like you and LIS to come and play, because that's the best way to learn new methods of analysis that may not come naturally otherwise.
 
Crayola227 said:
I'm pretty lousy at all forms of play except for post analysis.

This is why we need vets like you and LIS to come and play, because that's the best way to learn new methods of analysis that may not come naturally otherwise.
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i also like how he said this but kept trying to get me to agree with his logic when I just wasn't on board :dead:

But I agree with the post in some ways also :angelic:
 
Crayola227 said:
Yes but no matter how many times I do that in a given game, people will become convinced I'm not village anyway.
Click to expand...
I wasn't convinced it was you!! I was just convinced it was EITHER you or Dina, and I was right :happy:
 
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