Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

[gutonc]

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UAB

done

Agreed. BU isn't bad by any means, but UAB is a regional (1/5 of the US) powerhouse, while BU barely ranks 4th in its own city.

 

[adagio]

out of curiosity:

Minnesota - Indy- Cinci- CC- Rush - Emory- Boston U

by reputation (also divided by tiers if applicable)

 

[gutonc]

So I know the programs which will be at the top of my list but I am having difficulty ranking the middle tier. I found none of the programs to stand out from one another. Would like to keep option of competitive fellowship open. Location does not matter.

UAB
Colorado
Emory
UNC
UCSD
Wisconsin

Thanks.

You didn't find them to stick out because these programs are, by and large, equivalent. You won't go wrong by ranking by geography in this group.

My own personal bias (geography+subspecialty+je nai se quois):
Wisco
Colo
UNC
UCSD
UAB
Emory
(But you could reasonably flip that list completely on its head and be just as right for you.)

 

[adagio]

You didn't find them to stick out because these programs are, by and large, equivalent. You won't go wrong by ranking by geography in this group.

My own personal bias (geography+subspecialty+je nai se quois):
Wisco
Colo
UNC
UCSD
UAB
Emory
(But you could reasonably flip that list completely on its head and be just as right for you.)

lol je ne sais quoi you mean

 

[jdh71]

So I know the programs which will be at the top of my list but I am having difficulty ranking the middle tier. I found none of the programs to stand out from one another. Would like to keep option of competitive fellowship open. Location does not matter.

UAB
Colorado
Emory
UNC
UCSD
Wisconsin

Thanks.

This is a tough list to sort out. Emory might have the biggest name, but I've just heard too much crap about them, and hotlanta is a crap hole. UAB excellent clinical training, supee-impressive place, but Birmingham is a crap hole. UNC very well respected, good clinic training, though sits in the shadow of Duke - Chapel Hill is a nice, quaint small southern city . . . maybe too quaint? Wisconsin, well respected program, awesome PD, good fellowship placement, Madison is a super sweet town (collegegirlsgonewild.jpg) - cold in the winter. Colorado, well respected, if not the biggest academic name on that list, denver is a chill town, close to the mountains, awesome outdoor activities, all the pro-sports, airport can get you anywhere, probably direct, since it's denver. UCSD, solid program, great weather, california girls, the beach, lots of activities, traffic like Satan's azhole, learn to speak spanish (buy rosetta stone, I'm serious), best burritos and fish tacos.

How would I personally rank them??

UCSD
Wisconsin
Colorado
UNC
UAB
Emory

 

[gutonc]

out of curiosity:

Minnesota - Indy- Cinci- CC- Rush - Emory- Boston U

by reputation (also divided by tiers if applicable)

You basically have two tiers here.

Programs that are not CCF, BU and Rush
Programs that are CCF, BU and Rush

But they're all solid places and you won't limit yourself matching to any one of those vs the others.

 

[adagio]

You basically have two tiers here.

Programs that are not CCF, BU and Rush
Programs that are CCF, BU and Rush

But they're all solid places and you won't limit yourself matching to any one of those vs the others.

CCF, BU, and Rush being the upper or lower tier?

 

[adagio]

UCSD, solid program, great weather, california girls, the beach, lots of activities, traffic like Satan's azhole, learn to speak spanish (but rosetta stone, I'm serious), best burritos and fish tacos.

They loved me (and I mean loved capitalized) in south-western programs because I spoke spanish fluently. I dont know whether I am exaggerating, but some PDs spent a part of the IV learning how I came to learn the language. It was like a new USMLE score. I was even tested in some programs by the associate PD and a staff (which was surprising!!!)

They were more than exuberant when I said: I learned it because its the second most popular language in the US. lol it was a lie. I loved Jorge Luis Borges and Luis Bunuel. definitely not to be competitive for the match 😀 😀 😀

 

[raj007ml]

Agreed. BU isn't bad by any means, but UAB is a regional (1/5 of the US) powerhouse, while BU barely ranks 4th in its own city.

The thing is UAB does not compete with a lot of other big places (Emory, UTSW, Baylor), while BU stands with the giants. May be because of location, BU grads are able to pursue fellowships in the most prestigious institutions. I think if you were to compare BU to places like UConn or Montefiore in NYC, it should be better.

 

[adagio]

e thing is UAB does not compete with a lot of other big places (Emory, UTSW, Baylor),

What in good Zeus name are you talking about?

 

[gutonc]

CCF, BU, and Rush being the upper or lower tier?

Lower

 

[jdh71]

They loved me (and I mean loved capitalized) in south-western programs because I spoke spanish fluently. I dont know whether I am exaggerating, but some PDs spent a part of the IV learning how I came to learn the language. It was like a new USMLE score. I was even tested in some programs by the associate PD and a staff (which was surprising!!!)

They were more than exuberant when I said: I learned it because its the second most popular language in the US. lol it was a lie. I loved Jorge Luis Borges and Luis Bunuel. definitely not to be competitive for the match 😀 😀 😀

Well, given your point of original origin, I'd be surprised too.

 

[adagio]

Well, given your point of original origin, I'd be surprised too.

hahahaha that was exactly one of the comments by an associate PD there. I think this is why they were dubious and arranged a staff to test me!! I kid you not! half of the interview was in Spanish 😵

 

[adagio]

Which is also a lesson for future applicants:

whatever you mention on the application, make sure that you have a good grasp on. Heck, even if it was an interest in a particular genre in music!!! you might find someone interested (even an expert) ..

So .. dont put Entomology unless you're really into it -_-

 

[raj007ml]

CCF, BU, and Rush being the upper or lower tier?

CCF is not a great program for IM residency. The PD seems good from outside, but he's a pain according to the residents. Also, the work load is huge and for the most part you are following orders from fellows and attendings. Nil autonomy (compare- BU). Teaching is 3rd grade. Nothing close to what you get a good academic center.
Although most grads get into fellowships, the places where they go are middle to low tier.
Even, most of grads from Cleveland Clinic College of Medicine don't prefer CCF for IM training. Case Western is a better program in Cleveland.

If I had a choice between these three, I would go for BU> Rush> CCF

 

[raj007ml]

What in good Zeus name are you talking about?

I mean that UAB, BCM, UTSW, Emory are the only big 4 of south (Not including Duke and UNC), while in North-East- the list is much longer.

 

[adagio]

My intel says that UNC and UAB are way higher than emory. definitely way higher than Baylor.

 

[raj007ml]

I guess then UAB it is... 🙂

 

[adagio]

It would be one of the top matches for an FMG ... handful of FMGs match in such programs

 

[cra]

Could someone please help me rank these places. Old grad...want to go into GI.

BCM, UTMB, GWU, UAMS, Creighton, Louisville, Montefiore/AECOM, Beth Israel/AECOM, Wayne State, University of Arizona

 

[DrVanNostran]

My intel says that UNC and UAB are way higher than emory. definitely way higher than Baylor.

I wouldn't say way higher by any means. If anything, I think all 4 are roughly equal. Emory has taken a beating on these forums as of late. But they did seem to be a solid program, Baylor as well.

I still think Rush is one of the more under-rated programs everywhere. Residents there all seem happy and they have a nice match list.

 

[adagio]

I dont know man. UNC is mentioned with religious zealotry in some circles, so is UAB

 

[DrVanNostran]

Here is my rough draft of places I interviewed at in terms of "Strength"

Mayo
--------------------
UAB=Wisconson=Baylor=OHSU
--------------------
Case=Emory=UVa=OSU
--------------------
UCI=Rush=Cinci=UIC=CCF
-------------------
UC Northshore
Scripps


Here is how I am ranking based on Gut so far:

1. Wisconsin
2. Rush
3. UC Irvine
4. Mayo
5. OHSU
6. Baylor
7. UAB
8. UVa
9. OSU
10. Emory

If UC-Northshore had fellowships attached, they would have been number 1.

 

[DrVanNostran]

I dont know man. UNC is mentioned with religious zealotry in some circles, so is UAB

Emory has had a traditionally very strong name, especially in Cards. In the south, they are very well regarded. Duke trumps all (if u consider them south), then UAB and Emory. Baylor is a pretty damn strong program.

UNC is just like BU imo, a solid program in the shadow of a giant.

 

[adagio]

Duke trumps all

it does de facto!!! cannot argue with you on that.

 

[OptimusKane]

IMO, UNC was regarded as a great place for IM training as the curriculum is heavily tailored to producing excellent generalists. Was pleasantly surprised by this. Their own faculty told me that for competitive fellowships such as Cards and GI, the name would only go so far and I "may" be disappointed if looking for top notch fellowships based on reputation alone. I was impressed by Emory--forward thinking leadership who all trained at Emory and thus were dedicated to making tracks or "disciplines" to tailor the residency experience based on interests. Obviously very strong for cards and several residents match at Emory for cards if that is litmus test of the programs reputation. Totally disagree that ATL is a crap hole, have lived there and people base their opinions on the downtown which is where nobody lives. Neighborhoods such as Virginia Highlands, Inman Park, Midtown and Buckhead are all fantastic places to live and thrive...just a little more insight. Didn't apply to UAB so can't comment in regards to the discussion above. Baylor offers outstanding clinical training but I was very underwhelmed with just about everything else they had to offer besides that, no other of the "intangibles" which make for an attractive place to be outside of rigorous clinical training.

 

[chorean]

Here is my rough draft of places I interviewed at in terms of "Strength"

Mayo
--------------------
UAB=Wisconson=Baylor=OHSU
--------------------
Case=Emory=UVa=OSU
--------------------
UCI=Rush=Cinci=UIC=CCF
-------------------
UC Northshore
Scripps


Here is how I am ranking based on Gut so far:

1. Wisconsin
2. Rush
3. UC Irvine
4. Mayo
5. OHSU
6. Baylor
7. UAB
8. UVa
9. OSU
10. Emory

If UC-Northshore had fellowships attached, they would have been number 1.

WOW..1 ok.. 2/3 really?? your gut is playin mean tricks on you bc it would be a shame if you ended up at one of those.. i would move 2/3 to 11 and 12 and that would be much more reasonable. H/O especially is struggling at both of those places

 

[DrVanNostran]

WOW..1 ok.. 2/3 really?? your gut is playin mean tricks on you bc it would be a shame if you ended up at one of those.. i would move 2/3 to 11 and 12 and that would be much more reasonable. H/O especially is struggling at both of those places

I really liked Rush, plus my family is from Chicago so that is a huge huge bonus. In the past 5 years, they have had great success in matching people into places like Anderson.

As for UCI, this was essentially a compromise. My wife loves southern California and I really liked my interview day and Dr. Rucker. It seems that almost all their grads go to UCI for H/O, but Dr. Rucker mentioned that their grads have had great interviews and I can see why people want to stay at UCI. Rush and UCI are kind of the same program IMO.

I know that both of them aren't as strong a lot of programs on my list. But I think I would be happy at both those places. I might move Mayo to #1, I had an excellent day there, but my wife kinda hated the Rochester lol. But I don't know how I could turn down Mayo if they had ranked me high enough to match.

UAB and Baylor are two places that I really liked as well. I may end up doing a second look at both to make sure that I am not ranking them to low. This is definitely a preliminary list, I know this will change day to day.

 

[jdh71]

WOW..1 ok.. 2/3 really?? your gut is playin mean tricks on you bc it would be a shame if you ended up at one of those.. i would move 2/3 to 11 and 12 and that would be much more reasonable. H/O especially is struggling at both of those places

*facepalm*

You have to rank the way you like the programs. Gut is the best way.

 

[computeUrBrain]

I'm trying to decide between:

Columbia, Yale, Cornell, mount Sinai, u of Chicago, NYU, Einstein, ucla, Pitt, ucla harbor

Thats my preluminary ranking. Ucla is at the end of the above for a reason. I don't want to go there.

Thank you!!!

 

[DrVanNostran]

I'm trying to decide between:

Columbia, Yale, Cornell, mount Sinai, u of Chicago, NYU, Einstein, ucla, Pitt, ucla harbor

Thats my preluminary ranking. Ucla is at the end of the above for a reason. I don't want to go there.

Thank you!!!

I think it should go:
Columbia, Cornell, MSSM, UChicago, Yale, Pitt

 

[adagio]

Columbia, Cornell, MSSM, UChicago, Yale, Pitt

I would say: Columb, Corn, MSSM, UofC, Pitt, Yale

 

[mighty023]

how would you rank/tier these schools? (in no particular order)

Vanderbilt
Yale
Emory
UT Southwestern
UVA
Cornell
Baylor
WashU
Mt. Sinai
UNC
Duke

 

[Bitterman]

1. Cornell
2. Vanderbilt
3. VCU
4. U of Maryland
5. Henry Ford

I can't decide between Cornell and Vandy. If it matters, I'm an IMG. I have a few other programs that I don't think I'll be ranking since I did not like them at all. I know it's risky to only rank 5 but oh well, IMG life, thug life. lol

Please let me know your reasons for ranking them a certain way.

 

[gutonc]

1. Cornell
2. Vanderbilt
3. VCU
4. U of Maryland
5. Henry Ford

I can't decide between Cornell and Vandy. If it matters, I'm an IMG. I have a few other programs that I don't think I'll be ranking since I did not like them at all. I know it's risky to only rank 5 but oh well, IMG life, thug life. lol

Please let me know your reasons for ranking them a certain way.

Cornell = Vandy
UMd
VCU
Henry Ford
6-X: Don't be an idiot...rank a few more.

 

[gutonc]

how would you rank/tier these schools? (in no particular order)

Don't do this. If you want me to spend my time helping you out, give me an idea of how you like the programs.

 

[adagio]

6-X: Don't be an idiot...rank a few more.

what can I say ... Kids these days ... IMG and ranking 5 programs only ... This is candid camera

 

[gold&black2005]

I'm trying to decide between:

Columbia, Yale, Cornell, mount Sinai, u of Chicago, NYU, Einstein, ucla, Pitt, ucla harbor

Thats my preluminary ranking. Ucla is at the end of the above for a reason. I don't want to go there.

Thank you!!!

Two through four could be argued all day...stick with your gut. I like your list as is, wouldn't change it.

 

[Bitterman]

what can I say ... Kids these days ... IMG and ranking 5 programs only ... This is candid camera

Yea, the other programs I have are mostly community programs where the residents were not happy at all. Everyone seemed so depressed. I'll have to think about if I would rather match at those places or go unmatched. It's gonna be tough.

 

[fortitude27]

How would you rank these? Want to do either Nephrology or Endocrinology Fellowship. Location doesn't matter as much but would be great to be a good city.

I am an IMG so these are just my top 5.

1. Mayo
2. Vandy
3. Cleveland Clinic
4. Dartmouth
5. UMass

Thanks 🙂

 

[DdrumbumD]

Interested in cards.... i'm thinking

Bayview, Mayo-AZ, UIC, OSU, Loyola, CCF, Indiana....others

any thoughts on MayoAZ being 2?

 

[adagio]

How would you rank these? Want to do either Nephrology or Endocrinology Fellowship. Location doesn't matter as much but would be great to be a good city.

I am an IMG so these are just my top 5.

1. Mayo
2. Vandy
3. Cleveland Clinic
4. Dartmouth
5. UMass

Thanks 🙂

Vandy
Dartmouth
Mayo
Umass
CCF

my 2 c

 

[obiwan]

how would you rank/tier these schools? (in no particular order)

Vanderbilt
Yale
Emory
UT Southwestern
UVA
Cornell
Baylor
WashU
Mt. Sinai
UNC
Duke

Duke > WashU = UTSW > Vandy = Cornell = UNC = Yale > MSSM = UVA = Baylor (IMO there really isn't significant gaps between these tiers)

 

[ohsekw]

Huge thanks to jdh71 and gutonc... It is really helpful to get some outside perspective.

Here's what I'm thinking now; we'll see if anything changes in the next 3.5 weeks.
1. UCLA
2. UCSF
3. UCSD
4. University of Washington
5. OHSU
6+ EITHER -- 6. Penn, 7. Beth Israel Deaconess, 8. Columbia, 9. Cornell, 10. NYU
-----OR -- 6. Cedars, 7. Harbor, 8. Olive View
-----THEN LAST -- Scripps Greeen, Kaiser Sunset, USC

Of that list the most well rounded pulm/crit programs from the standpoint of pulm/critical care/research/academics would be Penn, UW, and UCSF

(but friends don't let friends go to UW for pulm/crit )

😕 But I gotta ask... What should I know about University of Washington pulm/cc dude? Looked back up this thread, didn't find anything.

 

[jdh71]

😕 But I gotta ask... What should I know about University of Washington pulm/cc dude? Looked back up this thread, didn't find anything.

UW dub has a FANTASTIC pulm/crit program - work with many of the world's experts in, well, just about anything pulm/crit related - but you're just busy, Busy, BUSY. It's not malignant just work your ass off all the time kind of a program. 😀

 

[jdh71]

Could someone please help me rank these places. Old grad...want to go into GI.

BCM, UTMB, GWU, UAMS, Creighton, Louisville, Montefiore/AECOM, Beth Israel/AECOM, Wayne State, University of Arizona

At the top:

BCM
UTMB = Arizona

Look, a GI spot is hard go get. And most GI programs take from within their own institution - yes, the bigger names in the game take the cream from the top from wherever, but mid tier places with GI take internally almost as a rule. So I wouldn't rank as high too many place without in house GI.

UAMS had a unflattering thread in here within the last year or so, I think. I'm not convinced everything is all settled with that program just based on how the interaction went and what was said. Just FYI.

 

[jdh71]

Here is my rough draft of places I interviewed at in terms of "Strength"

Mayo
--------------------
UAB=Wisconson=Baylor=OHSU
--------------------
Case=Emory=UVa=OSU
--------------------
UCI=Rush=Cinci=UIC=CCF
-------------------
UC Northshore
Scripps


Here is how I am ranking based on Gut so far:

1. Wisconsin
2. Rush
3. UC Irvine
4. Mayo
5. OHSU
6. Baylor
7. UAB
8. UVa
9. OSU
10. Emory

If UC-Northshore had fellowships attached, they would have been number 1.

I think this is fine, seriously. Too bad the wife likes Irvine more than Portland . . . bishes LOVE the OC

 

[jdh71]

I'm trying to decide between:

Columbia, Yale, Cornell, mount Sinai, u of Chicago, NYU, Einstein, ucla, Pitt, ucla harbor

Thats my preluminary ranking. Ucla is at the end of the above for a reason. I don't want to go there.

Thank you!!!

You don't like pleasant weather do you?

 

[jdh71]

how would you rank/tier these schools? (in no particular order)

Vanderbilt
Yale
Emory
UT Southwestern
UVA
Cornell
Baylor
WashU
Mt. Sinai
UNC
Duke

Dude.

How you like. Can't go wrong with that list.

 

[jdh71]

1. Cornell
2. Vanderbilt
3. VCU
4. U of Maryland
5. Henry Ford

I can't decide between Cornell and Vandy. If it matters, I'm an IMG. I have a few other programs that I don't think I'll be ranking since I did not like them at all. I know it's risky to only rank 5 but oh well, IMG life, thug life. lol

Please let me know your reasons for ranking them a certain way.

Vandy
Cornell
Maryland
VCU
HF

Why because that's the way I like them, and Vandy kicks huge ass. You need to decide if not ranking is worth not having a job come july. It only gets harder the second (third) time around.