Official 2011-2012 IM "How To Rank" Thread

[jbz24]

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Dude...I meant that I'm not comfortable ranking Monte at 3 and UAMS at 6? Is Monte really better than CCF and UTMB (ignoring the geography)..What say?

Yes it is.

 

[gutonc]

dude...i meant that i'm not comfortable ranking monte at 3 and uams at 6? Is monte really better than ccf and utmb (ignoring the geography)..what say?

>=ccf, >>>>>>>>>>utmb

 

[rv123]

Hello there...could someone please help me with my list (no particular order)
1. GWU
2. University of Connecticut
3. Wayne State
4. University of Arizona
5. University of Louisville
6. William Beaumont
7. University of Buffalo
8. Upstate Medical University - NY
9. Washington Hospital Center

Thanks fellas..

Could some one help me with my list?

 

[bmd85]

I am trying to gather more information about my rank list

I am from UTSW, categorical and thinking of becoming a Hospitalist vs Rheumatologist possibly Immunology (not sure if this will be too competitive). Would like a program that provides for this opportunity without killing me as my experience at UTSW was challenging but I respect the opportunities the school has provided for me.

So far I am ranking based on the information I have now but I am sure I have not heard enough about which programs will have better opportunity

I am thinking of ranking as follows

1) USC - good program, fair amount of work, good location
2) UCIrvine - good program, cush, good location
3) Beth Israel / Albert Einstein - good program, good location but interested in LA
4) UTSW Austin / Seton - decent program, home state, good location
5) St. Louis U - good program, not sold on location
6) Banner good sam phoenix - decent program, not sold on location
7) U of New mexico - good program, not sold on location
8) Methodist Dallas - decent program, home state, would not have to move
9) Queens-Presbyterian/Cornell New York - decent program, good location
10) U of Nevada LV - not sold on program or location
11) UTSW Dallas - Ive been here, ready for new program, good program malignant? I do not think they will rank me
12) UTHSCSA Harlingen - not sold on location but think they would take care of me
13) Sunny Downstate - I've heard they have good matching but the scut work is unbelievable?


So help me with pros and cons of how I am ranking these programs

give me an idea by ranking how malignant these programs are, how prestigious these programs are, and also ranking which programs will allow for a life?

Thanks

bump

 

[newspeak]

hello everyone

help is needed with the following list:

Emory
Mayo
Minnesota
Iowa
Baylor
Loyola
GWU
CCF
Cinci
Case
OSU


Thanks in advance

 

[jdh71]

Could some one help me with my list?

Maybe like . . .

University of Arizona
University of Louisville
University of Connecticut
GWU
Wayne State = University of Buffalo
the rest

 

[jdh71]

bump

Your list and rationale look fine to me.

 

[jdh71]

hello everyone

help is needed with the following list:

Emory
Mayo
Minnesota
Iowa
Baylor
Loyola
GWU
CCF
Cinci
Case
OSU


Thanks in advance

Mayo = Emory
Minn = Iowa = Bayor
Case = OSU
CCF = Cinci
Loyola
GWU

 

[rv123]

Maybe like . . .

University of Arizona
University of Louisville
University of Connecticut
GWU
Wayne State = University of Buffalo
the rest

I have a few of questions-
1. I didn't get a very good vibe from Arizona, specially with regards to their poor GI match. Was your ranking influenced by weather?
2. Leaving aside the Detroit factor, hows Wayne State?
3. Although I liked GWU more than Louisville and Connecticut on interview day, is it a reputed name for competitive fellowships? (residents seemed very positive about getting into any fellowships they want)
Thanks

 

[IMPC2012]

Hey guys and gals. Does anyone have any insight on how you would rank the following programs for those of us interested in general internal medicine ie primary care:

Yale PC, Hopkins Urban Health, Hopkins Bayview GIM track, Brown GIM track, NYU PC, Mt Sinai PC track, Emory PC track, Northwestern?

I will add that I will not be pursuing a fellowship immediately following residency training, so looking to go somewhere that will provide me with the best/solid clinical training that will allow me to be a competent outpatient physician. I forsee myself working with underserved populations. Really curious to hear about what some of you all may think of the programs with the newer PC/GIM tracks ie Hopkins' Osler Urban Health track and Mt Sinai's PC track. Thanks in advance everyone, looking forward to reading your responses!

Decided to bump my old posting. I realize GIM/PC isn't popular on the board but def would appreciate any input you all have. Thanks in advance!

BTW I have since decided NYC is not for me so interested in opinions on ranking the following: Hopkins UH, Yale PC, Hopkins Bayview GIM track, Brown GIM track, Emory PC track, and Northwestern. Would like a strong clinical foundation and prefer to work with underserved populations.

 

[gold&black2005]

Decided to bump my old posting. I realize GIM/PC isn't popular on the board but def would appreciate any input you all have. Thanks in advance!

BTW I have since decided NYC is not for me so interested in opinions on ranking the following: Hopkins UH, Yale PC, Hopkins Bayview GIM track, Brown GIM track, Emory PC track, and Northwestern. Would like a strong clinical foundation and prefer to work with underserved populations.

Too bad about NYC, if only bc Bellevue and Monte have such strong legacies in PC/SocMed. Anyway, given your interests, NW should be dead last - it has neither the population nor culture that you want.

Hopkins UH is the wild card...the program in theory looks great (best clinical training in the country, arguably, plus an urban health component with a masters degree) but the scuttlebutt out of there (lack of true culture, new program, limited support from stakeholders, scramble last year) isn't great. In three years, sound like it'll be great, though, once the kinks are worked out.

Yale PC
Bayview >/= Hopkins UH
Brown
Emory
NW

 

[Member7819]

You need to help us out a little bit here...advice on how to rank if you want GI/Cards...if you want just the best clinical experience possible...by academic prestige...best place to start forging a research/academic career...best mix of enjoyable place to live/solid program?! Tell us what YOU want, and then maybe some people on here can suggest programs where you might find that

Thanks, I should have been more clear. Could I have opinions based on prestige, research opportunities and a good place to live.
Thanks!

USC
UCIrvine
UCDavis
Kaiser SC
Banner Good Sam - Phoenix
Mayo Arizona
UCLA Olive View

 

[middler]

single and interested in cards

Maryland
RWJ
Loyola
Wake
UT Houston
Rochester Strong
Rush
NSLIJ
Lahey Clinic
Temple
Lennox Hill

Any thoughts?

Could someone help me with my list?

 

[Instatewaiter]

[

Too bad about NYC, if only bc Bellevue and Monte have such strong legacies in PC/SocMed. Anyway, given your interests, NW should be dead last - it has neither the population nor culture that you want.

Hopkins UH is the wild card...the program in theory looks great (best clinical training in the country, arguably, plus an urban health component with a masters degree) but the scuttlebutt out of there (lack of true culture, new program, limited support from stakeholders, scramble last year) isn't great. In three years, sound like it'll be great, though, once the kinks are worked out.

Yale PC
Bayview >/= Hopkins UH
Brown
Emory
NW

If you want to do urban health, I do think hopkins is a great place to train. The reason they scrambled last year is because it went onto ERAS late b/c they got funding for it late.

It is new, no doubt about that. The clinical training really is second to none and you are right there with the osler housestaff. You are placed on a firm like everyone else but have the added urban health part. Now if you want to do normal primary care for a less-than-underserved population other programs are probably your best bet. But, if you want to help the underserved, I can't think of a better place to train than Baltimore.

I'd rank it:
Yale PC vs Hopkins UH (if you want urban health- if not put hopkins lower)
Bayview
Hopkins (if urban health is not high up on your list)
Others

 

[newspeak]

Mayo = Emory
Minn = Iowa = Bayor
Case = OSU
CCF = Cinci
Loyola
GWU

thanks a lot

i liked them equally and have no geo preference

any other takers?

 

[mdhopeful5]

Hey guys... was wondering if you could help me rank the following programs in two different ways (1: prestige , 2: warmth/friendliness of program)
- Wash U
- UTSW
- Yale
- Emory
- UAB
- UVA
- Colorado
- Tulane
- Baylor

 

[KRichards62]

Hey guys... was wondering if you could help me rank the following programs in two different ways (1: prestige , 2: warmth/friendliness of program)
- Wash U
- UTSW
- Yale
- Emory
- UAB
- UVA
- Colorado
- Tulane
- Baylor

Atop both lists: Wash U, Yale, UAB, UVA

Obviously UTSW and Emory are very strong programs but probably lag in the warmth/friendliness category.

 

[36639119]

So I am making my rank list soon and am extremely confused as of right now and could use a little advice. I'm prolly interested in cards/GI so I know name matters a lot, but I definitely want a good work/life balance. However, I also love NYC and have seen that this city may not be too conducive to this, esp with the ancillary services. Here is my list of programs (in no particular order).

NYU
Emory
UIC
Rush
Montefiore (NYC)
NorthShore LIJ (NYC)
BU
GW
Jefferson
Brown
Robert Wood (NJ)
Maryland

Maybe some categories or leagues would be appreciated? Not a big fan of Baltimore at all, but everybody on here seems to love their program. Also I dunno if I'd move to Chicago, but the programs (esp Rush) were very nice. If I did go to Chicago I'd prolly move east for fellowship.. Thanks for any help!

RE-bump...

 

[jdh71]

I have a few of questions-
1. I didn't get a very good vibe from Arizona, specially with regards to their poor GI match. Was your ranking influenced by weather?
2. Leaving aside the Detroit factor, hows Wayne State?
3. Although I liked GWU more than Louisville and Connecticut on interview day, is it a reputed name for competitive fellowships? (residents seemed very positive about getting into any fellowships they want)
Thanks

Be an excellent resident and you should get the type of fellowship you want.

 

[jdh71]

Decided to bump my old posting. I realize GIM/PC isn't popular on the board but def would appreciate any input you all have. Thanks in advance!

BTW I have since decided NYC is not for me so interested in opinions on ranking the following: Hopkins UH, Yale PC, Hopkins Bayview GIM track, Brown GIM track, Emory PC track, and Northwestern. Would like a strong clinical foundation and prefer to work with underserved populations.

"unpopular" in that most of us either are thinking about doing a fellowship or are doing a fellowship in a sub-specialty - those of us who have been there, done that, give nothing but mad proper to the people who want to do GIM/PC. It's much easier to be a good consultant than even a competent GIM/PC - and good generalists are worth their weight in gold, literally.

I simply don't know how to answer to your query and I'm glad a few people on the board were able to help.

 

[gatorguy17]

So I have Baylor and University of Wisconsin in my top 3 and was hoping to get a little insight. I am looking to go into GI after training, and may have a strong interest in pursuing training in California. Though these programs are more or less equivalent in "prestige" imo, which do you think would help give me flexibility in pursuing fellowship training on the west or east coast. Thanks

 

[jdh71]

Thanks, I should have been more clear. Could I have opinions based on prestige, research opportunities and a good place to live.
Thanks!

USC
UCIrvine
UCDavis
Kaiser SC
Banner Good Sam - Phoenix
Mayo Arizona
UCLA Olive View

based on your criteria, maybe something like this

USC = UCIrvine
UCDavis
Mayo Arizona
UCLA Olive View
Banner Good Sam - Phoenix
Kaiser SC

 

[jdh71]

Could someone help me with my list?

Maryland
Wake
RWJ
Loyola
Rush = Temple
UT Houston
the rest

 

[jdh71]

RE-bump...

maybe like:

Emory
Maryland = NYU
BU
UIC = Monte = RWNJ
Rush = Jeff = Brown
GW
NorthShore LIJ (NYC)

 

[jdh71]

So I have Baylor and University of Wisconsin in my top 3 and was hoping to get a little insight. I am looking to go into GI after training, and may have a strong interest in pursuing training in California. Though these programs are more or less equivalent in "prestige" imo, which do you think would help give me flexibility in pursuing fellowship training on the west or east coast. Thanks

hard to say

everything being equal go with the program you like better

 

[DrVanNostran]

JDH, what is your opinion on Mayo vs CCF? I felt they were the same program with similar caliber match lists for the most part.

 

[adagio]

JDH, what is your opinion on Mayo vs CCF? I felt they were the same program with similar caliber match lists for the most part.

from what i hear, mayo is a whole different tier.

also, my understanding is that mayo's fellowship list is much stronger

 

[DrVanNostran]

So I have Baylor and University of Wisconsin in my top 3 and was hoping to get a little insight. I am looking to go into GI after training, and may have a strong interest in pursuing training in California. Though these programs are more or less equivalent in "prestige" imo, which do you think would help give me flexibility in pursuing fellowship training on the west or east coast. Thanks

I felt like the Baylor match list was more diverse than wisconsin. This is probably due to the majority of Wisconsin being from midwest schools.

 

[DrVanNostran]

from what i hear, mayo is a whole different tier.

also, my understanding is that mayo's fellowship list is much stronger

Traditionally, yes. But after seeing both, I felt like they were more or less the same? Mayo had St. Marys and i think better didactics. I know Mayo is probably the "Better" program. But I might like being at CCF better. I had a nice day and I actually don't mind Cleveland

The match list for Mayo is definitely not MUCH stronger. Besides cardiology, all is about equal.

My wife and I are going back and forth with our list. Top 7 today:

1. Rush
2. UIC
3. Baylor
4. UC-Irvine
5. Mayo
6. CCF
7. Emory

 

[adagio]

whoow .. emory in 7!!!!!!!

probably there is a lot of geographical bias in your list

 

[adagio]

Dr. Nielsen is more than great! I had a brief meeting with him,
and you could genuinely tell how determined he is to recruit the best
possible candidates.

Also, I learned from different sources how wonderful of a leader he is.

 

[DrVanNostran]

whoow .. emory in 7!!!!!!!

probably there is a lot of geographical bias in your list

You've gotta consider where you will be happy. Rush and UIC both have pretty amazing match lists for what is considered a mid-tier program. I think a ton of the mid-tiers get overlooked. As JDH said, just about any of these will get us the fellowship we want.

 

[adagio]

You've gotta consider where you will be happy. Rush and UIC both have pretty amazing match lists for what is considered a mid-tier program. I think a ton of the mid-tiers get overlooked. As JDH said, just about any of these will get us the fellowship we want.

👍👍👍

 

[isomorphism]

I was wondering how people would rank the following programs... any input is greatly appreciated! I'm interested in a GI fellowship after residency.

UC Irvine
Harbor UCLA
USC
Scripps Green
UIC
U of Chicago Northshore

 

[Elixir86]

So, I'm having a hard to time deciding on my #2 - 5 for my ROL. I know what I'll put for #1 and I have a general idea for the bottom half, but I want to make my top 5 solid b/c there's no telling what will happen come Match day. How would you all rank the following middle part of my list.

[Some parameters: I'm considering GI in the future, I'm wary of high cost of living b/c I'd like to not only pay my rent but also hopefully start chipping away at my loans (although some friends of mine think this is a stupid thing to worry about now), location is slowly starting to become less of a factor for me (I'm from VA) but I seem to go back and forth on this. Any help is appreciated.]

WashU
Cornell
Northwestern
Yale
UPMC
Vanderbilt
UNC

 

[nocturnal55]

.

 

[Shoryuken]

A friend and I interviewed at very similar places (about 80% same programs) and while we have some rough rank order lists neither of us is able to get a good idea of how academic strengths and reputation would factor (or not) our lists. I know the places are geographically diverse (and some have different 'personalities') but those are factors that we don't need help with - rather we wanted to get input as to academic strength/reputation (esp for fellowship)/etc since we have less experience in those areas.

We are both interested in doing Cardiology (slight off-chance of Pulm but 85% set on cardiology) for fellowship and wanted to know how the following places would rank in terms of academic strength/reputation/etc when it comes time for a fellowship (i.e. from a Fellowship Director's stance):

Boston University
Case Western Reserve
University of Maryland
University of Iowa
University of Alabama Birmingham
University of Cincinnati
University of Louisville
Ohio State University
Saint Louis University
University of Utah
University of Southern California
UCLA Harbor
Cleveland Clinic
Loyola University Medical Center
Wayne State University
Robert Wood Johnson - UMDNJ

Sorry for the super long list, but given that we both want to do Cardiology (80% certain, 20% Pulm/Critical Care) and just wanted feedback as to academic strength/reputation/etc we figured one post with both lists combined would be more sensible than two posts of 10-12 programs each.

Thanks!

 

[rv123]

Dr. Nielsen is more than great! I had a brief meeting with him,
and you could genuinely tell how determined he is to recruit the best
possible candidates.

Also, I learned from different sources how wonderful of a leader he is.

Leader my axx......I have met him and understand the strategy he employs to choose the candidates...For IMGs...he would offer prematch positions to the outstanding candidates, who would have definitely matched at some place better had they gone for MATCH. For AMGs..all that looks well on interview day is not well in reality. I'm sure that the sources telling you about his leadership qualities are the ones who have never been to a better place.

I have had a couple of rotations there as med student and what I believe is that CCF is primarily run by Fellows and attendings. Residents just follow their orders and have no patient autonomy. In contrast, Mayo is altogether a different league. I had one rotation there and I could actually tell the difference.

CCF has almost the same potential as Mayo for being an excellent residency program, but leaders like Nielsen can never take it to that level. (One of my friends is ranking MGH>Mayo>Penn>rest)

 

[nomorelaziness]

the longer i stare at my list, the more confused and delirious i'm becoming... i'm so stuck! help! i'm not sure what I want to do in terms of fellowship yet...

yale PC
jefferson
temple
UMD
montefiore
Case
Brown

thank you 🙂

 

[nateshizzle]

1. Rush
2. UIC
3. Baylor
4. UC-Irvine
5. Mayo
6. CCF
7. Emory

What happened to OHSU?

 

[adagio]

What happened to OHSU?

 

[DrVanNostran]

I loooooved ohsu. List this far is a combo of what I liked, geography, and what my wife liked. If I was going in solo on this, ohsu would be a top 3. Family in Houston and cle played a large role

 

[arielred]

Are most people here sending an "I'm ranking you #1" email? I flip and flop between my 1 and 2 and I would feel like a douche if I told someone I'm ranking them 1 and change my mind at the last minute. However I don't want to be ranked lower because I showed no interest close to ranking time.

 

[LoveGI]

Are most people here sending an "I'm ranking you #1" email? I flip and flop between my 1 and 2 and I would feel like a douche if I told someone I'm ranking them 1 and change my mind at the last minute. However I don't want to be ranked lower because I showed no interest close to ranking time.

On a similar note, I was contacted via phone by someone in a program, expressing their interest in my candidacy and offering to answer any questions, etc. I returned the call (as I had missed it originally) and via their secretary stated that I am very interested, and although I have no questions I hold them as one of my top choices and would be very happy to be there this summer. By the response, it is clear they read this as "I'm ranking you first", although no such thing was explicitly said. I'm officially flustered, as I didn't mean to imply they will be first (although they will def be in my top 3) but certainly can't correct them now in case they do end up first. Sigh, the politics of this are frustrating...I would prefer to let my ROL do the talking but it's a difficult spot to not respond at all to one of your top choices if they reach out to you at this stage!

 

[KatLady4eva]

Not sure how everyone else is doing , but the more I dwell on this decision the more confused I get. So instead of weighing all those pros and cons, I've decided to make this decision based upon the one thing that really matters-- booze.

My method goes a little something like this:
Step 1: Using my 2 drink rule to weed out some programs-- Residents must have had at least 2 alcoholic beverages at dinner. Let's face it, if they didn't have 2 drinks they are obviously a sub-par group of individuals.
Step 2: For each additional alcoholic beverage consumed, that program gets a "point".

This method I've decided is not only simple, but also less anxiety-provoking... CHEERS!!

 

[butterfinger]

Having trouble with Cornell vs. Colorado vs. Emory vs. UCSD. I don't really like NYC but the opportunities coming from Cornell are good. Liked Colorado but match list was heavily in house. Have heard mediocre reviews on Emory from years past but their most recent fellowship match was very impressive. As for UCSD, I don't really know how academically/clinically strong this program is although I do know their medical school is quite good. Loved San Diego but who doesn't? Anyone have any thoughts to what the pros/cons of these programs are for someone interested in academics who wants to have options for competitive fellowship?

 

[jdh71]

JDH, what is your opinion on Mayo vs CCF? I felt they were the same program with similar caliber match lists for the most part.

Mayo is the much better academic program. I think Mayo owns CCF without any lube. What was it about the match lists you thought was so similar?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Be an excellent resident and you should get the type of fellowship you want.

Where have i heard this before
Preallo- "Rawk the MCAT and you'll be fine"
Allo- "Rawk the boards and be a great medical student and you will be great"

I guess this is the latest iteration.

JDH, what is your opinion on Mayo vs CCF? I felt they were the same program with similar caliber match lists for the most part.

Mayo > CCF

1. Rush
2. UIC
3. Baylor
4. UC-Irvine
5. Mayo
6. CCF
7. Emory

whoow .. emory in 7!!!!!!!
probably there is a lot of geographical bias in your list

I ended up not ranking emory at all. It's all about personal preference and how the program strikes you.

Are most people here sending an "I'm ranking you #1" email? I flip and flop between my 1 and 2 and I would feel like a douche if I told someone I'm ranking them 1 and change my mind at the last minute. However I don't want to be ranked lower because I showed no interest close to ranking time.

Send a vague "I loved your program and would be incredibly happy if you all chose me" e-mail. It keeps you options open and doesn't commit.

 

[jdh71]

Traditionally, yes. But after seeing both, I felt like they were more or less the same? Mayo had St. Marys and i think better didactics. I know Mayo is probably the "Better" program. But I might like being at CCF better. I had a nice day and I actually don't mind Cleveland

The match list for Mayo is definitely not MUCH stronger. Besides cardiology, all is about equal.

My wife and I are going back and forth with our list. Top 7 today:

1. Rush
2. UIC
3. Baylor
4. UC-Irvine
5. Mayo
6. CCF
7. Emory

Look, dude. I'm not trying to piss all over the respect you have for your wife, but you've only got ONE shot at this residency thing. I promise you are NOT going to match very low on your list. Consider what is best for you and your career and negotiate back from that point not the other way around. I hear of too many spouses putting stupid (IMHO) restrictions on those trying to match and it drives me nuts. If it's her list or divorce, well . . . I guess I'd personally call that bluff, but . . . at last I can understand why you're making some of the moves you're making.

 

[jdh71]

I was wondering how people would rank the following programs... any input is greatly appreciated! I'm interested in a GI fellowship after residency.

UC Irvine
Harbor UCLA
USC
Scripps Green
UIC
U of Chicago Northshore

USC = Irvine (because of in house matches)
Harbor = UIC
SG
Northshore