Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[fldoctorgirl]

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Alright. Figured I'd shoot my shot with one of these posts.

School: DO school (original 5 or whatever, if it matters)
Step 1: 250-255
Level 1: 605-610
Step 2: pending, hoping to at least match my Step 1 score
Class rank: middle 1/3 pre-clinical, should be in the top for clinical (this hasn't been released to us yet)
Clinicals: We can't honor electives because our grade is based on the shelf exam. Honors in all but one so far, one is still pending. What I feel are strong comments/evals.
LORs: Expecting 2 pretty strong ones. Planning to get a third from my sub-I. Have 2 other options to use as an alternate third if the sub-I doesn't work out or if I feel I want a fourth one, but these may be slightly less strong.
Red flags: none that I'm aware of
Research: none in med school. A couple of things from undergrad, I really don't like research and so made no effort to do any.
ECs: club leadership, volunteer at student-run clinic, nothing superb from my perspective

Goal: South Florida match. Not gung-ho about university or community as I am not sure that I want to do a fellowship. I am also iffy about HCA programs and will probably only apply to the ones that are directly in the location I want to be in or are strongly university-affiliated. I have heavy ties to FL, my entire family lives there and I have never lived anywhere else outside of for med school.

Current FL list:
Broward Health
Memorial Regional
Cleveland Clinic FL
FSU
UCF Orlando (HCA)
FAU
Aventura Hospital (HCA)
Kendall (HCA)
UM/Holy Cross
UM Jackson
UM/JFK Palm Beach (didn't know this was an HCA?)
UCF Gainesville (HCA)
NCH Naples
FSU Sarasota
Palmetto
Mount Sinai Miami Beach
UF
UF Jacksonville
USF Tampa
Mayo Jacksonville
Orlando Health
Advent Health Orlando
USF Largo (HCA)
Westside Regional (HCA)
Wellington Regional

OOS:
Targeting mostly university programs for OOS-- since I'd really like to be in FL above all else it seems pointless to me to heavily target OOS community since I'm a competitive applicant I think? I'm not going to list all of these but curious if anyone has any recommendations specifically. I currently have 15 OOS programs on my list and have a few more that I know I am going to add. My target number of total apps is 40-50, and I currently have 40 on my list (without the couple of extras I still need to add). I realize this may be a lot but I'd rather not take any chances. Curious if people feel this is a good number as well.

Thanks all! Crazy to think I'm at this point already.

 

[sunshinefl]

Alright. Figured I'd shoot my shot with one of these posts.

School: DO school (original 5 or whatever, if it matters)
Step 1: 250-255
Level 1: 605-610
Step 2: pending, hoping to at least match my Step 1 score
Class rank: middle 1/3 pre-clinical, should be in the top for clinical (this hasn't been released to us yet)
Clinicals: We can't honor electives because our grade is based on the shelf exam. Honors in all but one so far, one is still pending. What I feel are strong comments/evals.
LORs: Expecting 2 pretty strong ones. Planning to get a third from my sub-I. Have 2 other options to use as an alternate third if the sub-I doesn't work out or if I feel I want a fourth one, but these may be slightly less strong.
Red flags: none that I'm aware of
Research: none in med school. A couple of things from undergrad, I really don't like research and so made no effort to do any.
ECs: club leadership, volunteer at student-run clinic, nothing superb from my perspective

Goal: South Florida match. Not gung-ho about university or community as I am not sure that I want to do a fellowship. I am also iffy about HCA programs and will probably only apply to the ones that are directly in the location I want to be in or are strongly university-affiliated. I have heavy ties to FL, my entire family lives there and I have never lived anywhere else outside of for med school.

Current FL list:
Broward Health
Memorial Regional
Cleveland Clinic FL
FSU
UCF Orlando (HCA)
FAU
Aventura Hospital (HCA)
Kendall (HCA)
UM/Holy Cross
UM Jackson
UM/JFK Palm Beach (didn't know this was an HCA?)
UCF Gainesville (HCA)
NCH Naples
FSU Sarasota
Palmetto
Mount Sinai Miami Beach
UF
UF Jacksonville
USF Tampa
Mayo Jacksonville
Orlando Health
Advent Health Orlando
USF Largo (HCA)
Westside Regional (HCA)
Wellington Regional

OOS:
Targeting mostly university programs for OOS-- since I'd really like to be in FL above all else it seems pointless to me to heavily target OOS community since I'm a competitive applicant I think? I'm not going to list all of these but curious if anyone has any recommendations specifically. I currently have 15 programs on my list and have a few more that I know I am going to add. My target number of total apps is 40-50, and I currently have 40 on my list (without the couple of extras I still need to add). I realize this may be a lot but I'd rather not take any chances. Curious if people feel this is a good number as well.

Thanks all! Crazy to think I'm at this point already.

you should get lots of good interest from these programs. I would ditch westside, Aventura, and Kendall if I were you. And add Broward North. Their first class is this coming year, so you would be class 2 potentially and they seemed good. Yes UM/JFK is HCA and much less UM than Jackson or even Holy Cross. Wellington Regional just got new ACGME Accreditation after it falling apart during the AOA transition. They filled the upcoming 2021 PGY1 class post-SOAP and were trying to backfill the incoming PGY2 class to have a full roster.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

you should get lots of good interest from these programs. I would ditch westside, Aventura, and Kendall if I were you. And add Broward North. Their first class is this coming year, so you would be class 2 potentially and they seemed good. Yes UM/JFK is HCA and much less UM than Jackson or even Holy Cross. Wellington Regional just got new ACGME Accreditation after it falling apart during the AOA transition. They filled the upcoming 2021 class post-SOAP and were trying to backfill the year prior to have a full roster.

Those 3 are definitely low on my list but just based on location I figured I'd include them. Thanks for telling me about Broward North, I had no idea they had a new program! That's exciting. It's hard to get the inside scoop not being in FL for med school ha-- I figured something was sketch about Wellington after I saw they were trying to recruit outside the match but threw them on the list for location. Will definitely reconsider.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Your application seems pretty good assuming you do well on step 2 and your LOR are strong. While some may be reaches (UM), you should apply to every program out of the 41 in Florida that you'd be willing to go to. Is your desire to avoid HCA stronger than your desire to stay in Florida?

Also, is your desire to match into one of the more competitive IM subspecialties stronger than your desire to stay in Florida? If so, then you should definitely apply broadly to low and mid tier university programs out of state. While it's certainly possible to match into competitive fellowships from community programs, coming from a name brand university residency definitely gives a leg up. Top tier places are likely out of reach for you (Duke, Emory, UNC, Vanderbilt, etc), but otherwise apply to every university program in every state you're willing to move to.

Plan to spend a couple thousand dollars on your applications. It's a drop in the bucket compared to what we spend on medical school and what your future salary will be (I make $2000/shift doing hospitalist moonlighting during fellowship).

No one can predict why some people get invites at certain places and others do not. Sometimes it's just as random as the mood of the person reviewing your application on a given day. Such is life. Control what you can control (step scores, LORs, personal statement, etc), apply broadly, and let the cards fall where they may. Residency interview season is stressful enough, don't add more stress worrying about things that are out of your control.

Thank you so much for the feedback! I really appreciate it.

Ideally I'd like to go to an academic program that's non-HCA in Florida. However I do plan on applying to all of the Florida programs like you mentioned. I know there are some university affiliated HCA programs in Florida which I would consider if I got an interview at them (USF affiliated, UCF affiliated etc). I'm not currently sure if my desire to stay in FL is stronger than avoiding HCA, mainly because I think not all HCA programs are the same, however I rotated at a lot of HCA hospitals 3rd year and didn't like it so that's what I'm basing my viewpoint off of currently.

The more I research the more I'm thinking about the possibility of having to leave FL for an academic program.

How do I find out which university programs are mid-tier and low-tier? Is there a list that I can reference while researching programs?

 

[sunshinefl]

Those 3 are definitely low on my list but just based on location I figured I'd include them. Thanks for telling me about Broward North, I had no idea they had a new program! That's exciting. It's hard to get the inside scoop not being in FL for med school ha-- I figured something was sketch about Wellington after I saw they were trying to recruit outside the match but threw them on the list for location. Will definitely reconsider.

another one to keep an eye on is Advent Health Sebring had an IM program approved a while ago. I contacted them to see if they were seating for my year and they said no, they would be seating for 2022, your year. But that's literally all I know about them.

 

[sunshinefl]

Those 3 are definitely low on my list but just based on location I figured I'd include them. Thanks for telling me about Broward North, I had no idea they had a new program! That's exciting. It's hard to get the inside scoop not being in FL for med school ha-- I figured something was sketch about Wellington after I saw they were trying to recruit outside the match but threw them on the list for location. Will definitely reconsider.

I know, the location for you. But girl you have a much better app than I did and I DNR'ed 2 of those 3. I wouldn't waste your time. You'll have much better options.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Alright. Figured I'd shoot my shot with one of these posts.

School: DO school (original 5 or whatever, if it matters)
Step 1: 250-255
Level 1: 605-610
Step 2: pending, hoping to at least match my Step 1 score
Class rank: middle 1/3 pre-clinical, should be in the top for clinical (this hasn't been released to us yet)
Clinicals: We can't honor electives because our grade is based on the shelf exam. Honors in all but one so far, one is still pending. What I feel are strong comments/evals.
LORs: Expecting 2 pretty strong ones. Planning to get a third from my sub-I. Have 2 other options to use as an alternate third if the sub-I doesn't work out or if I feel I want a fourth one, but these may be slightly less strong.
Red flags: none that I'm aware of
Research: none in med school. A couple of things from undergrad, I really don't like research and so made no effort to do any.
ECs: club leadership, volunteer at student-run clinic, nothing superb from my perspective

Goal: South Florida match. Not gung-ho about university or community as I am not sure that I want to do a fellowship. I am also iffy about HCA programs and will probably only apply to the ones that are directly in the location I want to be in or are strongly university-affiliated. I have heavy ties to FL, my entire family lives there and I have never lived anywhere else outside of for med school.

Current FL list:
Broward Health
Memorial Regional
Cleveland Clinic FL
FSU
UCF Orlando (HCA)
FAU
Aventura Hospital (HCA)
Kendall (HCA)
UM/Holy Cross
UM Jackson
UM/JFK Palm Beach (didn't know this was an HCA?)
UCF Gainesville (HCA)
NCH Naples
FSU Sarasota
Palmetto
Mount Sinai Miami Beach
UF
UF Jacksonville
USF Tampa
Mayo Jacksonville
Orlando Health
Advent Health Orlando
USF Largo (HCA)
Westside Regional (HCA)
Wellington Regional

OOS:
Targeting mostly university programs for OOS-- since I'd really like to be in FL above all else it seems pointless to me to heavily target OOS community since I'm a competitive applicant I think? I'm not going to list all of these but curious if anyone has any recommendations specifically. I currently have 15 OOS programs on my list and have a few more that I know I am going to add. My target number of total apps is 40-50, and I currently have 40 on my list (without the couple of extras I still need to add). I realize this may be a lot but I'd rather not take any chances. Curious if people feel this is a good number as well.

Thanks all! Crazy to think I'm at this point already.

You weren't kidding we're targeting the same areas haha! Except I'm like a much less competitive version of you lol.

Good luck! I do hope we meet on the application trail if it's not virtual somehow or maybe we match at the same place :O

Also yes JFK is HCA, it's a very nice hospital though and seems a lot less HCA-y (if that's a thing lol) than the others I've seen. The residents seem happy.

 

[the argus]

How do I find out which university programs are mid-tier and low-tier? Is there a list that I can reference while researching programs?

There's no official list. Should clarify that we are talking about academic prestige and tier, which may or may not matter to you and your career. There's tons of programs that will prepare you to be a good clinician.

Easiest way is to just look at where the current residents went to medical school. Academia loves prestige and pedigree. If the current residents are USMDs from competitive medical schools, then probably a higher tier program. If there are more DOs, US-IMGs, and foreign-IMG then probably lower tier.

 

[FrechToastFries]

Kind of unrelated, but what's the consensus on this forum for how important auditon/aways are for IM? I've heard mixed things from people. Our school makes us basically do all aways for 4th year, but I mean more traditional audition/Sub-I rotations where you're trying to impress a program. I applied to a program I really like for August/September for a general IM rotation but got rejected, is it worth it to apply to IM subspecialties for the rest of the year (like October onward) to try to get some face time there, or should I just move on?

 

[gutonc]

Kind of unrelated, but what's the consensus on this forum for how important auditon/aways are for IM? I've heard mixed things from people. Our school makes us basically do all aways for 4th year, but I mean more traditional audition/Sub-I rotations where you're trying to impress a program. I applied to a program I really like for August/September for a general IM rotation but got rejected, is it worth it to apply to IM subspecialties for the rest of the year (like October onward) to try to get some face time there, or should I just move on?

You should just move on.

 

[statlin98]

As a DO student, am I going to be at a big disadvantage for upper mid tier/mid tier academic programs if I don't have a LoR from my IM clerkship? Or having never worked with residents prior to interview season? Right now, my planned LoR's, which I believe all should be strong personality letters, are:

- Outpatient IM doc
- Well-connected cardiologist working at community hospital
- Well-connected GI working at community hospital
- IM clinical chair letter

Stats:
- 250-255 step 1, hopefully will at least match that on step2.
- 654 Level 1
- Somewhat lacking in research, 1 poster, hopefully 2 case reports
- No red flags
- Majority honors in clinical rotations, including honors in pt. 2 of my IM rotation.

I planned to do a sub-I at a local community program that has residents, but it got cancelled due to COVID and pushed back to like February. So I can at least say I'm scheduled to work with residents at some point. I didn't scramble to get any aways because I've always heard that they are not necessary for IM, but I kinda wish I had so I can at least say I have worked with residents prior to interview season.

 

[sunshinefl]

As a DO student, am I going to be at a big disadvantage for upper mid tier/mid tier academic programs if I don't have a LoR from my IM clerkship? Or having never worked with residents prior to interview season? Right now, my planned LoR's, which I believe all should be strong personality letters, are:

- Outpatient IM doc
- Well-connected cardiologist working at community hospital
- Well-connected GI working at community hospital
- IM clinical chair letter

Stats:
- 250-255 step 1, hopefully will at least match that on step2.
- 654 Level 1
- Somewhat lacking in research, 1 poster, hopefully 2 case reports
- No red flags
- Majority honors in clinical rotations, including honors in pt. 2 of my IM rotation.

I planned to do a sub-I at a local community program that has residents, but it got cancelled due to COVID and pushed back to like February. So I can at least say I'm scheduled to work with residents at some point. I didn't scramble to get any aways because I've always heard that they are not necessary for IM, but I kinda wish I had so I can at least say I have worked with residents prior to interview season.

It won’t help with any program. But focus on what you can control.

 

[Deecee2DO]

What is best way to potentially overcome (or at least have a fighting chance at an interview) DO bias at top tier (top 20-25) IM programs if you dont have the opportunity to get a clinical IM letter from an academic institution or have the opportunity to do SubI at academic institution? aside from having every other part of your application being stellar (scores, M3 grades, evals, MSPE, letters) would it be having tons of pubs (like 10+) in high impact peer reviewed journals? Phone calls? Both?

 

[AussieAg]

What is best way to potentially overcome (or at least have a fighting chance at an interview) DO bias at top tier (top 20-25) IM programs if you dont have the opportunity to get a clinical IM letter from an academic institution or have the opportunity to do SubI at academic institution? aside from having every other part of your application being stellar (scores, M3 grades, evals, MSPE, letters) would it be having tons of pubs (like 10+) in high impact peer reviewed journals? Phone calls? Both?

Dude. Chill on the top 25 thing. As @gutonc says, "control the things you can control." If the rest of your application is as stellar as you say it is, congratulations, wherever you match is lucky to have you. Interviewing at a top 25 program (thanks to connections, auditions, letters, whatever) still doesn't guarantee you a match. As a top 25 PD once told me, "you may have stellar credentials, but so does everyone else...we eventually have to use something to discriminate and sometimes that is your degree."

 

[Deecee2DO]

Dude. Chill on the top 25 thing. As @gutonc says, "control the things you can control." If the rest of your application is as stellar as you say it is, congratulations, wherever you match is lucky to have you. Interviewing at a top 25 program (thanks to connections, auditions, letters, whatever) still doesn't guarantee you a match. As a top 25 PD once told me, "you may have stellar credentials, but so does everyone else...we eventually have to use something to discriminate and sometimes that is your degree."

wordddd maybe ill just retake the mcat lmao jkjk

 

[JimBone905]

227 Step 1 score WAMC for northeast IM large community/academic hospitals?

Title is the question.

I am a DO. Comlex ~540-550 although i know it doesnt matter

1 publication in a high impact journal as a 2nd author. no other research yet (just started M3, will try to do something along the way). What are the actual match rates in decent NJ/NYC hospitals? I cant seem to find anything outside of "residency explorer" that gives actual cutoffs and averages (idk if i trust the scores posted there, could be outdated). hospital websites are slightly confusing with that they want in terms of scores saying that they look for average candidates or have cut-offs at 220, so IDK where I fall on the spectrum.

Any advice would be appreciated. Can't stop thinking about my chances and am paranoid with my score.

PS: Should I take step 2 for IM? How should I study for it and my COMAT's at the same time?

 

[gutonc]

Note: Above post merged with WAMC thread where it belongs and edited to add the title to the post. Carry on.

 

[Future_HeartMD]

Hi all probably way too early to post something but I wanted to see if I needed to boost up research on my app for the programs and career I'm interested in.

Top 15 med school on West coast.
P/F preclinical curriculum
Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK- not taken yet.
2 rotations done so far: HP OBGYN, H Peds.

Research: 1 2nd author paper in undergrad, 1 middle author paper just submitted (acceptance pending), 1 abstract submitted for conference (acceptance pending). 1 other co author paper possible this fall. No first author pubs but could pursue first author pub with project submitted for abstract.
Typical ECs and leadership.

Career interests: Subspecialize in Cards, GI, or Pulm/CC. Very interested in programs in the South/Southeast like Emory, UVA, UAB, UNC, Duke, Vandy, UTSW, Mayo Jax, UF, Miami, etc but obviously will apply broadly. I know my CK score and rotation grades will be much more important but outside of that, do I need a first author pub? Sorry for the limited data but thanks for the help.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Hi all probably way too early to post something but I wanted to see if I needed to boost up research on my app for the programs and career I'm interested in.

Top 15 med school on West coast.
P/F preclinical curriculum
Step 1: 233
Step 2 CK- not taken yet.
2 rotations done so far: HP OBGYN, H Peds.

Research: 1 2nd author paper in undergrad, 1 middle author paper just submitted (acceptance pending), 1 abstract submitted for conference (acceptance pending). 1 other co author paper possible this fall. No first author pubs but could pursue first author pub with project submitted for abstract.
Typical ECs and leadership.

Career interests: Subspecialize in Cards, GI, or Pulm/CC. Very interested in programs in the South/Southeast like Emory, UVA, UAB, UNC, Duke, Vandy, UTSW, Mayo Jax, UF, Miami, etc but obviously will apply broadly. I know my CK score and rotation grades will be much more important but outside of that, do I need a first author pub? Sorry for the limited data but thanks for the help.

Top 15 med school in the country or on the west coast? If youre at a T15 school that should carry you a long way in and of itself. Im only an MS4 so I dont know too much as im applying to residency as well so take this with a grain of salt but if you are an overall avg applicant coming from a T15 school with decent research id imagine youd have a solid shot at a few of the programs you listed such as UVA, UNC, Miami, UF, Mayo Jax. Lets wait and see what others have to say about your shot at UTSW Duke Emory and Vandy

 

[Future_HeartMD]

Top 15 med school in the country or on the west coast? If youre at a T15 school that should carry you a long way in and of itself. Im only an MS4 so I dont know too much as im applying to residency as well

Top 15 in country located on west coast. Only reason I specified was because of my interest in going cross country for residency. Mainly due to being closer to family.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Top 15 in country located on west coast. Only reason I specified was because of my interest in going cross country for residency. Mainly due to being closer to family.

ahh okay! I edited my original post as well

 

[CleverAdvisor]

Looking to see WAMC

Non-US IMG
Step 1 230
Step 2 234 🙁

Do I have a shot as some of the low tier IMG-heavy schools?

 

[Voyageaulongcours]

Hi everyone. US-IMG here.

I'll summarize my stats:

• freshly graduated (2021)
• Step 1/Step 2: 260+
• ECFMG certified
• 2 USCE (observerships at 2 top-10 hospitals in the USA) with speciality-specific lor (so I don't think I can use them for IM, they're not IM subspecialties)
• 8 research projects ( non-IM related)
• IM LOR from non-US country, 2 general LORs from non-US, non IM doctors
• others: volunteer +4, work+1, 2 hands-on electives in Europe (not IM)

I at least would like to aim for a university affiliated IM program. What are my chances? I'm being serious please.

 

[expicept]

Looking for some help rounding out my list of programs.

Mid tier USMD
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: 260
Class rank: 1st quartile
AOA: TBD
GHHS: Yes
Honors: 5/7 (including IM and surgery) + H in IM SubI
Research: Multiple first and middle author publications, posters, and presentations in non-IM field. In addition to two first author publications in an education journal prior to medical school.
ECs: Longitudinal involvement in my school’s community clinics and a few leadership positions.

Reaches:
UCSF
Stanford
Mayo MN
Vanderbilt
UTSW
University of Washington
UCLA
UCSD
WashU

Target:
UCI
USC
Cedars
Mayo AZ + FL
U Colorado
UAB
UF
Miami
Emory
UVA
OHSU
Baylor
Utah
CC
Case

Safeties:
UT Houston
UT Austin
U Arizona
Kaiser LA
Scripps
UCD
SLU

Aiming for a solid university IM program for PCC (Maybe cards?) fellowship that focuses on medical education. In addition to staying in the south or moving to the west coast. I worked in NY state and would like to avoid moving back to the NE if possible.

I know my step 1 and coming from a mid tier medical school will limit me with some programs at the top and unfortunately my school does not award senior AOA until right before apps go out. So I was hoping to get some advice on how AOA might affect my competitiveness for my reaches. In addition to adding or removing any programs from my list.

 

[Adjet]

Looking for some help rounding out my list of programs.

Mid tier USMD
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: 260
Class rank: 1st quartile
AOA: TBD
GHHS: Yes
Honors: 5/7 (including IM and surgery) + H in IM SubI
Research: Multiple first and middle author publications, posters, and presentations in non-IM field. In addition to two first author publications in an education journal prior to medical school.
ECs: Longitudinal involvement in my school’s community clinics and a few leadership positions.

Reaches:
UCSF
Stanford
Mayo MN
Vanderbilt
UTSW
University of Washington
UCLA
UCSD
WashU

Target:
UCI
USC
Cedars
Mayo AZ + FL
U Colorado
UAB
UF
Miami
Emory
UVA
OHSU
Baylor
Utah
CC
Case

Safeties:
UT Houston
UT Austin
U Arizona
Kaiser LA
Scripps
UCD
SLU

Aiming for a solid university IM program for PCC (Maybe cards?) fellowship that focuses on medical education. In addition to staying in the south or moving to the west coast. I worked in NY state and would like to avoid moving back to the NE if possible.

I know my step 1 and coming from a mid tier medical school will limit me with some programs at the top and unfortunately my school does not award senior AOA until right before apps go out. So I was hoping to get some advice on how AOA might affect my competitiveness for my reaches. In addition to adding or removing any programs from my list.

You should be able to interview decently well I think regardless of AOA given strong clinical grades/class rank and step scores should be within range at all those programs. You may be able to get interviews at a good number of 'reaches' without AOA (Mayo MN, WashU, UCSD, UTSW in particular), but I think AOA would make interview invites at most of those places a lock. UNC and Duke seem like they would fit your geographic criteria of being in the south, so not sure if there was a particular reason you excluded them. Mayo AZ and FL, CCF, Miami, UF, UCI, USC are more in the safety category.

 

[expicept]

You should be able to interview decently well I think regardless of AOA given strong clinical grades/class rank and step scores should be within range at all those programs. You may be able to get interviews at a good number of 'reaches' without AOA (Mayo MN, WashU, UCSD, UTSW in particular), but I think AOA would make interview invites at most of those places a lock. UNC and Duke seem like they would fit your geographic criteria of being in the south, so not sure if there was a particular reason you excluded them. Mayo AZ and FL, CCF, Miami, UF, UCI, USC are more in the safety category.

I forgot to add UNC to the list but I do intend to apply there. I was considering adding duke as well but I limit my number of reaches. Factoring in your advice, I will add them now. Thank you for the advice!

 

[Deecee2DO]

Looking for some help rounding out my list of programs.

Mid tier USMD
USMLE Step 1: 246
USMLE Step 2: 260
Class rank: 1st quartile
AOA: TBD
GHHS: Yes
Honors: 5/7 (including IM and surgery) + H in IM SubI
Research: Multiple first and middle author publications, posters, and presentations in non-IM field. In addition to two first author publications in an education journal prior to medical school.
ECs: Longitudinal involvement in my school’s community clinics and a few leadership positions.

Reaches:
UCSF
Stanford
Mayo MN
Vanderbilt
UTSW
University of Washington
UCLA
UCSD
WashU

Target:
UCI
USC
Cedars
Mayo AZ + FL
U Colorado
UAB
UF
Miami
Emory
UVA
OHSU
Baylor
Utah
CC
Case

Safeties:
UT Houston
UT Austin
U Arizona
Kaiser LA
Scripps
UCD
SLU

Aiming for a solid university IM program for PCC (Maybe cards?) fellowship that focuses on medical education. In addition to staying in the south or moving to the west coast. I worked in NY state and would like to avoid moving back to the NE if possible.

I know my step 1 and coming from a mid tier medical school will limit me with some programs at the top and unfortunately my school does not award senior AOA until right before apps go out. So I was hoping to get some advice on how AOA might affect my competitiveness for my reaches. In addition to adding or removing any programs from my list.

Im only an M4 myself but id imagine you have a pretty fair shot at those reaches with your step scores honoring almost all of your M3 clerkships and multiple pubs coming from MD school. Maybe add in BU Maryland Tufts and Pitt for targets and Northwestern for reach? I think youll match really well regardless good luck!

 

[deleted898021]

If each class only has 1-2 DO's, which he/ she is, it's a reach just by statistics. It's his/her money, but it's likely not worth it. Given my proximity to the process, my advice is just as salient as yours.

That’s a terrible way to go by it, the match is based on luck, for all we know Loyola and UIC interviewed significantly more DO’s but those DO’s matched somewhere else. If you look at all three years’ classes at Loyola and UIC there’s a fair amount of DO’s, that’s a DO friendly program. It’s not as high as 25%-50% those are usually like very low tier university IM or community or straight up former aoa programs.

 

[glovespurple]

School: mid-tier MD state school
Step 1: 260
Step 2: 265
AOA: yes
Class rank: top quartile
Clinical: honors in 6/7 (neurology - HP); honors IM sub-i
LORs: most likely two strong letters + one decent letter + chair's letter
Research: published basic science paper in college; dabbled in medical school, however none in internal medicine: may have one publication, potential 1 abstract; will have oral presentation from summer scholarship
ECs: club leadership, dabbled in 4-5 volunteer activities

Current List:
MGH
UCSF
Brigham and Women's
Duke
UTSW
Columbia
U Pennsylvania
U Washington
Northwestern U
NYU
UCLA
Mount Sinai
Beth Israel Deconess
Stanford
U Chicago
Cornell
UNC
USC
Boston U
Colorado U
UCSD
Thomas Jefferson
OHSU
Tufts
Georgetown
Brown
UCI
George Washington

Thought Process/Goals:
- would like to match at a strong academic institution in a major city (preferably on the coast); have strong interests in cardiology/pulm-cc/oncology
- am not sure how to gauge how competitive my app will be for the " top 20" as someone who isn't coming from a "top 20" school and has mostly non-published scattered research; my presumption is that the "big" 4 will be a reach if not out of the running
- with this said, would like help assessing what would be a "reach", "target", "safety", and whether or not my program list is realistic as it feels quite top heavy at the moment. (+ if there are any other programs I should add).

 

[deleted898021]

Weird question but would appreciate help, is it OK to apply to both the regular categorical and primary care track at the same program/institution? Is that looked down upon/issue??

 

[ecogfive]

Weird question but would appreciate help, is it OK to apply to both the regular categorical and primary care track at the same program/institution? Is that looked down upon/issue??

It's not considered weird at my institution. Many apply to both.

 

[Prehealth1011]

Most people interested in primary care apply to both tracks to increase their chances given that not a lot of programs have pc tracks/spots. It's common and expected

 

[deleted898021]

It's not considered weird at my institution. Many apply to both.

So if I get interviews from both tracks, would I have to rank them separately? If I change my mind and want to subspecilaize from the PC track is it looked down upon or harder to?

 

[ecogfive]

I'm not sure about ranking; you should reach out to program coordinators or ask during your interviews. There should be little-to-no difficulty subspecializing from the PC track, particularly if you are interested in a predominantly outpatient specialty. At my program, people in the PC track have gone into palliative care, nephrology, endocrinology, rheumatology, etc; if you are applying to GI, cardiology, or pulm/crit, you may have to explain your change-of-heart in your personal statement, but I doubt it's the end of the world.

 

[Deecee2DO]

So if I get interviews from both tracks, would I have to rank them separately? If I change my mind and want to subspecilaize from the PC track is it looked down upon or harder to?

Many residents Ive spoken with even at top programs have said that theyve applied both to increase their chances and many people in PC tracks go on to subspecialize even in Cards or GI. It just increases your chances its a smart move imo especially if youre pursuing a predominantly outpatient sub like Allergy, Rheum, Endo etc

 

[moneymikekif]

Annual WAMC:


4th year DO student from KY

Step 1: 230
Step 2: 258
COMLEX Level 1: 633
COMLEX Level 2: 682
Clerkships: Honored IM, FM, Peds,Psych, EM
Pass: OB, Surgery (School only does Honors and Pass)
Took a research year at Mayo and will end up with about 15-20 publications
LOR: Mayo Mentor who is big in Cards field, IM Attending, Generic Chair Letter from school, and EM Attending
Research: Close to 25-30ish publications (including Undergrad)
Volunteering/EXC: the usual clubs i guess
Gold Humanism Society

List in no particular order (

Kentucky
Lousiville
Ohio State
Cincy
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic Main
Jefferson
Georgetown
George Washington
Indiana University (Indianapolis)
Penn State
Penn
Brown
Dartmouth
U Florida
U Miami
Rush
Michigan State
Michigan
Mayo Rochester
U Minnesota
OHSU
Wisconsin
Iowa
UNC
Wake
Hofstra
Mt Auburn (Boston)
Henry Ford
Wayne State
Cook County
Yale
Loyola
Tennnessee

Plus a bunch of community

Thoughts? Obviously DO bias, but not sure if its too top heavy and if my step 1 will be a dealbreaker?

Thanks again!!!!

 

[ehwatsupdoc]

Hi everyone--

I'm an MS4 applying to neurology this cycle but will be applying to IM prelim programs. I was hoping to get some insight into my current list of programs to apply to and WAMC at the IM prelim programs here? (If prelims don't apply to this thread, I'll delete it--just let me know)

I am strictly targeting the northeast for personal reasons.

I am planning on an academic career so I am targeting mid and top tier academic programs for neurology and my IM prelim year.

Summary of my app:
US MD school ("low tier")
Step 1: low 240s
Step 2: 270s
3rd year grades: 3 passes, 2 high passes, 2 honors. Neurology was high pass, IM was honors.
Top tertile in overall class ranking (but unlikely AOA)
Decent research experience in an unrelated field (3 non first author publications, poster presentation, several other ongoing projects)
Other extracurriculars: solid, but nothing crazy special


List so far:
MGH/BWH
BIDMC
Boston Medical Center
Tufts
UMass
Brown
Dartmouth
Mount Sinai
Maine Medical Center
Einstein
NYU
Cornell
SUNY Downstate
Jefferson
Stony Brook
Temple
UConn
Vermont
Yale
Hofstra
Penn
Hopkins
Rochester

WAMC at the mid-tier and top-tier academic programs in the northeast?

Thanks in advance!

 

[gutonc]

School: mid-tier MD state school
Step 1: 260
Step 2: 265
AOA: yes
Class rank: top quartile
Clinical: honors in 6/7 (neurology - HP); honors IM sub-i
LORs: most likely two strong letters + one decent letter + chair's letter
Research: published basic science paper in college; dabbled in medical school, however none in internal medicine: may have one publication, potential 1 abstract; will have oral presentation from summer scholarship
ECs: club leadership, dabbled in 4-5 volunteer activities

Current List:
MGH
UCSF
Brigham and Women's
Duke
UTSW
Columbia
U Pennsylvania
U Washington
Northwestern U
NYU
UCLA
Mount Sinai
Beth Israel Deconess
Stanford
U Chicago
Cornell
UNC
USC
Boston U
Colorado U
UCSD
Thomas Jefferson
OHSU
Tufts
Georgetown
Brown
UCI
George Washington

Thought Process/Goals:
- would like to match at a strong academic institution in a major city (preferably on the coast); have strong interests in cardiology/pulm-cc/oncology
- am not sure how to gauge how competitive my app will be for the " top 20" as someone who isn't coming from a "top 20" school and has mostly non-published scattered research; my presumption is that the "big" 4 will be a reach if not out of the running
- with this said, would like help assessing what would be a "reach", "target", "safety", and whether or not my program list is realistic as it feels quite top heavy at the moment. (+ if there are any other programs I should add).

Roughly half of those programs will be donations to ERAS...the problem is that nobody can really tell you which half. For the Top X programs (and, let's be honest, you've pretty much listed them all here), you need some bling on your CV, sometimes a lot of bling. And your app is good, but not stellar. It's got 1-2 star bling, not 5 diamond bling.

You'll easily get 10 IIs from that list, maybe 15-20. Some will be obvious, some will be random AF. Like you, I had a pretty good, not stellar CV going into this process (PhD, AOA, mediocre state school, some pubs, fair steps, great clinical grades and LORs). I got UChicago but not NW, MGH but not Brigham, Cornell but not Columbia, MSSM but not NYU, UCLA and UCSD but not UCSF or Stanford...you get the picture.

Add:
Einstein
Jefferson
Yale
Iowa
Indiana
CCF
Case
tOSU
Rutgers-Whatever they call RWJ these days
Dartmouth
UMass (way better than any Boston program not affiliated with HMS IMO)
Maryland
Hopkins-Bayview
Utah
Wisconsin
UMinn
Mayo
Michigan
MSU
HFH
Emory
UAB
Wake
UTSA
UTH
Vandy

Throw those into the mix and I suspect you'll have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to interview offers. And who knows, you might find yourself enthralled with one of those landlocked, non-grandma programs and wind up staying there for the rest of your career.

 

[gutonc]

Hi everyone--

I'm an MS4 applying to neurology this cycle but will be applying to IM prelim programs. I was hoping to get some insight into my current list of programs to apply to and WAMC at the IM prelim programs here? (If prelims don't apply to this thread, I'll delete it--just let me know)

I am strictly targeting the northeast for personal reasons.

I am planning on an academic career so I am targeting mid and top tier academic programs for neurology and my IM prelim year.

Summary of my app:
US MD school ("low tier")
Step 1: low 240s
Step 2: 270s
3rd year grades: 3 passes, 2 high passes, 2 honors. Neurology was high pass, IM was honors.
Top tertile in overall class ranking (but unlikely AOA)
Decent research experience in an unrelated field (3 non first author publications, poster presentation, several other ongoing projects)
Other extracurriculars: solid, but nothing crazy special


List so far:
MGH/BWH
BIDMC
Boston Medical Center
Tufts
UMass
Brown
Dartmouth
Mount Sinai
Maine Medical Center
Einstein
NYU
Cornell
SUNY Downstate
Jefferson
Stony Brook
Temple
UConn
Vermont
Yale
Hofstra
Penn
Hopkins
Rochester

WAMC at the mid-tier and top-tier academic programs in the northeast?

Thanks in advance!

Dude(tte) - It's a prelim program, find the easiest one you can and get on with your real career.

 

[gutonc]

Annual WAMC:


4th year DO student from KY

Step 1: 230
Step 2: 258
COMLEX Level 1: 633
COMLEX Level 2: 682
Clerkships: Honored IM, FM, Peds,Psych, EM
Pass: OB, Surgery (School only does Honors and Pass)
Took a research year at Mayo and will end up with about 15-20 publications
LOR: Mayo Mentor who is big in Cards field, IM Attending, Generic Chair Letter from school, and EM Attending
Research: Close to 25-30ish publications (including Undergrad)
Volunteering/EXC: the usual clubs i guess
Gold Humanism Society

List in no particular order (

Kentucky
Lousiville
Ohio State
Cincy
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic Main
Jefferson
Georgetown
George Washington
Indiana University (Indianapolis)
Penn State
Penn
Brown
Dartmouth
U Florida
U Miami
Rush
Michigan State
Michigan
Mayo Rochester
U Minnesota
OHSU
Wisconsin
Iowa
UNC
Wake
Hofstra
Mt Auburn (Boston)
Henry Ford
Wayne State
Cook County
Yale
Loyola
Tennnessee

Plus a bunch of community

Thoughts? Obviously DO bias, but not sure if its too top heavy and if my step 1 will be a dealbreaker?

Thanks again!!!!

Being a DO is more of an issue than your Step 1. But neither of them are that big of an issue.

Your list is pretty evenly split between:
NFW
Reach
Target
Safety

There's an easy 10-15 interviews in your list and you could easily add another 20 programs by looking at other recs I've made in this thread.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Roughly half of those programs will be donations to ERAS...the problem is that nobody can really tell you which half. For the Top X programs (and, let's be honest, you've pretty much listed them all here), you need some bling on your CV, sometimes a lot of bling. And your app is good, but not stellar. It's got 1-2 star bling, not 5 diamond bling.

You'll easily get 10 IIs from that list, maybe 15-20. Some will be obvious, some will be random AF. Like you, I had a pretty good, not stellar CV going into this process (PhD, AOA, mediocre state school, some pubs, fair steps, great clinical grades and LORs). I got UChicago but not NW, MGH but not Brigham, Cornell but not Columbia, MSSM but not NYU, UCLA and UCSD but not UCSF or Stanford...you get the picture.

Add:
Einstein
Jefferson
Yale
Iowa
Indiana
CCF
Case
tOSU
Rutgers-Whatever they call RWJ these days
Dartmouth
UMass (way better than any Boston program not affiliated with HMS IMO)
Maryland
Hopkins-Bayview
Utah
Wisconsin
UMinn
Mayo
Michigan
MSU
HFH
Emory
UAB
Wake
UTSA
UTH
Vandy

Throw those into the mix and I suspect you'll have an embarrassment of riches when it comes to interview offers. And who knows, you might find yourself enthralled with one of those landlocked, non-grandma programs and wind up staying there for the rest of your career.

Out of curiosity how much better can this kids app get lol other than maybe research? It seems pretty damn good and yet some schools will still see his app as a donation? It reallly opens eyes as to how competitive this whole process really is. Kind of disturbing how perfect you really need to be lol. I mean is he better off coming from a T10 med school with avg scores/grades and baller research?

 

[Deecee2DO]

which is the good/real Monte? Einstein philly, PA or NY?

 

[gutonc]

Out of curiosity how much better can this kids app get lol other than maybe research? It seems pretty damn good and yet some schools will still see his app as a donation? It reallly opens eyes as to how competitive this whole process really is. Kind of disturbing how perfect you really need to be lol. I mean is he better off coming from a T10 med school with avg scores/grades and baller research?

The first 15-20 programs on that user's list are the same that every other AOA, all H, 250+, Big 4/Top 10, 5 first author pubs applicant is applying to. Like I said, it's a great application, but it's going to be lost in a sea of greater applications.

 

[gutonc]

which is the good/real Monte? Einstein philly, PA or NY?

AECOM in NY. Einstein Philly is a good community IM program. I'm not aware of it's hem/onc fellowship.

 

[moneymikekif]

Being a DO is more of an issue than your Step 1. But neither of them are that big of an issue.

Your list is pretty evenly split between:
NFW
Reach
Target
Safety

There's an easy 10-15 interviews in your list and you could easily add another 20 programs by looking at other recs I've made in this thread.

Hey thanks for the response! Just for my own edification, I would assume the breakdown would be similar to this:


NFW:
Jefferson
Penn
Brown
Darmouth
Michigan
OHSU
Iowa
Wisconsin
Yale
Mayo? (But working here, so idk?)

For these instead of giving money to ERAS, rather pick another 10 reaches/targets

Reach:
Ohio State
Case
Florida
Rush
Wake
Loyola
Tennessee

Target:
Cincinnati
Cleveland CLinic Main (maybe a reach not sure)
Penn State
Kentucky
Louisville
Georgetown (maybe a reach not sure)
Indianan (maybe a reach not sure)
George Washington
Michigan State

Safety:
Everyone else

I know you mentioned some schools to identify based upon prior postings, but are there any that jump out to you that I should def apply for?

Thanks again!

 

[Deecee2DO]

The first 15-20 programs on that user's list are the same that every other AOA, all H, 250+, Big 4/Top 10, 5 first author pubs applicant is applying to. Like I said, it's a great application, but it's going to be lost in a sea of greater applications.

Ahhh ok makes sense lol question about pubs-how are second author pubs viewed? I did probably 90% of the work on all of my pubs and one of the residents on the research team im on basically did zero work and got first author (seniority is great but it sucks for me). Is this common? Is second author seen the same as any middle author?

 

[deleted898021]

Hey thanks for the response! Just for my own edification, I would assume the breakdown would be similar to this:


NFW:
Jefferson
Penn
Brown
Darmouth
Michigan
OHSU
Iowa
Wisconsin
Yale
Mayo? (But working here, so idk?)

For these instead of giving money to ERAS, rather pick another 10 reaches/targets

Reach:
Ohio State
Case
Florida
Rush
Wake
Loyola
Tennessee

Target:
Cincinnati
Cleveland CLinic Main (maybe a reach not sure)
Penn State
Kentucky
Louisville
Georgetown (maybe a reach not sure)
Indianan (maybe a reach not sure)
George Washington
Michigan State

Safety:
Everyone else

I know you mentioned some schools to identify based upon prior postings, but are there any that jump out to you that I should def apply for?

Thanks again!

I think loyola and UF-gainesville are targets, as would be say USF-tampa? Indiana is target , UT memphis/Nashville/Knoxville isn't a reach and also target..

 

[gutonc]

Hey thanks for the response! Just for my own edification, I would assume the breakdown would be similar to this:


NFW:
Jefferson
Penn
Brown
Darmouth
Michigan
OHSU
Iowa
Wisconsin
Yale
Mayo? (But working here, so idk?)

For these instead of giving money to ERAS, rather pick another 10 reaches/targets

Reach:
Ohio State
Case
Florida
Rush
Wake
Loyola
Tennessee

Target:
Cincinnati
Cleveland CLinic Main (maybe a reach not sure)
Penn State
Kentucky
Louisville
Georgetown (maybe a reach not sure)
Indianan (maybe a reach not sure)
George Washington
Michigan State

Safety:
Everyone else

I know you mentioned some schools to identify based upon prior postings, but are there any that jump out to you that I should def apply for?

Thanks again!

Penn, Mich, Yale and maybe Mayo and tOSU are NFW. The rest in your list are Reaches, but worth it.

TBH, nobody, especially not me, knows exactly which of those places would be willing to give you a shot so if you can afford it, it hurts nothing but your ego to apply.

 

[Deecee2DO]

@gutonc which of the LSU campuses is the real/academic LSU? baton rouge, shreveport, new orleans or lafayette

 

[deleted898021]

@gutonc which of the LSU campuses is the real/academic LSU? baton rouge, shreveport, new orleans or lafayette

Shreveport