Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[mrheisenberg]

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Though not a solid application like you guys, here's mine:

-School: South American, 2 years after graduation.
-Steps: 255/260, Passed
-USCE: 3 months of observership in the Houston area by Americlerkship.
-LORs: I don't think they're solid...
-Research: 2 about Chagas disease in my country.
-90th percentile in my class.


I want to match in a program that offers H-1B and cards fellowship, without thinking in the tier. My main options are UTMB, UAMS, the nevada program, a few ones in florida and Missouri. Of course, I'll apply to a broad number of programs even if they don't have H1B or cards, and programs in the northeast too, but those are my main options. I just want to know if I do have a chance of matching in those programs/a good program at all, because I get nervous each time I see monster applications in the forums and my USCE and LORs are from Americlerkship observerships, It was impossible for me to get a clerkship (snail medschool for paperwork)....

WAMC?

Your major issues are your lack of mentors and your lack of hands-on experience.. These are huge red flags! So apply really broadly and you might get lucky.. I don't think that UAMS and UTMB have a significant number of IMGs, they're very good true mid-tier programs that tend to recruit people like them.. Good AMGs, who are seeking for a great training but are not necessarily fond of research and have some ties with the geographical area.. So it's pretty rare to find non-american IMGs in these places.. Use your South American background and seek for programs in the New England/New York/Cali/Florida/NM/AZ/Tx regions that have a ton of latinos..

 

[kk0319]

Thank you for your answer. Checking FREIDA and IMG friendly prgrams lists made by users, I've found that the percentage of IMG residents in UAMS and UTMB are like 50% and 30% respectively, so those programs do accept IMG (if they accept applicants with only observerships as USCE, idk though). Also, people from my country who've matched told me that while hands on USCE does improve your chances, there are so many seats that you can match even with 3-mo observerships. Of course, if I want to match into those programs or in Las Vegas Program I have to be more competitive and get hands on USCE... But, my question is... Do you think I have a chance to at least get an interview in those programs? I'm sure that with that score, I'll manage to match in a lower program one way or another, but I want a good program to jump towards cards...

 

[ArkansasMed]

Yeah, I also thought that medical school grades/transcript doesn't matter much either (as long as there are no red flags). Isn't it mostly about clerkship grades/comments on the MSPE? So do a lot of mid-tier and top-tier places start sending out invites after Oct. 1st when the MSPE is uploaded? Also, do programs actually send out rejection emails (And if they do, how soon? Nov./Dec.?) or do they just stay quiet and not invite the person for an interview?

They essentially pool all the people from each school when the MSPE comes in and pick from a list who is good enough to come. You are compared against the applicant pool and also the cohort from your school. Tough to say what each school looks at. If I had to assume the MSPE even if it doesn't "rank" you the language in it is probably super telling and they just filter people accordingly. Probably use letters (not standardized so slightly less important unless from an esteemed colleague) to confirm suspicions from MSPE and filter more with scores / some research-extracurriculars that make the person a better fit/more interesting.

 

[jupp33]

I am not applying this year but was wondering - how important is step 2 CK for receiving interviews in IM? Unfortunately my schedule is such that the only times I'll be able to take CK are in late July/early Aug (and potentially having the score on my application) or in December. I scored above 260 on step 1 but I've heard that some programs like to see a step 2 score before granting interviews. Thanks!

 

[ThePianist]

No interviews yet either 🙁

 

[mrheisenberg]

Thank you for your answer. Checking FREIDA and IMG friendly prgrams lists made by users, I've found that the percentage of IMG residents in UAMS and UTMB are like 50% and 30% respectively, so those programs do accept IMG (if they accept applicants with only observerships as USCE, idk though). Also, people from my country who've matched told me that while hands on USCE does improve your chances, there are so many seats that you can match even with 3-mo observerships. Of course, if I want to match into those programs or in Las Vegas Program I have to be more competitive and get hands on USCE... But, my question is... Do you think I have a chance to at least get an interview in those programs? I'm sure that with that score, I'll manage to match in a lower program one way or another, but I want a good program to jump towards cards...

Seriously dude? 50% and 30%? How accurate is this list? Don't worry I did the job for you and googled UTMB and UAMS Internal Medicine Residency. Here's the links for the current roosters:
https://www.utmb.edu/internalmedicine/residents/people/residents.asp

http://intmedicine.uams.edu/residency/mp/residents/

For each program, there's like 2 IMGs for the entire programs.. i'm trying to give you a realistic view of the process, 10 years ago it would've been a piece of cake for an img with reasonable scores to get into these programs.. But the number of US MD/DO grads increased significantly and these guys from the baby med schools are applying ultra broadly.. Also, since the obamacare thing and the press in favor of generating more primary care specialties, IM is becoming a desirable residency to US grads.. Quite the opposite of what's happening to anesthesia or GS for instance.. So, be prepared to that and value every interview you get.. Hard times dude!

 

[nvdoc]

I am a graduate of the UTMB IM program. Loved that place tremendously. They have seriously cut down on IMGs in the last couple of years, as IM is getting more and more competive. I'd like to add most of the IMGs you see on there are Neuro - Prelims. I would still apply though...go for broke. For anyone else out there UTMB has a great mix of research, clinical training and fellowship match. Environment is super laid back and I had awesome co-residents. I don't think the same can be said of many of the other programs up in the Medical Center.

 

[throwaway1939]

Med school rank: low tier MD
USMLE Step 1/Step 2: 260s/260s
Class rank: top 10%
AOA: no
Honors: HP in psych/ob, otherwise H.
ECs: Masters in Microbiology w/ thesis, a few poster presentations. no research in medical school. some teaching at university/community college level

So here's my submitted program list; is it too top heavy? any programs should I be aware of in the midwest/east coast region? thanks all.
Advocate Lutheran General Hospital Program, IL
Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center Program, MA
Boston University Medical Center Program, MA
Brigham and Women's Hospital Program, MA
Brown University Program, RI
Dartmouth-Hitchcock Medical Center Program, NH
Duke University Hospital Program, NC
Johns Hopkins University Program, MD
Johns Hopkins University/Bayview Medical Center Program, MD
Loyola University Program, IL
Massachusetts General Hospital Program, MA
Mayo Clinic College of Medicine (Rochester) Program, MN
Ohio State University Hospital Program, OH
Oregon Health & Science University Program, OR
Pennsylvania Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania Health System Program, PA
Rush University Medical Center Program, IL
UPMC Medical Education Program, PA
University of Chicago (NorthShore) Program, IL
University of Chicago Program, IL
University of Colorado Program, CO
University of Illinois College of Medicine at Chicago Program, IL
University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics Program, IA
University of Michigan Program, MI
University of Minnesota Program, MN
University of North Carolina Hospitals Program, NC
University of Pennsylvania Program, PA
University of Virginia Program, VA
University of Washington Program, WA
University of Wisconsin Program, WI
Vanderbilt University Medical Center Program, TN
Washington University/B-JH/SLCH Consortium Program, MO
Yale-New Haven Medical Center Program, CT

Not getting much love from the above; sitting on 9 interviews, nearly all safeties. The only interview from a top program so far is UVa. No red flags that I'm aware of; every comment on my Dean's letter is solid. LORs should be pretty good. Should I be concerned; what triggered me is that Brown is full now, Yale is filling up fast, Duke is nearly full, etc etc? Is it still early or are the UMich/WashU/Vandy/UPMC tier of programs filling up with little hope of getting an invite? Should I add more programs or just be patient?

 

[AndreasVesalius]

Not getting much love from the above; sitting on 9 interviews, nearly all safeties. The only interview from a top program so far is UVa. No red flags that I'm aware of; every comment on my Dean's letter is solid. LORs should be pretty good. Should I be concerned; what triggered me is that Brown is full now, Yale is filling up fast, Duke is nearly full, etc etc? Is it still early or are the UMich/WashU/Vandy/UPMC tier of programs filling up with little hope of getting an invite? Should I add more programs or just be patient?

That is an extremely strong application stat wise. I feel like there is something else going on. I have friends from low ranked medical schools with much weaker stats than those getting interviews at place like Umich/Vandy/Washu/UPMC. How sure are you about no weaknesses in LORs/MSPE's?

Umich/Vandy are both pretty close to full on interview broker. Pitt and WashU don't use interview broker, so I am not sure how full they are. I wouldn't give up on interview though, you can get in off waitlists and such.

All of that being said, your list looks pretty good. You could consider adding a few more programs in the mid range , but if you have 9 IV already, I'm not sure I would change anything. Baylor might be a good one (not released IV to my knowledge), but your list seems to be avoiding the south.

 

[throwaway1939]

That is an extremely strong application stat wise. I feel like there is something else going on. I have friends from low ranked medical schools with much weaker stats than those getting interviews at place like Umich/Vandy/Washu/UPMC. How sure are you about no weaknesses in LORs/MSPE's?

Umich/Vandy are both pretty close to full on interview broker. Pitt and WashU don't use interview broker, so I am not sure how full they are. I wouldn't give up on interview though, you can get in off waitlists and such.

All of that being said, your list looks pretty good. You could consider adding a few more programs in the mid range , but if you have 9 IV already, I'm not sure I would change anything. Baylor might be a good one (not released IV to my knowledge), but your list seems to be avoiding the south.

We're allowed to see our Dean's Letter beforehand, so I was able to read the comments and they all were good; I couldn't detect any hidden language or double speak in them. My LOR writers are mostly faculty in our medicine department. I was able to see one LOR from my sub-i and it was pretty good as far as I can tell (performed at level of intern, team player, good fund of knowledge, etc etc).

The only red flag I can think of is that I dropped out of a program ~7-8 years ago then finished my MS at a different program.

So very frustrating. I'd be happy at a few programs I've gotten interviews from (outside looking in at least), but it's nice to think what could have been....

Any suggestions on additional programs I could add? I'm not too familiar with the South, being mostly a northern boy for my life. Looking to stay academic and interested in Cards (among other things....)

 

[AndreasVesalius]

We're allowed to see our Dean's Letter beforehand, so I was able to read the comments and they all were good; I couldn't detect any hidden language or double speak in them. My LOR writers are mostly faculty in our medicine department. I was able to see one LOR from my sub-i and it was pretty good as far as I can tell (performed at level of intern, team player, good fund of knowledge, etc etc).

The only red flag I can think of is that I dropped out of a program ~7-8 years ago before finishing my MS at a different program.

So very frustrating. I'd be happy at a few programs I've gotten interviews from (outside looking in at least), but it's nice to think what could have been....

Any suggestions on additional programs I could add? I'm not too familiar with the South, being mostly a northern boy for my life. Looking to stay academic and interested in Cards (among other things....)

You could consider in Philly Drexel, Temple, TJ. In the south, Baylor, UAB, Emory, UTSW (mostly full on interview broker), UT Houston. Also UColorado, UFlorida, Tufts, UMaryland, Indiana, Case Western (mostly full), Cleveland Clinic.

All of these programs would have been really good chances for you, but just be aware that applying now will count against you, so I'm not sure how many IV you'll get.

 

[throwaway1939]

You could consider in Philly Drexel, Temple, TJ. In the south, Baylor, UAB, Emory, UTSW (mostly full on interview broker), UT Houston. Also UColorado, UFlorida, Tufts, UMaryland, Indiana, Case Western (mostly full), Cleveland Clinic.

All of these programs would have been really good chances for you, but just be aware that applying now will count against you, so I'm not sure how many IV you'll get.

thanks; I've already received IV from Loyola, Rush, UIC, U Iowa, Ohio State, UVa, UColorado, Dartmouth and Advocate Lutheran. I feel this is a good mix for me and I'd be more than happy at a few programs, but I had much higher hopes, such as JHU/UMich/WashU/Duke. Maybe I should temper my expectations for now.

The programs you suggested are mostly in that same tier that I've already received IVs at, so I think I'll sit tight now. That being said, do think it's worthwhile to email/call programs and see what the status of my application is?

Thanks for your help!

 

[GOLDMARK]

thanks; I've already received IV from Loyola, Rush, UIC, U Iowa, Ohio State, UVa, UColorado, Dartmouth and Advocate Lutheran. I feel this is a good mix for me and I'd be more than happy at a few programs, but I had much higher hopes, such as JHU/UMich/WashU/Duke. Maybe I should temper my expectations for now.

The programs you suggested are mostly in that same tier that I've already received IVs at, so I think I'll sit tight now. That being said, do think it's worthwhile to email/call programs and see what the status of my application is?

Thanks for your help!

If you still have a copy of your Dean's letter, maybe have your advisor and PD read over it to ensure there are no hidden negatives that you're missing. I would also recommend asking your Dean to read the LORs to ensure there's nothing negative in any of them. I am a little bit confused though. You have an MS but didn't publish anything during that time? That might be a turn off for some research heavy places. That's all I can think of since you are definitely a spectacular applicant from a numbers POV and based on just those, I would imagine some places like UMich that are number-centric would have definitely taken a bite.

Aside from that, I also don't think it's a good idea to add more schools (would feel like wasting money at this point).

I think it's worthwhile to contact the few programs you're really interested in and that you know are near full. Others may differ, but I always advocate a proactive approach. The worse they can do is say no or ignore you. It won't be the end of the world. But if you don't contact them, you'll never know.

 

[TheAristocrats]

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[copperpenny189]

Aristocrats, What sort of red flag statements did you pick up on that you did not see initially? I am just wondering how subtle these statements are/ beginning to feel paranoid (maybe?)

 

[TheAristocrats]

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[throwaway1939]

I'd wager that academic IM is way more competitive than something like ER, given that some upper tier programs are flatout rejecting some pretty competitive applicants here. I think even a couple years ago, 250 from a top 20 would not have gotten someone rejected from UNC. That's something I'd expect from like JHU or MGH. FWIW, our match coordinator says I have no red flags and my advisor said my MSPE is very competitive without hidden negatives. Not sure what to make of this year's cycle, but I definitely wasn't expecting this.

 

[AndreasVesalius]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes anyway.

I consider myself a competitive applicant for IM. I am couples matching with my fiance, who is a less competitive, but still good. I have been successful in getting her interviews after I am offered an interview including pretty good places.

However, she was rejected from UNC, while I got an IV. Seeing as I have nothing to lose (I won't go there or to that area without her), is it completely stupid for me to still ask for an interview for her? I know there's 99+% chance they will say no and/or laugh at me, but I plan on withdrawing anyway so I'm not sure what I have to lose.

What do you guys think?

 

[GOLDMARK]

I'd wager that academic IM is way more competitive than something like ER, given that some upper tier programs are flatout rejecting some pretty competitive applicants here. I think even a couple years ago, 250 from a top 20 would not have gotten someone rejected from UNC. That's something I'd expect from like JHU or MGH. FWIW, our match coordinator says I have no red flags and my advisor said my MSPE is very competitive without hidden negatives. Not sure what to make of this year's cycle, but I definitely wasn't expecting this.

The reason all of us keep bringing up red flags is because it's hard for any of us to fathom not getting top 20 interviews with everything you have going for you. Maybe it's because IM is becoming more competitive but students with stats less than yours are getting those invites, which doesn't quite make sense either. It's been a frustrating cycle for a lot of people I guess.

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes anyway.

I consider myself a competitive applicant for IM (Step 1 265+, Step 2 280+, all Honors at a top 10 med school, AOA, 5 pubs, 8 presentations, good MSPE and LORs). I am couples matching with my fiance, who is a less competitive, but still good (Step 1 high 230s, CK 250s, pass in medicine, unranked medical school, 5 or 6 presentations). I have been successful in getting her interviews after I am offered an interview including pretty good places like WashU, UChicago, Umich, UTSW, Mayo, Case, Pitt, Vandy etc.

However, she was rejected from UNC, while I got an IV. Seeing as I have nothing to lose (I won't go there or to that area without her), is it completely stupid for me to still ask for an interview for her? I know there's 99+% chance they will say no and/or laugh at me, but I plan on withdrawing anyway so I'm not sure what I have to lose.

What do you guys think?

I would advise against it because she's already gotten a rejection. But maybe when you're sending the withdrawal you can cite your SO being rejected as the reason and see if that makes an impact. I do think this strategy is fantastic for places she is still in the running for.

 

[AndreasVesalius]

The reason all of us keep bringing up red flags is because it's hard for any of us to fathom not getting top 20 interviews with everything you have going for you. Maybe it's because IM is becoming more competitive but students with stats less than yours are getting those invites, which doesn't quite make sense either. It's been a frustrating cycle for a lot of people I guess.


I would advise against it because she's already gotten a rejection. But maybe when you're sending the withdrawal you can cite your SO being rejected as the reason and see if that makes an impact. I do think this strategy is fantastic for places she is still in the running for.

Thanks for the advice goldmark.

 

[copperpenny189]

All speculation of course, but I have one of those backhanded "...but he/she's quiet" type of comments in there from an attending who openly disliked me. I actually asked about it multiple times pre-application season and was advised it wouldn't matter since everything else is overwhelmingly positive. Maybe that's true for most places but if you're trying to get interviews at top 20 programs, now I'm not so sure.

It is more subtle than I'm making it sound in this post, so I guess just look for any comments that could in any way be interpreted as negative, especially about temperament perhaps. That said, I don't really know why my invites are what they are. Could be something else entirely, or just luck.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[uriyama]

Med school rank: top 10 US Med School
USMLE Step 1: high 230s
USMLE Step 2: 260s
USMLE CS: not taken
Class rank: top quartile (but barely)
AOA: no
Honors: Honors in Medicine, peds, family, neuro, psych; HP in surgery, OB
Research: One case report, one clinical trial second author, and a couple pubs in undergrad; currently taking year off for research
LOR: should be solid
Extracurriculars: Volunteering, interest groups, typical stuff but nothing amazing, no med school awards

Applying to: academic centers in NE, midwest, SE, maybe some west coast

Would hope to get into a top-2o or comparable program, though concerned low step 1 score

 

[throwaway1939]

The reason all of us keep bringing up red flags is because it's hard for any of us to fathom not getting top 20 interviews with everything you have going for you. Maybe it's because IM is becoming more competitive but students with stats less than yours are getting those invites, which doesn't quite make sense either. It's been a frustrating cycle for a lot of people I guess.

So I was invited for an interview at JHU & OHSU (and able to schedule one lol), which alleviates a lot of stress and worries about my application. I think it's a very competitive year in IM and that's why I didn't get as much love as I thought I would.

I did get rejected from Yale like 5 minutes after that JHU invite though, so who knows what programs really want....

 

[BertMacklinFBI]

Med school rank: top 10 US Med School
USMLE Step 1: high 230s
USMLE Step 2: 260s
USMLE CS: not taken
Class rank: top quartile (but barely)
AOA: no
Honors: Honors in Medicine, peds, family, neuro, psych; HP in surgery, OB
Research: One case report, one clinical trial second author, and a couple pubs in undergrad; currently taking year off for research
LOR: should be solid
Extracurriculars: Volunteering, interest groups, typical stuff but nothing amazing, no med school awards

Applying to: academic centers in NE, midwest, SE, maybe some west coast

Would hope to get into a top-2o or comparable program, though concerned low step 1 score

Your Step 2 is good, but a top twenty may not be a guarantee. My app was the same as yours two years ago and I got interviewed at 50% of the upper tier Midwestern programs, and no east coast love. My research was lacking though, but I had AOA. You'll match into a good medicine program, I would bet top 35 without difficulty. Medicine has gotten competitive from what I hear.

 

[jesok]

So I was invited for an interview at JHU & OHSU (and able to schedule one lol), which alleviates a lot of stress and worries about my application. I think it's a very competitive year in IM and that's why I didn't get as much love as I thought I would.

I did get rejected from Yale like 5 minutes after that JHU invite though, so who knows what programs really want....

I mean it would be kind of odd if the top 10 or 20 or whatever programs invited the same 300-400 people to interview... It's a good thing they don't.
The other thing I've noticed from past years at my school is the evidence of active productive research (i.e. during med school) really sets people apart. Not saying that a lack of it is a deal breaker, because obviously it's not, but it can add to an app.

 

[buonassezia]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes anyway.

I consider myself a competitive applicant for IM (Step 1 265+, Step 2 280+, all Honors at a top 10 med school, AOA, 5 pubs, 8 presentations, good MSPE and LORs). I am couples matching with my fiance, who is a less competitive, but still good (Step 1 high 230s, CK 250s, pass in medicine, unranked medical school, 5 or 6 presentations). I have been successful in getting her interviews after I am offered an interview including pretty good places like WashU, UChicago, Umich, UTSW, Mayo, Case, Pitt, Vandy etc.

However, she was rejected from UNC, while I got an IV. Seeing as I have nothing to lose (I won't go there or to that area without her), is it completely stupid for me to still ask for an interview for her? I know there's 99+% chance they will say no and/or laugh at me, but I plan on withdrawing anyway so I'm not sure what I have to lose.

What do you guys think?

Good question, sweet stats. I caution you, however, that in this post you likely make yourself entirely identifiable, which you may wish to avoid doing to keep your poker face and not divulge to all of your programs where else you have been invited. Or else the middle tier guys online may get the idea you will definitely ditch them for Hopkins, so probably better to remove this info.

 

[ArkansasMed]

So I was invited for an interview at JHU & OHSU (and able to schedule one lol), which alleviates a lot of stress and worries about my application. I think it's a very competitive year in IM and that's why I didn't get as much love as I thought I would.

I did get rejected from Yale like 5 minutes after that JHU invite though, so who knows what programs really want....

Yeah I dunno. It's really a crap shoot. It also depends on the other people interviewing from your program. There was someone from my year who applied with your stats and got every single interview. Maybe it's your med school rep or even that they just don't think you'd leave your area of the world to attend their program.

No one reads those stupid small details of the MSPE. Just the medicine one and then where you ranked. It's too long and elusive.

I can also see your personal statement screwing you. I have seen people's applications myself and totally get bored or turned off by apps by what they say. What exactly did you say in it? If you didn't mention the words or phrase that highlights a career in "academic medicine" then a lot of the top programs may pass on you. If you brought up something sensitive then they may not take a chance on you either. An example would be talking about stuff like having ADHD or depression and how you overcame it. Stuff like this is just a huge red flag... And people do it all the time. Not the time and place, even if it was a great accomplishment.

Also, if your application doesn't have something interesting about it then it could get passed up. It's called the American Idol Effect. People fall in love with people who have cool stories or did cool stuff.

 

[ArkansasMed]

Good question, sweet stats. I caution you, however, that in this post you likely make yourself entirely identifiable, which you may wish to avoid doing to keep your poker face and not divulge to all of your programs where else you have been invited. Or else the middle tier guys online may get the idea you will definitely ditch them for Hopkins, so probably better to remove this info.

No one checks this website that religiously. They review thousands of apps.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Yeah I dunno. It's really a crap shoot. It also depends on the other people interviewing from your program. There was someone from my year who applied with your stats and got every single interview. Maybe it's your med school rep or even that they just don't think you'd leave your area of the world to attend their program.

No one reads those stupid small details of the MSPE. Just the medicine one and then where you ranked. It's too long and elusive.

I can also see your personal statement screwing you. I have seen people's applications myself and totally get bored or turned off by apps by what they say. What exactly did you say in it? If you didn't mention the words or phrase that highlights a career in "academic medicine" then a lot of the top programs may pass on you. If you brought up something sensitive then they may not take a chance on you either. An example would be talking about stuff like having ADHD or depression and how you overcame it. Stuff like this is just a huge red flag... And people do it all the time. Not the time and place, even if it was a great accomplishment.

Also, if your application doesn't have something interesting about it then it could get passed up. It's called the American Idol Effect. People fall in love with people who have cool stories or did cool stuff.

damn I gotta create a cool story for my fellowship apps next year. Guess I can't write I wanna save the world or help people anymore T_T

 

[buonassezia]

No one checks this website that religiously. They review thousands of apps.

Most programs, no. But there are certainly more than a couple program directors who frequent these threads and if i were one, I'd immediately recognize an applicant I was likely to be ranking highly, couples matching from a top 10 with an >280 step 2 score, and that checks out with x exact number of papers and posters. I'd be as curious and nervous about how they were planning on ranking my program as they were about rankings, and it'd be great to know from U Wherever that my candidate was probably just going to Hopkins. Just sayin. If I were the applicant I wouldn't want to take that chance of recognition, as he is likely to be a person of interest to programs this interview season.

 

[gutonc]

Most programs, no. But there are certainly more than a couple program directors who frequent these threads and if i were one, I'd immediately recognize an applicant I was likely to be ranking highly, couples matching from a top 10 with an >280 step 2 score, and that checks out with x exact number of papers and posters. I'd be as curious and nervous about how they were planning on ranking my program as they were about rankings, and it'd be great to know from U Wherever that my candidate was probably just going to Hopkins. Just sayin. If I were the applicant I wouldn't want to take that chance of recognition, as he is likely to be a person of interest to programs this interview season.

No you wouldn't. You'd be so busy with the 1000+ apps you got for your 30 spots that you'd be lucky to remember your own kids' names.

Stop being so alarmist.

 

[HelpPleaseMD]

Most programs, no. But there are certainly more than a couple program directors who frequent these threads and if i were one, I'd immediately recognize an applicant I was likely to be ranking highly, couples matching from a top 10 with an >280 step 2 score, and that checks out with x exact number of papers and posters. I'd be as curious and nervous about how they were planning on ranking my program as they were about rankings, and it'd be great to know from U Wherever that my candidate was probably just going to Hopkins. Just sayin. If I were the applicant I wouldn't want to take that chance of recognition, as he is likely to be a person of interest to programs this interview season.

let's say they do recognize him. what incentive do they have of ranking him lower because of his preferences? If hes a superstar hes a superstar.

 

[tantacles]

let's say they do recognize him. what incentive do they have of ranking him lower because of his preferences? If hes a superstar hes a superstar.

Answer: None. I realize your question is rhetorical. You rank candidates in order of preference just as candidates rank your institution in order of preference; that's just how it works.

 

[AndreasVesalius]

Most programs, no. But there are certainly more than a couple program directors who frequent these threads and if i were one, I'd immediately recognize an applicant I was likely to be ranking highly, couples matching from a top 10 with an >280 step 2 score, and that checks out with x exact number of papers and posters. I'd be as curious and nervous about how they were planning on ranking my program as they were about rankings, and it'd be great to know from U Wherever that my candidate was probably just going to Hopkins. Just sayin. If I were the applicant I wouldn't want to take that chance of recognition, as he is likely to be a person of interest to programs this interview season.

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate caution as much as anyone. I did edit my post to make it less identifiable. Nevertheless, if PD's are as busy the PD's I've seen at my institution, I think they have better things to do than go on this forum. With regards to how I would rank anyone, I think it's a totally fallacy that the big four are automatically the best place to train and that everyone who had the chance would go there no matter what. Plus, I assume many PD's assume that competitive applicants are interviewing at multiple good places just like each institution is interview multiple people. Additionally, I think people recognize that because I am couples matching it's very likely I could end up at a place lower than my stats might suggest, so I think programs would be eager for such a situation.

Answer: None. I realize your question is rhetorical. You rank candidates in order of preference just as candidates rank your institution in order of preference; that's just how it works.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I've heard from PD's that among PD circles programs like to brag about how far down their list they went, so they might rank a person lower if they really felt they weren't going there. Not sure how it's true, but it was one of my LoR's who told me that.

 

[buonassezia]

Ok, fair. All good points above.

 

[Pakku-man]

AMG
Med School: Mid-Tier Southeast
Step 1: 220s, Step 2: 240s
Rank: 4th quartile
AOA: no
Rotations: passes
Research: 4 publications
LORs: Strong Letters
Applied to many schools in the Midwest and southeast.

 

[ArkansasMed]

Thanks for the advice, I appreciate caution as much as anyone. I did edit my post to make it less identifiable. Nevertheless, if PD's are as busy the PD's I've seen at my institution, I think they have better things to do than go on this forum. With regards to how I would rank anyone, I think it's a totally fallacy that the big four are automatically the best place to train and that everyone who had the chance would go there no matter what. Plus, I assume many PD's assume that competitive applicants are interviewing at multiple good places just like each institution is interview multiple people. Additionally, I think people recognize that because I am couples matching it's very likely I could end up at a place lower than my stats might suggest, so I think programs would be eager for such a situation.




I don't think this is necessarily true. I've heard from PD's that among PD circles programs like to brag about how far down their list they went, so they might rank a person lower if they really felt they weren't going there. Not sure how it's true, but it was one of my LoR's who told me that.

I look at ranking applicants like playing fantasy football. You want the best team possible. It's really doubtful that people will completely flip their rankings for a love letter or if someone ranks them. Would you take Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers even if Alex begged you to play for him? No way. It only really works when you are compairing players like Aaron Rodgers vs Tom Brady, then the applicant who expresses more interest may move up the list. You match at the program that was the best fit for you.

 

[AndreasVesalius]

I look at ranking applicants like playing fantasy football. You want the best team possible. It's really doubtful that people will completely flip their rankings for a love letter or if someone ranks them. Would you take Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers even if Alex begged you to play for him? No way. It only really works when you are compairing players like Aaron Rodgers vs Tom Brady, then the applicant who expresses more interest may move up the list. You match at the program that was the best fit for you.

I agree with you overall, but I think small movements up and down based on stated/perceived interest could still be the difference between matching or not matching, especially at places that don't go too far down their lists

 

[criznazy53]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but wanted to get your opinion on this situation from an academic IM program:
"Being asked by the interview coordinator if you want to meet with any of the faculty to discuss research."

Is this an opportunity for you to "sell" a faculty member on your research background/skill set, or is this an opportunity to see what projects they have to offer and see what may interest you?

Is it uncommon for applicants to not meet with a faculty member? Is it going to hurt you if you don't meet with someone?

What if you feel that your basic science research and/or clinical research may not fit with a faculty member?(i.e did research in a different specialty outside of internal medicine during medical school) What do you advise?

Did you meet with faculty about research during your interview?

 

[mrheisenberg]

Not sure if this is the right thread, but wanted to get your opinion on this situation from an academic IM program:
"Being asked by the interview coordinator if you want to meet with any of the faculty to discuss research."

Is this an opportunity for you to "sell" a faculty member on your research background/skill set, or is this an opportunity to see what projects they have to offer and see what may interest you?

Is it uncommon for applicants to not meet with a faculty member? Is it going to hurt you if you don't meet with someone?

What if you feel that your basic science research and/or clinical research may not fit with a faculty member?(i.e did research in a different specialty outside of internal medicine during medical school) What do you advise?

Did you meet with faculty about research during your interview?

This is commonplace in the Physician-Scientists tracks, in other words, the question would be: down the road, if you match in our program, is there any PI/lab/research group you would be willing to work with? Or is there anyone from our program in the area of your research who would be interested in your research skills? That's a golden opportunity if they have a faculty member that's part of your research network..

 

[blub1212]

So, I am not the most competitive applicant, (210 on step 1, 236 on step 2, 1 honors in 3rd year). I am wondering if it would help my cause to send an update to programs about my grades 4th year. Since my transcripts were sent out by my school, I have honored two rotations (infectious disease and my sub-i). Do you guys think it would do anything to email programs an update?

 

[235009]

So, I am not the most competitive applicant, (210 on step 1, 236 on step 2, 1 honors in 3rd year). I am wondering if it would help my cause to send an update to programs about my grades 4th year. Since my transcripts were sent out by my school, I have honored two rotations (infectious disease and my sub-i). Do you guys think it would do anything to email programs an update?

Won't make a difference. Everyone honors medicine subspecialty rotations and almost everyone honors subI. Without any comments or a letter from the subI the grade on its own is useless. Wouldn't hurt to mention that you honored the subI at an interview. Also if you are going to send a letter of interest wouldn't hurt to throw it in there but I wouldn't advocate contacting a program solely to tell them you got two grades that don't mean much.

 

[jesok]

So, I am not the most competitive applicant, (210 on step 1, 236 on step 2, 1 honors in 3rd year). I am wondering if it would help my cause to send an update to programs about my grades 4th year. Since my transcripts were sent out by my school, I have honored two rotations (infectious disease and my sub-i). Do you guys think it would do anything to email programs an update?

I disagree with the above. Update programs. Honoring the sub-i is important, while many people may honor (so it won't set you apart), they might want to make sure that you honored. It certainly won't hurt. Plus, unless I'm missing something, you're asking if this will help you get interviews, you can't rely on mentioning this on interviews if you're not invited, so the above advice is not helpful.

 

[TheAlohaBrand]

I don't think it would hurt much to update the programs, but I do think you should be prepared for the possibility that it may not help as much either. One PD at a top program that I spoke to said that with thousands of apps they didn't have the time to care about or even look at updates to applications.

 

[igcgnerd]

Applied to around 200 programs. 2 invites thus far. About 30 or so rejections.
Step 1- 210
CS- passed
Ck- 229
Passed all on first attempt. US citizen IMG, med school in Europe. All US rotations. Good LOR's, 2 IM and 1 FM.
I also applied to about 60 FM spots as well. No love on the FM side yet.
Should I be extremely worried at this point?

 

[igcgnerd]

That killed a thread lol

 

[californiaappli1]

Applied to around 200 programs. 2 invites thus far. About 30 or so rejections.
Step 1- 210
CS- passed
Ck- 229
Passed all on first attempt. US citizen IMG, med school in Europe. All US rotations. Good LOR's, 2 IM and 1 FM.
I also applied to about 60 FM spots as well. No love on the FM side yet.
Should I be extremely worried at this point?

I think you should consider a backup a this point. With only 2 interviews the chances of matching is low.

 

[chrissyxf]

Did you apply broadly including community programs? Do you need a visa? Have you applied to less desirable areas of the country? It's a bit late to add programs at this point but Step 1 that low as an IMG is going to screen you out of many programs. I would ask your mentors to make a couple of calls on your behalf.

Californiaappi1 recommended considering a back up but what would you consider a back up at this point (pardon my ignorance)? Psych? Their interviews have been pretty much all sent out at this point and his LORs don't match up. I would start also looking at options for things to do should you not match- a year of research, etc.

 

[californiaappli1]

Did you apply broadly including community programs? Do you need a visa? Have you applied to less desirable areas of the country? It's a bit late to add programs at this point but Step 1 that low as an IMG is going to screen you out of many programs. I would ask your mentors to make a couple of calls on your behalf.

Californiaappi1 recommended considering a back up but what would you consider a back up at this point (pardon my ignorance)? Psych? Their interviews have been pretty much all sent out at this point and his LORs don't match up. I would start also looking at options for things to do should you not match- a year of research, etc.

Sorry I was not clear, I meant to prepare for other things in case he doesn't match ( eg like you said a year of research).

 

[useless123]

Hi you guys,

I would really appreciate some honest answers.
I'm an non-US IMG, recent grad. Due to very high testing anxiety I failed multiple exams, multiple times during pre-clinical years. In the end it took me a year longer to complete my diploma. We have oral exams and the grading is pretty subjective, but I am to blame for the most part. I worked on my anxiety issues and didn't fail a single exam in clinical courses, and ended up with B+ in clinical courses on average.
My Step 1 score is 240+, my Step 2 score is 270+. Passed 2 CS. (All passed on the first attempt.) I have 3 months USCE. Planning to take Step 3 soon. I have some pubs, but nothing special.
How big an issue is my medical school performance in my chances of landing a residency spot? I know that clinical grades are more important than pre-clinical grades, but I also know that failing grades (and taking longer to complete med school) are red flags. Does anybody know how big a deal it really is?
Are my Step scores good enough to compensate for my shortcomings?
Should I explain my horrible preclinical grades in my PS?

Please help!