Penn vs. Yale vs. Northwestern vs. NYU

[334302]

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First post, long time observer. I have been fortunate to be accepted at some great schools this year. I would love to hear from current students at each institution and knowledgable members about the pros and cons of each curriculum, student life, and, in general, why each school is a great place to be a student. As a younger student than most (a few years below the median for the above schools), I was curious about the overall atmosphere for younger students at each of the schools and whether or not some of them have an older-student bias. I want to feel comfortable amongst my classmates and would love to hear current students comment about the age range in their class and if younger students stick out. Also, I have not received complete financial aid packages from all the schools so I am not yet considering how that may impact my decision.

Penn

1) Really like the 1.5 pre-clinical curriculum
2) Generous financial aid
3) Concerns about older class age (65% nontraditional)
4) Variety of global health opportunities
5) Most prestigious (arguably)
6) Currently favoring Penn
7) Students seemed intense but nice

Yale

1) Unprecedented Academic Freedom
2) Slightly younger class than Penn
3) Can take classes in any Yale school
4) Moving to 1.5 curriculum this year, might be a concern as the test class
5) In general, more well known than Penn
6) Weaker hospital system than Penn
7) Students seemed extremely relaxed and friendly, more similar to my personality

Not as interested in Northwestern or NYU, but would still like to hear opinions about any reasons why those two would be better than Penn or Yale.

Lastly, does Penn or Yale carry more weight in the medical community?

 

[breakintheroof]

Wow, what a day for these threads! 'Tis the season.

Congratulations to you @334302 on four great schools. Though it sounds like you've only got two in your mind, fair enough.

I'm not sure whether to vote for Yale or Penn. Penn is stronger clinically and likely by reputation. Yale has their justly renowned System (which is a pretty big contrast to Penn in that the latter is not pass/fail after the first semester). My impressions at both schools were very positive, and quite in line with yours.

I know that Penn says it's 65% "nontraditional," per the chart here, but that counts students who took even one gap year as nontraditional. I don't think you would stand out as young significantly more at Penn than at Yale. Penn notes on the portal that their age range for last year's class was 20 to 30, and it was similar each of the past three years.

One thing that I think may distinguish these schools is timing. Yale students, if I recall correctly, almost customarily take a tuition-free research year; I remember hearing that 60-70% graduate in five years. (@Finches, is this true?) Meanwhile, Penn has dual-degree and certificate programs, but a significantly higher percentage still finish in four years; only 29 students last year took research years, per the portal. I am not sure what to make of this, but it seems like an interesting distinction between the two. It does seem to imply that few Yale students mind spending another year in New Haven (though you didn't list location as a pro or con for either school so perhaps you aren't concerned about it). Perhaps that will also change once they have truncated the preclinical period to allow for more research/elective time?

Edit: Just for full disclosure, I just voted for Penn, no concrete reason why.

 

[Willy38]

I'm on the WL at Penn and Yale.

Penn has a brand new medical building which looks fantastic and philly is pretty amazing too. Penn also pulls in a boatload of NIH funding for research and probably has a marginally better hospital system? I can't imagine you would have trouble doing anything you want to do coming from either though. I think this another case of Yale vs. Another Top School where the biggest factors to consider are location and obviously the Yale System curriculum. If you are really excited about the Yale System then go there, if you're indifferent choose Penn.

In sum, Ferrari or Lamborghini ?

And Congrats either way !! Awesome choices.

 

[Finches]

Wow, what a day for these threads! 'Tis the season.

Congratulations to you @334302 on four great schools. Though it sounds like you've only got two in your mind, fair enough.

I'm not sure whether to vote for Yale or Penn. Penn is stronger clinically and likely by reputation. Yale has their justly renowned System (which is a pretty big contrast to Penn in that the latter is not pass/fail after the first semester). My impressions at both schools were very positive, and quite in line with yours.

I know that Penn says it's 65% "nontraditional," per the chart here, but that counts students who took even one gap year as nontraditional. I don't think you would stand out as young significantly more at Penn than at Yale. Penn notes on the portal that their age range for last year's class was 20 to 30, and it was similar each of the past three years.

One thing that I think may distinguish these schools is timing. Yale students, if I recall correctly, almost customarily take a tuition-free research year; I remember hearing that 60-70% graduate in five years. (@Finches, is this true?) Meanwhile, Penn has dual-degree and certificate programs, but a significantly higher percentage still finish in four years; only 29 students last year took research years, per the portal. I am not sure what to make of this, but it seems like an interesting distinction between the two. It does seem to imply that few Yale students mind spending another year in New Haven (though you didn't list location as a pro or con for either school so perhaps you aren't concerned about it). Perhaps that will also change once they have truncated the preclinical period to allow for more research/elective time?

Edit: Just for full disclosure, I just voted for Penn, no concrete reason why.

This is true. A lot of MD students here take a fully-funded fifth year to do research, complete another degree (e.g. MPH, MBA), or to explore other venues of interest. It's hugely popular; I would say more people take the fifth year than not.

 

[Finches]

Also, if you're the type to ask, "Does Penn or Yale carry the bigger name in medicine", then you probably won't fit in well here at Yale. Not to mention, Penn has us beat by two places on USNews this year. I, too, am voting Penn. 😉

 

[334302]

Let me clarify. I was using the "bigger name in medicine" as a short-hand way of asking whether or not there is a significant difference in the career prospects or future opportunities between the two schools. I do not want to be confused for a rankings-obsessed premed. My question is are Penn and Yale peer institutions, or is Penn more in the Harvard/Hopkins caliber, and if yes, does that make a difference during residency applications, and does anyone turn down Penn for Yale if all other things were equal? This would signify to me that there is something particularly awesome about Penn that makes it nearly impossible to decline. If this is the case, then it informs my decision somewhat. I appreciate any opinions. As you can tell, even though I have clearly spent time studying the specific programs, I would love to hear other member's opinions or perceptions about the schools and their students. Thank you

 

[sunflower18]

I'm going to vote Penn, just because it seems like that is where you'd rather end up. I don't think your age will be too much of a problem, and I'm sure there are some Penn students who will fit your more laidback personality type. I didn't apply to either school, so I don't have much more insight other than that. But it seems like you want to go Penn. And if they gave you money (you said generous finaid), all the more reason!

 

[Juldarus]

Penn has like 35 full tuition scholarships coming out in a couple weeks. If you get one, I don't think you can turn them down (I certainly won't be if I'm somehow lucky enough!).

Curriculum plays a huge role here and the two places seem to take very different approaches. If you go to Penn, you'll be spending a lot of mandatory time with the learning team, though with 3 afternoons unscheduled. It's tough to say with Yale's new curriculum, but I'd wager it's still very much lecture-based for those who like class and more accepting of those who want to do their own thing. Personally, I love collaborative learning and that is one reason why I'm pretty sure I'll be going to Penn.

 

[Finches]

Let me clarify. I was using the "bigger name in medicine" as a short-hand way of asking whether or not there is a significant difference in the career prospects or future opportunities between the two schools. I do not want to be confused for a rankings-obsessed premed. My question is are Penn and Yale peer institutions, or is Penn more in the Harvard/Hopkins caliber, and if yes, does that make a difference during residency applications, and does anyone turn down Penn for Yale if all other things were equal? This would signify to me that there is something particularly awesome about Penn that makes it nearly impossible to decline. If this is the case, then it informs my decision somewhat. I appreciate any opinions. As you can tell, even though I have clearly spent time studying the specific programs, I would love to hear other member's opinions or perceptions about the schools and their students. Thank you

The "Harvard/Hopkins caliber" only exists on SDN, where "rankings-obsessed" premedical students spend the time to dissect, to the nth degree, the differences in "success during residency applications" between schools like Harvard, Hopkins, Stanford, Penn, Yale, UCSF, Columbia, Michigan, Uchicago, and Duke.

There is nothing, and I mean nothing legitimate someone can say about how your future successes would be altered simply by going to Yale vs. Penn. What is important now is location, cost, and auxiliary programs (e.g. Global health, as you mentioned). Sounds like Penn is the winner for all 3 of those things for you.

Since you asked for the perception about my school and our students, I will say this: we are an extremely happy bunch. You should know this from the Yale system. The school encourages students to enter specialities versus primary care. The school is very supportive of its students, throwing money (and food) at us to go out and do. We also do very well on Step 1, match very well (as any other school in this, ahem, "caliber"), and also have a global health certificate that you can earn while in medical school, if that's your cup of tea.

 

[334302]

As Juldarus referenced, would any current Penn student like to explain how the learning team works and their typical weekly schedule?

 

[JPA178]

You're in a very nice position, congratulations. Penn clearly has the most votes, but of those 4 schools, Chicago is my favorite place and the best location. Northwestern is right in downtown Chicago and easily accessible by all the cta lines, so you can live in any neighborhood you like including Lincoln Park, Lakeview, etc. Academic opportunities there are hard to beat. I know I'm going against the trend, but if it were me, I'd pick Northwestern in a heartbeat.

 

[Juldarus]

As Juldarus referenced, would any current Penn student like to explain how the learning team works and their typical weekly schedule?

Not a student yet, but it was mentioned on the 2019 facebook page that first years have 2-3 hours of lecture per day in the morning followed by 2 hours of small group. Two afternoons per week you have ethics/standardized patients/etc. Three afternoons per week are free