Physician LOR more valuable if attended specific school I'm applying to?

[UCDavispremed92]

I have worked as a scribe for 1.5 years with about a dozen physicians. There is one physician in a leadership position that would be the obvious choice were I to ask for only a single letter, but it has occurred to me that I can request an additional ~8 physicians with whom I have established working relationships for letters, their usage being limited to the medical schools which they attended.

1. Am I mistaken in believing that it is worth the effort to have several physician letters matched to the medical school to which they attended on my application to said school, rather than just general physician letter?


I know most of these physicians very well, beyond the point of doubts as to whether a "strong letter" were in the cards, so if the answer to the preceding question isn't that this distinction is arbitrary I will be matching letters in this manner to some extent.

2. If there is cause to believe that a credibility/familiarity advantage exists with a physician known to/associated with a school, is the effect so great as to suggest that I should rank this as a consideration OVER personal familiarity?
* I'm expecting the answer is no in the abstract, but for additional context - in some cases there is little reason to think on statistical basis I would be likely to see an interview from a few schools in question - not for lack of qualification, but due to "needle in a haystack" effect as OOS applicant to out-of-state public school. These are schools which take a significant number of OOS students in relative terms, but where the bottleneck effect is nonetheless extreme beyond the point of quantitative qualification offering any reasonable expectancy of acceptance....... (TLDR: may represent "hail mary pass" to get my foot in door for schools in question)

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[frosted2]

E i g h t p h y s c i a n L O R s ?

Holy batman.

 

[UCDavispremed92]

E i g h t p h y s c i a n L O R s ?

Holy batman.

It's a big urban hospital with a lot of physicians, and I'll typically work with ~4 during a given month. Adds up to a lot of contact with a lot of people and it's fraternal kind of vibe such that this is not actually a reach, but sure that it might sound that way.

 

[Tenk]

It can make a difference if they know people. If they are just alumni not as much probably and less so at Ivy League type schools. You also have to be pretty good as an applicant already as well. No way I’m gonna burn bridges for a sub par applicant/person. In other words it’s probably only worth it if you’re: 1) really close and liked by the attending such that they would risk a phone call, 2) can already get an interview based on your stats, and 3) have some other reason to go to the school other than that’s where the attending went.

 

[965978]

It can make a difference if they know people. If they are just alumni not as much probably and less so at Ivy League type schools. You also have to be pretty good as an applicant already as well. No way I’m gonna burn bridges for a sub par applicant/person. In other words it’s probably only worth it if you’re: 1) really close and liked by the attending such that they would risk a phone call, 2) can already get an interview based on your stats, and 3) have some other reason to go to the school other than that’s where the attending went.

Would you risk it for a sub-par med student applying for residency?

 

[Tenk]

Would you risk it for a sub-par med student applying for residency?

Only if I had worked with them, liked them, and believed they would fit which is an unlikely combo for an EM applicant.

 

[UCDavispremed92]

It can make a difference if they know people. If they are just alumni not as much probably and less so at Ivy League type schools. You also have to be pretty good as an applicant already as well. No way I’m gonna burn bridges for a sub par applicant/person. In other words it’s probably only worth it if you’re: 1) really close and liked by the attending such that they would risk a phone call, 2) can already get an interview based on your stats, and 3) have some other reason to go to the school other than that’s where the attending went.

Thanks, this is close to where my intuition was in trying this approach.

I mentioned that these are "schools that take a significant number of OOS students" (definitely not Ivy - think low pop. states incentivized to bilk/increase quantity of OOS applicants and/or relatively high ratio OOS interview:OOS applicant) and that there is "bottleneck effect" for OOS applicants. This is all a long way of saying that, based on my qualifications, were I as OOS applicant not to receive an interview, this would more likely be due to my being "lost in the shuffle" (or I suppose weak essays, but if we control for that here) than deficient GPA/MCAT/ECs. These could all be seen as in excess such that they could possibly surmise that I consider them "safety schools" (hopefully not, but there is kernel of truth to this).

In other words #1 and #2 are checked boxes, though I'm not sure how plugged at their schools these physicians are at present. I thought better to go with younger docs more likely to know current administration there. I can't know the extent of their continued ties to the school until I request the letter and inquire about these details at that time, but I read what you're saying as basically an endorsement of this enterprise being worthwhile. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[UCDavispremed92]

So lets see:
1) Typically, most medical schools ask for letters from academic evaluation. That is 2 science letters and 1 non science. None of these physician letters fit that
2) Medical schools require use of AMCAS letter service which has a max of 10 letter entries; seems you be over that
3) Most medical schools have maximum letter limits, usually 3-6. You might be over that

Oversight on my part. That would take total down to 3-4 for letters from these physicians, but questions regarding efficacy of this approach remain of interest to me, if you would care to comment on this.
Thanks

 

[UCDavispremed92]

One final follow-up question: Should I prioritize schools whose secondary applications ask about connection to their school?

Assume that I have no connection but the indirect one through the letter-writing physician and graduate of their institution.

 

[DrFortiusNatando]

One final follow-up question: Should I prioritize schools whose secondary applications ask about connection to their school?

Assume that I have no connection but the indirect one through the letter-writing physician and graduate of their institution.

I don't think this kind of low-level indirect connection will make any difference. Schools that ask about connection are asking if you have a connection that would likely pull you to their school over other schools, assuming you get multiple acceptances. For example, UPENN is a T20 that asks bc it is likely that most applicants who get into UPENN also get into multiple other T20 schools and they want to know what it is about them that might make you more likely to go there. If you already work in a UPENN lab doing research, then they know you are more likely to matriculate there. If your entire extended family is living in the PHILA area or your significant other is at the law school or your parents went there, then you are more likely to go there. So I would not prioritize schools who ask about a connection.

However, I will say that schools will sometimes choose an accomplished and competent applicant to interview over another accomplished applicant if one of their strong letter writers is an alum at that school. (But that does not count as a "connection") One advisee recently only got 3 interviews - two mid tier state schools and one mid-tier private and the private was where her PI with whom she worked for 2 years had gone to school, which was hardly a coincidence. (She was better in person than on paper and got into all three).

 

[UCDavispremed92]

I don't think this kind of low-level indirect connection will make any difference. Schools that ask about connection are asking if you have a connection that would likely pull you to their school over other schools, assuming you get multiple acceptances. For example, UPENN is a T20 that asks bc it is likely that most applicants who get into UPENN also get into multiple other T20 schools and they want to know what it is about them that might make you more likely to go there. If you already work in a UPENN lab doing research, then they know you are more likely to matriculate there. If your entire extended family is living in the PHILA area or your significant other is at the law school or your parents went there, then you are more likely to go there. So I would not prioritize schools who ask about a connection.

However, I will say that schools will sometimes choose an accomplished and competent applicant to interview over another accomplished applicant if one of their strong letter writers is an alum at that school. (But that does not count as a "connection") One advisee recently only got 3 interviews - two mid tier state schools and one mid-tier private and the private was where her PI with whom she worked for 2 years had gone to school, which was hardly a coincidence. (She was better in person than on paper and got into all three).

Great response. About the "connection" question, it definitely is no match for state/regional ties, but many applicants couldn't reasonably do anything but leave it blank. I see this question as an opportunity to state that I have seen their values refracted through the letter-writing physician, as well as having heard them detailed by the physician directly ahead of their encouraging I apply for my similarly aligning with them. This would not itself necessarily require a letter from the physician, just their assenting to what I had written.

The mid-tier is where I am focusing these letters. The read I'm getting is the greater extent to which I qualified, to even overqualified for a school, the greater likelihood this could make a difference. So, think I'm going to err towards schools with lower admissions standards with the letters.

 

[gyngyn]

Am I mistaken in believing that it is worth the effort to have several physician letters matched to the medical school to which they attended on my application to said school, rather than just general physician letter?

You are mistaken.
Physician letters are among the least effective for an MD application.
DO's do love a DO letter, though.

 

[UCDavispremed92]

You are mistaken.
Physician letters are among the least effective for an MD application.
DO's do love a DO letter, though.

Everyone else has stated it may be worth something in an edge case. The more important letters are a topic unto themselves - I'm just comparing in abstract physician who attended school vs. one who did not, not physician letters vs. all possible other letters.

 

[gyngyn]

Everyone else has stated it may be worth something in an edge case. The more important letters are a topic unto themselves - I'm just comparing in abstract physician who attended school vs. one who did not, not physician letters vs. all possible other letters.

A "physician letter," even from someone who attended the school, is wasted space in an MD application...and yet we still have to read them.
"Meh" letters from unknown alumni are not helpful and can be seen as pandering.
A strong letter (not shadowing or scribing) from a beloved alum, well-known to the committee, might be viewed differently.

 

[UCDavispremed92]

A "physician letter," even from someone who attended the school, is wasted space in an MD application.

That's a bold statement. I've known many of these physicians for ~5 years, from my current job as well as from years earlier during stint as EMT before transferring to 4-year. One was on adcoms for public medical school to which I was applying, which has some degree of standardization across a number of other campuses. Your statement seems like an overgeneralization true for clinical ECs with short half-life.

 

[gyngyn]

That's a bold statement. I've known many of these physicians for ~5 years, from my current job as well as from years earlier during stint as EMT before transferring to 4-year. Your statement seems like an overgeneralization true for clinical ECs with short half-life.

"Meh" letters from unknown alumni are not helpful and can be seen as pandering.
A strong letter (not shadowing or scribing) from a beloved alum, well-known to the committee, might be viewed differently.

 

[UCDavispremed92]

"Meh" letters from unknown alumni are not helpful and can be seen as pandering.
A strong letter (not shadowing or scribing) from a beloved alum, well-known to the committee, might be viewed differently.

Don't you think the risk of being perceived as pandering is outweighed by potential benefit of having an endorsement from a physician who the institution in question, at an earlier time, themselves gave a definitive endorsement? Take a school like VCU which has reasonable admissions requirements, but no doubt rejects a large number of OOS students out of large overall OOS pool who are well in excess of those requirements. There's no way with some of these schools, particularly OOS public ones as a Californian, that acceptance is not somewhat of an unlikely proposition, even with my stats being well above their median yet well short of 99th percentile. It's a clear little to lose/everything to gain proposition, and that's what the two adcoms stated.


I outlined that a strong letter is guaranteed across the board due to particularities of this department, my relationship with them being unusually close because that is just what the work culture is, and this being my second stint working here.

 

[Goro]

Everyone else has stated it may be worth something in an edge case. The more important letters are a topic unto themselves - I'm just comparing in abstract physician who attended school vs. one who did not, not physician letters vs. all possible other letters.

They are wrong, and unlikely to have experience with med school admissions, I'll wager.

 

[wb100]

I would say no it won't make a difference. My undergrad had a medical school, and one of their professors started teaching a small course for undergrad students. He's been teaching at the medical school for 20+ years and is the head of one of their main departments, and definitely well-known at the school/committee. His letter did not help me get an interview.