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@lbcsg1030 I think you should get to have a puppy just for going through the stress of applying. 🙂
RANT HERE thread
- Thread starter flyhi
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If it’s not the one, it’s okay! I know that’s easier said than done. I was fully prepared to not get in this cycle. Like everyone in my family knew not to talk to me about vet school because I knew I wasn’t going to get in and I would have to apply again. I was so disappointed in myself every day even before I submitted applications because I *knew* I wasn’t going to get in. I wish I could take back all those negative feelings now, because if I hadn’t got in, I feel like I would’ve been okay. Honestly, beating myself up wasn’t worth the toll I put on my brain or body. Maybe it’s because im sitting on the other side. Maybe it’s because I realized all my problems aren’t magically gone because I got accepted. The waiting for me was the worst part, it was worse than the 2 rejections I received before my first acceptance which I swore were just foretellings of my fate for the whole cycle.
I’m really sorry the cycle isn’t going as you had hoped, but I believe in you. I hope you get in and if you don’t, I don’t think anyone will be disappointed in you. To even submit a VMCAS application deserves some kind of award because that crap sucked. You deserve to be here and when you get your acceptance, you will absolutely deserve that too!! Cut yourself some slack, your feelings are valid. You should get yourself a puppy either way 🙂
ClockworkCat09
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I know!! I'm glad I'm not alone lol 😭 on one hand it's like the weight/pressure to do exceedingly well on everything is reduced, on the other hand the fact that I'm behind on readings and not focusing on work is adding its own stress instead... keep reminding myself to stay focused on X and the next thing I know I'm doing a deep dive on something entirely unrelated smh. Btw did you know that flashing your car headlights is a form of legally protected free speech in the US? this message brought to you by one of yesterday's rabbit holes 🤩
ClockworkCat09
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You should def celebrate getting through the process regardless of the outcome! This is wildly stressful, especially when so many schools leave you waiting for MONTHS without communicating anything, just leaving you to play mind games... I'm really hoping you get good news soon, but do try to be gentle with yourself! Like flotus said, it's a rough process, and even going through it is deserving of a puppy 🙂 best of luck!!
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Lol. And all this time I was afraid of flashing my headlights at an undercover cop.
I always feel pressured to do good, but I’m also not a stellar student. Mostly B student in sciences. Right now I’m more struggling with “okay…so how much can I slack off and not fail” LOL but definitely not mentally struggling with being a slacker because quite frankly, I thrive as an anxiety driven procrastinator with a people pleasing mentality. Slacker is like my secret middle name and I cover it up with what looks like more than last minute effort via pizazz
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I work in shelter med and breeders like you are EXACTLY why I frequently have conversations with staff about why I support people buying purebred dogs. There are tons of very legitimate reasons to want purebreds and specific breed traits, and for me the cost of knowing that someone is invested in looking into their animal's health and determining whether they would improve the breed is absolutely worthwhile. I spend a lot of time seeing the consequences of irresponsible breeding and it's nice to see animals actually being responsibly and thoughtfully bred when appropriate.
It's a huge bummer that you haven't been able to breed any of your animals. I hope things work out with your second CKCS.
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More of a lamentation but the one night we don't have an overnight assistant is the night we have a parvo puppy and DK(suspect)A. DKA kiddo needs poked every 2hrs for BG and the paw pad trick is giving us artificially low values. He's a nipper, so need to have two people to get a sample. So no significant nap for me tonight 😭
gs38
UMN CVM c/o 2027
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I know how you feel, last year I was rejected from all the schools I applied to and was waiting for my last one until late March/ early April. It’s absolute torture, even if you have a ton of people supporting you it feels terrible having to tell them bad news. During last cycle I told myself I would adopt a cat if I got in and ended up adopting the cat before I even heard back from all my schools (I’m glad I did, I can’t imagine going the extra year without him). This process is a rollercoaster, treat yourself and get the puppy 😤.
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Biden can't raise the debt ceiling it literally has to be congress
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Okay? Sorry I misspoke
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No need to apologize, I think it's important for everyone to understand how it works since there is quite a bit of misinformation out there.it was not intended to be a personal attack and I apologize if it came off that way
ClockworkCat09
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Tbh I'm gaslighting myself big time on my interview with Missouri..... I really hope I did well but it feels like I'll jinx myself if I do let myself think it might work out, but I'm so anxious about if I don't get in there. Of all the schools I applied to, that was one I had really high hopes for and I keep going back to the interview and wondering if XYZ I said was stupid or if I should've said something else I didn't think of or if the interviewers didn't like something I said. I'll be absolutely shattered if I don't get in but hope feels like a jinx (if I dare to let myself think I might get in, I won't) while thinking I might not make it also feels like a jinx (if I think I won't make it, it'll bring that into existence) 😭 every option is cursed, so I try not to think about it, but of course that doesn't work
It doesn't help any that I was waitlisted at my in-state school and in all likelihood won't make it off the waitlist - this wouldn't be devastating on its own, as tbh I mainly applied there for financial reasons (student debt, anyone?), but now the knowledge that I currently don't (and likely won't) have any other US option is adding to the fear of not making it into Missouri's school 😭 I genuinely think a rejection from Missouri would shatter me far more than the in-state waitlist, lol.
Just wanted to get that anxiety out, I guess. Ty to the rant thread for existing, haha.
It doesn't help any that I was waitlisted at my in-state school and in all likelihood won't make it off the waitlist - this wouldn't be devastating on its own, as tbh I mainly applied there for financial reasons (student debt, anyone?), but now the knowledge that I currently don't (and likely won't) have any other US option is adding to the fear of not making it into Missouri's school 😭 I genuinely think a rejection from Missouri would shatter me far more than the in-state waitlist, lol.
Just wanted to get that anxiety out, I guess. Ty to the rant thread for existing, haha.
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I really need to rant. This is my first time applying and I am a senior in undergrad. I have always had a plan and have always known what I was going to do months/years before. I applied to 8 schools and have been rejected by 5, waitlisted at 2, and still waiting on one. I am so exhausted and I am not sure what is wrong with my application. I have a 3.5 almost 3.6 GPA at a private liberal arts college and lots of experience working with small animals and equine. I also am a collegiate athlete. During my interviews, I had really cool stories to talk about with experiences and research that the interviewers seemed to love and enjoy. In all my rejection/waitlist emails, it has been that my application was great, it's just that it is so competitive. I am not sure what to do if I do not get in anywhere and waiting on a call that I am off the waitlist is excruciating. I am scared I will get a call last second and I will have to drop everything and just go. I am the only one in my class at my college that has applied to veterinary school and I just feel alone in this process and that nobody else can understand how mentally and physically exhausting it is. I am watching all my friends get into nursing school, PT school, etc and I am just jealous that I still have no idea what I am going to do. It has made me feel that I am not good enough. If I do not get in, should I work and gain more experience, save money, or try to raise my GPA with a masters? Veterinary school is what I want to do and have always wanted to do. This is my dream and I do not want to give up, but the way I feel right now is making me want to give up.
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If any schools you applied to will do a file review, I highly recommend doing them for any place that offers it. They will tell you exactly what they would hope to see improvement on and where your app scored lower.
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I have a lengthy rant, that I want to type out. I want to rant about the current animal shelter/rescue environment. First, I used to be very much an "adopt, don't shop" why buy a pet when you can rescue one type of person. I have 1000% flipped switch. So much, that you couldn't pay me to take a shelter dog now. (A lot of this will be geared towards dogs, but can apply a bit to cats, horses, small mammals, etc).
Let's start back 17-18 years ago, late teenage/young adult DVMD is working her first job in vet med as a vet assisant. Where I lived and back at this time, veterinary assistants were able to do the same things as a vet tech. I don't agree with it now, but that is how things were back then. I don't recall ever feeling unsafe at work. I never feared a dog could maim or kill me. Did I see dogs that might bite? Of course, but we could very easily manage them. I never had a dog I couldn't easily place a muzzle on and restrain. Fast forward to the last few years and I couldn't get through a single day without encountering at least 1 dog that was so aggressive I feared for being severely injured or even killed if that dog got the chance. Dogs that we can't easily muzzle or muzzle period. Dogs that are also aggressive with thier owners.
So what has changed? What has happened?
1. "Adopt don't shop" has gained such huge popularity among the general public that most people will shame/sneer at you if you mention purchasing a purebred dog. "Why would you BUY a dog, when there are so many to adopt?" Even in vet clinics I hear techs/assistants explaining to people to not buy a dog, "avoid backyard breeders and puppy mills their dogs often have health issues and behvaioral problems." Then when I mention getting a well-bred, purebred dog, they talk about how "unhealthy" purebreds are and mixed breeds are better. Then in the next breath they jump to "adopt don't shop." Ok, fair, I agree, we don't support backyard breeders and puppy mills, but I would like to know where these techs/assistants think the dogs sitting in shelters come from? Because last I checked it is from the backyard breeders and puppy mills and they are typically mixed breed dogs. The shelter isn't a magical force field that removes the health/behavioral issues of BYB/puppy mill dogs. This phrase has also created a market for shelter/rescue animals. Now, don't get me wrong. There are amazing dogs out there that are waiting to be adopted and attempting to increase interest in them to get them homes is good. However, "adopt don't shop" is such a blanket statement. It fails to acknowledge that people really should search for a dog and dog breed that will fit their family/environment. It encourages people to just go out on a whim and adopt any dog from the shelter with the assumption that you can fit any random dog into any home. This is just setting up everyone for failure- humans and dog, because.....
2. Behavior is mostly genetic. It actually is NOT "all in how you raise them." Behavior is genetic for most species. Think about it. When humans are talking about their kids they will say things like "Look at little Timmy, he acts so much like Great Grandpa Joe." Or "Look at Addie, she is just like her mother". Because behavior is genetic. No one is unleashing a pack of Chihuahuas to go herd their sheep flock and it isn't because they are small. It is because a Chihuahua is a horrible herding dog. No one is going "lets put the Fila Brasileiro in the children's hospital as a therapy dog" because they would literally be the worst suited breed for the job. You don't see Golden Retreivers taking down a lot of criminals because they would be more apt to make friends with them. So the energy level, exercise requirements, training requirements and to some degree how you train a dog is based on their breed. So when someone has decided they want to add a dog to their family, encouraging them to take the time to find a dog that will fit their schedule, lifestyle, the time they have available for training, etc is the proper answer. This may mean finding a shelter dog and it may mean going to a reputable breeder, but the goal is to keep the dog in the home and have dog and owners be happy with each other. Ignoring that behavior is genetic and that not every home is well suited for the pitbull/shepherd/husky/chihuahua mix that is present at the shelter is a bad start. Some dogs are just born aggressive. I have seen aggressive dogs as young as 4 weeks old, that isn't a raising issue, that is a genetic issue.
3. "No kill". Adding in "no kill" to "adopt don't shop" has created a monster. People take "no kill" way beyond what it was ever meant to me. It was meant to be shelters would try to find homes for every healthy, behaviorally sound pet and not euthanize for space. What it has turned into is we won't euthanize anything even if the dog is literally a threat to society. I have seen the dogs coming out of the shelters near me and have had to help owners try to manage severe aggression in this dog they added to their home. What was supposed to be a happy, exciting life change/family addition turns into a nightmare for those who get stuck adopting aggressive dogs from the shelter without being informed in advance. And if you think shelters always disclose past behavior history, you have been duped. I will get into more of the shady things I have seen shelters do in a bit. But how willing do you think people are to come back to the shelter to adopt again after they were stuck with Cujo reincarnate the first time? They aren't.
Now let's discuss the things I have seen myself and heard from colleagues directly working in the shelter that have happened.
1. "Behavioral evaluations". First, I don't know of a shelter near me that hires someone actually trained in dog behavior with significant experience to be evaulating behavior prior to adoption. I recently sat through a local shelter's behavioral evaluation, it was run by some college-aged students with minimal to no dog behavior knowledge, some of them were just volunteers. It was the most elementary behavioral evaluation ever. A dog with severe animal aggression was listed as "dog selective", that dog was ready to unalive any other animal that crossed its path, it was not "selective" by any stretch. I watched them bring in a border collie with the worst resource guarding ever. This dog resource guarded food, treats, toys, a chair, then it picked one person it "liked" and resource guarded them as well. And by guard I don't mean snap if you get near, I mean lunge to attack if you are so much as in the same room with the item the dog was guarding. I LOVE me herding dogs, they are my soul, but this border collie, needed euthanasia, instead it was put up for adoption with a statement of "slightly protective around food." Excuse me?
2. If dogs bite in the shelter, they will change their names and transport them out of the shelter. A friend of mine was working at a shelter and mauled severely by a dog there, left permanent scars to her leg. The dog was not euthanized. They changed its name and sent it on to another shelter. They do this on purpose because often names are the only ID dogs have so the bite history gets "lost" in transport. Nah "Freddy" has never bit anyone, because Freddy had been Sid before and so of course Freddy didn't bite anyone, Sid did, but this isn't Sid. Not kidding. This happens frequently. The dog that bit my friend was adopted out twice and returned both times for--- did you guess it---- if you said biting, you would be correct. My friend worked at multiple shelters in the area, she saw the dog again at a different shelter she was at, the dog was being quarantined for another bite, except this family had elected euthanasia at the end of the quarantine.
3. Creating a ward for pregnant, stray dogs to give birth in the shelter then selling off the puppies because puppies bring in bigger adoption fees. Doing this regardless of how aggressive, mean, unsocial the mother dog is. The shelter my friend worked in created a "mutternity ward". She said it was full of pregnant, aggressive strays whose puppies were just as aggressive from the day they were born, but puppies are cute and bring in more money, so who cares about the human/family adopting the aggressive puppy.
4. Those articles you see of shelters saving large volumes of dogs from the meat trade industry are rarely true. Instead most of those dogs are purchased from backyard breeders in the country of origin by the shelter (they are cheap compared to costs in the US), imported in to the US, then sold here with the sad, sob story attached to them, because well people believe it. And dogs with sad stories= big donations.
5. Adoption fees. Some shelters are still very reasonable, some have become insane. I saw a dog at a shelter by me that had an adoption fee of $900. Not kidding. Most of the fees are at least $450-500.
6. Adoption requirements. This is more common with small resecues that have decided to gate-keep adopting dogs. I get having some requirements or being sure the pet goes to a good home, but let's be realistic. I know of vets that have been denied adoption of a dog. I had a client who asked us to write a letter to a rescue because he was looking to adopt a boxer from them. He had two other boxers that he took impeccable care of. His male was still intact because it had a cardiac issue and we (cardiologist included) decided it wasn't safe/worth the anesthetic risk to neuter the dog. They declined adopting a boxer (that was fixed) to this guy because he had an intact male boxer at home. That medically could not be neutered. If you aren't home 24/7/365, with an 8 foot block fence, 5 acres of land and a magical unicorn good luck adopting from some places.
I could keep going but I will end here with the ridiculousness of things rescues have started doing.
So why get a purebred dog over a rescue? Ethical breeders breed for sound tempearments and health. The notion that mutts are healthier than purebreds is not accurate. There are some conditions more common among certain breeds, but an ethical breeder aims to breed to avoid those conditions/concerns. They spend hundreds to thousands health testing the parents. Hips, elbows, thyroid, cardiac, eyes, genetic testing. They don't breed dogs that don't pass health testing. They title their dogs in conformation or sports. You might think "well I don't care if the parents did well in those, I just want a pet". Ok, but that shows they have temperamentally sound dogs. Dogs that aren't well behaved or are aggressive are dismissed from these venues. It also shows they have good conformation, form and structure and that they aren't blowing their cruciate at only 2 years old.
Are purebred dogs more expensive? Sure. Upfront you will be paying about $2500-3500 give or take a bit depending on the breed, but they give you a health guarantee and will take the dog back at any point if you determine you can no longer keep the dog. So the dog is not ending up in the shelter system.
Also, people have to stop insisting you can find any breed you want at a shelter or rescue. I can guarantee I will make you lose this argument. With 200 AKC recognized dog breeds and over 300 dog breeds recognized world wide, I can give a list of breeds that would be unlikely if not impossible to find in shelter/rescue.
So to the shelter dumping $6500 on that aggressive French bulldog that keeps being returned for biting and sending people to the hospital, you are part of the problem. Also next time you hear someone wanting a purebred dog, support them. Help them be sure they find someone reputable and not a backyard breeder.
Last parting point: The US animal rescue/shelter industry is currently valued at $2.6 billion, I don't know any reputable breeder making anywhere near that. I don't know any reputable breeder that makes much, if anything off of the puppies they do produce and sell.
/End rant.
Let's start back 17-18 years ago, late teenage/young adult DVMD is working her first job in vet med as a vet assisant. Where I lived and back at this time, veterinary assistants were able to do the same things as a vet tech. I don't agree with it now, but that is how things were back then. I don't recall ever feeling unsafe at work. I never feared a dog could maim or kill me. Did I see dogs that might bite? Of course, but we could very easily manage them. I never had a dog I couldn't easily place a muzzle on and restrain. Fast forward to the last few years and I couldn't get through a single day without encountering at least 1 dog that was so aggressive I feared for being severely injured or even killed if that dog got the chance. Dogs that we can't easily muzzle or muzzle period. Dogs that are also aggressive with thier owners.
So what has changed? What has happened?
1. "Adopt don't shop" has gained such huge popularity among the general public that most people will shame/sneer at you if you mention purchasing a purebred dog. "Why would you BUY a dog, when there are so many to adopt?" Even in vet clinics I hear techs/assistants explaining to people to not buy a dog, "avoid backyard breeders and puppy mills their dogs often have health issues and behvaioral problems." Then when I mention getting a well-bred, purebred dog, they talk about how "unhealthy" purebreds are and mixed breeds are better. Then in the next breath they jump to "adopt don't shop." Ok, fair, I agree, we don't support backyard breeders and puppy mills, but I would like to know where these techs/assistants think the dogs sitting in shelters come from? Because last I checked it is from the backyard breeders and puppy mills and they are typically mixed breed dogs. The shelter isn't a magical force field that removes the health/behavioral issues of BYB/puppy mill dogs. This phrase has also created a market for shelter/rescue animals. Now, don't get me wrong. There are amazing dogs out there that are waiting to be adopted and attempting to increase interest in them to get them homes is good. However, "adopt don't shop" is such a blanket statement. It fails to acknowledge that people really should search for a dog and dog breed that will fit their family/environment. It encourages people to just go out on a whim and adopt any dog from the shelter with the assumption that you can fit any random dog into any home. This is just setting up everyone for failure- humans and dog, because.....
2. Behavior is mostly genetic. It actually is NOT "all in how you raise them." Behavior is genetic for most species. Think about it. When humans are talking about their kids they will say things like "Look at little Timmy, he acts so much like Great Grandpa Joe." Or "Look at Addie, she is just like her mother". Because behavior is genetic. No one is unleashing a pack of Chihuahuas to go herd their sheep flock and it isn't because they are small. It is because a Chihuahua is a horrible herding dog. No one is going "lets put the Fila Brasileiro in the children's hospital as a therapy dog" because they would literally be the worst suited breed for the job. You don't see Golden Retreivers taking down a lot of criminals because they would be more apt to make friends with them. So the energy level, exercise requirements, training requirements and to some degree how you train a dog is based on their breed. So when someone has decided they want to add a dog to their family, encouraging them to take the time to find a dog that will fit their schedule, lifestyle, the time they have available for training, etc is the proper answer. This may mean finding a shelter dog and it may mean going to a reputable breeder, but the goal is to keep the dog in the home and have dog and owners be happy with each other. Ignoring that behavior is genetic and that not every home is well suited for the pitbull/shepherd/husky/chihuahua mix that is present at the shelter is a bad start. Some dogs are just born aggressive. I have seen aggressive dogs as young as 4 weeks old, that isn't a raising issue, that is a genetic issue.
3. "No kill". Adding in "no kill" to "adopt don't shop" has created a monster. People take "no kill" way beyond what it was ever meant to me. It was meant to be shelters would try to find homes for every healthy, behaviorally sound pet and not euthanize for space. What it has turned into is we won't euthanize anything even if the dog is literally a threat to society. I have seen the dogs coming out of the shelters near me and have had to help owners try to manage severe aggression in this dog they added to their home. What was supposed to be a happy, exciting life change/family addition turns into a nightmare for those who get stuck adopting aggressive dogs from the shelter without being informed in advance. And if you think shelters always disclose past behavior history, you have been duped. I will get into more of the shady things I have seen shelters do in a bit. But how willing do you think people are to come back to the shelter to adopt again after they were stuck with Cujo reincarnate the first time? They aren't.
Now let's discuss the things I have seen myself and heard from colleagues directly working in the shelter that have happened.
1. "Behavioral evaluations". First, I don't know of a shelter near me that hires someone actually trained in dog behavior with significant experience to be evaulating behavior prior to adoption. I recently sat through a local shelter's behavioral evaluation, it was run by some college-aged students with minimal to no dog behavior knowledge, some of them were just volunteers. It was the most elementary behavioral evaluation ever. A dog with severe animal aggression was listed as "dog selective", that dog was ready to unalive any other animal that crossed its path, it was not "selective" by any stretch. I watched them bring in a border collie with the worst resource guarding ever. This dog resource guarded food, treats, toys, a chair, then it picked one person it "liked" and resource guarded them as well. And by guard I don't mean snap if you get near, I mean lunge to attack if you are so much as in the same room with the item the dog was guarding. I LOVE me herding dogs, they are my soul, but this border collie, needed euthanasia, instead it was put up for adoption with a statement of "slightly protective around food." Excuse me?
2. If dogs bite in the shelter, they will change their names and transport them out of the shelter. A friend of mine was working at a shelter and mauled severely by a dog there, left permanent scars to her leg. The dog was not euthanized. They changed its name and sent it on to another shelter. They do this on purpose because often names are the only ID dogs have so the bite history gets "lost" in transport. Nah "Freddy" has never bit anyone, because Freddy had been Sid before and so of course Freddy didn't bite anyone, Sid did, but this isn't Sid. Not kidding. This happens frequently. The dog that bit my friend was adopted out twice and returned both times for--- did you guess it---- if you said biting, you would be correct. My friend worked at multiple shelters in the area, she saw the dog again at a different shelter she was at, the dog was being quarantined for another bite, except this family had elected euthanasia at the end of the quarantine.
3. Creating a ward for pregnant, stray dogs to give birth in the shelter then selling off the puppies because puppies bring in bigger adoption fees. Doing this regardless of how aggressive, mean, unsocial the mother dog is. The shelter my friend worked in created a "mutternity ward". She said it was full of pregnant, aggressive strays whose puppies were just as aggressive from the day they were born, but puppies are cute and bring in more money, so who cares about the human/family adopting the aggressive puppy.
4. Those articles you see of shelters saving large volumes of dogs from the meat trade industry are rarely true. Instead most of those dogs are purchased from backyard breeders in the country of origin by the shelter (they are cheap compared to costs in the US), imported in to the US, then sold here with the sad, sob story attached to them, because well people believe it. And dogs with sad stories= big donations.
5. Adoption fees. Some shelters are still very reasonable, some have become insane. I saw a dog at a shelter by me that had an adoption fee of $900. Not kidding. Most of the fees are at least $450-500.
6. Adoption requirements. This is more common with small resecues that have decided to gate-keep adopting dogs. I get having some requirements or being sure the pet goes to a good home, but let's be realistic. I know of vets that have been denied adoption of a dog. I had a client who asked us to write a letter to a rescue because he was looking to adopt a boxer from them. He had two other boxers that he took impeccable care of. His male was still intact because it had a cardiac issue and we (cardiologist included) decided it wasn't safe/worth the anesthetic risk to neuter the dog. They declined adopting a boxer (that was fixed) to this guy because he had an intact male boxer at home. That medically could not be neutered. If you aren't home 24/7/365, with an 8 foot block fence, 5 acres of land and a magical unicorn good luck adopting from some places.
I could keep going but I will end here with the ridiculousness of things rescues have started doing.
So why get a purebred dog over a rescue? Ethical breeders breed for sound tempearments and health. The notion that mutts are healthier than purebreds is not accurate. There are some conditions more common among certain breeds, but an ethical breeder aims to breed to avoid those conditions/concerns. They spend hundreds to thousands health testing the parents. Hips, elbows, thyroid, cardiac, eyes, genetic testing. They don't breed dogs that don't pass health testing. They title their dogs in conformation or sports. You might think "well I don't care if the parents did well in those, I just want a pet". Ok, but that shows they have temperamentally sound dogs. Dogs that aren't well behaved or are aggressive are dismissed from these venues. It also shows they have good conformation, form and structure and that they aren't blowing their cruciate at only 2 years old.
Are purebred dogs more expensive? Sure. Upfront you will be paying about $2500-3500 give or take a bit depending on the breed, but they give you a health guarantee and will take the dog back at any point if you determine you can no longer keep the dog. So the dog is not ending up in the shelter system.
Also, people have to stop insisting you can find any breed you want at a shelter or rescue. I can guarantee I will make you lose this argument. With 200 AKC recognized dog breeds and over 300 dog breeds recognized world wide, I can give a list of breeds that would be unlikely if not impossible to find in shelter/rescue.
So to the shelter dumping $6500 on that aggressive French bulldog that keeps being returned for biting and sending people to the hospital, you are part of the problem. Also next time you hear someone wanting a purebred dog, support them. Help them be sure they find someone reputable and not a backyard breeder.
Last parting point: The US animal rescue/shelter industry is currently valued at $2.6 billion, I don't know any reputable breeder making anywhere near that. I don't know any reputable breeder that makes much, if anything off of the puppies they do produce and sell.
/End rant.
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Probs not my finest moment but I have 0 regrets. O brings in parvo pup. Doggo is very sick. O has $0. Discuss how severe parvo is and that even with aggressive tx pet may die also offered euth (p was lateral and basically nonresponsive). Offered O several options for payment. Well o leave ama cause $0. P dies later same day. BF calls and chews my tech out saying we told them it was a minor condition. I lost my ****. I called him back and informed he was greatly misinformed and of course per him we should've tx puppy for free. Guy hung up on me once while I was trying to explain the severity of parvo so I called him back and he continued insisting they could've paid so I told him I'd gladly take his card number for their outstanding bill😂 he hung up on me again😅
I am usually extremely docile and not confrontational at all. I feel bad for the pet but these ppl be fired. Sorry you're dumb. Pry wasn't worth my time of day but never say I told you parvo is minor. I don't F around with parvo.
I am usually extremely docile and not confrontational at all. I feel bad for the pet but these ppl be fired. Sorry you're dumb. Pry wasn't worth my time of day but never say I told you parvo is minor. I don't F around with parvo.
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Final thing to add: Owning a dog (any pet) should be a joyful, happy experience. Yes, we know pets will get sick, they will need medical care, there will be sad, unpredictable, not happy moments, but you shouldn't live in fear of your own dog. Expecting that people should be happy to take on behavioral train wrecks is wrong. No one WANTS to manage a dog with significant behavior issues. No one wants to have to rearrange their home, their schedule, alter their relationships, etc.
I recall this one copule coming in with their dog, looked like some sort of terrier mix. The dog was so aggressive. Both the man and woman had numerous scars from bites. They had done a ton of training, medications, adjusting schedules. They were living like prisoners in their own home, make a sudden movement and get bit by the dog, but you can't leave the house either because the dog would destroy the home if they weren't there. They came in because dog might have an ear infection. The man stated "we can't medicate this dog, if it requires applying medications, we will need to euthanize". I told them "that is ok, we have a medication that can be put in that will last for two weeks and you won't have to touch the dog," I literally watched this man's entire world collapse around him. He slumped down so hard as if I had dumped the entire weight of the world on his shoulders. He then with the heaviest of eyes looks back up and goes "can we euthanize anyway?"
Doggie got a ride to heaven that day. This poor couple had their entire lives exploded by a single aggressive dog. They tried so hard, they loved the dog because he wasn't like that 100% of the time, but living with a ticking time bomb 80% of the time, is not a way to live. Also, imagine the strain on that dog, so anxious, worked up that he is non-stop attacking, destroying, can't settle, can't sleep, consantly being bothered by the demons in his little head. I was able to let the dog finally rest that day as well as let the owners have some relief and bring some normalcy back to their world.
We don't force people to do chemotherapy on dogs with cancer, we have to stop forcing aggressive, behaviorally unsound dogs onto people as well.
I recall this one copule coming in with their dog, looked like some sort of terrier mix. The dog was so aggressive. Both the man and woman had numerous scars from bites. They had done a ton of training, medications, adjusting schedules. They were living like prisoners in their own home, make a sudden movement and get bit by the dog, but you can't leave the house either because the dog would destroy the home if they weren't there. They came in because dog might have an ear infection. The man stated "we can't medicate this dog, if it requires applying medications, we will need to euthanize". I told them "that is ok, we have a medication that can be put in that will last for two weeks and you won't have to touch the dog," I literally watched this man's entire world collapse around him. He slumped down so hard as if I had dumped the entire weight of the world on his shoulders. He then with the heaviest of eyes looks back up and goes "can we euthanize anyway?"
Doggie got a ride to heaven that day. This poor couple had their entire lives exploded by a single aggressive dog. They tried so hard, they loved the dog because he wasn't like that 100% of the time, but living with a ticking time bomb 80% of the time, is not a way to live. Also, imagine the strain on that dog, so anxious, worked up that he is non-stop attacking, destroying, can't settle, can't sleep, consantly being bothered by the demons in his little head. I was able to let the dog finally rest that day as well as let the owners have some relief and bring some normalcy back to their world.
We don't force people to do chemotherapy on dogs with cancer, we have to stop forcing aggressive, behaviorally unsound dogs onto people as well.
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Preach! No shame to anyone who chooses to adopt, but I enjoy the predictability of a purebred, ethically bred dog. I know the health of my dogs parents, grandparents, and great grandparents. I was informed when my dog’s sire was diagnosed with a (presumably non-hereditary) health condition so I could be aware and watch things more closely moving forward. I talk to his breeder frequently. I am in contact with owners of littermates. These are other benefits of well bred dogs over a shelter pet. Sure there can be breed-related health issues but my dog’s parents were screened before breeding. It doesn’t mean he can’t get sick ever, but I can be confident he won’t get this breed’s type of glaucoma.
If someone wants help learning what to look for, I am happy to help answer questions and help people make an informed decision!
Also, dog show and sport people can sometimes get a “bad reputation”, but 99% of the people I’ve met doing dog events have been wonderful people eager to help me learn. I know there are groups that are actively trying to get vet students to come to a dog show and learn and see what we do and what our sports entail (I think there’s students from Oregon going to a show in Albany OR next weekend? The hosts are so excited you’re going if anyone from SDN is attending). I’ve met some wonderful people through dogs and had more fun than I anticipated showing my dog over the last year. And it’s fun when you win, though success is not guaranteed.
(Edit don’t quote this photo of me because I’m gonna delete it in a couple days for privacy reasons.)
A year’s worth of his prizes.
Who’d ever guess this goober is a fancy show dog.
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This. All of this. The knowing so much information from so many generations and the support is so worth it.
This is nice of you to offer, I would be willing to help create a document with the information as well. I don't have a purebred yet, but I have done extensive research and can provide some guidance.
I recently went to a show. It was so amazing. It was a mix of conformation and sporting events and has just solidifed my decision to get a purebred. The only thing is I am still quite shy in public and I had a hard time just approaching people. Everyone looked so busy and there were just tents everywhere and I really had no idea what was going on, what each of the tents were for, etc. So I as kind of lost + shy and I only talked with a few people. Next time I go, I am going to try to approach more people. I just have no idea if I want to start with showing or start with sports and then get into showing. I have finally narrowed which breed I want to two breeds.
I love your dog. He is adorable. And proves my point about breeds you won't find in shelters. Not finding any of his breed floating around in shelters often. 🙂
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Just being nosy here. Which sports are you interested in?
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All of them. Lol.
Probably my tops are: dock diving, agility, fast cat, scent work.
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My recommendation would be to hang out at the ring of a breed you’re interested and come up to someone AFTER they show and just say Hi I’d love to chat with you about the breed if you’ve got time? I don’t mind if people want to talk before we go in the ring, but it is a time that I need to be focusing and sometimes I have to cut them off suddenly because we’re up. After is better. Usually after the breed judging is done people will have a little time. Most people will be happy to talk about their breed, truly. I get stopped all the time because people don’t know what mine is. If you need help interpreting a schedule or venue map I can try to help from afar next time you go.
The grooming/crating area can be chaos…it’s probably fine to ask a question of someone who isn’t doing anything. But if you’re looking to talk to someone in the grooming or crating area be especially aware of what they’re doing. If they’re actively grooming and prepping for the ring it might not be a good time to talk.
There have been a small handful of my breed in a shelter because of a basset puppy mill raid (they had all six basset breeds but mostly ‘regular’ bassets). The humane society wouldn’t let the breed rescue group take them but the club did pay for them to get genetic tested for our kind of glaucoma.
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We’re going to our first scentwork trial in two weekends. Barnhunt is fun too but not as available in my current state as it was in memphis.
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I was thinking of adding in herding too depending on which breed I end up with. I'm going to need to move, where I currently live is horrible for finding any dog events.
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Yeah we drive a lot because I live very rural. Our conformation class is a 2.5 hr drive each way for a 1-hour class. Luckily we have the hang of it good enough now so we don’t go to that very often anymore. Our scentwork trial in early March is 2.5 hours away, and the one in mid March is a 5 hour drive. In August I drove 9.5 hours to a show but usually I try to stick to 6 hours away or less. Which is still a long drive.
It looks like there may be a couple big shows in early March around where I know you live? At the state fairgrounds. So maybe not super close but closer than most. For conformation and obedience/rally at least.
It looks like there may be a couple big shows in early March around where I know you live? At the state fairgrounds. So maybe not super close but closer than most. For conformation and obedience/rally at least.
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I wish I had more free time, my work schedule at the time isn't conducive to that much travel. It'll likely be a few years before I even get a dog as I won't get one with my current kitty, she wouldn't respond well.
But the ones you're mentioning aren't far at all, I might have to check out at least the one weekend I'm off.
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The only fear I live in daily about my dogs and their temperaments is that I will be pinned down by a 13# dachshund (or two) and my face licked to death, in what my family has termed a “sneak attack” because these two just sneak up on you laying on the couch. 😂 That is the only type of fear I will ever tolerate with an animal I own and why I purchased two well bred ones, one with a history of good temperaments in the parents and my first one was a young adult with a known awesome temperament and retired from breeding after 2 litters. Everyone is always so shocked that I have nice dachshunds because they’ve only ever seen ****tily bred ones with bad temperaments that should never have been bred in the first place.
I did a ridiculous amount of research when trying to pick a breeder for my dachshunds and for my mom’s papillon. No one in a close state was that great for paps so she had to go all the way from MI to CT for her 🤷🏻♀️ I had breeders on the national clubs list tell me they don’t do XYZ health testing (it was usually CAER exams for paps) because “they haven’t had issues in their lines yet” and their adults “all see fine.” They are a breed known to have juvenile cataracts.
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A long haired dachshund is on my list of potential futures. I met the sweetest long haired dachshund working at a vet clinic in undergrad she made me fall in love.
Right now though, my top two for first dog will either be a nova scotia duck tolling retriever or a mini american shepherd.
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Popping in to say I love my purebred dog. I did a ton of breed research and breeder research before buying and I have not been disappointed. He is the best boy in every way. I always remind people that purebred dogs/breeders are good things.
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He is so stinking cute! Is he a basset fauve? I've been trying to figure out what my next dog would be when I've graduated and I'm really leaning towards smaller scruffy hounds for instance the PBGVs.
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Yes, he’s a Basset Fauve de Bretagne. I chose the breed over the other scruffy basset breeds because I liked the size (28-35 pounds-ish), didn’t want a (mostly) white dog again after having a Westie, and they have a lower incidence of epilepsy than a PBGV.
Thank you for sharing. I agree with most of your points- in an ideal world, there should only be well-bred dogs owned by people who have done significant research into the breed. I am like you, a former "Adopt Don't Shop" who now knows more. With that being said, I think the "Adopt or Shop Responsibly" is the most realistic for the current landscape surrounding pet overpopulation. Shelters are in crisis and while some dogs are not adoptable, many are. I have two absolutely incredible former shelter dogs (one who is a pit bull mix) and I don't think that happened by chance. I walked into the shelter with very specific criteria I was looking for in terms of grooming requirements, behavior, activity level, age, etc. I adopted adult dogs so that their temperament was likely not going to change significantly. Adopting out of foster homes is a great option because you have a good idea of what that pet will be like in a home, whether they are good around other dogs, other kids, etc. My dogs did come with their own behavioral challenges that I had to work through: one of them had separation anxiety and the other is dog reactive. I think more forgiveness should be given to animals with such challenges: mental health in humans has become so destigmatized in recent years and I think we should extend the same grace to pets. Just like a new puppy needs training, I worked with them and they are both doing fantastic. They are incredible loving, well behaved dogs who are examples of what shelter dogs can be. Personally, I would be terrified to adopt a puppy from a shelter because like you said, you have no idea what you are getting. But, there are millions of incredible, healthy, well behaved adult dogs that should not be overlooked. I think everyone has to consider their unique situation but if possible and done correctly, adopting a shelter mutt is a beautiful and rewarding experience.
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Not to talk you out of the mini aussie just sharing my experience. Granted my mini aussie is not the most well bred considering my boss rescued him from a breeding kennel that was going to euthanize him because he was missing hair. One bravecto later and he is fluffy again.
He is one smart cookie that's for sure but he still has some of the negative traits that full size aussies can carry: nipping and his high pitch scream from his hyperactive drive to be involved in everything. He is a little more reserved in his personality like some of the hearding breeds can be but I suspect part of that is due to his previous situation. I'm just glad he's not aggressive like some of the minis I've delt with. I'm hopeful for most of his behavior though since he is still a puppy and we are actively working on those things.
He has such a personality though. He always comes to my shower and licks the wall the water falls on. Actively watches TV with my husband. And is a fluffy dork. Poor guys gets car sick though so he hates having to go to work with me and I can't blame him.
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Also paging @Dinashadow
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Mine are both longhaireds 😍 I personally prefer them to short and wire haired dachshunds because they’re floofier 😂
The cream is still a baaaaby and just turned 10 months.
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Love my toller, definitely the best of the retrievers with some herding instinct.
Obviously not the breed for everyone though
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I can't explain the rage I felt this fall when the shelter we work with for 3rd year spays made my group give our spay dog back to them intact when we found out she was pregnant. They said "she's really cute so the puppies will be very adoptable!" I'm sorry, is your shelter empty? I don't think it is... And this was only after my group did nearly a week of patient care AM/PM, pre-op labs, etc etc. Glad you could sell her puppies for $300 apiece though, who's "shopping" now?
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I think all of us agree with you, especially if the client is self aware enough to know what they can and cannot handle. I think was DVMD is getting at is that many shelters/rescues are turning shady in a big way to where it's difficult for well educated clients to find the appropriate dog. This doesn't even take into account the uneducated clients.
As a +1 to the discussion, starting last summer, there was an increase of illnesses in shelter dogs in the Denver area with things like distemper. What was found was some local area rescues getting rescues from the usual suspects (Texas, New Mexico) and "adopting" them directly off the van. No quarantine. No time in a brick and mortar location of any kind. The department of ag straight up implied that if we're going to hold pet stores to lofty goals of good care and humane treatment before, during, and after acquisition, shelters need to meet those same standards. Our number of rescues has doubled since 2015. That's shady.
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I’m certainly not discounting your experience, but I think it’s worth pointing out that there’s a big difference between a BYB “mini aussie” bred indiscriminately because they’re small/probably merle/have a uterus and a well bred Miniature American Shepherd. I’ve had similar experiences with “mini aussies” and they’re rampant in my state among the rodeo/ag community (seems like half the “Ranchy” people are BYBing mini aussies or corgis right now and I hate it), but the well bred Miniature American Shepherds I’ve met at dog shows and sport events have had very different personalities. They’re much more focused, confident dogs when people are breeding responsibly and factoring temperament into the equation. This goes for most breeds, actually. A well bred, well socialized chihuahua is a lot different than a bitey trembling thing we see most commonly in vet clinics. And sure some breeds are bred to be aloof or even aggressive or whatever but it’s a whole different world when talking about ethically bred dogs and to compare one to a byb pet is really apples to oranges in my personal opinion.
Ah, I see they’ve “leveled up” from the parvo wagon they were 8 years ago when I was an intern in your area. I swear like most of our parvo puppies were from that type of rescue.
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A local “rescue” hoarding/animal cruelty situation near me just got their dogs seized and there are some confirmed distemper cases from them too 🙃
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If just like to add that of course not all shelters/rescues are bad (of course). We always spay aborted, our adoptions were a flat $30 including sterilization, vax HWT. We had a mandatory quarantine. We did behavioral euthanasia constantly. Some people just get too caught up in “saving them all” which is just not possible. But there are animals in the shelter system worth saving, and are there through no fault of their own 🙂
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Yeah, I was thinking about how dirty PBGVs would get being so low to the ground and light-colored. Interesting, I didn't know about the lower epilepsy rates, I'll have to look more into them! I wouldn't be getting a dog for at least 3-5 years anyway so there is lots of time to mull over it.
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@DVMDream
1000% to everything you have said. I personally would never get a shelter dog just from the standpoint of wanting to do tons of performance sports (currently my golden and I do Dock diving, Scentwork, Fast CAT, CAT, Rally Obedience and Agility). I also have two cavaliers and we are trying to get into conformation with them. I love supporting all reputable breeders, and though my performance bitch did not work out as a breeding girl, we still have tons of great plans with her (including going to Rally Nationals this year!) There is just nothing like supporting a reputable breeder and their dogs to get the kind of dog you WANT and NEED in your life. Shelter dogs absolutely have their place, but it will not be in my household. I fully support anyone wanting to adopt from shelters/rescues but owners need to be aware that they could be in for a lot of behavioral issues. and training The vast majority of people are not very in-tune with their dogs' wants or needs and I find most owners also don't put forth the effort these rescue dogs need.
Please support reputable breeders!!!
1000% to everything you have said. I personally would never get a shelter dog just from the standpoint of wanting to do tons of performance sports (currently my golden and I do Dock diving, Scentwork, Fast CAT, CAT, Rally Obedience and Agility). I also have two cavaliers and we are trying to get into conformation with them. I love supporting all reputable breeders, and though my performance bitch did not work out as a breeding girl, we still have tons of great plans with her (including going to Rally Nationals this year!) There is just nothing like supporting a reputable breeder and their dogs to get the kind of dog you WANT and NEED in your life. Shelter dogs absolutely have their place, but it will not be in my household. I fully support anyone wanting to adopt from shelters/rescues but owners need to be aware that they could be in for a lot of behavioral issues. and training The vast majority of people are not very in-tune with their dogs' wants or needs and I find most owners also don't put forth the effort these rescue dogs need.
Please support reputable breeders!!!
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Don't even get me started on the "cowboy corgi" trend (corgi x Australian cattle dog) 😬
YES! I worked with an amazing shelter as a prevet which was the reason I pursued a career in vet med. Some shelters are incredible and some are not. Same thing with breeders- some are incredible and some are not. Like every problem in this world, the answer is not one extreme or the other: it's a mix of the two that creates the best solution!
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I completely agree!
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The "walked into the shelter with very specific criteria" is EXACTLY what my post is meaning. The entire "adopt don't shop" mantra has ignored this aspect, they really believe all dogs can fit into any home. That is part of the problem. I have had many when I start saying "I am looking for these things in a dog" go "who cares, there are dogs that need homes, just get a dog and give it a home." They don't get it. And it bleeds into the shelter environment enough that even if you do go in with criteria you can run into someone ignoring your list. The other thing that I did not mention that some shelters have started to do is they have started to put problem dogs on behavior meds and not disclose this. It isn't uncommon for the shelters at least near me, but I know many others do this too, put the dogs on trazodone +/- gabapentin, etc. Enough for the dogs to be chilled out for long enough that someone doesn't see the dog's true colors/behaviors. Then they adopt them out and don't disclose the medication the dogs had been on.
You should be able to learn this information and if you are getting a repsonsible foster that you can actually speak to, you will. But sometimes the shelter just doesn't divulge what the foster has said about these aspects.
If you are ok and happy with managing those that is entirely your choice and your decision. We should not require others to do the same. I have had clients that are gung-ho ready go manage diabetes in their pets and I have had others elect euthanasia. Neither option is incorrect. Everyone is different. Everyone's ability to manage health issues (behavioral issues are health issues) is different.
Comparing human behavioral health to dog/animal behavioral health just can't be done. We are still eons behind on human behavioral health medicine. However, in humans we have a tool we will never have in animals: Communication. Humans can go to therapy, talk, discuss, they can tell their doctor "yeah, this medication is NOT it, we need to try something else." This is a BIG part of human behavioral health medicine that will never exist for animals. The other thing in humans is that if you have a human that is say insanely aggressive (think murderer) due to being a psychopath, we have avenues for housing them. I am not to say the jail system is perfect by any means, but compared to how you'd have to house an insanely aggressive dog, we have better resources. I have seen the argument of dog sanctuaries for dogs that have severe aggression and it just doesn't work, they just get locked in a cage, they can't be let out, the kennel just gets hosed out to clean it. It isn't fair.
I am glad it has worked out for you and you can manage the dog reactivity and separation anxiety. Not everyone is able to though. While management can work for a large portion of the time, the underlying issues are always still ever present. You can never trust a dog reactive dog 100% around other dogs. Ever. They may do well for months, even years and the suddenly display the behavior again. Same with separation anxiety. I have a cat with separation anxiety, 80%+ of the time, the management methods I have done work great, but sometimes they don't. And when they don't she screams, attacks the bear, drags her feathers around and is not happy. Now I am ok dealing with it, because it is mild, but I still feel bad when she has an episode. Some people don't want to deal with it. That is their option.
The big point I was making was pointed out beautifully by battie:
It is the shadiness that has developed within shelters/rescues that is the problem. How can anyone be sure they are going to get a behaviorally sound dog if they will not be honest? If they drug the dogs, don't disclose bite histories, ship them out to other shelters if they do bite, etc.
I am not saying every rescue/shelter is dishonest, but it has become prevalent enough numerous vets have noticed it. So while there are definitely great dogs in shelters that need homes, how do you make sure you are able to find them and find an honest shelter/rescue? I haven't found a way yet to "vet" rescues/shelters. I can "vet" and research a breeder to be sure they are ethical. I had an amazing shelter dog growing up. Best dog ever. I wish things hadn't turned this direction because it does ruin it for the good dogs in the shelter system. It also ruins it for the good shelters/rescues that do things correctly.
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CONGRATS! That is so exciting.
Cavaliers are another breed on my list of wanting to own. (The list might be a bit embarassingly long to be honest.
)You've made a good point- there should be a better way to "vet" shelters outlining minimum standards they must adhere to, ethical practices, etc. I'm familiar with the shelters in my area so I was easily able to tell where I wanted to go adopt a dog from. Others may not be as familiar. I hope this changes in the future.
