Should I switch from pre-pharmacy to pre-dental?

[lashl0]

So I've been hearing about all the horrid aspects of the oversaturated job market for pharmacists and the poor working conditions in retail and that getting a residency is nearly impossible. I go to a state school and just completed by freshman year. So far I've taken:

• Orgo I + lab
• Anatomy and physiology I and II
• English 101, 102
• Microbiology
• Calculus

and other classes that are also pre-requisites for pre-dental. I have a 4.0 and am already signed up for the PCAT. Seeing the poor ranking of the job on the US News ranking and poor outlook is what really made me start questioning my choice. The pharmacy school at my university denies over-saturation and says that pharmacists will always be essential and don't shut up about provider status saving everyone.

I've thought about pre-dental before but was too scared to follow through. Do you guys think it's time to get out before it's too late? Has anyone made this switch? Is the dental field looking good? (it's the #2 job in America according to US News).

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[zelman]

Get out, for sure. If you're interested in dental...I don't know? I'm no dentist job market expert. Check on that sub-forum?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[lashl0]

Get out, for sure. If you're interested in dental...I don't know? I'm no dentist job market expert. Check on that sub-forum?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

if you had to go back to pre-pharm today, would you do it? Do you know of any other health professions that have good outlooks?

 

[zelman]

if you had to go back to pre-pharm today, would you do it? Do you know of any other health professions that have good outlooks?

I'd become an NP or DO instead.

 

[Screwtape]

Pharm and dentistry are almost two of the most opposite health careers possible. Why is dentistry your next choice? You still have lots of time. I would look into other careers whether that be in healthcare or not. Dentistry has its own problems, as does every career.

 

[lashl0]

Pharm and dentistry are almost two of the most opposite health careers possible. Why is dentistry your next choice? You still have lots of time. I would look into other careers whether that be in healthcare or not. Dentistry has its own problems, as does every career.

Honestly I used to think I was too stupid to go to dental or medical school so I never even considered them. I like the lifestyle that comes with being a dentist and also medical school is more expensive and takes longer. Also the job outlook for dentists is great and for pharmacy it's not so hot

 

[confidentandgood]

Honestly I used to think I was too stupid to go to dental or medical school so I never even considered them.

With a 4.0 after those courses, I promise you are more than capable of making it to dental school, stats-wise.

 

[Frychicken]

Honestly I used to think I was too stupid to go to dental or medical school so I never even considered them. I like the lifestyle that comes with being a dentist and also medical school is more expensive and takes longer. Also the job outlook for dentists is great and for pharmacy it's not so hot

Everybody always talks about the lifestyle, but what it comes down to is this: would/could you imagine yourself working in somebody's mouth day in and out for 25-30 years?

 

[PharmtoCS]

Computer science has one of the best job markets right now and does not require you to borrow well over $200k and spend another 4 years in school. It's something to consider if you have the aptitude for it.

 

[ldiot]

I'd go for dental school. You'll probably make more money and have a more relaxed work environment. After a few years experience you'll be able to deal with about anything you see in your sleep.

Plus, more dentists own their practice. You are not only "working in someones mouth" but also running a business. I imagine later in life you could sell your practice for a good chunk on top of the good salary.

 

[Apotheker2015]

So I've been hearing about all the horrid aspects of the oversaturated job market for pharmacists and the poor working conditions in retail and that getting a residency is nearly impossible. I go to a state school and just completed by freshman year. So far I've taken:

• Orgo I + lab
• Anatomy and physiology I and II
• English 101, 102
• Microbiology
• Calculus

and other classes that are also pre-requisites for pre-dental. I have a 4.0 and am already signed up for the PCAT. Seeing the poor ranking of the job on the US News ranking and poor outlook is what really made me start questioning my choice. The pharmacy school at my university denies over-saturation and says that pharmacists will always be essential and don't shut up about provider status saving everyone.

I've thought about pre-dental before but was too scared to follow through. Do you guys think it's time to get out before it's too late? Has anyone made this switch? Is the dental field looking good? (it's the #2 job in America according to US News).

As far as I know you do not have to switch or declare pre-anything. The pre-requisites are actually very similar for medical, pharmacy, veterinary and dental school. You can major in Origami and still apply to any of those professions.

 

[lashl0]

As far as I know you do not have to switch or declare pre-anything. The pre-requisites are actually very similar for medical, pharmacy, veterinary and dental school. You can major in Origami and still apply to any of those professions.

Sorry I forgot to mention this in the intro. So the pharmacy program at my school is a 2+4 program whereas for dental school I would need a bachelors degree. This is mainly why this choice js so hard.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Sorry I forgot to mention this in the intro. So the pharmacy program at my school is a 2+4 program whereas for dental school I would need a bachelors degree. This is mainly why this choice js so hard.

You said that all the "horrid aspects of the oversaturated job market for pharmacists and the poor working conditions in retail and that getting a residency is nearly impossible" are making you rethink wanting to go into pharmacy. Truth is I heard the same things when I was taking my pre-requisites, applying to pharmacy school, while in pharmacy school and now that I am a pharmacist I still hear the same. I graduated with 5 offers and since then I have always had a job. Managed to bump my pay in less than a year by $15,000, a bonus estimated to $15K to $18K per year and excellent benefits. I did not go through the residency process but everyone who graduated with me who applied for residencies got one. They all did. Sure, maybe coming from a top tier school helped those people when applying for residencies even if they did not have stellar grades. Some even failed courses and still got in. Thus, saying that getting into residency is impossible sounds more like a myth to me. In addition, most dental schools require completion of 90 credits to be considered; i.e., 3 years of undergraduate studies.

Would I do it again if say we were to go back in time? No, I would go for a profession that has a more defined, established and recognized scope of practice and perhaps, for the lack of a better term, higher self esteem as a community to demand pay directly proportional to experience and training. That might apply more to hospital pharmacy, though. Doing a year of residency does not increase your salary. And in retail, in many states we are too chicken to demand a mandatory lunch break and two additional 15 minute breaks and definitely too chicken to demand to be paid time and a half for overtime. Look at nurses, they unionize, revolt and typically get what they want; rather always AND best of all, when nurses go on strike at a hospital many of their responsibilities that can be done by pharmacists get by default dumped on pharmacists. Classic. Pharmacists say nothing. They just hunch over a little more and carry the additional load.

If your choice is driven by having to complete a bachelor's degree then it sounds like you have some thinking to do and furthermore, some shadowing to do and perhaps even other careers to consider, as well.

Best of luck!

Apotheker2015

 

[PAtoPharm]

.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Sorry if I already asked you this in another thread, but are you working for a retail chain right now? Just wondering if the $15k pay bump after a year happened in a retail or hospital setting.

Regarding your last paragraph about not doing it again, the profession not having the backbone to demand better pay, scope of practice, etc. -- to me, one of the biggest disappointments is that the APhA is not really making any progress towards getting provider status legislation passed. It's like the field isn't making any progress at all. On the other hand, like you said, if the nurse lobby wanted to push for the same kind of legislative changes to be made, they'd absolutely be victorious. After failing out of anesthesia PA school with an F and crashing my GPA to somewhere in the 3.44 - 3.46 range, I doubt I'd have any shot of getting in, but it makes me wonder if I should turn down my pharmacy school acceptance and apply next year to the new DO school that opened up about 40 minutes away from where I live.

With all due respect, I think that your question would derail the original intent of the thread. You should probably open a thread just for that. Just like you have the right to get answers to your question this person does, too. To me it's just common courtesy to others. But again, you're free to do as you see fit.

 

[lashl0]

You said that all the "horrid aspects of the oversaturated job market for pharmacists and the poor working conditions in retail and that getting a residency is nearly impossible" are making you rethink wanting to go into pharmacy. Truth is I heard the same things when I was taking my pre-requisites, applying to pharmacy school, while in pharmacy school and now that I am a pharmacist I still hear the same. I graduated with 5 offers and since then I have always had a job. Managed to bump my pay in less than a year by $15,000, a bonus estimated to $15K to $18K per year and excellent benefits. I did not go through the residency process but everyone who graduated with me who applied for residencies got one. They all did. Sure, maybe coming from a top tier school helped those people when applying for residencies even if they did not have stellar grades. Some even failed courses and still got in. Thus, saying that getting into residency is impossible sounds more like a myth to me. In addition, most dental schools require completion of 90 credits to be considered; i.e., 3 years of undergraduate studies.

Would I do it again if say we were to go back in time? No, I would go for a profession that has a more defined, established and recognized scope of practice and perhaps, for the lack of a better term, higher self esteem as a community to demand pay directly proportional to experience and training. That might apply more to hospital pharmacy, though. Doing a year of residency does not increase your salary. And in retail, in many states we are too chicken to demand a mandatory lunch break and two additional 15 minute breaks and definitely to chicken to demand to be paid time and a half for overtime. Look at nurses, they unionize, revolt and typically get what they want; rather always AND best of all, when nurses go on strike at a hospital many of their responsibilities that can be done by pharmacists get by default dumped on pharmacists. Classic. Pharmacists say nothing. They just hunch over a little more and carry the additional load.

If you choice is driven by having to complete a bachelor's degree then it sounds like you have some thinking to do and furthermore, some shadowing to do and perhaps even other careers to consider, as well.

Best of luck!

Apotheker2015

Thank you so much for your answer. I've worked so hard for pharmacy school and have a bunch of pharmacy exposure hours and shadowing, etc. and do not want to walk away from it all. I will probably stay and continue to work hard and hopefully everything will work out. Thanks again for shedding a more positive light!!

 

[Got Em]

Thank you so much for your answer. I've worked so hard for pharmacy school and have a bunch of pharmacy exposure hours and shadowing, etc. and do not want to walk away from it all. I will probably stay and continue to work hard and hopefully everything will work out. Thanks again for shedding a more positive light!!

It is extremely difficult to know what it's like being a pharmacist without being one, especially retail pharmacy. The day to day grind can be demanding and I know only a few pharmacists that love their retail job. Even fewer would do it if you cut the pay in half.

The question is whether you think you'll be happy being a pharmacist or a dentist (figure this out first), and let the other stuff slide. No one can predict what it will be like in 10 years. If everything else is equal, then yes, dentists have a much brighter outlook than pharmacists, in terms of both job prospects, money, and autonomy.

Also, I went back to med school at 27 and many people in my class were in their 30s. It's not too late for anything man. Good luck brother.

 

[PharmtoCS]

Thank you so much for your answer. I've worked so hard for pharmacy school and have a bunch of pharmacy exposure hours and shadowing, etc. and do not want to walk away from it all. I will probably stay and continue to work hard and hopefully everything will work out. Thanks again for shedding a more positive light!!

That time you have spent so far is a sunk cost. You aren't necessarily going to do better in pharmacy compared to dentistry, even after spending this time researching the profession and shadowing. Be glad that you haven't experienced a much worse sunk cost of being $100k+ in loans when you're halfway through school and decide that pharmacy isn't for you, yet you force yourself finish your degree while wishing you did something else.

 

[lashl0]

That time you have spent so far is a sunk cost. You aren't necessarily going to do better in pharmacy compared to dentistry, even after spending this time researching the profession and shadowing. Be glad that you haven't experienced a much worse sunk cost of being $100k+ in loans when you're halfway through school and decide that pharmacy isn't for you, yet you force yourself finish your degree while wishing you did something else.

Yeah, I don't know I keep changing my mind like everyday... The cost between dental school and pharmacy school in my state is drastic so I'm not sure. pharmacy is~$25k/year. Dental is ~100k/year

 

[lashl0]

Does anyone know about how much shadowing hours and other stuff that one may need for dental? what major would be the best? Also how do I get close enough to my professors to get LORs from them??

 

[confidentandgood]

Does anyone know about how much shadowing hours and other stuff that one may need for dental? what major would be the best? Also how do I get close enough to my professors to get LORs from them??

1. ~100 hours is considered safe for most schools, and it's ideal to shadow a few different practices.
2. Major in what you enjoy and whatever will yield a high cGPA/sGPA.
3. Go to office hours and show commitment to doing well in the course. Keep in touch via e-mail. Be an active participant.

 

[knight on horse]

Yes

And if you can, get into orthodontics

Not sure that there are dentistry options besides looking into patients' mouths so better make sure you are ok with that, lul

 

[Rukn]

Is this a real question?

 

[atnguy13]

Truth is I heard the same things when I was taking my pre-requisites, applying to pharmacy school, while in pharmacy school and now that I am a pharmacist I still hear the same. I graduated with 5 offers and since then I have always had a job. Managed to bump my pay in less than a year by $15,000, a bonus estimated to $15K to $18K per year and excellent benefits.
Apotheker2015

When did you finish pharmacy school? & What health professions would you go for instead of pharmacy?

 

[Apotheker2015]

Had

When did you finish pharmacy school? & What health professions would you go for instead of pharmacy?

Sure, I graduated last year.
Had I been in my 20s, instead of my 30s when the time came to decide on a professional path, I would have probably gone through medical school. Had I known then what I know now about pharmacy and medicine, though, I honestly would have gone the engineering route. All that said, I am pretty happy with my choice. Pharmacy was very much a pragmatic decision for me. There was no vision from god or anything like that. Among others, I wanted a profession that would grant me professional license; the "doctor" title/ doctoral training even if I knew no one would ever call me doctor; 120K+ to start and I wanted my profession to be in steady demand - relatively speaking. Retail pharmacy does all those for me and I think it will for a while or at least until I decide to check out and retire in a tropical paradise overseas.

 

[atnguy13]

Had
Pharmacy was very much a pragmatic decision for me. There was no vision from god or anything like that. Among others, I wanted a profession that would grant me professional license; the "doctor" title/ doctoral training even if I knew no one would ever call me doctor; 120K+ to start and I wanted my profession to be in steady demand - relatively speaking. Retail pharmacy does all those for me and I think it will for a while or at least until I decide to check out and retire in a tropical paradise overseas.

You walked in with the same reasons why I'm pursuing. I'm planning on applying this cycle and having cold feet for all the negative comments about pharmacy on this website, rarely do I see a pharmacist on here say positive things about pharmacy. Would you mind sharing some insight from the other end? Things you wish you knew before entering the field (positive or negative)? More positive light into your profession?

 

[Apotheker2015]

You walked in with the same reasons why I'm pursuing. I'm planning on applying this cycle and having cold feet for all the negative comments about pharmacy on this website, rarely do I see a pharmacist on here say positive things about pharmacy. Would you mind sharing some insight from the other end? Things you wish you knew before entering the field (positive or negative)? More positive light into your profession?

Sure, I can share a bit more. I should start by saying that I derive satisfaction from perfecting a skill. To give you a personal example, I am an avid tennis player and I am constantly working to improve my technique, shots, power and directional control. I don't have to play a match and win in order to enjoy tennis. It's the getting better at it that keeps me coming back to the court. The same applies to being a pharmacist. Being good at it gets me through most of the negatives that come with dealing with people in what is considered more of a customer service occupation than a patient care one. Yes, people will drive you crazy but where you work is in part your choice and you have some control over that. Some people are ok with dodging bullets to get to work. Others won't leave a toxic environment quickly enough. Again, I graduated last year. I am older and it might be different for me. Patients tend to not do the things they do to younger new grads. Even when I was an intern patients always I assumed I was the manager. Now that is separate from people having respect for my profession or assuming that I may not know as much as a caucasian pharmacist because I am ethnic. Does it bother me? Yes, sometimes, but that usually means I am really tired and that the person is vicious.

As I mentioned before, pharmacy is a means to an end for me. It affords me to do the things that I want to do. If you told me to sweep floors at this salary, I would actually do it in a heart beat. I'm not sure I can tell you much more than what I have said. Those who are going into pharmacy thinking that pharmacist will eventually get provider status and prescriptive authority will likely be disappointed. Had I wanted those things I would have gone to medical school. None of those make my heart beat faster. So if your reasons are similar to mine, then pharmacy might just work for you. You also don't have to be stuck at a pharmacy as a pharmacist for 20 years. You can get a combined PharmD/MBA and be the next pharmacist your boss thinks of promoting.

A lot of pharmacists are miserable because most do not have a personality, or a spine to speak assertively to staff, colleagues and patients. Many pharmacy students go straight from high school to college and then to pharmacy school. They graduate without ever really having had a job. having had to coach staff or tell them what to do. Everything I have said is of course, my subjective view. Others might disagree and that's fine. I am not posting to entice debate or convince others of my opinion. You asked, I shared.

 

[atnguy13]

Those who are going into pharmacy thinking that pharmacist will eventually get provider status and prescriptive authority will likely be disappointed. Had I wanted those things I would have gone to medical school. None of those make my heart beat faster. So if your reasons are similar to mine, then pharmacy might just work for you. You also don't have to be stuck at a pharmacy as a pharmacist for 20 years. You can get a combined PharmD/MBA and be the next pharmacist your boss thinks of promoting.

Thank you for taking the time to share your story. I am interested in the clinical position as a pharmacist. I know you work in retail, but I'm sure you know much more about it than me. Would you say if someone were to want to do clinical, they should just go to med school or PA since theres extra schooling and pharmacy school can be just as much as med school these days? I don't care much for being able to prescribe medication but rather work with patients in more than just a customer service setting. Sort of off topic but I’ve been kinda interested in med school (possibly because the people I surround myself with are pre-med) but I know I would not want to spend that much more time in school and my GPA is not at all competitive to apply, so my anatomy professor suggested PA however my priorities are more set on the 'status' and 100K to start. Im getting indecisive now that I'm getting so close to applying, I don't want to question whether I reach my full potential in life years down the road. What do you think?

 

[ldiot]

Dental? Probably less stress and more money than pharmacy. Plus as a dentist it is much more realistic that you can run your own business if you choose to do so.

As the other poster mentioned, if you are going to pharmacy school because you want to treat patients and perform clinical duties, why aren't you applying to medical school? Sure you will be answering questions that people have about their medications and giving recommendations but even more often you will be operating a cash register at a drive up window or trying to find the latest Dr. Oz product on the shelf that matches the newspaper clipping some old fart handed you.

 

[PAtoPharm]

.

 

[mustang sally]

Go for whatever career you think will make you happiest. Just make sure you go into it with eyes wide open and try to minimize your student loan debt.

I know nothing about dentistry, so I really can't comment. All of the negative things that you read about pharmacy on here are pretty much true, despite what other people may try to argue. Doesn't mean people don't find jobs as pharmacists every day, just have to be realistic in your expectations.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Thank you for taking the time to share your story. I am interested in the clinical position as a pharmacist. I know you work in retail, but I'm sure you know much more about it than me. Would you say if someone were to want to do clinical, they should just go to med school or PA since theres extra schooling and pharmacy school can be just as much as med school these days? I don't care much for being able to prescribe medication but rather work with patients in more than just a customer service setting. Sort of off topic but I’ve been kinda interested in med school (possibly because the people I surround myself with are pre-med) but I know I would not want to spend that much more time in school and my GPA is not at all competitive to apply, so my anatomy professor suggested PA however my priorities are more set on the 'status' and 100K to start. Im getting indecisive now that I'm getting so close to applying, I don't want to question whether I reach my full potential in life years down the road. What do you think?

I have to agree with @mustang sally to an extent. Do whatever you think will make you the happiest and go into it with clear expectations. While all the negatives are true, all the positives are also true. Every field will have its pros and cons. We all have different priorities and everyone's priorities are valid. Make sure that you define what those priorities are and assess whether those are priorities that will keep you wanting to go to work but not just for the paycheck. Sure, I wanted $120K to start but I also mentioned that I derive satisfaction from being good at what I do. Thus, my expectations are rather low and that works for me. I care more about what putting up with the negatives of being a pharmacist allows me to do. It really comes down to being a "glass half full or half empty" type of person. You either allow the negatives to rule your experience or not. It's that simple.

Many pharmacists complain and complain about retail pharmacy and being "diminished" to answering questions about Dr. Oz's latest endorsement. Yet, they don't get out. No, they stay; just like prostitutes do. If it is so horrible, then get out. Do something about it. Truth is that everyone serves a purpose. Manning a drive thru window serves a purpose and so does having to keep up with Dr. Oz or whoever. Counseling serves a purpose as banal as the questions may be sometimes. It is very easy to forget that not everyone has the knowledge that we have. If you mind counseling on 40 Emergency Department antibiotic scripts a day, well, then get the f*ck out or tap into that swiss trust fund, that I am certain you do not have, until you find a job that allows you to pick and choose those duties that are not beneath you. Too many pharmacists complain too often. We all knew what we were getting into.

Being a pharmacist that does not allow any religious nonsense or self-righteous beliefs to get in the way of practicing pharmacy also serves a purpose. Being that pharmacist that patients know has no issue with dispensing plan B or contraceptives also serves a purpose. In all honestly, I get paid quite well to serve my purpose. I embrace it all; the register, the drive-thru, the damn phone that won't stop ringing - all of it. And it is OK because I knew all of this was part of it and it was a conscious decision. When it comes down to retail, what company you work for and who you work with will either balance it out and make it all good or it will make it hell. It is not just because it is retail. Others might disagree. It's not open for debate.

I really cannot tell you much about hospital pharmacy except that it is not for me. Dealing with those preceptors I had during my acute care rotations on a daily basis and their egos would make me a miserable person and pharmacist. I did well through all my acute care rotations and other hospital rotations because I set my mind to do so but those are not my type of people. I can't help you there.

Since you asked, though, my frank opinion for you is that you have all the time in the world. You are not in your mid 30s and I think that your reasons should include more than just salary and status. But again, that is all up to you. Trust a perfect stranger on this one. DO YOU and no one else.

*Steps off soap box*

Best,

Apotheker2015

 

[Humble Sloth]

So I've been hearing about all the horrid aspects of the oversaturated job market for pharmacists and the poor working conditions in retail and that getting a residency is nearly impossible. I go to a state school and just completed by freshman year. So far I've taken:

• Orgo I + lab
• Anatomy and physiology I and II
• English 101, 102
• Microbiology
• Calculus

and other classes that are also pre-requisites for pre-dental. I have a 4.0 and am already signed up for the PCAT. Seeing the poor ranking of the job on the US News ranking and poor outlook is what really made me start questioning my choice. The pharmacy school at my university denies over-saturation and says that pharmacists will always be essential and don't shut up about provider status saving everyone.

I've thought about pre-dental before but was too scared to follow through. Do you guys think it's time to get out before it's too late? Has anyone made this switch? Is the dental field looking good? (it's the #2 job in America according to US News).

"Provider status" thanks for the giggle man. I have a feeling Provider status is going to supply me with years humor just like MTM gave me at least five years of laughs. Dental is much better in terms of pay and owning your own practice. It's important to go into pharmacy with realistic expectations and treating patients in a clinical setting is not a realistic expectation for a pharmacist.

 

[hoober]

Grass is greener...dental school tuition and the ensuing debt is insane. A 400k debt coming out of dental school is not uncommon. (if you're looking at schools, look at total cost...there's some hefty fees to be paid every year.) Scholarships/loan repayment programs are extremely competitive.

Even at my state school, total cost for dental school is estimated to be ~370k (all 4 years). Absolute insanity. Yet people still take out the absolutely crippling loans to go to dental schools.

Also consider the end goal is to own a practice...which is NOT CHEAP. Tack that on with your crippling student loans. If you think you're getting anywhere near 200k without a practice you're a fool. I've seen posts about an estimated 500k to make a practice from scratch (not recommended, and total start up cost will vary obviously). Best way seems to be to try and buy an existing practice from older dentists...

Growing concerns about a saturation of the dental field as well. It's conflicting from what I've read. No idea which side is right. Some say the job prospects are just lovely. Others...not so much. I'm personally more inclined to believe that the dental field is getting saturated. Not at pharmacy levels of course. But with a potential 400k+ debt coming out of school it's worrying.

But wow some of the posts are just way too optimistic. I did consider dental. Strongly. But right now, unless your state school is decent with tuition/costs, you're coming out with crippling debt. You put yourself into even more debt by getting a practice. And then you're stuck.

Your work environment shouldn't be more relaxed. Not with that amount of debt. You should be praying for a massive influx of patients.

Income based repayment only staves off the inevitable.

Do more research into dental. Particularly the debt.

Dental school debt >>>>>Pharmacy school debt. (I get that this is variable. Don't chew my head off for this).
Dental salary>>Pharmacy salary

You better love dental to deal with the debt. It'll only get worse from here.

And only a fool would go into dental school thinking they'll be able to specialize. Be realistic about your choices. Also note that to specialize will typically take 2+ years, and also typically have insane tuition. Yay more debt!

So a lot to consider. Dental is not all sunshine and roses like some people will make it out to be. Tuitions are rising fast.

 

[knight on horse]

The middle class is being screwed right now and liking it. Dental is better but there is always the danger of a bubble. The schools make bank (and the banks) but then you have to find a job. It's not their problem anymore

Orthodontics is amazing though

 

[PikminOC]

I'd become an NP or DO instead.

Why not md

 

[PikminOC]

I'd go for dental school. You'll probably make more money and have a more relaxed work environment. After a few years experience you'll be able to deal with about anything you see in your sleep.

Plus, more dentists own their practice. You are not only "working in someones mouth" but also running a business. I imagine later in life you could sell your practice for a good chunk on top of the good salary.

Check the dental site on sdn. It's very expensive to run your own practice nowadays. More are working for corporate than before

 

[zelman]

Why not md

My understanding is that a DO is the same except you can't become a surgeon and it's less competitive to get into school and residency. Is there another difference?

 

[PikminOC]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_MD_and_DO_in_the_United_States
I thought they could become surgeons. Idk

 

[kidsaremypassion]

Grass is greener...dental school tuition and the ensuing debt is insane. A 400k debt coming out of dental school is not uncommon. (if you're looking at schools, look at total cost...there's some hefty fees to be paid every year.) Scholarships/loan repayment programs are extremely competitive.

Even at my state school, total cost for dental school is estimated to be ~370k (all 4 years). Absolute insanity. Yet people still take out the absolutely crippling loans to go to dental schools.

Also consider the end goal is to own a practice...which is NOT CHEAP. Tack that on with your crippling student loans. If you think you're getting anywhere near 200k without a practice you're a fool. I've seen posts about an estimated 500k to make a practice from scratch (not recommended, and total start up cost will vary obviously). Best way seems to be to try and buy an existing practice from older dentists...

Growing concerns about a saturation of the dental field as well. It's conflicting from what I've read. No idea which side is right. Some say the job prospects are just lovely. Others...not so much. I'm personally more inclined to believe that the dental field is getting saturated. Not at pharmacy levels of course. But with a potential 400k+ debt coming out of school it's worrying.

But wow some of the posts are just way too optimistic. I did consider dental. Strongly. But right now, unless your state school is decent with tuition/costs, you're coming out with crippling debt. You put yourself into even more debt by getting a practice. And then you're stuck.

Your work environment shouldn't be more relaxed. Not with that amount of debt. You should be praying for a massive influx of patients.

Income based repayment only staves off the inevitable.

Do more research into dental. Particularly the debt.

Dental school debt >>>>>Pharmacy school debt. (I get that this is variable. Don't chew my head off for this).
Dental salary>>Pharmacy salary

You better love dental to deal with the debt. It'll only get worse from here.

And only a fool would go into dental school thinking they'll be able to specialize. Be realistic about your choices. Also note that to specialize will typically take 2+ years, and also typically have insane tuition. Yay more debt!

So a lot to consider. Dental is not all sunshine and roses like some people will make it out to be. Tuitions are rising fast.

Just editing the above in red, to say that not all dental residences charge tuition. Peds and OMFS largely have GME funding, especially with hospital affiliated programs as the residents are required to take call.
However, I do agree that its risky to matriculate into dental school with the hopes of specializing. It can be done, but you'd just have to have your head down from the very beginning to put yourself in the academic position to have those doors open to you.
Debt is rising at all levels of education, this is not exclusive to dental. Your best bet is to matriculate at your state institution, if you have that option.

 

[6GodPharm]

Knowing what I know now I would do the same thing over again. I graduated last year, and yes retail is tough but to me it's rewarding. I have seen my technitions grow so much in a course of a year since I have been there and that is a rewarding part of the profession. We have such an impact on not only our patients but our staff who make crumbs to what we make.
If you're in Cali it's a no brainer. Be a pharmacist, have ambition and become a RX manager. You'll make over 70/hr. Pick up 2-3 shifts a month and try to get into a store where you work 13's. You'll get 4 hours of OT every day. You'll make over 200k a year this route. You won't have to worry about insurance and starting a practice and paying your employees. I would do what I do again in a heart beat.

 

[zelman]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_MD_and_DO_in_the_United_States
I thought they could become surgeons. Idk

Looks like you're right.

 

[penicillinman]

Do want you think will make you happy. If you are looking for a good life, well, I am a pharmacist and I bring in over a 100 k, get to take a vacation once a year, money is not an issue and life is pretty stable. Can you make more money as a dentist? Yes indeed. Will that make you happier? Than do it by all means. You need to find out what you like and what you want to do for the rest of your life. Some people live their lives "outside of work". If you are that kind of person, than you will pretty much be okay no matter what you choose. And in that case, choose dentistry. Why not make more money right? This is coming from someone that is opposite. I do not have the ability to "live my life outside of work". So even though it makes no financial sense, I am applying to medical school despite knowing how crazy it is to be a doctor in the current healthcare landscape. Basically, what I am trying to say is, is money more important or is the job satisfaction more important? If it is job satisfaction, than from your shadowing experience, did you like what you saw as a pharmacist job? And by the way, like one of the above posts said, it is never too late. Besides, you still starting out! Its not late at all.

 

[PAtoPharm]

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[gwarm01]

Pharmacy was very much a pragmatic decision for me. There was no vision from god or anything like that. Among others, I wanted a profession that would grant me professional license; the "doctor" title/ doctoral training even if I knew no one would ever call me doctor; 120K+ to start and I wanted my profession to be in steady demand - relatively speaking. Retail pharmacy does all those for me and I think it will for a while or at least until I decide to check out and retire in a tropical paradise overseas.

This is what everyone considering pharmacy should be thinking. None of this "passion for pharmacy" talk, no fluff, just realistic expectations. It's just a shame we don't have the wisdom of our 30's when we are making these important life decisions.

You walked in with the same reasons why I'm pursuing. I'm planning on applying this cycle and having cold feet for all the negative comments about pharmacy on this website, rarely do I see a pharmacist on here say positive things about pharmacy. Would you mind sharing some insight from the other end? Things you wish you knew before entering the field (positive or negative)? More positive light into your profession?

All I ask is that you go to http://pharmacymanpower.com/ and find the 10 year trend for your region. Things aren't going to get better so consider this information when making your decision.

 

[atnguy13]

This is what everyone considering pharmacy should be thinking. None of this "passion for pharmacy" talk, no fluff, just realistic expectations. It's just a shame we don't have the wisdom of our 30's when we are making these important life decisions.



All I ask is that you go to http://pharmacymanpower.com/ and find the 10 year trend for your region. Things aren't going to get better so consider this information when making your decision.

The demand is balanced in my state and very constant in the past few years. How come the east is so much worst than the west?

 

[owlegrad]

The demand is balanced in my state and very constant in the past few years. How come the east is so much worst than the west?

It is based on where people want to live.

 

[PikminOC]

Something else to consider -- if you can see yourself being a dentist, they not only make more money than pharmacists, but they also make more money for working only 4 days/week (30-32 hours/week). So another thing to ask yourself is, do you want to make more money by working less (as long you'd enjoy the work)?

Op, now that you have looked at the dental sdn, what do you think?

 

[PikminOC]

Ortho and oral surgery are the most competitive fields of dentistry

 

[PAtoPharm]

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