The ultimate COVID thread

[deleted171991]

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That’s interesting. Is there something unique about San Antonio that is causing this? We’ve been shut down longer than Texas and we don’t have similar lines. Just trying to figure it out.

Poverty?

There is a reason why Texas seems cheap to East Coast-ers. Most likely that a lot of people don't have a lot of money.

@We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes, that photo is heartbreaking.

 

[deleted941485]

even with the loss of life from covid-19 at some point the societal costs from a prolonged lockdown will cause serious long term effects that must be balanced. we cannot prevent all the deaths and may times listening to cuomo i get the impression he is living in some utopia where he thinks this will happen. a certain number will have to be accepted. we know unemployment and sudden unexpected life changes often leads to psychological trauma, and long term stress. after just 3 weeks there is data that calls for domestic violence is up significantly. the hidden facts are that divorce, child abuse, depression, alcoholism and eventually violent crime are going to become serious untold effects

As much as cuomo talks I don’t think he seriously believes that we must keep these restrictions on indefinitely in order to save lives. I still think he’s reasonable enough to see the problem with that.

That being said I think any discussion of lifting restrictions is premature.

 

[deleted643396]

Is the government just going to continuously bail out every industry? Airlines, the arts, hotels, sports, entertainment, restaurants, etc. The feds are going to pay us enough so that we can live and also buy unnecessary items to keep the economy going?

No. The government will only bail out those industries that have the best lobbyists. Remember when they told us that we can’t use a pen from a pharmaceutical rep because it will influence our prescribing habits? Well it’s the same thing for Congress, except substitute pen for campaign contribution and prescription for trillion dollar check.

The system is so broken, it’s not even funny anymore.

 

[DocMcCoy]

That’s interesting. Is there something unique about San Antonio that is causing this? We’ve been shut down longer than Texas and we don’t have similar lines. Just trying to figure it out.

I used to volunteer and give flu shots across the street from here way back in med school. It is a very large food bank that services a lot people at baseline. San Antonio historically has one of the highest poverty rates in the country. It’s sad. Lot of people suffering in my neck of the woods.

The article says it is not just Texas though. “San Antonio was not the only city to see record numbers of people seeking help and miles of cars waiting for food. Pittsburgh, Inglewood, Chicago, and Sunrise, Florida were among cities with packed roads leading to local facilities and massive amounts of food to be distributed.“

 

[deleted171991]

I used to volunteer and give flu shots across the street from here way back in med school. It is a very large food bank that services a lot people at baseline. San Antonio historically has one of the highest poverty rates in the country. It’s sad. Lot of people suffering in my neck of the woods.

The article says it is not just Texas though. “San Antonio was not the only city to see record numbers of people seeking help and miles of cars waiting for food. Pittsburgh, Inglewood, Chicago, and Sunrise, Florida were among cities with packed roads leading to local facilities and massive amounts of food to be distributed.“

The sad thing is that many of those people have been voting for Trump and his republicans. (You can't fix stupid.)

 

[AMEHigh]

I haven't heard of anybody unable to get prenatal checkups or any other reproduction healthcare because of state retrictions. Are you sure it isn't fetal termination care you are referring to?

Just a pet peeve, I wish all of these false labels would be thrown away, pro-life/pro-choice etc, and people just say I'm for abortion rights or I'm against abortion rights. It all seems disingenuous.
(for the record, somewhere in the middle)

I said reproductive health care because that’s what I meant. I wasn’t talking about just prenatal care, I was talking about other care such as access to certain birth control methods as well for example. Maybe you haven’t heard of it, but yes there are people in leadership in certain locations that are using covid as a way to continue to strip away reproductive health care from (mostly) women. I work directly in the field and do a lot of advocacy so I know the first hand accounts and measures we’re trying to take to stop this.

And my other posts have been pretty clear that I’m 100% for abortion rights but that’s not all I was talking about here, nor do we need to get in to that discussion. Hence, why I used reproductive health care because that is the correct term to what I was referring. Reproductive health care is not a false label.

Obviously not having access to necessary reproductive health care is going to affect poor people in greater ways like always, hence my questions above about the economics of it all. Is the government just going to bail us all out, especially poor people? I doubt it.

 

[DocMcCoy]

The sad thing is that many of those people have been voting for Trump and republicans.

This is true

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Poverty?

There is a reason why Texas seems cheap to East Coast-ers. Most likely that a lot of people don't have a lot of money.

@We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes, that photo is heartbreaking.

Yes, Very heartbreaking. Blew my mind.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I said reproductive health care because that’s what I meant. I wasn’t talking about just prenatal care, I was talking about other care such as access to certain birth control methods as well for example. Maybe you haven’t heard of it, but yes there are people in leadership in certain locations that are using covid as a way to continue to strip away reproductive health care from (mostly) women. I work directly in the field and do a lot of advocacy so I know the first hand accounts and measures we’re trying to take to stop this.

And my other posts have been pretty clear that I’m 100% for abortion rights but that’s not all I was talking about here, nor do we need to get in to that discussion. Hence, why I used reproductive health care because that is the correct term to what I was referring. Reproductive health care is not a false label.

Obviously not having access to necessary reproductive health care is going to affect poor people in greater ways like always, hence my questions above about the economics of it all. Is the government just going to bail us all out, especially poor people? I doubt it.

My bad. I thought you were referring to abortion rights because that's the battle I've seen mentioned a lot with covid. I shouldn't have brought it up anyway.

 

[anbuitachi]

And the second wave is coming in Asia, after returning to work. Food for thought for the geniuses who think that we can just simply restart the economy.

what second wave? not seeing much so far.. Skorea recorded 27 cases, and china 42. not much for a total population of 1.4b

 

[anbuitachi]

I guess I should’ve been more clear in my question. Not only am I wondering what will happen to the markets but what about the rest of the economy?

Is the government just going to continuously bail out every industry? Airlines, the arts, hotels, sports, entertainment, restaurants, etc. The feds are going to pay us enough so that we can live and also buy unnecessary items to keep the economy going?

Wipe out everyone’s student loans?!?

economy wont be good.. but question is will that matter the same way as the past? essential workers will keep working doing essential things. groceries, medical stuff, policing etc, make a salary. rest of the people will get 'UBI' on steroids. welcome to the new future (for the next few months )

 

[anbuitachi]

Oh yes I certainly agree.
I didn’t want to take this thread on too far of a tangent since it’s mostly about economics.

Black and Hispanic people are dying at alarming rates compared to white people...hello continuing to highlight health disparities due to decades of racism and inequality. That alone is another added stressor on our community that is already depressed in so many other ways.

There are states right now restricting patients from getting reproductive health care they need, which is causing even more negative affects on people.

There’s a lot we could talk about. It’s all a mess.

As the article I posted says people don’t think things are going to be back to "normal" until there’s a vaccine, so what exactly does that mean? Clearly that’s a rhetorical question since no one can answer that.

ETA: to be clear I’m certainly happy that people and local governments seem to be taking this seriously and everything isn’t opening back up fully this weekend like trump wanted. I was just pointing out there’s a lot to think about since this seems to be likely to be ongoing for awhile.

dont forget the decades of racism and inequality against asians. i guess asians are usually not included in much of anything.. but still be nice to include them in a while in the minority group =)

 

[anbuitachi]

A food line in San Antonio. Thank whoever you pray to that it appears the virus and economic shutdown will be far less than feared. This is after just a few weeks of shutdown. Anybody that thinks people concerned about the economy must value stocks and their 401k over human lives is a clown. Look at that picture and tell me where we would be heading if we had the full scale virus and economic devastation. To be exact we would be heading to Hell.

those lines are INSANE. were they unable to find food? all grocery stores sold out?? or are they giving out a lot of food at once? cant be for 1 meal is it.. the cost of gas waiting there is like a meal

 

[deleted171991]

what second wave? not seeing much so far.. Skorea recorded 27 cases, and china 42. not much for a total population of 1.4b

The one that will come in a few weeks:

Asia bracing for what some scientists fear is the second wave of coronavirus

Japan and Singapore were initially praised for leading the way on coronavirus containment, but a new surge in infections there suggests the dreaded second wave may be upon them.

www.abc.net.au

 

[pgg]

those lines are INSANE. were they unable to find food? all grocery stores sold out?? or are they giving out a lot of food at once? cant be for 1 meal is it.. the cost of gas waiting there is like a meal

I understand it to be a shortage of money to buy food because those people are out of work. Not a shortage of food production or distribution.

 

[deleted171991]

Laredo, Texas ER spent $500,000 on coronavirus tests that didn't work

A private emergency room owner bought 20,000 rapid COVID-19 tests, but a week later they were seized by the federal government. It's a bitter example of what can go wrong when local governments try to buy supplies on the open market from unknown manufacturers.

www.texastribune.org

 

[AMEHigh]

Laredo, Texas ER spent $500,000 on coronavirus tests that didn't work

A private emergency room owner bought 20,000 rapid COVID-19 tests, but a week later they were seized by the federal government. It's a bitter example of what can go wrong when local governments try to buy supplies on the open market from unknown manufacturers.

www.texastribune.org

Whatever happened to the nationwide google website that trump promised over a month ago (that would be up so quick, the quickest ever!) that would tell us where to go to get tested so everyone could get tested???? *eyeroll
What a mess 🙁

The key to "restarting" the economy will be widespread infection testing, tracking and antibody testing. The federal government needs to take a lead on that but I won’t hold my breath.

 

[deleted59964]

I understand it to be a shortage of money to buy food because those people are out of work. Not a shortage of food production or distribution.

Better get the people food, or things will deteriorate very quickly from here

 

[Southpaw]

Whatever happened to the nationwide google website that trump promised over a month ago (that would be up so quick, the quickest ever!) that would tell us where to go to get tested so everyone could get tested???? *eyeroll
What a mess 🙁

The key to "restarting" the economy will be widespread infection testing, tracking and antibody testing. The federal government needs to take a lead on that but I won’t hold my breath.

what....you can't find the marvelous website that our emperor created? It's saving lives every second of every day. It's the best website EVER!! But if you can't find it well that's your own problem. Nope, definitely not Trumps. Our supreme emperor has created a marvelous website! AWESOME! AMAZING!

 

[d9sccr]

The one that will come in a few weeks:

Asia bracing for what some scientists fear is the second wave of coronavirus

Japan and Singapore were initially praised for leading the way on coronavirus containment, but a new surge in infections there suggests the dreaded second wave may be upon them.

www.abc.net.au

China closes Russia border, puts new city into Wuhan-style lockdown to contain pandemic

The Chinese embassy in Moscow on Wednesday night announced the temporary closure of all land border points of entry for individuals travelling between the mainland and Russia.

www.newsweek.com

Who knows what’s going on in the interior away from borders. Unless warmer weather stymies this thing, everyone is going to see multiple waves until either herd immunity is reached or some treatment or cure is developed. Even then, we’ll be revisiting this whole thing in the fall.

At some point we need to start having conversations about when and how to reopen. It’s only a matter of time before civil unrest sets in.

 

[vector2]

 

[anbuitachi]

Fatal exceptionalism and lack of humility to learn from the Asian example

Fatal exceptionalism and lack of humility to learn from the Asian example

hopefully, if there is a next wave, it wont be as deadly cause we would more prepared

 

[deleted87051]

Mayo Clinic announces sweeping pay cuts, furloughs

The changes come in response to halting elective surgeries and procedures, which Mayo officials say are predicted to result in a $3 billion loss by the end of the year.

www.mprnews.org

10% is actually not bad. Unlike the private equity owned AMCs, Mayo is actually dipping into their reserves.

 

[deleted171991]

A preview of what's to come:

Trump Tells Employers Not To Worry About Recording COVID-19 Cases

Only health care facilities and select other employers will have to figure out if infections happened at work. Safety advocates are beside themselves.

www.huffpost.com

If we reopen the economy and people get sick because of that, nobody will be able to prove it. Capisci? 😉

They should use this administration as a study about evil in Sunday schools. Pure and unadulterated EVIL.

Btw:

Texas governor prepares executive order setting guidelines to reopen businesses

GOP Texas Gov. Greg Abbott plans to unveil an executive order with guidelines on how businesses can reopen.Abbott held a press conference Friday to

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[deleted171991]

Yes, Very heartbreaking. Blew my mind.

Dumped Milk, Smashed Eggs, Plowed Vegetables: Food Waste of the Pandemic (Published 2020)

With restaurants, hotels and schools closed, many of the nation’s largest farms are destroying millions of pounds of fresh goods that they can no longer sell.

www.nytimes.com

This is what the lack of a good administration does.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Better get the people food, or things will deteriorate very quickly from here

Abso-friggin-lutely.
Would set off a chain reaction that would spread like wildfire.

 

[deleted171991]

Abso-friggin-lutely.
Would set off a chain reaction that would spread like wildfire.

In that case, the US would rapidly turn into a dictatorship. I can think of at least one American who would love the idea.

Opinion | Trump Has Emergency Powers We Aren’t Allowed to Know About (Published 2020)

Given that they could make their first appearance in the coronavirus crisis, Congress should insist on having full access to them.

www.nytimes.com

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Unless warmer weather stymies this thing, everyone is going to see multiple waves until either herd immunity is reached or some treatment or cure is developed. Even then, we’ll be revisiting this whole thing in the fall.

At some point we need to start having conversations about when and how to reopen. It’s only a matter of time before civil unrest sets in.

If healthcare capacity is not reached then I'm getting closer to all in on the Sweden approach. A double win of herd immunity and normal life faster, and not collapsing the economy on the way there. The Sweden approach can not be measured in viral deaths (which we still don't know how that will turn out. they will have more deaths early but quite possibly less deaths during the later phases of this pandemic), and any comparison must measure the true economic struggling many Americans are having which will eventually become true economic suffering.

 

[deleted171991]

If healthcare capacity is not reached then I'm getting closer to all in on the Sweden approach. A double win of herd immunity and normal life faster, and not collapsing the economy on the way there. The Sweden approach can not be measured in viral deaths (which we still don't know how that will turn out. they will have more deaths early but quite possibly less deaths during the later phases of this pandemic), and any comparison must measure the true economic struggling many Americans are having which will eventually become true economic suffering.

Remember when the UK tried to play the Swedish game for just a week? Look at London and the NHS now.

Sweden's Relaxed Approach to the Coronavirus Could Be Backfiring

The Nordic country has a much higher fatality rate than its neighbors

time.com

The only way to reopen the economy is through extensive, reliable, repeated antibody (+/- RNA) testing. As in millions/day, repeated every 2 weeks. It's not clear even if the infection creates any immunity beyond just a few weeks.

Also, I don't know Sweden, but the average American is FATTER and SICKER than the average European.

 

[AMEHigh]

I haven’t read all 80 pages of these emails, but wow. Not surprising that trump’s main concern seems to be the stock market, but one would think that having a federal plan from the beginning might actually be beneficial to markets instead of just ignoring everything. Hmmm, what a novel concept. I also love how this article talks about Bush and Obama officials and their pandemic plans since trump seems to do his usual and blame prior administrations for his mess.
Ugh.

“Dr. Kadlec and other administration officials decided the next day to recommend to Mr. Trump that he publicly support the start of these mitigation efforts, such as school closings. But before they could discuss it with the president, who was returning from India, another official went public with a warning, sending the stock market down sharply and angering Mr. Trump. The meeting to brief him on the recommendation was canceled and it was three weeks before Mr. Trump would reluctantly cozme around to the need for mitigation.”

The ‘Red Dawn’ Emails: 8 Key Exchanges on the Faltering Response to the Coronavirus (Published 2020)

Experts inside and outside the government identified the threat early on and sought to raise alarms even as President Trump was moving slowly. Read some of what they had to say among themselves at critical moments.

www.nytimes.com

 

[deleted171991]

I haven’t read all 80 pages of these emails, but wow. Not surprising that trump’s main concern seems to be the stock market, but one would think that having a federal plan from the beginning might actually be beneficial to markets instead of just ignoring everything. Hmmm, what a novel concept. I also love how this article talks about Bush and Obama officials and their pandemic plans since trump seems to do his usual and blame prior administrations for his mess.
Ugh.

“Dr. Kadlec and other administration officials decided the next day to recommend to Mr. Trump that he publicly support the start of these mitigation efforts, such as school closings. But before they could discuss it with the president, who was returning from India, another official went public with a warning, sending the stock market down sharply and angering Mr. Trump. The meeting to brief him on the recommendation was canceled and it was three weeks before Mr. Trump would reluctantly cozme around to the need for mitigation.”

The ‘Red Dawn’ Emails: 8 Key Exchanges on the Faltering Response to the Coronavirus (Published 2020)

Experts inside and outside the government identified the threat early on and sought to raise alarms even as President Trump was moving slowly. Read some of what they had to say among themselves at critical moments.

www.nytimes.com

It's all about PR in an electoral year.

To play the devil's advocate, I can very well see a scenario where he lets the country go to hell, just so that he doesn't lose the elections and can impose emergency powers and a Putin-style dictatorship. This republican party would support it in a heartbeat, that's why I am so concerned.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

Remember when the UK tried to play the Swedish game for just a week? Look at London and the NHS now.

Sweden's Relaxed Approach to the Coronavirus Could Be Backfiring

The Nordic country has a much higher fatality rate than its neighbors

time.com

The only way to reopen the economy is through extensive, reliable, repeated antibody (+/- RNA) testing. As in millions/day, repeated every 2 weeks. It's not clear even if the infection creates any immunity beyond just a few weeks.

They have to have a higher initial death rate. That's a given. I would say I think they are a tad more reckless than I'd like, but other than that if we keep pushing into possible chaos and near revolution I think the Swedes will be sipping coffee in those open for business outdoor cafes saying, What were the Americans thinking? So basically, way too early to conclude anything. I do like that there is a competing option so that a lone option can't simply claim victory when it's over.

As for the possibility of immunity being only for a few weeks (assuming no vaccine or good treatments)... man, forget it, we're all toast if that's the case.

 

[AMEHigh]

It's all about PR in an electoral year.

To play the devil's advocate, I can very well see a scenario where he lets the country go to hell, just so that he doesn't lose the elections and can impose emergency powers and a Putin-style dictatorship. This republican party would support it in a heartbeat, that's why I am so concerned.

Ugh I know.

Between the mess of the Wisconsin primary in which they were allowed to still hold their primary which was an advantage for the GOP and now no funding for the USPS so it could be in jeopardy of shutting down, I think they’re working very hard to make it difficult to vote. The GOP is trash for being complicit and allowing this to happen.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

It's all about PR in an electoral year.

To play the devil's advocate, I can very well see a scenario where he lets the country go to hell, just so that he doesn't lose the elections and can impose emergency powers and a Putin-style dictatorship. This republican party would support it in a heartbeat, that's why I am so concerned.

Sounds a little too (mirror image of) Alex Jones for me. I find a higher likelihood of this extreme shutdown leading to possibly South Central LA, Katrina, and Ferguson coast to coast. And my faith in government to anticipate this and control it if necessary is zero.

 

[pgg]

In that case, the US would rapidly turn into a dictatorship. I can think of at least one American who would love the idea.

Opinion | Trump Has Emergency Powers We Aren’t Allowed to Know About (Published 2020)

Given that they could make their first appearance in the coronavirus crisis, Congress should insist on having full access to them.

www.nytimes.com

I'm just not worried about this risk of dictatorship or totalitarian regime that we've been warned about since Trump's election.

You know who I see most outraged about these pandemic-related movement restrictions? It's not Democrats, who are for the most part on board with the need for social distancing despite its effect on the economy. It's Republicans, and especially it's Trump's base. These people are so wary of the government seizing special powers (and not letting them go) that they're ignoring them, circumventing them, talking about how stupid they are. If they want to sound reasonable, they're wringing their hands about the total global economic collapse this will cause being a pretext for the next Hitler seizing power. If they don't care about sounding reasonable, they put forth crazy conspiracy theories about COVID-19 being a complete hoax.

Again, it's not generally the rank & file Democrats making these arguments. It's the right. It's the people who you'd expect to be supporting their a grab for power coming from "their side" ...

Sure, Democrats have been warning that Orange Hitler was poised to make himself a king since day 1 of his administration. Or maybe day negative 70 or thereabouts, since it started shortly after the election. I've never really been able to sort through their argument that the man is simultaneously a grossly incompetent demented clown whose administration is in constant disarray, with their parallel argument that he's a villainous mastermind who's going to seize permanent power.


The private shooting range I belong to has about 60 members. The place closed down after the state instituted mandatory movement restrictions. You would not believe the mix of concern, anxiety, fear, and outrage over this egregious overreach. These are, for the most part, solid Trump supporters. Or at the very least, if they don't really like Trump, they dislike Democrats much more. Many of these people haaaaate anything the government tells them to do.

100-something counties in the state responded to some real, actual, genuine attempts to infringe their civil rights just months ago by publicly declaring themselves unwilling to accept or enforce the unconstitutional laws the state's (Democrat) leadership tried to foist off on them.

So again - I just don't see who's going to support this Trumpian dictatorship.


And again it bears mentioning ... the food isn't running out. The food isn't going to run out. In the big picture, this virus is almost exclusively affecting old people who aren't part of the workforce. There's no way, no how, that the machinery of civilization, especially food production and distribution, is going to collapse to the point that the population starves.

That food bank had long lines because the people were out of work and had no money, not because there was a food shortage.

 

[deleted59964]

In that case, the US would rapidly turn into a dictatorship. I can think of at least one American who would love the idea.

Opinion | Trump Has Emergency Powers We Aren’t Allowed to Know About (Published 2020)

Given that they could make their first appearance in the coronavirus crisis, Congress should insist on having full access to them.

www.nytimes.com

yeah - this is a big problem, you also have a lot of people with a lot of guns - who own them to resist a tyrannical government I believe.
at least in the USA you have the wealth (although maldistributed) to guarantee food supply if you have the will.

Developing countries will encounter the same problem without the resources.

 

[vector2]

.
Sure, Democrats have been warning that Orange Hitler was poised to make himself a king since day 1 of his administration. Or maybe day negative 70 or thereabouts, since it started shortly after the election. I've never really been able to sort through their argument that the man is simultaneously a grossly incompetent demented clown whose administration is in constant disarray, with their parallel argument that he's a villainous mastermind who's going to seize permanent power.
.

“ Mr. Magoo is a wealthy, short-statured retiree who gets into a series of comical situations as a result of his extreme near-sightedness, compounded by his stubborn refusal to admit the problem. However, through uncanny streaks of luck, the situation always seems to work itself out for him, leaving him no worse than before”


I wouldn’t conflate Trump being pretty stupid to mean that everyone else working for him in the west wing and the GOP congressional leadership who appreciate a useful idiot are as well. Your “day negative 70” quip would also be a lot funnier if this tweet didn’t exist

 

[deleted171991]

I'm just not worried about this risk of dictatorship or totalitarian regime that we've been warned about since Trump's election.

You know who I see most outraged about these pandemic-related movement restrictions? It's not Democrats, who are for the most part on board with the need for social distancing despite its effect on the economy. It's Republicans, and especially it's Trump's base. These people are so wary of the government seizing special powers (and not letting them go) that they're ignoring them, circumventing them, talking about how stupid they are. If they want to sound reasonable, they're wringing their hands about the total global economic collapse this will cause being a pretext for the next Hitler seizing power. If they don't care about sounding reasonable, they put forth crazy conspiracy theories about COVID-19 being a complete hoax.

Again, it's not generally the rank & file Democrats making these arguments. It's the right. It's the people who you'd expect to be supporting their a grab for power coming from "their side" ...

Sure, Democrats have been warning that Orange Hitler was poised to make himself a king since day 1 of his administration. Or maybe day negative 70 or thereabouts, since it started shortly after the election. I've never really been able to sort through their argument that the man is simultaneously a grossly incompetent demented clown whose administration is in constant disarray, with their parallel argument that he's a villainous mastermind who's going to seize permanent power.


The private shooting range I belong to has about 60 members. The place closed down after the state instituted mandatory movement restrictions. You would not believe the mix of concern, anxiety, fear, and outrage over this egregious overreach. These are, for the most part, solid Trump supporters. Or at the very least, if they don't really like Trump, they dislike Democrats much more. Many of these people haaaaate anything the government tells them to do.

100-something counties in the state responded to some real, actual, genuine attempts to infringe their civil rights just months ago by publicly declaring themselves unwilling to accept or enforce the unconstitutional laws the state's (Democrat) leadership tried to foist off on them.

So again - I just don't see who's going to support this Trumpian dictatorship.


And again it bears mentioning ... the food isn't running out. The food isn't going to run out. In the big picture, this virus is almost exclusively affecting old people who aren't part of the workforce. There's no way, no how, that the machinery of civilization, especially food production and distribution, is going to collapse to the point that the population starves.

That food bank had long lines because the people were out of work and had no money, not because there was a food shortage.

No offense, but this is wishful thinking. Remember when people used to think that democratic institutions will be able to limit Trump's overreach, because democracy is "strong" in America? We all know what happened. This guy has zero scruples, the basic quality for an autocrat, and has packed the government and republican party with similar psychopaths. Look at his press secretary etc.

This ain't 2016 anymore. I am telling you: this reminds me more and more of my native country. US democracy took a bigger hit with Trump than with 9/11. And what's more concerning is the small number of people who are noticing it.

 

[deleted171991]

I am just watching the former FDA commissioner, and he's been saying that the European numbers for exposure, based on antibody testing, are in the single digits, less than 5%. Even for people exposed to many people (police, healthcare), it is just double that, so serological testing wouldn't do much for now. The idea that there are 30-40% already exposed out there is a legend. Plus mass testing is a legend, anyway, because we won't have the capacity.

Food for thought regarding the reopening the economy.

I think the way to go may be based on age (like filling up an airplane based on row numbers). That would be also easy to check. E.g. everybody healthy and younger than age X (let's say 30) is allowed to work. If that still doesn't overwhelm 2-3 weeks later, we go to age X +3/5/10 (another small percentage of the population). And we keep going until we start getting too many cases again, at which point we take a step back.

This will be a marathon, not a sprint, till we get to herd immunity, a therapy or a vaccine.. This won't get fixed in just a few months. It is also a way to allow young people, who have usually among the least savings, to get back to work. They also have the lowest mortality and sickness rates. Many of them also have older relatives they could help.

 

[vector2]

Trump has also successfully shifted any blame for the ills of stay at home orders to the governors. Even though the CDC rec is to stay at home, Trump never really decreed that through an executive order (granted, which may have had questionable legality) or even just a forceful recommendation on national tv. Hence why there were still 8 idiot GOP governors last week who hadn’t implemented measures because they were following Trump’s lead.

Take a look at this oped in Michigan newspapers:

“ When Whitmer extended her shelter-in-place order Thursday — it’s now effective through April 30 — she not only ignored common sense changes and the concerns of financially hurting business owners, she doubled down on her initial decree.”

Jacques: Whitmer disses Michigan biz community

Three weeks into the first stay-home order, Gov. Whitmer has had time to hear feedback and make adjustments, but she's refused to compromise

www.detroitnews.com

MAGA *****s would find some excuses for their cognitive dissonance if the shutdown really had the feeling of actually coming from Trump. But governors (esp the democratic kind) make easy foils for their anti-government angst.

 

[DocMcCoy]

“I think the way to go may be based on age (like filling up an airplane based on row numbers). That would be also easy to check. E.g. everybody healthy and younger than age X (let's say 30) is allowed to work. If that still doesn't overwhelm 2-3 weeks later, we go to age X +3/5/10 (another small percentage of the population). And we keep going until we start getting too many cases again, at which point we take a step back.
This will be a marathon, not a sprint.”-FFP


Age adaptive social distancing and targeted adaptive isolation strategies are probably the way to go. There are some PIR models suggesting this in some articles but they are in preprint and not worth quoting. In the same vein as what you are suggesting.

A stepwise approach to opening over the next few weeks is all but guaranteed at this point regardless of what testing strategies are in place.

On the plus side, there does seem to be bipartisan agreement that we can’t just open up the flood gates and see what happens.

My governor is fixing to make an announcement this week so it might be coming sooner than later.

 

[pjl]

I am just watching the former FDA commissioner, and he's been saying that the European numbers for exposure, based on antibody testing, are in the single digits, less than 5%. Even for people exposed to many people (police, healthcare), it is just double that, so serological testing wouldn't do much for now. The idea that there are 30-40% already exposed out there is a legend. Plus mass testing is a legend, anyway, because we won't have the capacity.

Food for thought regarding the reopening the economy.

I think the way to go may be based on age (like filling up an airplane based on row numbers). That would be also easy to check. E.g. everybody healthy and younger than age X (let's say 30) is allowed to work. If that still doesn't overwhelm 2-3 weeks later, we go to age X +3/5/10 (another small percentage of the population). And we keep going until we start getting too many cases again, at which point we take a step back.

This will be a marathon, not a sprint, till we get to herd immunity, a therapy or a vaccine.. This won't get fixed in just a few months. It is also a way to allow young people, who have usually among the least savings, to get back to work. They also have the lowest mortality and sickness rates. Many of them also have older relatives they could help.

Make your starting age group everyone under 50 or 60 and I’m sold.

 

[deleted171991]

Make your starting age group everyone under 50 or 60 and I’m sold.

If we do that, we're back to square one. We need to keep the curve flat enough so that hospitals don't get overwhelmed, and people don't die left and right, despite social isolation and masks at work. Most of the country still hasn't seen the full power of the first wave, and are still wishful thinking.

It will have to be something like 10% of the population at a time. Or maybe less. Also, lower populational density areas first.

 

[vector2]

Make your starting age group everyone under 50 or 60 and I’m sold.

Under 60 is 80+% of the US population so your real position is essentially that we should fully open back up.

 

[vector2]

White House says no 'surprise' bills for COVID-19 patients

WASHINGTON (AP) — Hospitals taking money from the $2 trillion stimulus bill will have to agree not to send “surprise” medical bills to patients treated for COVID-19, the White House said Thursday.

apnews.com

'Surprise' billing fix could hitch ride on next coronavirus relief bill

The effort still faces political headwinds at a time when Congress is focused on helping hospitals and physicians on the front lines of the pandemic.

www.politico.com

 

[Ronin786]

White House says no 'surprise' bills for COVID-19 patients

WASHINGTON (AP) — Hospitals taking money from the $2 trillion stimulus bill will have to agree not to send “surprise” medical bills to patients treated for COVID-19, the White House said Thursday.

apnews.com

'Surprise' billing fix could hitch ride on next coronavirus relief bill

The effort still faces political headwinds at a time when Congress is focused on helping hospitals and physicians on the front lines of the pandemic.

www.politico.com

Of course they had to find a way to prop up insurance companies with their stimulus. Despite the record profits these companies are going to take these next few years. Big industry is a bi-partisan disease.

 

[d9sccr]

Of course they had to find a way to prop up insurance companies with their stimulus. Despite the record profits these companies are going to take these next few years. Big industry is a bi-partisan disease.

Here in Indiana, we were already screwed over by surprise billing legislation just prior to the onset of this craziness. As an aside, stuff like this is why I'm vehemently opposed to donating to the ASA or ASAPAC. There was zero pushback outside the state level and not a word printed in any communication I've received from them.

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

"Or at the very least, if they don't really like Trump, they dislike Democrats much more."

You would think such a simple concept wouldn't be so difficult for so many to understand.

 

[AMEHigh]

It seems this might be a good way to keep the economy going, provide people with necessities and to keep people home as I doubt we can re-open everything next month in a safe manner.

Spain to start universal basic income soon

Spain to launch universal basic income ‘soon’

Spanish Economy Minister Nadia Calvino said the coronavirus-stricken nation intends to implement a universal basic income program as soon as possible to blunt the pandemic’s economic impact.Calvino…

thehill.com

Pope advocates for universal basic income

Spain to launch universal basic income ‘soon’

Spanish Economy Minister Nadia Calvino said the coronavirus-stricken nation intends to implement a universal basic income program as soon as possible to blunt the pandemic’s economic impact.Calvino…

thehill.com

 

[We'llBeDoneIn15Minutes]

I am just watching the former FDA commissioner, and he's been saying that the European numbers for exposure, based on antibody testing, are in the single digits, less than 5%. Even for people exposed to many people (police, healthcare), it is just double that, so serological testing wouldn't do much for now. The idea that there are 30-40% already exposed out there is a legend. Plus mass testing is a legend, anyway, because we won't have the capacity.

Food for thought regarding the reopening the economy.

I think the way to go may be based on age (like filling up an airplane based on row numbers). That would be also easy to check. E.g. everybody healthy and younger than age X (let's say 30) is allowed to work. If that still doesn't overwhelm 2-3 weeks later, we go to age X +3/5/10 (another small percentage of the population). And we keep going until we start getting too many cases again, at which point we take a step back.

This will be a marathon, not a sprint, till we get to herd immunity, a therapy or a vaccine.. This won't get fixed in just a few months. It is also a way to allow young people, who have usually among the least savings, to get back to work. They also have the lowest mortality and sickness rates. Many of them also have older relatives they could help.

This isn't terribly far off from the Sweden approach which is sick and elderly stay home, work from home if you can, hands washing/distancing, no large gatherings, etc. I think Sweden has been maybe a bit too lax and sloppy with the rules and enforcement, but I think their methods can be tinkered with as needed without destroying the entire approach of keeping life and the economy going as best as you can.