UMass vs. Brown

[Toadsworth]

I'm in at UMass and on the waitlist at Brown. Is it worth working hard to get in off the waitlist? Between the two, which would you choose?

Factors:
- big tuition disparity before financial aid (44k for Brown vs. 15k for UMass)
- slight prestige disparity in medicine (in favor of Brown)
- equidistant from home
- Providence appears much better than Worcester
- both are standard curriculum

Any other thoughts?

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[Jihad]

Ah man. If I was you and got in off waitlist, I think I would have had to like Brown a LOT more to make up for that cost difference. But shoot, if you definitely like the school and the location better I think you should go with it. No reason to have any "what if" feelings about it down the road. My buddy is a 2nd year at Brown and I know how competitive it is to get in. I think you deserve to make the more xpensive choice if you want to. Good luck.

 

[docelh]

UMass. Brown is not top-tier enough to justify the higher tuition. And even if it were, I would seriously consider UMass.

 

[metallica81788]

UMass. Brown is not top-tier enough to justify the higher tuition. And even if it were, I would seriously consider UMass.

And once again, Brown has a lot of students from its BA/MD program that could be clique-y.

I didn't know UMass was that cheap for that good of a school. Wow.

 

[tantacles]

I say go to Brown. That way, you can clear up a potential spot for me at UMass. :-D

In all seriousness, though, I would actually tell you to go to UMass in this case. UMass is a research powerhouse, and its clout is only growing. The disparity in tuition is substantial, and while Worcester may not be the greatest city, it's not tremendously dangerous and you'll probably end up spending most of your time in the medical area anyway.

The real clincher, however, would be if you had your heart set on a specific field. Students at UMass have an easy time (well, ok, not easy, but you know what I mean) getting fantastic residency placements in primary care fields, so Brown's prestige assuming you wanted one of those fields would likely not matter.

However, if you wanted something competitive outside of the primary care field or were just unsure, Brown might be a better choice in that arena. Either way, as a previous poster mentioned, the difference in prestige isn't tremendous, so going to UMass would not put you in a bad place in terms of residency even if you did want to specialize.

Good luck making your choice!

 

[Geekchick921]

I'm in at UMass and on the waitlist at Brown. Is it worth working hard to get in off the waitlist? Between the two, which would you choose?

Factors:
- big tuition disparity before financial aid (44k for Brown vs. 15k for UMass)

Aaaaaand, I stopped reading.

176K for tuition vs. 60K for tuition. UMass all the way.

 

[Toadsworth]

I agree with most everything said so should I just all together forget trying to get off the Brown waitlist?

I say go to Brown. That way, you can clear up a potential spot for me at UMass. :-D

In all seriousness, though, I would actually tell you to go to UMass in this case. UMass is a research powerhouse, and its clout is only growing. The disparity in tuition is substantial, and while Worcester may not be the greatest city, it's not tremendously dangerous and you'll probably end up spending most of your time in the medical area anyway.

The real clincher, however, would be if you had your heart set on a specific field. Students at UMass have an easy time (well, ok, not easy, but you know what I mean) getting fantastic residency placements in primary care fields, so Brown's prestige assuming you wanted one of those fields would likely not matter.

However, if you wanted something competitive outside of the primary care field or were just unsure, Brown might be a better choice in that arena. Either way, as a previous poster mentioned, the difference in prestige isn't tremendous, so going to UMass would not put you in a bad place in terms of residency even if you did want to specialize.

Good luck making your choice!

I forgot to mention this difference in my original post. I am not too interested in primary care and as you said, although UMass is becoming a great research university, it's primary focus is creating excellent primary care physicians. However, am I right in assuming that attending UMass over Brown wouldn't make too much of a difference in specializing?

Good luck at UMass

 

[alibai3ah]

UMass. Brown is not top-tier enough to justify the higher tuition. And even if it were, I would seriously consider UMass.

An ivy league is an ivy league. No one cares about the US News Rankings.....

I would go with Brown in a heartbeat.

 

[alibai3ah]

Aaaaaand, I stopped reading.

176K for tuition vs. 60K for tuition. UMass all the way.

Nevermind, I just read this post. Holy crap, go with UMass

 

[Steeler7588]

An ivy league is an ivy league. No one cares about the US News Rankings...

I'd disagree. Not that I think US News rankings are the **** or anything, but there are several medical schools that are wayyy more prestigious than Brown or Dartmouth, when that isn't true for their respective undergrads.

I'd echo the BA/MD students being a big factor. I remember when I was researching Brown, I read somewhere that out of a 90 something class, around 60 came in through the combined program. I personally think it's healthier for both the students and the institution to admit people the normal way, although that's for another discussion. But could you imagine entering a class where two-thirds of the people are already close with each other? Maybe you'd be comfortable in that environment, but I think a fresh start would make for a better experience.

 

[M. furfur]

For what it's worth, I think Brown is an objectively much better school that on average matches students into better residencies.

That being said, if you do very well at UMass the same doors will be open to you and there seems to be a substantial cost difference. Whether that cost difference is worth it is probably a very personal choice.

 

[Petemoss]

I'm in the same exact position as Toadsworth and I also don't foresee myself going into primary care, but just comparing the matchlists, there doesn't seem to be too much of a difference and about half the class at UMass do end up specializing and end up in respectable residencies.

Edit: I've also been comparing Tufts and BU to UMass. I guess it's a no brainer.

 

[metallica81788]

An ivy league is an ivy league. No one cares about the US News Rankings.....

I would go with Brown in a heartbeat.

So you're saying you would take Brown over say UMich or UCSF because it's an Ivy? There's a huge difference there.

 

[drizzt3117]

wow... brown's match list is pretty interesting.

http://med.brown.edu/about/match

From a quick glance, it looks like they're putting half their class into primary care? That seems really unusual for an Ivy. I suppose maybe a lot of the people are trying to go into cards, GI, or one of the IM related specialties but that still seems rather high for a private school. Looks like a decent amount of unmatched people too, I imagine the final list is post-scramble and there's still a bunch of prelim only people.

 

[slowbutsteady]

An ivy league is an ivy league. No one cares about the US News Rankings.....

I would go with Brown in a heartbeat.

Only if you are trying to impress your aunt! Everyone in medicine knows that Brown is not a top 10 med school.

UMass is a much better choice for about a zillion reasons.

 

[jbz24]

wow... brown's match list is pretty interesting.

http://med.brown.edu/about/match

From a quick glance, it looks like they're putting half their class into primary care? That seems really unusual for an Ivy. I suppose maybe a lot of the people are trying to go into cards, GI, or one of the IM related specialties but that still seems rather high for a private school. Looks like a decent amount of unmatched people too, I imagine the final list is post-scramble and there's still a bunch of prelim only people.

Doesn't seem that much different than other places. Seems like what, 4 unmatched this year? Cornell I believe had more and I think someone said Penn had 9 unmatched. Also seems like a standard breakdown of specialties. Not saying that their matches are largely high quality matches or not, but I don't see anything unusual or out of the ordinary.

 

[drizzt3117]

Doesn't seem that much different than other places. Seems like what, 4 unmatched this year? Cornell I believe had more and I think someone said Penn had 9 unmatched. Also seems like a standard breakdown of specialties. Not saying that their matches are largely high quality matches or not, but I don't see anything unusual or out of the ordinary.

I think the match list is after scramble, though, generally, although I could be wrong, just seems like a lot of primary care to me, I mean obviously it's choice but I just thought it was a relatively high amount of pc, I believe my state school had around 30% and its top ten in pc <shrugs>

 

[jbz24]

I think the match list is after scramble, though, generally, although I could be wrong, just seems like a lot of primary care to me, I mean obviously it's choice but I just thought it was a relatively high amount of pc, I believe my state school had around 30% and its top ten in pc <shrugs>

Yeah, but every list posted here is after the scramble. Of course I'm just assuming, but when I see the surg-prelim or med-prelim with no attached specialty, that means that person went unmatched. Is that right? I think I counted something like 4 or 5 on Cornell's, which is a much better school, so I don't think it's any different than Brown's.

I guess Brown's could be a little more PC-heavy. I didn't really count it up. They just seem to have a small class in general so maybe that's why. I don't think internal medicine can be counted as primary care because most go onto specialties. Definitely the medicine-primary care or pediatric-primary care matches though, but I don't think there's that many on that list.

I think in general though, at most schools, medicine + pediatrics usually is greater than half the class.

 

[Petemoss]

I agree with most everything said so should I just all together forget trying to get off the Brown waitlist?



I forgot to mention this difference in my original post. I am not too interested in primary care and as you said, although UMass is becoming a great research university, it's primary focus is creating excellent primary care physicians. However, am I right in assuming that attending UMass over Brown wouldn't make too much of a difference in specializing?

Good luck at UMass

I was wondering about this too. Any thoughts?

 

[drizzt3117]

I think there might be a small advantage going to brown but it's probably not worth paying 3x the money unless cost isn't an issue.

 

[Infinitydrop]

I am in a very similar situation. I am in at umass an BU, and on the waitlist for brown, dartmouth, usc, and case western. I have no idea what to do. i LOVE boston, been living here for the year. Worcester on the other hand is 15 mins from home (and my parents are the naggy controlling kind).

BU- expensive but I love the program and BOston.
UMASS- 15k tuition plus cheap living costs
Brown- loved providence, but don't like the plme program
Dartmouth- Not sure I want to spend another 4 years there
Case-best school, but I did not like cleveland.

Should I push for any waitlists? and would you go to BU over UMASS?

 

[Toadsworth]

I am in a very similar situation. I am in at umass an BU, and on the waitlist for brown, dartmouth, usc, and case western. I have no idea what to do. i LOVE boston, been living here for the year. Worcester on the other hand is 15 mins from home (and my parents are the naggy controlling kind).

BU- expensive but I love the program and BOston.
UMASS- 15k tuition plus cheap living costs
Brown- loved providence, but don't like the plme program
Dartmouth- Not sure I want to spend another 4 years there
Case-best school, but I did not like cleveland.

Should I push for any waitlists? and would you go to BU over UMASS?

I would without a doubt pick UMass over BU. Are the program differences and being in Boston as opposed to 30 minutes from Boston worth the extremely large increase in tuition? In my opinion, no. As great as Case is, I wouldn't want to spend 4 yrs in Cleveland when I have the opportunity to stay in New England. I am with you there on Dartmouth/Brown... I'd be lying to you if I said I wasn't partially attracted to the school based on the overall name of the university but I think it'd be best for my future if I saved the money and stuck with UMass.

 

[Infinitydrop]

The cost is probably 3rd on my list of importance
1. the location/happiness
2. the program: i will be specializing for sure and i love global health (BU and the ivys are really good on this point)
3.the cost.

my parents will cover about 80k-90k tuition over 4 years. and then i looked up starting salaries and it was in the 200k-300k range, a lot higher than i expected so if i live well, i don't forsee any problem paying up my debts ( considering that i am living just fine one 1/10 of that right now). I think SDN is way too money directed, and i think in reality the people who tell you to follow the money often don't do it themselves. its one of those advise that is much easier to give than to act on yourself. Which med school you pick goes whith you for the rest of your life, paying debts is only a matter of couple years. That's why i don't want it to sway my decision.

 

[Toadsworth]

The cost is probably 3rd on my list of importance
1. the location/happiness
2. the program: i will be specializing for sure and i love global health (BU and the ivys are really good on this point)
3.the cost.

my parents will cover about 80k-90k tuition over 4 years. and then i looked up starting salaries and it was in the 200k-300k range, a lot higher than i expected so if i live well, i don't forsee any problem paying up my debts ( considering that i am living just fine one 1/10 of that right now). I think SDN is way too money directed, and i think in reality the people who tell you to follow the money often don't do it themselves. its one of those advise that is much easier to give than to act on yourself. Which med school you pick goes whith you for the rest of your life, paying debts is only a matter of couple years. That's why i don't want it to sway my decision.

I guess the difference between you and me is my parents are covering none of my tuition. Besides that, I really don't think your ability to specialize will be any different between BU and UMass. I fully intend on specializing as well. Global health, however, I think is a reasonable reason to pick one school over another.

At the end of the day I won't have a free 80k-90k coming my way to help cover tuition costs. So a difference between 180k and 60k in tuition + interest accruing for several years is much more for me.

 

[Infinitydrop]

your the OP right? Brown is not really any cheaper than BU. so why would you be torn over brown vs umass choice and not at all in the BU vs umass choice? Is there that big of a difference between BU and Brown?

 

[Toadsworth]

your the OP right? Brown is not really any cheaper than BU. so why would you be torn over brown vs umass choice and not at all in the BU vs umass choice? Is there that big of a difference between BU and Brown?

If you look back, I was never really torn. I was just questioning whether it'd be worth it for whatever small prestige/specialization advantages that Brown may offer. I've been certainly leaning towards UMass this whole time. I also hold Brown in higher regard as a med school/university than BU

 

[Infinitydrop]

your right, i misread that. i was assuming things because of the nature of this type of threads, theres been a lot lately, and I am starting to get confused.apologies.

 

[Petemoss]

I think SDN is way too money directed, and i think in reality the people who tell you to follow the money often don't do it themselves. its one of those advise that is much easier to give than to act on yourself. Which med school you pick goes whith you for the rest of your life, paying debts is only a matter of couple years. That's why i don't want it to sway my decision.

Not so sure about that...many graduates continue to pay off debt for sometimes even decades, after accruing interest etc.

 

[DuckFook]

I'd like some advice on my situation. NYU vs Brown. I'm in at both and want to know what everyone here thinks...

NYU - new curriculum.
Brown - well, you guys have said it all.

 

[jbz24]

I'd like some advice on my situation. NYU vs Brown. I'm in at both and want to know what everyone here thinks...

NYU - new curriculum.
Brown - well, you guys have said it all.

Assuming money is the same and no personal reason for one over the other, 100% NYU. Better location, more prestigious school, etc.

 

[Infinitydrop]

Not so sure about that...many graduates continue to pay off debt for sometimes even decades, after accruing interest etc.

Yes, there are people who arn't careful about spending and debt but there are plenty of people who can pay back their debt in a couple of years. Also paying debts in decades is not always a bad thing either,i was just talking to someone who is not paying back his debts on purpose because of tax and other interesting deductions he get for it, and he gets the government to pay for a lot of it by doing research on the side, so he is just going to pay a little bit back at a time for the next 20 years and since he has a very stable job, he is not worried about being in debt.

My point is, as a physian, you will be able to eventually pay back your debts.

Also it's not like one school is completely free.
UMASS= 45k a year
BU, Brown=70k a year

 

[bfaria]

I'm in a similar situation. I have acceptances at Northwestern, Brown, and Mt. Sinai.

Brown gave me a $100K merit scholarship, which would bring my total debt to about $105K after graduation (assuming I get need-based aid).

Northwestern and Sinai both gave me $50K in need-based grants, which would bring my debt to $218K and $186K respectively.

There's a gap in rank, but there's also a gap in the dollah billz. Right now I'm leaning toward Brown.

 

[Infinitydrop]

why would you asume only brown will give you need based aid?
Congrats on your acceptances. Would you really pass up on NW or sinai because of 50k difference? After this process, I really do believe you have to be in a different league as the other applicants to land an acceptance at NW and Sinai. congrats again

 

[bfaria]

Sinai and Northwestern only gave me need-based aid. I wasn't awarded a merit scholarship like Brown did.

And the difference is actually 80K. That's like 1.25 years of med school cheaper. Sometimes I think I'm considering money too heavily.

I AM SO CONFUSED

 

[Infinitydrop]

it really depends on your family situation. If you parents will support you a little then take NW or Sinai, because you have worked really really hard to earn it, otherwise what was all that studying and time for? people (except for my parents) always ADVISE me to go to the cheapest school including 90% ofsdn, but when i look around me and god i know wayyy too many premeds or med students, NOT ONE went to the cheaper school. NOT ONE. They all went to the BEST school they got into. Just to list a few I actually know. WashU over Chicago merit scholarship, Tufts over Umass, Einstein over BU md/phd(thi was when Einstein was ranked 21), Duke over u of maryland. only time i could think of when people i know didn't go to the best school was when they got offered a lot of money at another top 10 instuition.

 

[bfaria]

Thanks for putting that into perspective for me. I need to stop obsessing over rank. It's not like Brown isn't a good school.

I'm positive that I'll be able to accomplish the goals I've set for myself at Brown--and for a fraction of the cost. I just need to keep telling myself this.

PS I really liked the student atmosphere at Brown. Hopefully that will remain true during Second Look.

 

[hey7802]

bfaria, just curious, did you receive your merit-based scholarship along with your acceptance letter from brown, or did you receive it when you received your financial aid package?

 

[Petemoss]

I don't quite remember from interview day, but is this year's entering class at UMass guinea pigs for the new curriculum or have they been implementing it in stages over the last couple years?

 

[bfaria]

bfaria, just curious, did you receive your merit-based scholarship along with your acceptance letter from brown, or did you receive it when you received your financial aid package?

I received my merit award via snail mail about 3 weeks ago. Financial aid packages aren't going out until early May (called Fin Aid Office today).

 

[neurogirlmd14]

Just to throw in my two cents here...I received the same merit scholarship to Brown as you did in addition to financial aid, and got into NW as well, but didn't get a merit scholarship, and not as good of an aid package. I was completely in love with NW (still am) but unfortunately there is no way that difference would be enough to send me to NW over Brown. Brown is an amazing school and Providence will be fun!

For the poster who asked about NYU vs. Brown. I got in off the waitlist at NYU and my financial aid came with only loans. As much as NYU might be more highly ranked or prestigious (and even after living in NYC for 6 years I still think it would be an amazing place to go to medical school), it is NOT worth the price tag. $300k after four years? I'd rather not.

Almost every physician I have talked to (and I have talked to a lot) has told me to go wherever you get the most money. At the end of the day, as long as you go to a halfway decent medical school, you are still going to get a good residency if you do well and you will have that M.D. degree...people should stop nitpicking over rank anyway. All these schools are amazing! Just go with whatever works for you. Sometimes it seems like the people who say not to worry about money are the people that have never had to worry about it before...