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targetpractice

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Hi folks,

I'm currently in the middle of a Master's program. Trying to earn a new GPA. Currently I'm at a 3.53. I've gotten the hardest classes over with so hopefully it'll get up to 3.7 or so when done.
My undergrad GPA was 3.0 which is humiliating.
In undergrad I was severely sick for 3/4 of my years, undergoing treatment, and needing surgery. Instead of resigning, I trudged on. This was a HUGE mistake (if anyone else is in a similar situation, please don't make this mistake! It's miserable!) I know that now, but the damage is done. I'm now pretty horribly burnt out. I cannot describe how much I now loathe studying. I don't know if it's because I now associate schoolwork with the time I spent ill and in pain or if it's because I worked so hard just to barely pass (no amount of studying is going to let you do well when you have swollen, malformed organs preventing you from sleeping and a shot immune system landing you with severe infection after infection)
Worse yet I was so sick, I couldn't get very much clinical experience at all. I was literally too sick to be around patients!

Now I'm finally well; finally a normal, decently competent human being again. I'm currently trying to get a job with clinical experience. No luck yet... I wish all the time I spent as the patient counted! haha

I'm just not sure I can handle medical school. Even though I'm no longer downright horrible in classes, I still find myself hating studying. The idea of burying myself in the books for 5 more years while accumulating massive debt fills me with dread. I just spent undergrad either delirious or dead set on medical school, never really gave myself the chance to consider other options. I'm currently looking into clinical/medical laboratory science right now. It doesn't sound bad, but giving up the med school dream just hurts like hell, I feel like a failure.
Dread or failure can't be my only choices, I have to find another option.

I'm all ears if anyone has suggestions: to help lay the old dream to rest or revive it. I just need to do something with myself.
 
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Aquarius9017

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Have you thought about PA school? I believe some programs are 2 years long and the pay is pretty decent.
 
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Magus5454

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Have you thought about PA school? I believe some programs are 2 years long and the pay is pretty decent.
PA requires a ridiculous amount of clinical experience and are very competitive as well
 
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de Ribas

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For most PA schools you need on average at least 500 hours of paid direct patient care experience.
 

de Ribas

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Hi folks,

I'm currently in the middle of a Master's program. Trying to earn a new GPA. Currently I'm at a 3.53. I've gotten the hardest classes over with so hopefully it'll get up to 3.7 or so when done.
My undergrad GPA was 3.0 which is humiliating.
In undergrad I was severely sick for 3/4 of my years, undergoing treatment, and needing surgery. Instead of resigning, I trudged on. This was a HUGE mistake (if anyone else is in a similar situation, please don't make this mistake! It's miserable!) I know that now, but the damage is done. I'm now pretty horribly burnt out. I cannot describe how much I now loathe studying. I don't know if it's because I now associate schoolwork with the time I spent ill and in pain or if it's because I worked so hard just to barely pass (no amount of studying is going to let you do well when you have swollen, malformed organs preventing you from sleeping and a shot immune system landing you with severe infection after infection)
Worse yet I was so sick, I couldn't get very much clinical experience at all. I was literally too sick to be around patients!

Now I'm finally well; finally a normal, decently competent human being again. I'm currently trying to get a job with clinical experience. No luck yet... I wish all the time I spent as the patient counted! haha

I'm just not sure I can handle medical school. Even though I'm no longer downright horrible in classes, I still find myself hating studying. The idea of burying myself in the books for 5 more years while accumulating massive debt fills me with dread. I just spent undergrad either delirious or dead set on medical school, never really gave myself the chance to consider other options. I'm currently looking into clinical/medical laboratory science right now. It doesn't sound bad, but giving up the med school dream just hurts like hell, I feel like a failure.
Dread or failure can't be my only choices, I have to find another option.

I'm all ears if anyone has suggestions: to help lay the old dream to rest or revive it. I just need to do something with myself.
What are your Bachelors and Masters majors?

Have you thought about genetic counseling or jobs with clinical exposure of some sort?
 

John1513

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Podiatry
Optometry
Dental hygienist
Respiratory tech
Physical therapy (pT assistant -> pT -> doctor of PT

Ultrasound tech
Nurse (BSN , np)
Emt /paramedic / fire fighter
Speech pathologist
Lab tech sciences
Clinical research coordinator
Mental health tech
License clinical social worker
Psychology
Therapist
Wound care tech
Massage therapist
Chiropractor


Many many ways to have a career in health care, raise a family, and make an impact.

Best of luck
 
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Aquarius9017

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PA requires a ridiculous amount of clinical experience and are very competitive as well
I believe there are a handful of PA programs that consider scribing as a form of patient care interaction, well at least the programs here in CA that I have researched allow it. But you are totally correct, there are many schools that require extensive amount of direct patient contact.
 
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Goro

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Podiatry
Optometry
Dental hygienist
Respiratory tech
Physical therapy (pT assistant -> pT -> doctor of PT
Ultrasound tech
Nurse (BSN , np)
Emt /paramedic / fire fighter
Speech pathologist
Lab tech sciences
Clinical research coordinator
Mental health tech
License clinical social worker
Psychology
Therapist
Wound care tech
Massage therapist
Chiropractor


Many many ways to have a career in health care, raise a family, and make an impact.

Best of luck
To the above list, add:
Clinical trials coordinator
Research tech/lab mgr
Teaching
Technical writing
 
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targetpractice

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Thanks so much for the replies!

Have you thought about PA school? I believe some programs are 2 years long and the pay is pretty decent.

I have looked into PA school, but like Magnus5454 and PashaOdesit have pointed out, it's very competitive and I'm a really poor candidate for that program, both from my original GPA and lack of clinical experience. Even if I successfully gain a great deal of experience this year, I think that original GPA is bound to haunt me if I attempted to go down this road. Thanks for the idea though.
 
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targetpractice

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What are your Bachelors and Masters majors?

Have you thought about genetic counseling or jobs with clinical exposure of some sort?

I have a BS in Biology (and a BA in English). I'm halfway through a Master's in Biology.

I have not looked into genetic counseling. I'm not very familiar with that job, but I'll look into it, thank you.

I have considered different fields in nursing and research.
I've had a research job for about a year now. I thought it'd be a good fit for me. Unfortunately it's not given me any clinical experience, but I know my way around a lab very well. While I can conduct the research well, I really don't want to continue down that road.
 
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targetpractice

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Podiatry
Optometry
Dental hygienist
Respiratory tech
Physical therapy (pT assistant -> pT -> doctor of PT

Ultrasound tech
Nurse (BSN , np)
Emt /paramedic / fire fighter
Speech pathologist
Lab tech sciences
Clinical research coordinator
Mental health tech
License clinical social worker
Psychology
Therapist
Wound care tech
Massage therapist
Chiropractor


Many many ways to have a career in health care, raise a family, and make an impact.

Best of luck


This is a great list, thank you so much!
 
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targetpractice

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Also hope you know about “post Bach programs.”

Look it up and we will discuss more if needed

Post Bach Programs sound pretty great, especially since the curriculum would be so medically focused, but the price tag is a bit concerning. I'd just be really embarrassed if I put myself into debt, only to decide not to attempt medical school.
Say I opted not to apply medical school after the going into such a program. What else could I do with that degree? I feel like I need a plan B in case something goes wrong again.
 

targetpractice

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If you want to be a physician, don't give up

Thanks! I don't mean to be a quitter. I just kind of have to face the fact I might not be fit for medical school and being a doctor. Not to get dark, but say I get sick again? I've been okay in the Master's program, but kick the stress up a few more notches and I might find myself right back where I was in undergrad- sick as a dog and no help to anyone. I think I just really need a solid plan B before I move on from this point.
 
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giguerex35

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Thanks! I don't mean to be a quitter. I just kind of have to face the fact I might not be fit for medical school and being a doctor. Not to get dark, but say I get sick again? I've been okay in the Master's program, but kick the stress up a few more notches and I might find myself right back where I was in undergrad- sick as a dog and no help to anyone. I think I just really need a solid plan B before I move on from this point.
You might be the only rational and completely self aware pre med I’ve ever seen on this website
 
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Johnrawlsneuro

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Post Bach Programs sound pretty great, especially since the curriculum would be so medically focused, but the price tag is a bit concerning. I'd just be really embarrassed if I put myself into debt, only to decide not to attempt medical school.
Say I opted not to apply medical school after the going into such a program. What else could I do with that degree? I feel like I need a plan B in case something goes wrong again.

This level of self awareness is refreshing.

Regarding other clinician work like PA and NP - proving yourself in a post bacc would help with entry to those programs. And like a masters they’re only a couple years. Anecdotally, I know a few folks who went this path and really enjoyed it - they all had lower end GPAs.
 

de Ribas

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This level of self awareness is refreshing.

Regarding other clinician work like PA and NP - proving yourself in a post bacc would help with entry to those programs. And like a masters they’re only a couple years. Anecdotally, I know a few folks who went this path and really enjoyed it - they all had lower end GPAs.
NP route is a longer route for non-nursing majors. There are not many programs for non-nursing majors out there and most give only an accelerated BSN or MSN degree without NP. You will need 3-5 years in order to get NP.
 

Cardboard101

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I'd heavily advocate Podiatry if you can't get into MD or DO.
Their average is around a 3.0/498 MCAT
New law was passed that puts podiatrists on the same earning level as MD/DOs in the VA system.
 
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targetpractice

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This level of self awareness is refreshing.

Regarding other clinician work like PA and NP - proving yourself in a post bacc would help with entry to those programs. And like a masters they’re only a couple years. Anecdotally, I know a few folks who went this path and really enjoyed it - they all had lower end GPAs.

Y'all give me too much credit! I had to hit rock bottom to become self aware at all.

I'll keep PA and NP on the radar via post bacc.

The PA schools in my area only take about 30 students a year out of over 800 applicants. I'd have to really come in swinging if I wanted to get accepted.
 

targetpractice

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NP route is a longer route for non-nursing majors. There are not many programs for non-nursing majors out there and most give only an accelerated BSN or MSN degree without NP. You will need 3-5 years in order to get NP.

I know, it's unfortunate the non-nursing route is so long. If only I became self aware a little earlier! haha
 
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siliso

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What attracts you to medicine? Why did you/do you want to be a physician? That might lead to more relevant or expanded potential options outside of just those that will let you work next to physicians. If it’s that you love basic research and physiology, I’d have different ideas than if it’s that you love complex interpersonal relations and supporting people at difficult times of life, you know?
 

targetpractice

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I'd heavily advocate Podiatry if you can't get into MD or DO.
Their average is around a 3.0/498 MCAT
New law was passed that puts podiatrists on the same earning level as MD/DOs in the VA system.

Definitely considering Podiatry. Optometry too for that matter.
Currently my main issue is I'm not familiar with their curriculum, but I'm doing my research.

I know it's a sticky subject, but given my situation I would love to know, how intense is podiatry school? I know it's not a walk in the park, but is it pretty reasonably paced?

Balancing being a competitive go-getter, with trying to be aware I could really get hurt if I put myself through too much stress again is hard! (Don't mind me, just whining.)
 
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de Ribas

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Definitely considering Podiatry. Optometry too for that matter.
Currently my main issue is I'm not familiar with their curriculum, but I'm doing my research.

I know it's a sticky subject, but given my situation I would love to know, how intense is podiatry school? I know it's not a walk in the park, but is it pretty reasonably paced?

Balancing being a competitive go-getter, with trying to be aware I could really get hurt if I put myself through too much stress again is hard! (Don't mind me, just whining.)
Look at podiatry forums. Ask questions.

Most podiatry schools have same or similar curriculum as MD/DO programs for the first 2 years. For example, at DMU, 1st and 2nd year DOs and DPMs take together. At Rosalind Franklin University, first 3 semesters DPMs take with MDs.
 
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de Ribas

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I know, it's unfortunate the non-nursing route is so long. If only I became self aware a little earlier! haha
If you are ok with just being a nurse, it's not that hard. There are accelerated BSN programs that you can get done within about 4-6 semesters. You don't need formal post-bacc for these. Usually they only require only certain prerequisites of which you probably have some taken.

Mostly they require:

1. Gen Chem
2. Nutrition
3. Anatomy and Physioligy (sequence or individual courses)
4. Lifespan Psychology
5. Microbiology
6. Statistics
7. Pathophysiology
8. Abnormal psychology

Once you get your RN license, you can start working and get at least $25-30/hr. Then you can start your BSN-DNP program which is mostly online.

This route is good if you get sick or something happens, you can always stop and continue later. Plus DNP or MSN-NP programs are mostly part-time.

Also, it is easier financially since you are working full time while taking courses.


There are also MN ot MSN programs for people with non-nursing bachelors degrees. Some programs like that are also about 4-6 semesters long. At my state, for example, after you get your MN degree, you can get your DNP in 1 year or 3 years depending on the specialty you choose. There are 12 specialties available.
 

allin1211

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I have a BS in Biology (and a BA in English). I'm halfway through a Master's in Biology.

I have not looked into genetic counseling. I'm not very familiar with that job, but I'll look into it, thank you.

I have considered different fields in nursing and research.
I've had a research job for about a year now. I thought it'd be a good fit for me. Unfortunately it's not given me any clinical experience, but I know my way around a lab very well. While I can conduct the research well, I really don't want to continue down that road.

i know you said you dont want to continue down the whole research road, but working as an research associate at a Biotech/Pharm company will net you around $85k with your masters + research experience. Before medical school, I was working in a biotech company making $100k with somewhat of a similar resume as you. Just a thought.
 

targetpractice

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What attracts you to medicine? Why did you/do you want to be a physician? That might lead to more relevant or expanded potential options outside of just those that will let you work next to physicians. If it’s that you love basic research and physiology, I’d have different ideas than if it’s that you love complex interpersonal relations and supporting people at difficult times of life, you know?


That is a good point.

I like that medicine is practical and purposeful (and as a bonus, fulfilling). It takes research and applies it. It requires studying, but you get to a point where it's hands on. The idealist side of me loved the idea of helping people heal with my own two hands. This is part of why I always do really well in labs. I'm naturally inclined towards research (especially when combined with application) being careful, thorough, and meticulous. Previously I thought this was the side of medicine I liked more, but right now I'm uncertain. So far, research is fulfilling in that I know I'm not wasting my brain, but I'm not keen on how much it feels more like school than work. This might be because I'm working at the same school I'm attending...

In terms of supporting people, I'm decent, but not exceptional generally speaking, nor do I crave it the way some people do. Where I am adept is with people who are socially awkward, introverted, special needs, nervous, standoffish, etc. I do have a little patient experience through a charity that visits and sick kids and their families in the hospital. That's where I learned I'm actually good at putting people at ease. Even when they're so nervous or overwhelmed they're literally hiding in the corner away from everyone, I know how to help them.
I thought this specific skill would make me a good doctor since communication is so important. If I'm able to work with people who struggle in that regard, then I'd be sure that despite any of these sorts of difficulties, they got the care they needed.

Does this help at all? I hope this wasn't just rambling.
 

targetpractice

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Look at podiatry forums. Ask questions.

Most podiatry schools have same or similar curriculum as MD/DO programs for the first 2 years. For example, at DMU, 1st and 2nd year DOs and DPMs take together. At Rosalind Franklin University, first 3 semesters DPMs take with MDs.

Will do! Also thank you for the information. It's good to know.
 

targetpractice

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If you are ok with just being a nurse, it's not that hard. There are accelerated BSN programs that you can get done within about 4-6 semesters. You don't need formal post-bacc for these. Usually they only require only certain prerequisites of which you probably have some taken.

Mostly they require:

1. Gen Chem
2. Nutrition
3. Anatomy and Physioligy (sequence or individual courses)
4. Lifespan Psychology
5. Microbiology
6. Statistics
7. Pathophysiology
8. Abnormal psychology

Once you get your RN license, you can start working and get at least $25-30/hr. Then you can start your BSN-DNP program which is mostly online.

This route is good if you get sick or something happens, you can always stop and continue later. Plus DNP or MSN-NP programs are mostly part-time.

Also, it is easier financially since you are working full time while taking courses.


There are also MN ot MSN programs for people with non-nursing bachelors degrees. Some programs like that are also about 4-6 semesters long. At my state, for example, after you get your MN degree, you can get your DNP in 1 year or 3 years depending on the specialty you choose. There are 12 specialties available.

Since I am considering this route, I've been trying to figure out how I would gain the necessary prerequisites for an accelerated BSN program. Surprisingly I am missing several of those classes even though I have a BS in Biology. My undergrad school just really separated the Biology students from the Nursing ones.

I didn't know there were online DNP programs and that you could work full time during them, that's really good to know!
 

de Ribas

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Since I am considering this route, I've been trying to figure out how I would gain the necessary prerequisites for an accelerated BSN program. Surprisingly I am missing several of those classes even though I have a BS in Biology. My undergrad school just really separated the Biology students from the nursing ones.

I didn't know there were online DNP programs and that you could work full time during them, that's really good to know!
You can fulfill these prerequisites even with online courses.

Most MSN or NP programs are online. You can often see nurses studying on breaks in hospitals.

Make sure you know what to expect after you get your BSN. Some DNP programs take 5 years after you get your BSN. Some only have couple specialties and some offer variety of specialties.
 
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John1513

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Podiatry is surgical training. I would venture to say quite stressful as well.

You are asking great questions. Self awareness is key. Medical route is extremely stressful.

Look up some articles on physician suicide - it is very real.

RN life can be very comfortable. Overtime etc.

What you said about post Bach , being afraid of wasting your time and money — becoming a physician ( if indeed it is what you want to do) must be an obsession if it were to become reality.

In an auditorium of say 300 “premeds” in Organic chemistry, about 40 will eventually make it through the gauntlet of becoming an MD or a DO.

You are asking great questions - keep it up!!
 
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targetpractice

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i know you said you dont want to continue down the whole research road, but working as an research associate at a Biotech/Pharm company will net you around $85k with your masters + research experience. Before medical school, I was working in a biotech company making $100k with somewhat of a similar resume as you. Just a thought.

I'll still look into it, thanks for the tip!
I might be in a bit of a rut or something right now. Research was my original Plan B. Logically it makes sense. I'm already on this path and everything.

Can you tell me this, if I got hired by a company, would conducting research in that setting be much different than how it's conducted in an academic one? Right now I'm working at the same university I'm attending, under a professor. It feels like class. I even find myself consistently up late reading through materials and outputs as if it was my homework and I had an exam coming. Maybe it gets better later, I am just a year into it.
 

targetpractice

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You can fulfill these prerequisites even with online courses.

Most MSN or NP programs are online. You can often see nurses studying on breaks in hospitals.

Make sure you know what to expect after you get your BSN. Some DNP programs take 5 years after you get your BSN. Some only have couple specialties and some offer variety of specialties.

Oh wow, good to know online is a viable option for the prerequisites.

Regardless of the path I take, I'll make sure to look very carefully before I leap. Five years is a long time... but at least it's not like medical school where that'd be five years of all study and no job or income.
 

targetpractice

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Podiatry is surgical training. I would venture to say quite stressful as well.

You are asking great questions. Self awareness is key. Medical route is extremely stressful.

Look up some articles on physician suicide - it is very real.

RN life can be very comfortable. Overtime etc.

What you said about post Bach , being afraid of wasting your time and money — becoming a physician ( if indeed it is what you want to do) must be an obsession if it were to become reality.

In an auditorium of say 300 “premeds” in Organic chemistry, about 40 will eventually make it through the gauntlet of becoming an MD or a DO.

You are asking great questions - keep it up!!

I see, I had heard that the the admissions standards did not reflect the level of difficulty. I'd definitely have to tread with caution if I went that road.

Thanks!

I actually heard about physician suicide and looked into it thoroughly. I won't say it's the reason I'm changing course, but it definitely further drove home my need of a reality check.

I keep getting conflicting accounts of comfortable life as an RN and RNs being severely overworked. I clearly need more research in this regard.

My problem is I have the obsession but external limitations necessitate that obsession be redirected. It's not easy, but doable I'm sure.

Maybe it's just my pride, but I don't want to be in the number that just "didn't make it through the gauntlet" (though technically true)... I hope to be able to give my all to another route.

Thanks again! I will! :)
 

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Look into dentistry if you have a state school. 4 years and after you make 120K to really the sky is the limit if you are good at business. Realistically, you'll make 120-160K working 9am-5pm. Much less stressful than being a physician, and you will learn a skill most people wont have.
 

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Podiatry is something you should look heavily into.
PA is good but is competitive (2 years)
NP is going to be easier to get into (3 years, 1 year BSN —>2yr NP)
Physical therapy is an option but go straight for the DPT.

You should seriously shadow these jobs and you might be surprised at what you enjoy.
This is not all about prestige and money. These jobs all have fantastic salaries.

I will also mention CRNA. Many may say this road is too long.
1 year BSN—> ICU job for 1-2 years (make decent money and pay some loans/live a little)
Then apply to CRNA masters which I believe is 2.5 years
If you are young shadow a CRNA as well this option is a long road (NOT longer than med+resid)
But you need to find out what you want for YOU.
 

de Ribas

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1 year BSN —>2yr NP)
2 year NP after BSN?
Where did you find that?

The majority I have seen are 4-5 years. Most NP programs are DNP now. Even doing Masters, it is at least 36 hours which if you take 6-7 credits per semester, will take up to three years.
 

de Ribas

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I will also mention CRNA. Many may say this road is too long.
1 year BSN—> ICU job for 1-2 years (make decent money and pay some loans/live a little)
Then apply to CRNA masters which I believe is 2.5 years
If you are young shadow a CRNA as well this option is a long road (NOT longer than med+resid)
But you need to find out what you want for YOU.
These numbers are theoretical. It is extremely hard to get ICU job right after BSN. So, for a person with non-nursing Bachelors, it might actually be longer yo become CRNA than becoming a physician.
 

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Agreed and the ICU issue is dependent on area.
I suppose the main point of my post is that OP should focus on end goals and the work towards them. Who cares if one takes 1-2 more years of work.
 

Blanky

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DNP does not take 4 or 5 years unless you go part time. In the ED I work in half our nurses are working on their NP online. I know three that finished in two years and one still works in our ED as a mid level.
 

targetpractice

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Look into dentistry if you have a state school. 4 years and after you make 120K to really the sky is the limit if you are good at business. Realistically, you'll make 120-160K working 9am-5pm. Much less stressful than being a physician, and you will learn a skill most people wont have.

I do have a state dentistry school so maybe.
 

Blanky

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Stop thinking about whats available and find what you like doing day to day.
 

targetpractice

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Podiatry is something you should look heavily into.
PA is good but is competitive (2 years)
NP is going to be easier to get into (3 years, 1 year BSN —>2yr NP)
Physical therapy is an option but go straight for the DPT.

You should seriously shadow these jobs and you might be surprised at what you enjoy.
This is not all about prestige and money. These jobs all have fantastic salaries.

I will also mention CRNA. Many may say this road is too long.
1 year BSN—> ICU job for 1-2 years (make decent money and pay some loans/live a little)
Then apply to CRNA masters which I believe is 2.5 years
If you are young shadow a CRNA as well this option is a long road (NOT longer than med+resid)
But you need to find out what you want for YOU.

I love the work Podiatrists do, so I am looking into it! But I can't get my heart set on it. Same for being a PA. There are factors that make those less likely than others.

I'll also look more into NP- that's a decently practical contender here. I wouldn't know if I'd go part time or full time yet, but I do appreciate the flexibility in that!

Physical Therapy... maybe. I've never thought myself to be a good fit for that.

I've shadowed a Dermatologist, PA, and medical assistant. I'll definitely try to shadow these other occupations, there's been so many plausible roads here (thanks so much for that everyone!), it's probably the only way I could possibly figure this out.

I looked into CRNA awhile back, it's a maybe.

Thanks for the information!
 

targetpractice

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2 year NP after BSN?
Where did you find that?

The majority I have seen are 4-5 years. Most NP programs are DNP now. Even doing Masters, it is at least 36 hours which if you take 6-7 credits per semester, will take up to three years.

Duly noted, thank you!
 

targetpractice

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Agreed and the ICU issue is dependent on area.
I suppose the main point of my post is that OP should focus on end goals and the work towards them. Who cares if one takes 1-2 more years of work.

I'll check into ICU opportunities in my area.

Well time spent in school tends to mean more debt and more time that's hanging over my head. But I completely agree, this thread, although extremely helpful, can go on forever and at the end of the day I'm just going to have to move on from the brainstorming stage, choose a path, and get to work.
 
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