# Which GPA Should be Used for LizzyM Score?

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#### Dr. ThorStrange

##### Full Member

What I mean by this: Do you use the cGPA you had when applying to schools, or can it be calculated using an updated cGPA, such as after another semester?

Another way to look at it: Should you stick to one LizzyM Score, or should you recalculate each time after updating your cGPA, such as after another semester?

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#### MyOdyssey

##### Full Member
5+ Year Member
I have a LizzyM question.

How does one convert a new MCAT score to an old MCAT score (on the old scale) in order to compute Lizzy M?

#### Blanky

##### Full Member
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I have a LizzyM question.

How does one convert a new MCAT score to an old MCAT score (on the old scale) in order to compute Lizzy M?
LizzyM works with new MCATs...

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#### Goro

##### Full Member
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What I mean by this: Do you use the GPA you had when applying to schools, or can it be calculated using an updated GPA, such as after another semester?

Another way to look at it: Do you only have one LizzyM Score, or can it change?
Use cGPA.

It's a rule of thumb, kids, not one of the 10 Commandments.

For new vs old MCAT scores, I have a rough comparison, but you can use %iles. Another rule of thumb: 511 new = 31 old.

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#### MyOdyssey

##### Full Member
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So for TMCAS schools, one uses the cGPA as computed via the more generous TMCAS formulation instead of the AMCAS formulation?

#### LizzyM

##### the evil queen of numbers
15+ Year Member
So for TMCAS schools, one uses the cGPA as computed via the more generous TMCAS formulation instead of the AMCAS formulation?
Yes, I'd say that that makes sense when you are comparing your stats to the school's stats... use the same forumla that the school uses to determine GPA.

#### Peter Pan.

##### Membership Revoked
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I don’t understand why cGPA is used when sGPA is far more important. What about those applicants with higher cGPAs but lower sGPAs. They’re being given a false hope. Then those with higher sGPAs but lower cGPAs would be applying to less competitive schools. All you really need is the MSAR.

#### LizzyM

##### the evil queen of numbers
15+ Year Member
I don’t understand why cGPA is used when sGPA is far more important. What about those applicants with higher cGPAs but lower sGPAs. They’re being given a false hope. Then those with higher sGPAs but lower cGPAs would be applying to less competitive schools. All you really need is the MSAR.

Use whichever you please, just compare like with like. The point is to match your stats with those of the schools so you apply to those schools that are most likely to interview you. At the time the score was developed, the MSAR didn't have as much info as it does now and part of the point was to be able to use data available from the schools' websites rather than paying for the MSAR or USNews.

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#### Peter Pan.

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Use whichever you please, just compare like with like. The point is to match your stats with those of the schools so you apply to those schools that are most likely to interview you. At the time the score was developed, the MSAR didn't have as much info as it does now and part of the point was to be able to use data available from the schools' websites rather than paying for the MSAR or USNews.

I’ve looked on schools websites and sometimes they only have the entering 2015 or 2016 class (some even older than that) GPA and MCAT. But with med school getting more competitive each year those numbers are often lower(considerably sometimes) than their most recent class.

9

#### 907914

Use whichever you please, just compare like with like. The point is to match your stats with those of the schools so you apply to those schools that are most likely to interview you. At the time the score was developed, the MSAR didn't have as much info as it does now and part of the point was to be able to use data available from the schools' websites rather than paying for the MSAR or USNews.
@LizzyM Now that all of these resources are available, it feels even more difficult. For those outliers who don't fit any school, what do you recommend? Right now, my cGPA will be 3.65, sGPA will be 3.97 and MCAT projected to be 515-517 (We can only hope!). So, at schools where my cGPA matches, my sGPA and MCAT are above the 90th. But at schools where my sGPA and MCAT match, my cGPA is below the 25th or even 10th. What are the outliers supposed to do? In this case, will sGPA and MCAT make up for not-terrible/not-great GPA?

#### Blanky

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It's obviously ideal to have your cGPA and sGPA within range of each other. If you have huge gaps then your LizzyM is going to be some vague in between.

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#### Blanky

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@LizzyM Now that all of these resources are available, it feels even more difficult. For those outliers who don't fit any school, what do you recommend? Right now, my cGPA will be 3.65, sGPA will be 3.97 and MCAT projected to be 515-517 (We can only hope!). So, at schools where my cGPA matches, my sGPA and MCAT are above the 90th. But at schools where my sGPA and MCAT match, my cGPA is below the 25th or even 10th. What are the outliers supposed to do? In this case, will sGPA and MCAT make up for not-terrible/not-great GPA?

Your cGPA and sGPA are fine. How are you guessing such a high MCAT? Do you have AAMC FL 1/2 timed at that high of a score?

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#### Kahalaopuna

##### Full Member
2+ Year Member
I'm a nontraditional student with a cGPA of 3.45 and a sGPA of 3.61. These values include a 99+ credit DIY postbacc/second bachelors degree at 3.85 GPA. Which GPA should I use for my LizzyM calculation?

9

#### 907914

Your cGPA and sGPA are fine. How are you guessing such a high MCAT? Do you have AAMC FL 1/2 timed at that high of a score?
Taking my first scored FL in 2 weeks, but AAMC Qbanks are all >90% except cars QB1, section bank is all >85% and the practice FL works out to a 517-519 depending on which resource I use to guesstimate. Additionally, I have 3 more months to study, a solid study plan, a very supportive wife who is watching our daughter more so I may have extended after-hours library time, and only have Micro and Psych next quarter. I deflated down to 515 because I can never be too confident, and even then 515 is hopeful and I will be happy with anything beyond a 510.

#### LizzyM

##### the evil queen of numbers
15+ Year Member
I'm a nontraditional student with a cGPA of 3.45 and a sGPA of 3.61. These values include a 99+ credit DIY postbacc/second bachelors degree at 3.85 GPA. Which GPA should I use for my LizzyM calculation?

The LizzyM score did not come down from Mount Sinai engraved on two tablets. It is a guideline for the run-of-the-mill applicant. People with long and winding roads to the AMCAS are going to have a harder time getting the attention of medical schools but as long as you aren't screened out due to a super low undergrad GPA (<10th percentile) and you can get eyeballs on your application, you might be okay but it is going to be harder to decide which schools are going to give you some love vs those who will ignore you because your undergrad GPA is less than benchmark. You are a smart person, you'll figure it out. Just don't apply to Harvard, Hopkins and Duke and call it a day. It was situations of that nature that inspired the development of the score with my name.

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#### Lawpy

##### 39% Full Member
7+ Year Member
Try this:
Efle's MCAT 2015 to Old MCAT Percentile Comparison/Conversion Tables
There is a new LizzyM formula that is supposed to be easy to do in your head but I don't remember it.

I don't know if there is one. there's a variation I suggested a while ago that was:

Score = 10*(GPA + 2) + (MCAT - 500) (-8 <= score <= 88)

Old 76 (i.e. 3.8/38 or 3.9/37) is new 80. This is generally the number to shoot for for top schools.

Old 73 (i.e. 3.8/35 or 3.9/34) is new 75. This is generally a good number for mid tiers while possibly being competitive for some top tiers.

Old 70 (i.e. 3.7/33 or 3.9/31) is new 70. This is generally where a "competitive" applicant for med school falls around.

Old 67 (i.e. 3.6/31 or 3.7/30) is new 65. This is around the accepted applicant median.

Old 65 (i.e. 3.6/29 or 3.7/28) is new 60. This is highly competitive for DOs and marginal for MD.

#### Goro

##### Full Member
10+ Year Member
@LizzyM Now that all of these resources are available, it feels even more difficult. For those outliers who don't fit any school, what do you recommend? Right now, my cGPA will be 3.65, sGPA will be 3.97 and MCAT projected to be 515-517 (We can only hope!). So, at schools where my cGPA matches, my sGPA and MCAT are above the 90th. But at schools where my sGPA and MCAT match, my cGPA is below the 25th or even 10th. What are the outliers supposed to do? In this case, will sGPA and MCAT make up for not-terrible/not-great GPA?
When you have an MCAT score, then we can advise. Until then, it's all speculation.

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#### Blanky

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Taking my first scored FL in 2 weeks, but AAMC Qbanks are all >90% except cars QB1, section bank is all >85% and the practice FL works out to a 517-519 depending on which resource I use to guesstimate. Additionally, I have 3 more months to study, a solid study plan, a very supportive wife who is watching our daughter more so I may have extended after-hours library time, and only have Micro and Psych next quarter. I deflated down to 515 because I can never be too confident, and even then 515 is hopeful and I will be happy with anything beyond a 510.
It sounds like you are on the right path but I can assure you I was in the exact same range 90%+ qpacks, 83%ish for section banks and a 516 converted for aamc sample and then kept studying through FL1-3 and came out with a 507..
I have faith in you but don’t overestimate.

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9

#### 907914

I have faith in you but don’t overestimate.
I will be hopeful for a >510. Thank you for the faith, and I will be keen not to overestimate my abilities. It is just hard to plan ahead when the only real help I can get is when I have a cemented MCAT score.

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#### MyOdyssey

##### Full Member
5+ Year Member
The Application Assistant does the math for you:

LizzyM Score Calculator - What are my chances for medical school?

It has been recently updated with the latest AAMC data and we’ve also added flags if schools are HBCUs or don’t accept many out-of-state applicants.

Thanks for posting. I'm pretty sure the average MCAT for medical schools has NOT been updated yet.

I believe the latest reported average MCAT for Yale is 521, not 518.

#### WildWing

##### SDN Staff
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Thanks for posting. I'm pretty sure the average MCAT for medical schools has NOT been updated yet.

I believe the latest reported average MCAT for Yale is 521, not 518.

Sorry, I was not clear. The tables we use for the calculator have been updated to the latest AAMC data, as that data is published publicly. The individual school data has to be researched on each schools website and updated individually since we cannot use copyrighted MSAR data. We are targeting a research project for that update in 2019.

#### Hirro

##### Full Member
5+ Year Member
I have a ridiculous upward trend in my cGPA as well as a large disparity between my GPA's with my sGPA being much higher than my cGPA (>0.3). When targeting which schools to apply to based on LizzyM, I averaged the two to account for the trend and the much higher sGPA. I did not apply to schools where my cGPA was below the 10%ile mark on MSAR (with the exception of 2 reaches). I believe doing this helped me get a better grasp on which schools were in "range" for me.

I would only really do this if you have a big disparity in your GPA's (>0.15). The LizzyM score is helpful to generalize the schools you should be aiming for. After that, I would use the MSAR to narrow schools down by specific stats such as MCAT, cGPA, sGPA, IS vs. OOS. Note that it is also helpful to see the cGPA, sGPA, and MCAT of IS students vs. OOS students (if the schools have higher averages for either of these). When deciding where to apply, don't put too much weight into the LizzyM score. It's very helpful when you're beginning your school list. When you need to start narrowing things down, there are better tools.

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