Why You Shouldn't Go into Medicine.

[HPSPpayissues]

Oh. My. God. That makes me so angry on so many levels. It takes up time away from the other patients (because these idiotic parents seem to expect their 7 month old to answer my questions ). It makes clinic run slower. And, above all, why in God's name should I, as a total stranger, care more about the well-being of their child than they do???

I am pretty sure you are going to be a real compassionate physician...

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[pianola]

I would like to think that I'd be a little bit less judgmental about my patients' situations than Panda Bear and others on two specific counts: wasting the healthcare dollars of taxpayers and patients making poor healthcare decisions for themselves.

If patients are wasting healthcare money and are making poor decisions for themselves, well...that's their business. I can't say I've never made a poor decision related to my health. I haven't walked a mile in these patients' shoes. I don't know what kind of s*it they have going on in their lives. And honestly, I'll be making some money because this guy happened to be sick...

And besides that (I don't know if this makes me an uncaring person), but I honestly don't know that my thought processes would go very far beyond the immediate thought of "how can I get this guy fixed?"

To put it bluntly, I don't know if I'd care a whole lot about "whose fault it was" that this guy got 5 STDs.

Maybe I will care, who knows.

 

[Appless]

I am pretty sure you are going to be a real compassionate physician...

Why is it that anytime someone complains about medicine people want to jump on them and say how much of a failure they will be at medicine. Every job sucks at times. I dont understand all these idiot pre meds who have these fake ideas of altruism and just spout bs about saving people when its all just a bunch of bs for probably 90% of them. Are physicians not allowed to be frustrated at their job or the state of it? Just becuase someone thinks the way panda or others does doesnt mean they are a bad doctor. Ive never met one doctor who didnt at times feel like they hated their job or were frustrated with it. but in the end they get over and the good cancels the bad. Its just crazy that so many of these pre meds who have no idea what life is like in the first place as everything is taken care of them by their parents think that you have to be this overly happy person with ridiculous ideas about saving the world to be a good doctor. Everyone gets burned out sometimes and people vent.

 

[MadEvans]

I'm not going into medicine anymore. I just decided it. I like to cook my own meals for myself at least 2 nights per week, and if I'm not able to do that at any point in my life then said career is just not worth it. I've already lost most of my non-pre-med friends by already being an intensely busy masochist, so that's nothing really to worry about.

However, I've been able to accomplish this (cooking for fun) while working 36-48 hours per week the last two years, going to school full time (15-18 credit hrs/semester, then there's the homework), and doing some EC's too: 10 hrs/wk research and ~4 hrs per week other stuff. So, with the 80 hr/wk residency cap... maybe I'll be able to pull it off?

Oh, and I'm really nice to my wife. So that throws his "you can't maintain healthy relationships" deal out the window. How much busier could I be during med school/residency/working MD?

 

[melanoleuca]

I call .

Some of my whiniest classmates have been non-trads. (Heck, some of the whiniest people on SDN were non-trads. Panda Bear was a Marine before med school.) And some of the most stoic were those who went straight through college into med school.

And an engineer after that and all kinds of things before and I assure you that there is no other job in the United States or Europe except medicine where, during your extensive training you are required to miss sleep and work 30 hours straight every fourth day. I pretty much did that for two years, some people do it for much longer.

Everything in the article linked at the beginning of the thread is true. Some of it may be slightly exaggerated but it is true nonetheless.

 

[melanoleuca]

Why is it that anytime someone complains about medicine people want to jump on them and say how much of a failure they will be at medicine. Every job sucks at times. I dont understand all these idiot pre meds who have these fake ideas of altruism and just spout bs about saving people when its all just a bunch of bs for probably 90% of them. Are physicians not allowed to be frustrated at their job or the state of it? Just becuase someone thinks the way panda or others does doesnt mean they are a bad doctor. Ive never met one doctor who didnt at times feel like they hated their job or were frustrated with it. but in the end they get over and the good cancels the bad. Its just crazy that so many of these pre meds who have no idea what life is like in the first place as everything is taken care of them by their parents think that you have to be this overly happy person with ridiculous ideas about saving the world to be a good doctor. Everyone gets burned out sometimes and people vent.

Apparently, and although like most graduating residents I feel like a little bit of a fraud, I am considered a very good doctor by people who know me.

Let me say this again. Ten years ago there was nothing to compare to the wealth of information you aspiring doctors have at your fingertips today. Back then all you had was "House of God" and some crappy books at Barnes and Noble. Even on SDN there was a paucity of real information because nobody on it had been to that strange, incomprehensible country of American Medicine and returned to tell the spectacular tale.

And yet, like Marco Polo returning from Cathay, our strange-but-true stories of a bizarre and savage world are met with disbelief and our motives are questioned when we take the time to tell them to you. Believe us, don't believe us. But many of you are going to be surprised at how accurate the information you are being given will turn out to be.

 

[236116]

And yet, like Marco Polo returning from Cathay, our strange-but-true stories of a bizarre and savage world are met with disbelief and our motives are questioned when we take the time to tell them to you. Believe us, don't believe us. But many of you are going to be surprised at how accurate the information you are being given will turn out to be.

QUOTED for TRUTH

 

[Doctor J]

How much busier could I be during med school/residency/working MD?

Much, much busier. Your schedule sounds full but I am sure that the things you were doing did not inflict the level of mental and physical stress that residency does. Where your workweek before was busy but not unmanageable you will likely be exhausted at the end of your new 80 hour workweek.

Or not. It's all very individual.

 

[smq123]

I am pretty sure you are going to be a real compassionate physician...

This is one of the most ridiculous comments I have seen. It's the fact that, you know, I actually CARE about the patient that I have in front of me (i.e. the child) that causes me so much frustration. It frustrates me that his mother can't be bothered to pay attention when I try to warn her that her 2 month old should always be sleeping on his back...and NOT his stomach. Maybe you, from your perch atop that high horse of yours, can see things differently, but I would say that trying to prevent a baby from needlessly dying of SIDS would qualify as "compassionate."

I am perfectly willing to admit that no, I don't have her particular lifestyle and that I haven't walked a mile in her exact shoes. But growing up in "the 'hood" is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for not doing your best to keep your children as healthy as possible. It angers and saddens me that I end up feeling like I care more about how the kid does than his own mother does.

Save your idiotic self-righteous drivel for when you've actually taken care of patients and have some idea of what I'm talking about.

If patients are wasting healthcare money and are making poor decisions for themselves, well...that's their business. I can't say I've never made a poor decision related to my health. I haven't walked a mile in these patients' shoes. I don't know what kind of s*it they have going on in their lives. And honestly, I'll be making some money because this guy happened to be sick...

And besides that (I don't know if this makes me an uncaring person), but I honestly don't know that my thought processes would go very far beyond the immediate thought of "how can I get this guy fixed?"

To put it bluntly, I don't know if I'd care a whole lot about "whose fault it was" that this guy got 5 STDs.

Maybe I will care, who knows.

<sigh> You probably will care. You might not care that some guy gets five STDs....but when he KEEPS coming back to you WITH THE SAME FIVE STDs, then yes, you'll care.

It's human to feel frustrated whenever you engage in a Sisyphen endeavor. It's naive to assume that you'll be any different.

Your thought processes have to go beyond "how can I get this guy fixed"? That's what they teach in medical school now - not just fixing problems, but also prevention. And prevention is the hard part to learn. If there was unlimited money, and you had unlimited time and energy, prevention would probably not be a big focus. But because there isn't unlimited money, prevention is what they teach....but prevention is the part that patients don't always "get."

And yes, you will absolutely care when a "frequent flyer" who refuses to take care of himself is your last patient, and is the reason why you end up leaving work 2 hours late, can't pick up your daughter from daycare, end up missing your son's piano recital, etc.... If you think you won't care, you are kidding yourself.

However, I've been able to accomplish this (cooking for fun) while working 36-48 hours per week the last two years, going to school full time (15-18 credit hrs/semester, then there's the homework), and doing some EC's too: 10 hrs/wk research and ~4 hrs per week other stuff. So, with the 80 hr/wk residency cap... maybe I'll be able to pull it off?

Oh, and I'm really nice to my wife. So that throws his "you can't maintain healthy relationships" deal out the window. How much busier could I be during med school/residency/working MD?

Are you kidding?

I don't know whether to be insulted or to laugh. What, you think I just coasted through college and still magically managed to get into med school? That I'd never worked an 80 hour week while in college?

I worked just as hard as you did, if not harder, in college. And yes, MS3 and MS4 were still HUGELY draining - like nothing I had to deal with in college.

First of all, the 80 hours only hold for when you are a resident. When you are an attending, you may have to work more than 80 hours.

Secondly, do you think that residents just leave work at hospital? No - the 80 hours does NOT cover the vast amounts of reading you need to do at home. Or the presentations you'll have to put together for grand conference, etc. Or all the paperwork that you will need to do. Or the time that you will put in sleeping to make up for all the nights you were on call.

 

[pianola]

<sigh> You probably will care. You might not care that some guy gets five STDs....but when he KEEPS coming back to you WITH THE SAME FIVE STDs, then yes, you'll care.

It's human to feel frustrated whenever you engage in a Sisyphen endeavor. It's naive to assume that you'll be any different.

Your thought processes have to go beyond "how can I get this guy fixed"? That's what they teach in medical school now - not just fixing problems, but also prevention. And prevention is the hard part to learn. If there was unlimited money, and you had unlimited time and energy, prevention would probably not be a big focus. But because there isn't unlimited money, prevention is what they teach....but prevention is the part that patients don't always "get."

And yes, you will absolutely care when a "frequent flyer" who refuses to take care of himself is your last patient, and is the reason why you end up leaving work 2 hours late, can't pick up your daughter from daycare, end up missing your son's piano recital, etc.... If you think you won't care, you are kidding yourself.

Well, I don't know how residency schedules are set up. --> You see X number of patients or you work X number of hours, maybe? I don't understand why Mr. STDs, HIMSELF will be responsible for me leaving work 2 hours late.

Just because that guy with 5 STDs is my last patient every single day for a week (or 3 weeks, I don't know) does that really materially change my fate? Because he's a return visit, will I somehow have to see more patients that day?

If it was some other guy with 5 STDs would that somehow make it better?

I guess that's the part I don't "get". I could blame him, sure, but if it wasn't him keeping me 2 hours late, it would be someone else, probably.

Yeah I'd like to teach Mr. STDs, 'prevention' but I'm not going into this profession assuming that I can change the way people think about themselves or their health. If I can change their mindsets, I consider it a bonus, of course. But it's hardly the assumption I'm working under. (Call me pessimistic?)

People pretty much do what they want.

Haha, maybe I'm going into the wrong field.

 

[236116]

People pretty much do what they want.

Haha, maybe I'm going into the wrong field.

Don't mind her.

 

[smq123]

Well, I don't know how residency schedules are set up. --> You see X number of patients or you work X number of hours, maybe? I don't understand why Mr. STDs, HIMSELF will be responsible for me leaving work 2 hours late.

Generally, you work X number of hours. But when you take on a patient during your shift, it's considered really bad form to drop work on that patient, even when your shift is technically over. (Emergency medicine is kind of the exception to this, since they're supposed to work in shifts. But even so, most EM doctors don't leave exactly when their shift is supposed to end.)

If you get a complicated patient 15 minutes before you're supposed to leave....you're not going to be leaving until everything is done.

If it was some other guy with 5 STDs would that somehow make it better?

In a way, kind of.

If it's the first time, you can kind of understand that it's possible that they didn't really understand the severity of their risky behavior.

When it's the second or third time, it starts to get frustrating on a few levels. Yeah, it's more of your time and energy. But you also have to wonder - if they're willing to keep engaging in the same type of risky behavior over and over again, do they understand that they could be putting other women at risk? Do they understand that their poor choices could have a major impact on other people? If they keep getting reinfected, you can assume that they don't understand how serious STDs can be....so they're probably not telling their partners or using condoms.

And if they keep on this path, how long will it be before they come down with HIV?

STDs may be a bad example, because that also implies that they could be infecting other people. If it's something like Type 2 diabetes, it's also a bit frustrating, but not nearly as much. If they want to destroy their own bodies, that's up to them. While it's sad to watch people go downhill, after having had both legs amputated, and it is hugely expensive for the hospital, it bothers me less.

Yeah I'd like to teach Mr. STDs, 'prevention' but I'm not going into this profession assuming that I can change the way people think about themselves or their health. If I can change their mindsets, I consider it a bonus, of course. But it's hardly the assumption I'm working under. (Call me pessimistic?)

People pretty much do what they want.

Haha, maybe I'm going into the wrong field.

I thought that way too, but at some point you start to despair of people taking even basic responsibility for themselves.

The hardest part, though, is watching people do things that place other people at risk. If you want to snort cocaine it ruins your life, but that's kind of up to you. But if you do it while you're pregnant....THAT gets truly heart breaking.

Not to mention that they sue the doctor when they have a placental abruption because "The doctor didn't tell me that cocaine was bad!"

 

[smq123]

Don't mind her.

I like medicine, for the most part. I think that the purpose behind it merits the amount of work and energy that you end up putting into it. And when you DO get to help someone, and play a role in saving their lives, or make their lives measurably better, that's a wonderful feeling.

That being said, it gets frustrating when people read that article (which, really, is very thought provoking and has a lot of excellent and accurate points) and dismiss it. It gets dismissed by people who, through other things that they say, make it clear that they don't seem to really know what the daily practice of medicine is like.

pianola isn't even sure how work is divvied up during residency. Someone else who has posted in this thread (don't remember who) posted that they wore open-toed shoes in the hospital, and said that it's ok to wear high heels while shadowing in an ICU.

Are these people who really ought to be dismissing someone's thoughts on their first-hand experience? Probably not....

 

[Anthony Hartsoc]

And an engineer after that and all kinds of things before and I assure you that there is no other job in the United States or Europe except medicine where, during your extensive training you are required to miss sleep and work 30 hours straight every fourth day. I pretty much did that for two years, some people do it for much longer.

First off, how someone deals with stress/sleep deprivation is very unique to the specific person (with the exception of some universal physical manifestations, but even then the extents of which are different). Also, I would say that being deployed throughout various areas of the Middle East, performing different military operations, and many times being the lead/sole medical provider (which essentially means no sleep for a long time) is much more stressful than any cushy hospital setting. Yep, in residency you might not get sleep that night, maybe had to stand all day, write some notes, admit a couple patients, log a little OR time, put in a couple lines, and move expeditiously...but really...it's not that bad...stop whining...Quote me

If you want to put things in perspective to deal with your stress think of it like this: If nobody is dying, it's not that important.

 

[maceo]

i dont think i can do this sh t for the next 30 yrs of my life.... f it!

Imma become a PhD.. not an MD...

I give up on this shi ty med field

now you are talking. Thats some serious wisdom you got. You have no idea how much wisdom you spewed.

 

[maceo]

Yes, the process of becoming a doctor is long and arduous, but it pays off in the end with satisfaction IF becoming a physician truly is what you want. If not, then it's just a long and arduous process that never gets better.

if you say so

 

[maceo]

Apparently, and although like most graduating residents I feel like a little bit of a fraud, I am considered a very good doctor by people who know me.

Let me say this again. Ten years ago there was nothing to compare to the wealth of information you aspiring doctors have at your fingertips today. Back then all you had was "House of God" and some crappy books at Barnes and Noble. Even on SDN there was a paucity of real information because nobody on it had been to that strange, incomprehensible country of American Medicine and returned to tell the spectacular tale.

And yet, like Marco Polo returning from Cathay, our strange-but-true stories of a bizarre and savage world are met with disbelief and our motives are questioned when we take the time to tell them to you. Believe us, don't believe us. But many of you are going to be surprised at how accurate the information you are being given will turn out to be.

well said. You and I prolly started med school around the same time. There was the barrons book, house of god, and a few other books. Nothing even close to what is available now. MOreover, the ability to network with fellow pre meds is also there as well.

At any rate, I like at the beginning where the author states, "medicine is bad for you". No truer words have been spoken. Brutal.

 

[maceo]

This is one of the most ridiculous comments I have seen. It's the fact that, you know, I actually CARE about the patient that I have in front of me (i.e. the child) that causes me so much frustration. It frustrates me that his mother can't be bothered to pay attention when I try to warn her that her 2 month old should always be sleeping on his back...and NOT his stomach. Maybe you, from your perch atop that high horse of yours, can see things differently, but I would say that trying to prevent a baby from needlessly dying of SIDS would qualify as "compassionate."

I am perfectly willing to admit that no, I don't have her particular lifestyle and that I haven't walked a mile in her exact shoes. But growing up in "the 'hood" is ABSOLUTELY NO EXCUSE for not doing your best to keep your children as healthy as possible. It angers and saddens me that I end up feeling like I care more about how the kid does than his own mother does.

Save your idiotic self-righteous drivel for when you've actually taken care of patients and have some idea of what I'm talking about.



<sigh> You probably will care. You might not care that some guy gets five STDs....but when he KEEPS coming back to you WITH THE SAME FIVE STDs, then yes, you'll care.

It's human to feel frustrated whenever you engage in a Sisyphen endeavor. It's naive to assume that you'll be any different.

Your thought processes have to go beyond "how can I get this guy fixed"? That's what they teach in medical school now - not just fixing problems, but also prevention. And prevention is the hard part to learn. If there was unlimited money, and you had unlimited time and energy, prevention would probably not be a big focus. But because there isn't unlimited money, prevention is what they teach....but prevention is the part that patients don't always "get."

And yes, you will absolutely care when a "frequent flyer" who refuses to take care of himself is your last patient, and is the reason why you end up leaving work 2 hours late, can't pick up your daughter from daycare, end up missing your son's piano recital, etc.... If you think you won't care, you are kidding yourself.



Are you kidding?

I don't know whether to be insulted or to laugh. What, you think I just coasted through college and still magically managed to get into med school? That I'd never worked an 80 hour week while in college?

I worked just as hard as you did, if not harder, in college. And yes, MS3 and MS4 were still HUGELY draining - like nothing I had to deal with in college.

First of all, the 80 hours only hold for when you are a resident. When you are an attending, you may have to work more than 80 hours.

Secondly, do you think that residents just leave work at hospital? No - the 80 hours does NOT cover the vast amounts of reading you need to do at home. Or the presentations you'll have to put together for grand conference, etc. Or all the paperwork that you will need to do. Or the time that you will put in sleeping to make up for all the nights you were on call.

great post. I like you. You are spot on on the plight of physicians. But more importantly thats a great word you used describing pointless activities. sisyphean from greek mythology.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

 

[WannaBePreMed]

http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/abinaz...go-to-medical-school-a-gleefully-biased-rant/

to be honest, i'm pretty depressed after reading this.

Well at least I'm in it for the right reason

 

[MadEvans]

Are you kidding?

I don't know whether to be insulted or to laugh. What, you think I just coasted through college and still magically managed to get into med school? That I'd never worked an 80 hour week while in college?

I worked just as hard as you did, if not harder, in college. And yes, MS3 and MS4 were still HUGELY draining - like nothing I had to deal with in college.

I don't doubt that you worked in college. However, a lot of pre-med students don't. My question you bolded wasn't meant to be treated as a sarcastic response, which I think that you construed it as.

And I know other MS3s and MS4s who have had different experiences than you. They are able to have relatively normal lives while doing their rotations.

Residency, I don't doubt, will be terrible.

 

[MadEvans]

Well at least I'm in it for the right reason

Me too.

 

[supergumbo]

It is pretty disconcerting to see the only ones dismissing the article are pre-meds who haven't actually got their feet wet. Especially for us who are in the class of 2013.

 

[MadEvans]

It is pretty disconcerting to see the only ones dismissing the article are pre-meds who haven't actually got their feet wet. Especially for us who are in the class of 2013.

In some other threads, that are all almost exactly the same, there are traces of optimism. GutShot is sometimes our only ally.

 

[chessknt]

I like medicine, for the most part. I think that the purpose behind it merits the amount of work and energy that you end up putting into it. And when you DO get to help someone, and play a role in saving their lives, or make their lives measurably better, that's a wonderful feeling.

That being said, it gets frustrating when people read that article (which, really, is very thought provoking and has a lot of excellent and accurate points) and dismiss it. It gets dismissed by people who, through other things that they say, make it clear that they don't seem to really know what the daily practice of medicine is like.

pianola isn't even sure how work is divvied up during residency. Someone else who has posted in this thread (don't remember who) posted that they wore open-toed shoes in the hospital, and said that it's ok to wear high heels while shadowing in an ICU.

Are these people who really ought to be dismissing someone's thoughts on their first-hand experience? Probably not....

I think it gets dismissed because its cynical to an extreme. Take his second point, "You will have difficulty sustaining a relationship and will probably break up with or divorce your current significant other during training." No offense to the author, but some stranger cannot presume to know how my relationship functions under stressful situations. This makes it seem like healthy relationships are outliers in the entire medical field when this is clearly not the case (I have yet to see a 99% divorce rate for doctors). He does this over and over again in the article, telling us how horrible, draining, and sacrificial it will be. It isnt a fair judgment of the training process.

 

[slight365]

In truth, no truer words have ever been spoken. Everyone has internal struggles the world over to differing degrees.

Also, everyone will always see the grass greener on the other side.

Non doctors who are not wealthy will see doctors as having it easy. Doctors will see 9-5 workers as having it easy. And so it goes. I don't think most people in this world will ever truly be completely satisified because there is always something we want that we can't have. It could be as simple as wanting to look a certain way to something more complex. There simply is no such thing as utopia.

Every point of that post is ****. I learned growing up that people in medicine tend to do a lot of lying about the field.

I believe part of it is to retain some "exclusivity" for themselves, and the other part is high expectations. These people would tell me how the pay is dropping, conditions worsening, etc. I consequently took another path before deciding to go back in. The truth was this family was making an incredible living in medicine. They simply lied a lot. I think their expectations were too high based on what they thought they were worth, not on the market value of their skills. There was only one physician in the family, and oddly enough, the rest of the family was even more outspoken against medicine than him. I eventually found out what he was making and I was shocked due to the fact that he was in a hospital and all he did was cry about it. Perhaps he overspent himself.

Having since noted that, I have seen more and more people doing the same thing, and trying as hard as possible to convince people to not go into medicine. How many of you guys put down on your personal statement that you wanted to help people? Isn't that what it's all about?

If you want to go into medicine, then do it. There's enough variability to make what you want out of it, but you simply have to be willing to adjust to get significant gains, such as moving elsewhere, or reshaping your life a bit. Physicians in the US don't know how they have it. I'd welcome any who bitch to go to Europe, where physicians make less than NY cab drivers and have longer hours and much poorer work conditions. Most of you wouldn't even be able to afford your car payments on the take-home of a European physician.

 

[slight365]

And forgot:

You will lose all the friends you had before medicine.

One loses friends all throughout their life, but also gains new ones as they change and grow. These friends may be more compatible at this point in life. This is not exclusive to medicine.

You will have difficulty sustaining a relationship and will
probably break up with or divorce your current significant other during
training.

Again, not exclusive to medicine. People come and go, people change, people aren't willing to hold out, separate goals, etc. Since when is dating and breaking up something exclusive to medicine? That's what it's all about. People may make mistakes with people 15 times before they get it right on the right person. BFD.

...and "probably" is too strong a word. I know many who have had relationships that continued from undergrad into marriage past residency, while some ran through med school into marriage. On top of that, big deal. People break up.

You will spend the best years of your life as a sleep-deprived, underpaid slave.

Look at my previous post. You're not a slave, you have free will and choices. If things are that bad, leave and do something else. An MD has significant freedom to move or change areas, such as going into instruction and/or research.

You will get yourself a job of dubious remuneration and high liability exposure.

Carefully worded statement because we all did the easy math translation on this. He played that well. High malpractice does suck, I'll give him that.

You will endanger your health and overall well-being.

So does just about everything. Being a tin-knocker, which it appears salaries in medicine are being compared to by him. How many would like to be a tin-knocker? Department of Highways? Sanitation? Transit? When in doubt, one can always leave medicine and become any of the above, or even join law enforcement and get an early retirement in 20 years.

Hell, even school required long hours, and not only for medicine. One will barely see an architecture student, for instance.

You will not have time to care for patients and treat them as well as you want to

Maybe, maybe not. It seems most of the rush is based solely on the physician looking to clear the halls as efficiently as possible, and not treat as thoroughly as possible. It's reasonable, as physicians tend to be problem solvers and want to solve that problem as quickly as possible.

You will start to dislike patients &#8212; and by extension, people in general.

That's every field, not just medicine. People in general suck, and this isn't exclusive to medicine.

You will start to be disliked by people who do not even know you.

Contrived, although people who don't know you can hate you even if you weren't a physician.

You
have only ever envisioned yourself as a doctor and can only derive
professional fulfillment in life by taking care of sick people.

Sure, I said it above. You'll never starve as a physician, and a physician has more control over their lives than this guy is making the readers believe. On top of that, again, he, along with most of the whiners, don't know how good they have it. Don't overspend, and life will be great. There's a thread floating around about how a woman is complaining about her rotations because they're 36 miles away. I commuted more than that daily to school.

 

[melanoleuca]

First off, how someone deals with stress/sleep deprivation is very unique to the specific person (with the exception of some universal physical manifestations, but even then the extents of which are different). Also, I would say that being deployed throughout various areas of the Middle East, performing different military operations, and many times being the lead/sole medical provider (which essentially means no sleep for a long time) is much more stressful than any cushy hospital setting. Yep, in residency you might not get sleep that night, maybe had to stand all day, write some notes, admit a couple patients, log a little OR time, put in a couple lines, and move expeditiously...but really...it's not that bad...stop whining...Quote me

If you want to put things in perspective to deal with your stress think of it like this: If nobody is dying, it's not that important.

Dude. You have no idea. "Write some notes, admit a couple of patients." Why, there's nothin' to it.

And you aren't even in medical school yet which is the irony of it all.

 

[WannaBePreMed]

In some other threads, that are all almost exactly the same, there are traces of optimism. GutShot is sometimes our only ally.

Your optimism is quite refreshing. I understand that life isn't all rainbows and sunshine. Medicine is a huge gamble and It's been difficult for me to accept that oh so frightening truth. But never the less I feel it's something that I have to embrace. You risk so much (huge debt, family time, youthful years, sleep, health) and all this for the golden chance of fulfillment and happiness. As far as I know I have one life to live and I intend to live it to the fullest. Randy Pausch once said, "You'll have many regrets on your death bed but none of them will be things you did, no matter how stupid or risky they were. You'd regret all the things you didn't do."

 

[smq123]

I think it gets dismissed because its cynical to an extreme.

See, now that's a fair argument. It feels like so many people dismiss it out of an "ostrich-burying-its-head-in-the-sand" mentality, and not for any rational reason.

That being said, what people don't seem to realize is that there IS a spectrum of people in medicine. Some people are happy with good, balanced lives. Others are miserable, and are at risk for impairment. (There are some frightening stories of anesthesiologists who accidentally overdose on the drugs that they use everyday.)

Now, maybe you'll be on the happier end of the spectrum. But there IS a good chance that you'll end up on the miserable, impaired side of the spectrum too. Too many pre-meds, when faced with this, claim that it "won't happen to them." That kind of thinking is naive in the extreme - you have to realize that there is a very good chance that you'll end up as one of those cynical, bitter, lonely physicians that you accused of being overly-pessimistic.

Maybe, maybe not. It seems most of the rush is based solely on the physician looking to clear the halls as efficiently as possible, and not treat as thoroughly as possible. It's reasonable, as physicians tend to be problem solvers and want to solve that problem as quickly as possible.

So sayeth the person who has no idea what they're talking about.

There is just never enough time in the day to get everything done. Sometimes you'll have 3-4 patients come in all at once...and they all want to be seen NOW, otherwise they'll walk out. Sometimes an "easy" patient ends up becoming very complicated.

And it's not a question of "clearing the halls" as efficiently as possible - if you want the doctor's office to stay in business, you have to see a certain number of patients a day. It's simple economics, and not something you can dismiss easily.

Plus, a lot of patients just can't afford the treatment that you KNOW they need to get - so you compromise and recommend something that's not nearly as good, but cheap.

 

[slight365]

So making the tough situations tougher on yourself psychologically is not knowing what I'm talking about?

US doctors really have no idea how good they have it. It's just the sense of entitlement and elitism pumped into them by themselves, fellow students, schools, society, and the idea they should get paid what these big CEOs are getting paid.

If it's so bad and the ER and you can't handle it, why not move into something else a little slower paced, insurance based, and a lot safer?

 

[smq123]

If it's so bad and the ER and you can't handle it, why not move into something else a little slower paced, insurance based, and a lot safer?

Who said anything about the ER?

This is the ER, this is outpatient clinics, this is on the inpatient floors in the hospital. In all of those settings, you're constantly being pushed for time.

And insurance issues are the same no matter where you are. Yeah, insurance problems are a big thing in the ER....but I've had patients in outpatient clinics say, "I didn't take that drug that you told me to take, because it costs #250 a week." And there are a lot of patients who leave the inpatient wards AMA because "my insurance isn't going to cover me past the 4th day" or something like that.

Insurance based practices aren't that much better....it's still a tremendous headache for both you and the patient.

 

[medhearter]

_______________________________________________________________

 

[clinicallabguy]

I've asked myself many times if I'm getting myself into something that is going to bite me in the butt later by going into medicine. But, I always come to the conclusion that it's still something that I want to do.

The thoughts that put my mind at ease were the same ideas that people are posting above. Medicine may be hard work, but you're not going to dodge that bullet by not going into medicine. It may be harder than many professions but many other professions would bore me, would not be rewarding, would make me irritable at home w/ my family, and I may end up going down this road later anyway because of hating the job I end up in.

Sure, some of my friends will have made lots of money, by the time I make my first paycheck as an attending, or even a resident. But, many of them will also have made their first career change, and may be going to school to do something else. They may have been laid off for the first time. Or maybe they will have made a bad financial decision and have to get a second job, or send their spouse to work.

This realization really hit me when a friend of mine that was an enlisted airman in the airforce was working over 80 hours a week. He maintained the airplanes, and the airforce had cut most of his team. He had been in trouble with his superior officer for turning off his phone after midnight, because he was getting calls everynight about his job. I felt for him, and realized that I'm going to go through similar things. But, medicine is not the only field where large sacrifice has to be made in order to succeed. That's true everywhere.

I agree that the sacrifice in medicine is greater than most, but it's what I have a passion for. I would do what it takes to succeed regardless of what field I loved, and this is the one I will pursue. No point looking back now.

 

[Gallix23]

Is there NO ONE happy in the entire field of medicine???

Yeah, like all I ever hear are the negatives online, but in real life every doctor/med student I've encountered have been really happy and living life to the fullest.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

*snort*

This happens all the time in medicine. Having a nurse treat you like shiot, with no intention of teaching you anything, and doing so just for to make herself feel better. That's like a rite of passage - one of the stupidest, most antiquated rites of passage imaginable.



Maybe yes, maybe no.

I am terrified that I'm going to become burned out as a physician, and even more worried that I'll become one of those "impaired physicians." I can feel it already - being a bit of a perfectionist, bottling emotions up "so I can deal with it later," etc. As much as I'd love to change that, it's been a huge uphill battle (for a number of reasons).

On peds, one of the things that I hate the most, that really gets my blood boiling, is when I'm struggling to finish up a visit...and the parent is sitting there texting on her phone.

Oh. My. God. That makes me so angry on so many levels. It takes up time away from the other patients (because these idiotic parents seem to expect their 7 month old to answer my questions ). It makes clinic run slower. And, above all, why in God's name should I, as a total stranger, care more about the well-being of their child than they do???

Or the parent who DEMANDS to be seen now because their kid has been wheezing for the past few days, and they just that they had only one albuterol treatment left. As much as I'd love to say that a lack of planning on their part does not equal an emergency on my part, I can't subject a poor, innocent 3 year old to my crankiness.

And this is just peds. The stories from the adult medicine side are even more frustrating.

It sometimes makes me not want to come to work. It gets really frustrating sometimes, trying to compensate for your patient's mistakes, and it drains you. After a while people just get on your nerves, sometimes.

OH no you are treated as a god. Get over yourself patients also have to wait all the time I know doctors that don't even really listen to their patients. Everyone thinks that they are king.

 

[Pedsbro]

I've asked myself many times if I'm getting myself into something that is going to bite me in the butt later by going into medicine. But, I always come to the conclusion that it's still something that I want to do.

The thoughts that put my mind at ease were the same ideas that people are posting above. Medicine may be hard work, but you're not going to dodge that bullet by not going into medicine. It may be harder than many professions but many other professions would bore me, would not be rewarding, would make me irritable at home w/ my family, and I may end up going down this road later anyway because of hating the job I end up in.

Sure, some of my friends will have made lots of money, by the time I make my first paycheck as an attending, or even a resident. But, many of them will also have made their first career change, and may be going to school to do something else. They may have been laid off for the first time. Or maybe they will have made a bad financial decision and have to get a second job, or send their spouse to work.

This realization really hit me when a friend of mine that was an enlisted airman in the airforce was working over 80 hours a week. He maintained the airplanes, and the airforce had cut most of his team. He had been in trouble with his superior officer for turning off his phone after midnight, because he was getting calls everynight about his job. I felt for him, and realized that I'm going to go through similar things. But, medicine is not the only field where large sacrifice has to be made in order to succeed. That's true everywhere.

I agree that the sacrifice in medicine is greater than most, but it's what I have a passion for. I would do what it takes to succeed regardless of what field I loved, and this is the one I will pursue. No point looking back now.

Well said!

 

[binko]

Oh, and I'm really nice to my wife. So that throws his "you can't maintain healthy relationships" deal out the window. How much busier could I be during med school/residency/working MD?

I was born when my dad was a resident. My parents are currently going strong after 26 years.

 

[smq123]

OH no you are treated as a god. Get over yourself patients also have to wait all the time I know doctors that don't even really listen to their patients. Everyone thinks that they are king.

WTF are you talking about? Did you even read what I posted? That has nothing to do with how long I have to wait. When clinic runs late, the parents of the patient can't get home in time to pick up their other child from daycare. When clinic runs too late, people end up leaving - sometimes forgetting that the child NEEDS to have his shots today.

Please, read it before you respond.

Double post, wished I knew where the damn delete button is!

There isn't one. If you want to be able delete a post, you have to donate to SDN first.

Believe me, when you're working the real job with very few freebee time (usually just spent sleeping or washing your working uniform), you probably won't have much time seraching for guys in bars.

They allow you to wash your own scrubs in Mexico? That's kind of nice, actually - at least you can control how clean you get them.

is it just me or is there something wrong with the "one reason to go into medicine"

No. As frustrating as the other parts of medicine are (the incessant paperwork, the debt, trying to figure out different insurance plans, etc.) being able to save someone's life, deliver a baby, watch people get better - that's still pretty cool.

The only question you need to ask yourself before starting med school is if its cool enough to you to justify all the emotional and physical difficulties of being a doctor. For a lot of people it is...but a lot of people it is not. I've had a number of classmates drop out because they decided it wasn't worth it to them.

But woe betide you if there’s anything else, anything at all, that would also give you that fulfillment. Because your pursuit of medicine would preclude chasing down that other dream and a whole lot more – a dream that could be much bigger, much more spectacular, much more enriching for yourself and humanity than being a physician.

That is absolutely true. Definitely something that all premeds need to think about.

 

[RySerr21]

We should all just join some network marketing pyramid like Cutco or ACN. I've heard they make billions without doing any real work.

hahhaha i used to work for cutco. I did it for a summer and i actualy made pretty decent money. Turns out im a pretty good salesman.

 

[medaholic]

The grass always appears to be greener on the other side.

A lot of the negatives of medicine is from reporting bias. Forums generally shifts more to the negative. Go into a hospital or clinic and ask around instead, and you'll see that there are a lot of docs who are very happy about their decision.

There are ones who hate their jobs and ones who love it. Also in regards to the OP, you could as easily make up a list of reasons why you should go into medicine.

At the end of the day, it's what your values and priorities are. And for a lot of people, they shouldn't do medicine, but there are also a lot of people fit to do it.

 

[slight365]

hahhaha i used to work for cutco. I did it for a summer and i actualy made pretty decent money. Turns out im a pretty good salesman.

Were their knives any good? I know part of the business model is to sell the knives to the salespeople and you supposedly get your money back at the end...

 

[Green Grass]

I haven't even read this thread, because it's the same damn thing we always get. If you aren't in this for the right reasons, medicine will suck. It's plain and simple. Damn I get sick of these threads.

 

[Slack3r]

Seems like more and more of these are popping up...

There will be those that take heed, weigh their options, re-evaluate their goals, and do some serious soul-searching if this is what they want to do.

Then, there will be those that instinctively shout "NU-UHHHH" while sticking their fingers in their ears in a childish tantrum.

But either way, it doesn't matter. Most of you will go through with it regardless, and some will be happy while others won't. Some will be pleasantly surprised and others will be the ones you're currently ignoring, blogging about the immense suck that is their medical education. Just remember, when looking back once it's all said and done, which side of the proverbial fence you were on. And remember, you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

[Green Grass]

Seems like more and more of these are popping up...

There will be those that take heed, weigh their options, re-evaluate their goals, and do some serious soul-searching if this is what they want to do.

Then, there will be those that instinctively shout "NU-UHHHH" while sticking their fingers in their ears in a childish tantrum.

But either way, it doesn't matter. Most of you will go through with it regardless, and some will be happy while others won't. Some will be pleasantly surprised and others will be the ones you're currently ignoring, blogging about the immense suck that is their medical education. Just remember, when looking back once it's all said and done, which side of the proverbial fence you were on. And remember, you have no one to blame but yourself.

Thank God we have a few people with some common sense around here. Well said.

 

[RySerr21]

Were their knives any good? I know part of the business model is to sell the knives to the salespeople and you supposedly get your money back at the end...

actually yea their knives are pretty legit. The best part is that i sold so much in my first week that i got a free set for my family that came with EVERYTHING....it was worth around a thousand bucks. Im not sure what your second sentence is referring to.

 

[slight365]

Part of the idea of Cutco is that the seller buys the demo knife set and the initial sales come from friends and family, and then that's it, and the seller usually keeps the knives. They've had to deal with multiple lawsuits and deceptive marketing investigations of their sole agent, Vector.

 

[jake2]

The blog makes good if already well discussed points, though I'm not sure about a couple of things. When I mention being a doctor, I seldom get prejudiced feeling. In fact, people are usually pretty positive. In my experience, people seem to still believe medicine is a cool and exciting field filled and that you actually help people. They also assume you're rich rather than a minimum wage slave. After people get to know me they don't like me, but not really before.

Not sure I've ever really come to dislike my patients or people in general either. My bosses, yes. Patients, not so much.

Most doctors I meet in the most "doctor-y" specialties are not very happy. By that I mean most surgeons, IM docs, OB/GYNs etc. I run into are usually pretty miserable. I'd say a rule I heard once that about 50% hate their jobs, 40% tolerate it, and 10% or so really love what they do holds true. I asked a friend of mine once who's an IM resident if he likes his job. His response seemed to be the general consensus I've run into. He said on days he's not on call or post-call, he doesn't hate it. That's about right.

In other specialties, generally the ROAD ones (radiology, anesthesiology, pathology, derm, rad onc, etc) the docs I run into are very happy with their lives. I'd say about 75% of people you run into in these fields are generally happy with their day-to-day lives.

 

[RySerr21]

Part of the idea of Cutco is that the seller buys the demo knife set and the initial sales come from friends and family, and then that's it, and the seller usually keeps the knives. They've had to deal with multiple lawsuits and deceptive marketing investigations of their sole agent, Vector.

oh yea i see what you are saying. You do need to buy the initial set which comes with a few of your products that you need for the demonstration. I think it was like a hundred bucks. It was also BS that I wasnt paid for training...and their weekly meetings were BS too and i never went and i was harassed like every day on the phone by one of the higher-ups. I figured they could b*tch all they want b/c i was making them a lot of money. Even tho i made a lot of money myself i would never recommend anyone to work there, haha. atho I was able to break out of the "family and friends" bubble and sell to people that I had never met before.

The blog makes good if already well discussed points, though I'm not sure about a couple of things. When I mention being a doctor, I seldom get prejudiced feeling. In fact, people are usually pretty positive. In my experience, people seem to still believe medicine is a cool and exciting field filled and that you actually help people. They also assume you're rich rather than a minimum wage slave. After people get to know me they don't like me, but not really before.

Not sure I've ever really come to dislike my patients or people in general either. My bosses, yes. Patients, not so much.

Most doctors I meet in the most "doctor-y" specialties are not very happy. By that I mean most surgeons, IM docs, OB/GYNs etc. I run into are usually pretty miserable. I'd say a rule I heard once that about 50% hate their jobs, 40% tolerate it, and 10% or so really love what they do holds true. I asked a friend of mine once who's an IM resident if he likes his job. His response seemed to be the general consensus I've run into. He said on days he's not on call or post-call, he doesn't hate it. That's about right.

In other specialties, generally the ROAD ones (radiology, anesthesiology, pathology, derm, rad onc, etc) the docs I run into are very happy with their lives. I'd say about 75% of people you run into in these fields are generally happy with their day-to-day lives.

what about the subspecialties of IM? Still generally "unhappy" or are you just referring to the ones that stay in general internal medicine...

 

[Nilf]

Not sure I've ever really come to dislike my patients or people in general either. My bosses, yes. Patients, not so much.

Most doctors I meet in the most "doctor-y" specialties are not very happy. By that I mean most surgeons, IM docs, OB/GYNs etc. I run into are usually pretty miserable. I'd say a rule I heard once that about 50% hate their jobs, 40% tolerate it, and 10% or so really love what they do holds true. I asked a friend of mine once who's an IM resident if he likes his job. His response seemed to be the general consensus I've run into. He said on days he's not on call or post-call, he doesn't hate it. That's about right.

In other specialties, generally the ROAD ones (radiology, anesthesiology, pathology, derm, rad onc, etc) the docs I run into are very happy with their lives. I'd say about 75% of people you run into in these fields are generally happy with their day-to-day lives.

Just to clarify, pathology is not considered ROAD, i.e. it's not competitive. The 'lifestyle' and 'workstyle' tends to be better than average though, although it varies widely.

Overall, I agree with your assessment, good analysis.