WildZenge Presents: Horizon Zero DaWWn

[cubsrule4e]

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So you asked someone who you were wolf leaning enough to vote yesterday a question, she dodged the question, I called her out on the dodge, and somehow, that makes you more sus of me than of her?

Maybe Im just observing how defensive you get over it? Where your vote goes next and how fast?

 

[cubsrule4e]

That an incredibly dumb move and I know shorty's smarter than that.

I'll never win with you, youll always consider my play/thoughts dumb, so I've kind of just given up on it. Maybe the reason I get wolf-read a lot is because I approach the game a lot of times in the context of "if I were a wolf, what could I potentially do here, how would it play out, etc." If thats incredibly dumb then Im sorry, but it is what it is.

 

[supershorty]

Maybe Im just observing how defensive you get over it? Where your vote goes next and how fast?

I don't know why you're assuming my vote is going to move.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'll never win with you, youll always consider my play/thoughts dumb, so I've kind of just given up on it. Maybe the reason I get wolf-read a lot is because I approach the game a lot of times in the context of "if I were a wolf, what could I potentially do here, how would it play out, etc." If thats incredibly dumb then Im sorry, but it is what it is.

I didn't say you were dumb. I said the move is would be dumb in the context of w/w. Maybe you can argue w/v, but there's no need to set yourself up to be more likely to lose by having fewer wolf numbers.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Why did you target me? If you're using it as a seer, wouldn't it make more sense to use it on wolfy people?

You also say you wouldn't be able to tell if a wolf's ability is wolfy, but how can you be sure what a village ability is then if you don't know how to differentiate?

Why would you assume this?

How would you know exactly the distinction between village and wolf abilities?

There is wolf only abilities, correct? Conversion, seer blocker types, and others. If I tried to steal that ability, I assume I would get a no action response. Or unable to steal. Thus, no info. So a wasted night. That was my logic. Makes sense to me.

If a role did come back as a wolf ability I think that would be too unfair but that is my opinion.

I’ll leave it at that bc if 100% truth and transparency doesn’t work, I don’t think anything else I can say will work

 

[supershorty]

There is wolf only abilities, correct? Conversion, seer blocker types, and others. If I tried to steal that ability, I assume I would get a no action response. Or unable to steal. Thus, no info. So a wasted night. That was my logic. Makes sense to me.

If a role did come back as a wolf ability I think that would be too unfair but that is my opinion.

I’ll leave it at that bc if 100% truth and transparency doesn’t work, I don’t think anything else I can say will work

There aren't generally wolf-only abilities, no. And conversion is usually a game mechanic, not an ability, I think.

 

[Crayola227]

Nevermind on AM/MsP packmates. MsP replies don't seem to favor that

Eh, I see nothing there to make them incompatible.

 

[Crayola227]

Now you got me wondering, bc her not doing these things is what she also did when she last wolfed.

Can anyone confirm? I can't recall TMEs AM stance from RvB

 

[Animal Midwife]

There is wolf only abilities, correct? Conversion, seer blocker types, and others. If I tried to steal that ability, I assume I would get a no action response. Or unable to steal. Thus, no info. So a wasted night. That was my logic. Makes sense to me.

If a role did come back as a wolf ability I think that would be too unfair but that is my opinion.

I’ll leave it at that bc if 100% truth and transparency doesn’t work, I don’t think anything else I can say will work

Conversion is typically a factional ability so I doubt you'd be able to detect that.

Seer, blocker, and almost every other ability can be any affiliation. In fact, only one ability is guaranteed village. Everything else is up for grabs. So no, there are not wolf-only abilities.

If you can't steal a wolf ability, your ability is OP. It's more powerful than an affiliation seer even because you'd know exactly what everyone has in addition to their affiliation.

 

[Crayola227]

I'm like 200 posts behind, which is fine. I have to do my gtt (glucose tolerance test) to screen for gestational diabetes and it takes like 2 hours sitting in the lab. So soon expect a flurry of hangry posts.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Can anyone confirm? I can't recall TMEs AM stance from RvB

Picked fights with her and then pulled a "omg i can admit my mistakes" approach to tunnel on April and Co lol

But I think Bob was talking about AM's last wolf outing? which I don't think I played in

 

[Crayola227]

Picked fights with her and then pulled a "omg i can admit my mistakes" approach to tunnel on April and Co lol

But I think Bob was talking about AM's last wolf outing? which I don't think I played in

Oh, that makes more sense.

Forgot to mention I'm operating without my morning tea since it's a fasting test.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

This whole genny discussion has me uncomfy but I stand by why I voted there before (still very little actual content despite making appearances)

I'm interested to see what happens if I increase the pressure a bit, both for her and the people discussing her

yeet genny

 

[Aprilthearab]

I have skimmed. I saw something about phrasing. Bob’s a smart guy despite the class clown act, and I don’t think he had any Freudian slips like that when he wolfed before. Unless I’ve skimmed over something else?

He has had multiple obvious Freudian slips and has been sussing people over little things that are quickly disproven

 

[supershorty]

I have skimmed. I saw something about phrasing. Bob’s a smart guy despite the class clown act, and I don’t think he had any Freudian slips like that when he wolfed before. Unless I’ve skimmed over something else?

He had several moments in Madagascar when he said similar things, but it was after you subbed out. But I've seen him say similar things as village as a reaction test.

His more recent posts read a little more like village!Bob to me.

 

[Aprilthearab]

I'm trying to figure out if Genny defending Bob is w/w or w/v. My gut says a packmate wouldn't defend a packmate that hard (especially Genny, knowing how she distanced herself from the rest of us when we were wolfing together and we were all getting sussed - very similar to what is happening right now) but the wifom is stopping me from being conclusive with that. If bob is actually being a really sketchy villager, which I still think isn't the case, then I could see Genny white knighting as a wolf. Or could be Bob is wolf and Genny is village but isn't caught up enough or picking up on enough to read him wolfy.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Maybe Im just observing how defensive you get over it? Where your vote goes next and how fast?

The way you address this as a question and a shrug really feels like this isn't actually the case and you're trying to make an excuse.

 

[cubsrule4e]

I don't know why you're assuming my vote is going to move.

Thats one of the things Im looking at. I wasnt trying to guess what youre going to do, just observing what you do.

 

[cubsrule4e]

The way you address this as a question and a shrug really feels like this isn't actually the case and you're trying to make an excuse.

Because some people call it a reaction test and its great when they do it. If I do it, its called out and questioned and then considered not useful, I guess.

 

[Aprilthearab]

There is wolf only abilities, correct? Conversion, seer blocker types, and others. If I tried to steal that ability, I assume I would get a no action response. Or unable to steal. Thus, no info. So a wasted night. That was my logic. Makes sense to me.

If a role did come back as a wolf ability I think that would be too unfair but that is my opinion.

I’ll leave it at that bc if 100% truth and transparency doesn’t work, I don’t think anything else I can say will work

I'm still not understanding how being unable to steal something makes it wolfy. I can't imagine any mechanics that would automatically work like that in a wolf-exclusive way. Blocks can come from anywhere, and could even have nothing to do with the person you're trying to steal from - someone totally unrelated could try to block you.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I'm still not understanding how being unable to steal something makes it wolfy. I can't imagine any mechanics that would automatically work like that in a wolf-exclusive way. Blocks can come from anywhere, and could even have nothing to do with the person you're trying to steal from - someone totally unrelated could try to block you.

That’s why I didn’t target most wolfy. I didn’t want a no result/no action bc I would get no information from it. Like you said, it could’ve been blocked or could’ve been wolf ability (but apparently you can steal all wolf abilities).

So I tried to target village leans to semi confirm they were village

 

[Aprilthearab]

That’s why I didn’t target most wolfy. I didn’t want a no result/no action bc I would get no information from it. Like you said, it could’ve been blocked or could’ve been wolf ability (but apparently you can steal all wolf abilities).

So I tried to target village leans to semi confirm they were village

I still don't think you're getting it

If you get blocked by someone, then they block your action regardless of who you target.

Stealing from someone wolfy does not impact your chances of getting blocked at all. You could target a villager and have the same exact chance of getting blocked compared to if you target a wolf.

If anything, the only thing that would increase your chances of being blocked is letting the whole thread know what your ability is.

Semi confirming villageness based on ability could be dangerous.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Picked fights with her and then pulled a "omg i can admit my mistakes" approach to tunnel on April and Co lol

But I think Bob was talking about AM's last wolf outing? which I don't think I played in

Who ya voting for?

 

[Aprilthearab]

What do other people think about Bob's ability claim? The ability itself obviously could be village or wolf, but I feel like a wolf pack would have explained to him how to use an ability like that before he came to talk about it on the thread

 

[Animal Midwife]

What do other people think about Bob's ability claim? The ability itself obviously could be village or wolf, but I feel like a wolf pack would have explained to him how to use an ability like that before he came to talk about it on the thread

It's NAI to me. I'd like to see him use the ability only on wolfy people going forward. Using it on villagey people is minimally useful to village, especially if stealing renders the ability unusable for a cycle.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

I'm trying to figure out if Genny defending Bob is w/w or w/v. My gut says a packmate wouldn't defend a packmate that hard (especially Genny, knowing how she distanced herself from the rest of us when we were wolfing together and we were all getting sussed - very similar to what is happening right now) but the wifom is stopping me from being conclusive with that. If bob is actually being a really sketchy villager, which I still think isn't the case, then I could see Genny white knighting as a wolf. Or could be Bob is wolf and Genny is village but isn't caught up enough or picking up on enough to read him wolfy.

I don't think the w/w is as much probable as w/v or v/w, especially since we have insight as to how genny normally handles w/w.

 

[Crayola227]

Is this a shorty/Sporty mixup? Because if it's not, I'm not really following what you're saying. And if it is - why was my asking Sporty for follow up on the one thing she'd commented on at that point weird?



Can you explain your thinking here a little more? How does self prezzing implicate Sporty "severely"?

See, seems SP might be the less confusing nickname!

 

[Zenge142]

Day 2 Confidence Is Quiet...You Are Not Vote Tally

sporty(1) - Bob
Bob (3) - Dina, April, pleasy
genny (2) - shorty, TME
cubs (1) - AM
shorty (1) - cubs

8/13 votes
Leading: @BobLoblaw78
Missing: Many
Deadline: 10pm EST (~6.5 hours)

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

What do other people think about Bob's ability claim? The ability itself obviously could be village or wolf, but I feel like a wolf pack would have explained to him how to use an ability like that before he came to talk about it on the thread

unless he didn't talk to them about doing it before he did

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

See, seems SP might be the less confusing nickname!

I am personally team sportsport because it doesn't mess up when i search "sport"

 

[Crayola227]

Yeah I think that's been well established

Are you wolf reading me for it? How about april?

Waffles are one thing, but waffling and sealing someone's yeet fate vs just waffling to someone means you're putting yourself out there to be evaluated the next day. It's something to be considered



What do you mean with with the bolded? Do you think they're w/w?

The thing is Bob was up for yeet when I moved off you to him, and if april was "baiting me off" it would give me indication that her and bob were w/w, and she didn't want him to be yeeted. However, I don't see them as compatible based on their earlier interactions. If she was a wolf she could've left me stay on bob, she could've stayed on Mel (or even waffled to someone else) and then not been caught up in the wafflefest on a now flipped villager, which has now made her look sus today.

Hopefully that makes sense



What do you mean by this?

Ok this reads like village Dina

 

[Aprilthearab]

It's NAI to me. I'd like to see him use the ability only on wolfy people going forward. Using it on villagey people is minimally useful to village, especially if stealing renders the ability unusable for a cycle.

Does that mean you'd rather him survive this cycle so he can get the chance to prove useful?

 

[Aprilthearab]

unless he didn't talk to them about doing it before he did

I'd like to think there would at least be some discussion about where it would be best utilized. The other option is he chose villagey targets because he's a wolf and has to come up with a justification to the rest of the thread about why he chose those targets, but I don't see why he would do that when he hadn't even successfully targeted anyone yet...

 

[Animal Midwife]

Does that mean you'd rather him survive this cycle so he can get the chance to prove useful?

That's where I'm leaning, as I do with most seering claims. We still have hours to discuss however.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I'd like to think there would at least be some discussion about where it would be best utilized. The other option is he chose villagey targets because he's a wolf and has to come up with a justification to the rest of the thread about why he chose those targets, but I don't see why he would do that when he hadn't even successfully targeted anyone yet...

I mean, it's always best to have some targets revealed regardless of successfulness or you're just openly wolfclaiming. It's why Sporty still said those things despite never using her ability.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Hmm

Unyeet Bob
Yeet Genny

I'd like to see what happens with more pressure on my other bad feel

 

[SportPonies]

and we're forwards.

pbpa coming up before I go to a wake.

 

[Aprilthearab]

I mean, it's always best to have some targets revealed regardless of successfulness or you're just openly wolfclaiming. It's why Sporty still said those things despite never using her ability.

Right, but if he was a wolf, he could have easily lied about who he wanted to target so that it looks less wolfy of him

 

[SportPonies]

Everyone knows im basically worthless the first 2 cycles, so I dont have a lot to go on as usual for a D1 vote, but Genny feels in general the most off to me, having reread some of yesterdays interactions. I jokingly make the post about finding loopholes, but that seems to have been the only actual serious/non-fluff post she made all day. In another words, I guess joking:serious post ratio is off, as is my read of her probably, but no one else is sticking out at me. I also have nothing to go off of today since she's been busy, but theres still 3 hours left to change.

vote genny

I'm quoting this for future reference because it feels a little defeatist for a village!cubs, but things have changed since the golden days of early cubs play.

I'm starting to get a wolfy read on Cubs. And it's not just the standard Cubs paranoia, because my paranoia was at an 11 last game and I still didn't misyeet him at end game and wrongfully suspect him. Not saying that makes me an expert reading him, just saying I don't think I'm especially prone to sus him just based on others sussing him. Feel like I'm coming to this conclusion and it's not just an echo of others' sus (which in general is something I can fall prey to).

Anyway your post here makes a good point on cubs, and his SP logic is weird to me too.

Cray has definitely felt like she's clinging to others' reads and emphasizing them as much as she can when it can help her cast shade. I guess that's the big thing I was reading with my feels D1. It's funny to quote this since she says in it that she's not echoing others, but really it feels like she's cherry-picking a few players and then quoting anyone who says "hmm" to a post by them and goes, "yeah!! see!!! they're totally sketch!!"

 

[SportPonies]

fwiw I'm on page 6 but didn't feel genny was wolfy so far. Those EOD shenanigans with Bob are making me rethink my village lean on him but I'm not sure I'm ready to go there yet either. idk who else is on the board though. No need to tell me. I'll get there eventually.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Right, but if he was a wolf, he could have easily lied about who he wanted to target so that it looks less wolfy of him

The reasoning still has to line up regardless. If he says he's targeting village people, he best mention a village read then.

 

[supershorty]

What do other people think about Bob's ability claim? The ability itself obviously could be village or wolf, but I feel like a wolf pack would have explained to him how to use an ability like that before he came to talk about it on the thread

I think it's NAI, but the fact that he claimed so early is reminding me of when village!Zenge claimed very early in GGoats when he was getting misyeeted - to maximize the discussion time. He's only 1 vote ahead right now, so I don't really see the urgency that prompted him to claim now, but he did mention he'd be busy later so that could have factored in.

 

[Zenge142]

Day 2 Confidence Is Quiet...You Are Not Vote Tally

sporty(1) - Bob
Bob (2) - Dina, pleasy
genny (3) - shorty, TME, April
cubs (1) - AM
shorty (1) - cubs

8/13 votes
Leading: @genny
Missing: Many
Deadline: 10pm EST (~6.5 hours)

 

[Crayola227]

I'm quoting this for future reference because it feels a little defeatist for a village!cubs, but things have changed since the golden days of early cubs play.

Cray has definitely felt like she's clinging to others' reads and emphasizing them as much as she can when it can help her cast shade. I guess that's the big thing I was reading with my feels D1. It's funny to quote this since she says in it that she's not echoing others, but really it feels like she's cherry-picking a few players and then quoting anyone who says "hmm" to a post by them and goes, "yeah!! see!!! they're totally sketch!!"

Lol how does this little theory of yours work now that I've revised my read of Dina to more village?

I also haven't synthesized much since I'm doing catch up PbPa, typically it isn't until I'm through that I'll give my own summary thoughts, and is often where I give more original insights.

Fine if it's echo-y crap play as far as anyone is concerned, but there's nothing out of the ordinary for me.

 

[Aprilthearab]

The reasoning still has to line up regardless. If he says he's targeting village people, he best mention a village read then.

But with a totally blank slate before he revealed, wolfy bob could have easily said "I'm stealing abilities from wolfy people such as my wolf reads x and y to help wolf hunt and to prevent them from doing bad things" instead of "I'm stealing abilities from villagey people such as my village reads b and c so I can confirm them as village reads"

 

[Animal Midwife]

But with a totally blank slate before he revealed, wolfy bob could have easily said "I'm stealing abilities from wolfy people such as my wolf reads x and y to help wolf hunt and to prevent them from doing bad things" instead of "I'm stealing abilities from villagey people such as my village reads b and c so I can confirm them as village reads"

Actions are worth a thousand words. I don't take any stock in what people will say they'll do until they do it.

So regardless of what he gave for a reason, it doesn't affect my read until I see how he truly uses it.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Day 2 Confidence Is Quiet...You Are Not Vote Tally

sporty(1) - Bob
Bob (2) - Dina, April, pleasy
genny (3) - shorty, TME, April
cubs (1) - AM
shorty (1) - cubs

8/13 votes
Leading: @genny
Missing: Many
Deadline: 10pm EST (~6.5 hours)

Does my vote count twice?

 

[SportPonies]

I agree on Alley feeling weird. I checked the posts that you referenced, and I think the posts that stood out to me were a little different but I get the same vibe you did. Not sure if I feel confident enough on that to yeet her for it since I think D1 alley tends to be sketchy and I'm not sure where that line can be drawn so early in the game

This was like 7 PM central. Those feels sure did change quickly.

TL;DR: Your reads boil down to feels, some eh reasoning for alley and please, and targetting low-posters in a game that had only 3 pages until today.

Now who's doing something without really doing something?

I had the same initial thought about TME's Msp quote post but it was a very conspicuous post. It was highly likely someone would pressure TME for follow up on it, so if TME is a wolf then he would have to actually have a read prepared to keep up the charade. It would have been much easier to just post his follow up read and remain off of people's radar.

You know whats a good way to get village cred as a wolf? Push an obvious line of questioning before anyone else can.

This feels like a village Mel quote.

Also I guess I've read these pages before. Idk why I thought I was on page 6. Maybe I just hadn't done my pbpa yet and happened to read these during the end of the cycle.

 

[cubsrule4e]

I'm quoting this for future reference because it feels a little defeatist for a village!cubs, but things have changed since the golden days of early cubs play.

?????

But since no one seems to be questioning shorty I'll go back here and see where people yet to vote stand on the issue.

unvote shorty
vote genny

 

[SportPonies]

Lol how does this little theory of yours work now that I've revised my read of Dina to more village?

I also haven't synthesized much since I'm doing catch up PbPa, typically it isn't until I'm through that I'll give my own summary thoughts, and is often where I give more original insights.

Fine if it's echo-y crap play as far as anyone is concerned, but there's nothing out of the ordinary for me.

As for the bolded, it's irrelevant because I'm also doing pbp...

I'm just commenting on what I'm seeing from you. Usually your play "makes sense" to me even if our reads and opinions don't align, but that's not what I've felt this game so far. Just feels like you're picking at loose threads when you see them.