WildZenge Presents: Horizon Zero DaWWn

[Crayola227]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

But it's not, because then Cray wouldn't be able to block her tonight and then we'd be stuck with the WIFOM of AM's night results tomorrow

I'm really trying to figure out if there's some way things go down with investigation overnight that helps us to avoid WIFOM of AM vs whoever else tomorrow, and not really seeing it.

AM and Lawpy are both viable from a lot of perspectives (mechanics, VCA, etc), but obviously if you want to go insane you could argue that myself, April, and Cubs, despite mechanics claims, VCA, etc, could be wolves.

I doubt a wolfy tinkerer would be the source of such items as we've seen. I doubt the wolves are not the tinkerer and yet able to claim the tinkerer stuff, unless the mods are the item source and the wolves somehow get informed of the circulation of items, but that's totally bonkers.

If I'm really playing Devil's Advocate, you could argue for myself or Cubs' ability to be wolfy if you try hard and believe in yourself.

Once you add in VCA and interactions though, it starts to seem pretty farfetched I think.

I don't know what's going on in PMs, I only had PMs with Mel, and I sure af didn't tell him squat, he did the pocketing thing and made a PR claim I didn't believe was the whole story.

I get why Lawpy is saying he is worried about a deep wolf, although I'm wondering how it is that he's cleared AM. Assuming he doesn't have her in his POE?

 

[Aprilthearab]

Holy crap guys I started catching up like an hour ago with less than a page to catch up on and now I'm two pages behind what is happening

 

[Aprilthearab]

See, that makes me want to give AM a chance to use it.

Me too, but then it's so WIFOMy about if we should believe her or not since she'll be a prime suspect tomorrow

 

[Crayola227]

I didn't remember you saying anything about an item. I'm looking for wolves, not tracking ambiguous night actions.

No, I clearly mentioned an item in my posts more than once. Not like you to miss an UNAMBIGUOUS claim like that.

But it was also in the same post that I said that the mods told me the cubs disabling only affected my PR, not ability to use an item. Now, that answer doesn't necessarily apply to the question of a wolf's factional night kill, and the way I asked the question "Will this disabling only affect my PR or will it also keep me from using this item?" leading to the answer "only your PR" doesn't necessarily mean it only affects a PR and not the wolf kill.

Anyway this all seems relevant enough I find it odd you glossed over it.

 

[supershorty]

Me too, but then it's so WIFOMy about if we should believe her or not since she'll be a prime suspect tomorrow

Spoiler

 

[Animal Midwife]

Do you guys need me to quote again why, even if there was WIFOM, me living to tomorroq would be the simplest WIFOM out there? It's less complex than blocking Lawpy on a no kill night even.

 

[Crayola227]

To be fair it sounded like she assumed the item was in general circulation and got passed from one person to the next and I had already gotten the item previously and thus knew what it was. And I'm not certain if you ever specifically said you used an item, just that you were acted on

this does make sense

 

[Animal Midwife]

No, I clearly mentioned an item in my posts more than once. Not like you to miss an UNAMBIGUOUS claim like that.

But it was also in the same post that I said that the mods told me the cubs disabling only affected my PR, not ability to use an item. Now, that answer doesn't necessarily apply to the question of a wolf's factional night kill, and the way I asked the question "Will this disabling only affect my PR or will it also keep me from using this item?" leading to the answer "only your PR" doesn't necessarily mean it only affects a PR and not the wolf kill.

Anyway this all seems relevant enough I find it odd you glossed over it.

Where? I did not see it because I wasn't looking for it.

Additionally, ever single time you have said this, you have been wrong. I don't search for claims in role madness unless it's a thunderdome and never will.

 

[Crayola227]

Yeah. I'll talk about the interactions in another post because I need to dig for a particular post (AM quoted it earlier so it shouldn't take me too long). The VCA is kind of concerning. MsLawpy hasn't ended a single day on a wolf - they voted Sporty 3 days in a row and then TME. It's the only slot in the game that has only voted for now confirmed villagers.

AM also hasn't voted for any flipped wolves, but one of her votes hasn't flipped yet. Although I don't think that person is a wolf.

which person is that?

 

[Aprilthearab]

If you yeet Lawpy tomorrow and he's village, you realize the game will be lost, right?

But what if it ends by yeeting you today?

 

[Aprilthearab]

There are only 2 people still alive who haven't ended any day on a wolf, and I was strongly village reading one of them and starting to village lean the other, but I feel really stuck right now.

Who are those two people?

 

[Crayola227]

It seems that it's been clarified since I posted that that it's unlikely it would

I don't want to steer us wrong in being too definitive on that, but I'm just saying there is evidence that cubs doesn't make you totally a limp dick and completely unable to move the next day... and wolf factional kills, especially when wolves have PRs (and most in the game have), often don't get treated like a PR... but sometimes they do. Hard to say. But yeah love to sum it up as "Cubs doesn't make you totally limp... whatever that means."

 

[Animal Midwife]

But what if it ends by yeeting you today?

The village's win chances might, as I laid out before. There's zero reason you can't yeet me tomorrow with the same effect. It's impossible to lose to me tomorrow, but it's very possible to lose with me today.

If more people than just Lawpy and Cray could comment on that original post, I'd feel we were actually getting somewhere.

 

[supershorty]

Who are those two people?

Lawpy and AM.

which person is that?

cubs

Edit: sorry I wrote April, I was looking at her post while I was typing.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Yeah. I'll talk about the interactions in another post because I need to dig for a particular post (AM quoted it earlier so it shouldn't take me too long). The VCA is kind of concerning. MsLawpy hasn't ended a single day on a wolf - they voted Sporty 3 days in a row and then TME. It's the only slot in the game that has only voted for now confirmed villagers.

AM also hasn't voted for any flipped wolves, but one of her votes hasn't flipped yet. Although I don't think that person is a wolf.

This is concerning for AM, less so for MsLawpy

 

[Aprilthearab]

Unyeet Lawpy
Yeet AM

Makes more sense for strategy than Lawpy does

 

[Animal Midwife]

Lawpy, please be careful with them.

 

[cubsrule4e]

@cubsrule4e does your role description give much info about the extent it disables someone? Does it make them completely useless for a night? Or does it specifically say night ability, or something else?

It says they will be unable to ACT the following night.

 

[cubsrule4e]

I think I replied saying it might not work, but I'm thinking some more.

Why wouldn’t this work?

I agree with your point that if AM is the wolf leaving her alive just complicates things. Her claim could be made up and she could then easily just point the finger most likely at me or you and then village has to decide if they believe her or not. I mean a block is the easiest most likely explanation for the no kill.

 

[cubsrule4e]

I think I replied saying it might not work, but I'm thinking some more.

We’d also be wasting a good village PR. If AM IS Yeeted village and lawpy is blocked, even if he isn’t the wolf, but the wolf defides to no kill, that buys village another cycle I think.

 

[supershorty]

Ah, now the forum's eating my posts after I spent a chunk of time looking for a particular quote. Wonderful.

 

[cubsrule4e]

But what if it ends by yeeting you today?

And in true non-bussing fashion, she couldn’t put her vote on Mel yesterday.

 

[supershorty]

Trying again.

Are you alive? What is your sporty read? How are you reading April?

I'm also feeling like could have Mel perspective slipped the slot as unaligned with him.

@Animal Midwife, I don't think I'm correctly understanding what a perspective slip is. Can you explain how this slips the MsLawpy slot as unaligned with Mel?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Trying again.



@Animal Midwife, I don't think I'm correctly understanding what a perspective slip is. Can you explain how this slips the MsLawpy slot as unaligned with Mel?

He was shading MsP for not posting near EOD. Lawpy already subbed in for her hours earlier.

 

[Aprilthearab]

And in true non-bussing fashion, she couldn’t put her vote on Mel yesterday.

Yeah I thought that was weird even before we got into today's craziness

 

[supershorty]

He was shading MsP for not posting near EOD. Lawpy already subbed in for her hours earlier.

Do you think that could be a distancing attempt? It's not like he voted her at any point or tried to get others to.

 

[cubsrule4e]

AM, why didn’t you use your friend finder or whatever earlier on? You’re often a mid-game NK Target. Why not use it on April or mel for the two entire cycles they were going back and forth?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Do you think that could be a distancing attempt? It's not like he voted her at any point or tried to get others to.

I do not.

 

[Animal Midwife]

AM, why didn’t you use your friend finder or whatever earlier on? You’re often a mid-game NK Target. Why not use it on April or mel for the two entire cycles they were going back and forth?

cubs, what night did I get the friend finder?

 

[supershorty]

AM, why didn’t you use your friend finder or whatever earlier on? You’re often a mid-game NK Target. Why not use it on April or mel for the two entire cycles they were going back and forth?

I thought she just got it last night?

 

[Aprilthearab]

AM, why didn’t you use your friend finder or whatever earlier on? You’re often a mid-game NK Target. Why not use it on April or mel for the two entire cycles they were going back and forth?

She only received it last night and can't use it until the following night

 

[Aprilthearab]

I do not.

Then who do you think is the last wolf?

 

[Animal Midwife]

Then who do you think is the last wolf?

One of Cray and cubs. I'd know exactly which one if I actually got to use my item.

 

[supershorty]

I still feel like I want to give AM a chance to use the friend finder. Maybe I just don't want to believe that my read of her was that wrong, but we're not in MYLO today, so I'm leaning toward not voting there.

 

[cubsrule4e]

cubs, what night did I get the friend finder?

I thought she just got it last night?

Missed that. Reading while driving home, dont tell anyone. I still think the point stands though that the blocking ability is more mechanically clearing.

And unless there’s some strongarm involved, the block will always come first in Order of operations.

 

[supershorty]

Missed that. Reading while driving home, dont tell anyone. I still think the point stands though that the blocking ability is more mechanically clearing.

And unless there’s some strongarm involved, the block will always come first in Order of operations.

cubbie, don't WW and drive pls

 

[cubsrule4e]

So the friend finder was an item given to AM? Sorry I missed this whole thing somewhere?

 

[cubsrule4e]

Just at stop lights. Home now and can go find the item discussion.

 

[Lawpy]

Guys, can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep this 36/12? I'm dead serious. Let's not blow late game just because 36/12 takes too long. There is a lot to discuss and i have hundreds of notifications to respond to

I'm extremely disappointed no yeet is not an option but we need time to discuss

 

[Aprilthearab]

I still feel like I want to give AM a chance to use the friend finder. Maybe I just don't want to believe that my read of her was that wrong, but we're not in MYLO today, so I'm leaning toward not voting there.

Yes but tomorrow will possibly be game-losing depending on who we pick and considering I don't trust her right now, I won't be able to trust her claimed night results either. And then we'll be in even more of a panic trying to WIFOM our way out of AM vs someone else.

 

[cubsrule4e]

Guys, can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE keep this 36/12? I'm dead serious. Let's not blow late game just because 36/12 takes too long. There is a lot to discuss and i have hundreds of notifications to respond to

I'm extremely disappointed no yeet is not an option but we need time to discuss

Did you PM anyone last night?

AM, why didnt you talk to Lawpy?

 

[Lawpy]

Did you PM anyone last night?

AM, why didnt you talk to Lawpy?

No i did not

 

[cubsrule4e]

One of Cray and cubs. I'd know exactly which one if I actually got to use my item.

Lol. See guys? This is what Im talking about.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Did you PM anyone last night?

AM, why didnt you talk to Lawpy?

Because I hate PMs with a deathly passion.

 

[cubsrule4e]

unvote lawpy
vote AM

Cray agrees to block LAwper?

 

[cubsrule4e]

I still feel like I want to give AM a chance to use the friend finder. Maybe I just don't want to believe that my read of her was that wrong, but we're not in MYLO today, so I'm leaning toward not voting there.

Do you feel like your village read of me is greater than AM's?

If AM "Seered" me tonight and came back and said I was a wolf, do you think that would significantly alter your thoughts, just based on that alone?

Apply same questions to Cray.

If the answers are "Yes" and "no" AM is probably best to yeet before Lawpy.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Grabbed the first half of some Mel/AM interactions/mentions I could find, I'm too impatient and busy to do them all

tl/dr: Mel never puts pressure on AM, indirectly defended her in places, and some of their interactions do get "loud" but never accusatory which feels a lot like faked w/w interactions. There are a few jokey interactions that make them feel close but that could be NAI given their playing history rather than outside-of-thread communication. And let's not forget AM never actually put her vote on Mel despite claiming he was the wolfiest in her POE.

Post 2

Never really got a vibe from AM not pressure voting me. Why would she? I haven't played in a while. Her not pressure voting me didn't give me weird feels. Her reason for not doing so was a bit meh. She doesn't usually reach the "well she's gonna die from low posting anyways" stage until about day 2.

This post irritates me. "AM doesn't ping me" but still throws sketch her way.

Dina
Cray
Cubs
Shorty
AM
POE starts here
Sporty
TME
MsP
April

AM - most recent wolf!AM just picked a fight with chaos and solo tunneled him to death from early game. And it straight up felt like a fake tunnel. Less tunneling this game, has questioned a range of people, I think she's wrong about Cubs, but we often disagree as v/v with differing degrees of who turns out to be right.

Oh geeze.

It's taking everything in me to not policy vote that sub based on the timing and thread state.

Really?

I'm still less worried about that slot than I am April because I actually have things to evaluate with april but yeah, MS had a plethora of people scumsubbing when they get pressed. Its a gut reaction. But also

There is very little MsP-April interactions beyond April saying its hard to read MsP because of activity and MsP giving a luke-warm village read on April. I'm now comfortable with a April/MsP/Genny pack.

*Yes AM I see what you're about to say. That was like the once in a random while RWWR happened.

I wouldn't even call that rwwr. That was pure blind luck that would had been a misyeet had it occurred even a cycle earlier. Pure Russian Roulette.

But also @Melchizedek I know you're self-prezzing, but I can barely hear you saying anything about this Sporty revelation.

Are expecting me to wolf/village read
based on an ABILITY?

I'm not going to comment on the ability itself, but I see the Village reasoning for picking the least painful of it all. I don't like how April is pushing it as sketchy now that people are talking about flipping her again.

I'm asking why you're sitting here if you don't believe in it.

Because I wasn't about to move from my self-prez unless we could consolidate on April. I'm not moving a self-prez with how finnicky vote spread has been this game.

Yeah, but in the past, even when self-prezzing, I've seen you try to strongarm people onto your candidate/dismantle what you perceive as a misyeet all the while.

I literally spent all day today making my point AM. I spent a good amount of time yesterday too. I made an analysis post long enough it needed to be put into two different blocks. Everyone is talking about voting April. Cray and Shorty even said I made good points. I don't know where all the resistance to actually voting April is coming from. I know when the mel paranoia has set in and there's not much else I can do.

Like who?



Say it AM

Like your mom.

 

[Aprilthearab]

Those interactions happened to catch a couple Mel/MsLawpy interactions too and they felt much more incriminating than the Mel/AM interactions so that also makes me lean away from Mel/Lawpy w/w

 

[Lawpy]

I'm willing to consider the bussing issue, and I have tried. But it's hard for me to put aside the results last night to vote someone who was early on a wolf or has other mechanics in their favor.

Why are you, a claimed investigative role, a better yeet than AM?

Also, does it make sense for AM to ability or role reveal at this point?

Because AM is generally more trusted than me. People did believe in my redirection points before so i thought they trusted my night actions but somehow that got discredited suddenly today, so even if i survive and report my night actions, i don't know if people will buy that. I strongly believe a watcher is an important role to keep alive especially now with the wolf redirector dead. But in the end, i don't know if people will believe me in mylo and we'll end up in a dangerous game losing state

I'd suggest ability reveal

 

[Aprilthearab]

Because I hate PMs with a deathly passion.

That's interesting because I know you did PM someone else

Edit to clarify: Not specifically last night, just in general