WWedding at the End of the WWorld: Game Thread

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Crayola227 said:
I would argue my vote on Sloth is not opportunistic at all. I really think she's a wolf, and when she flips wolf it will be obvious it wasn't opportunistic.

I do like you around frand, and I don't want to be paranoid of you but the Please defense is sketch. I'm going Sloth first, and how you respond/react, like if you join and she flips wolf as I think she will, you'll be clear.
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I was saying in the world that youre a wolf, it was an easy opportunistic vote. Im already on sloth. So if sloth flips village that makes me consider that your vote could have been a late wolf vote trying to find an easy spot to hide. If sloth flips wolf I think we're on the same page.
 
alleycat03 said:
Cray’s content has made me feel better about her, and I feel semi-good about her at this point. I was voting for her before she posted a ton and now that she’s posted I’m following what she’s saying and agreeing with her posts.

I kind of talked about barks earlier but she’s doing the thing where I know she’s playing but I keep forgetting that she’s here. It’s exactly what happened during the emojis game with the wolf sweep. I’m pretty sure I became suspicious of her right before endgame and ended up being right
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Had early sus on Alley, and I think I quoted her where it looked like maybe Please defense? But otherwise more recently she sounds/feels village to me
 
Crayola227 said:
Wait, how can I be bussing if I Sloth hasn't flipped wolf yet? I wasn't on Please.

Unless you mean that my expressed sus on Please was...
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Riding a partner without intent of moving or otherwise letting up on suspicion is bussing even if a different wolf flips instead.
 
Dinashadow said:
When have I ever done something like this as a wolf?



This is not aligned with my wolf meta at all and it's a moot point because I never would've voted for please/shaded her to begin with if I was her packmate
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Yeah the Cubs attack on Dina not looking good.

Also wondering who would have really wanted Zenge out of the picture, wouldn't that make sense for Cubs?

Zenge wasn't sussing me, so unless you think he was majorly sussing one of my packmates (in the theory world where I am wolf) or there was STRONG reason to suspect he had a powerful PR, I wouldn't have killed him this early in game. I still feel bad about being a dick to him and to Shorty in past games. I will always put strategy before friendship in WW, but without a compelling reason I will not pull dick moves just cuz. Even not having tons of time to be caught up on thread, I always keep up with pack chat and go to bed late so I always see what actions submitted. Unless you want to say I forgot he kept dying early.

Whatever, point is, from my reading I was having a hard time figuring out who might have wanted Zenge dead or why, but I think it might make sense for Cubs.
 
supershorty said:
Unofficial D2 creative title here tally

Mel (1) - alley
Spooky ghost (1) - Mel
Sloth (2) - genny, cubs
cubs (1) - Dina

4/12 voting
Missing: people whose names aren't on the list already and one person who is on the list, but hasn't placed an actual vote.

Vote closes tomorrow at 9pm CST (bolded scary hours left here).
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Wtf is Mel doing with his vote?
 
Barkley13 said:
I’ve been pondering the please situation. On the surface it looks sketchy that he was defending please so much and that she randomly put him in her village reads based on weak reasons. But the other part is wondering if that’s too sketchy to be an actual wolf and was just misguided villager. I haven’t had a chance to go back to look at yesterday yet so I’m hoping that may help clear things up
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To be fair to Cubs, Please was not very popular with village at the time so it makes total sense that she might put the one voice/vote in her favor on the village side. Could be a form of w/v buddying and not w/w.
 
Crayola227 said:
Yeah the Cubs attack on Dina not looking good.

Also wondering who would have really wanted Zenge out of the picture, wouldn't that make sense for Cubs?

Zenge wasn't sussing me, so unless you think he was majorly sussing one of my packmates (in the theory world where I am wolf) or there was STRONG reason to suspect he had a powerful PR, I wouldn't have killed him this early in game. I still feel bad about being a dick to him and to Shorty in past games. I will always put strategy before friendship in WW, but without a compelling reason I will not pull dick moves just cuz. Even not having tons of time to be caught up on thread, I always keep up with pack chat and go to bed late so I always see what actions submitted. Unless you want to say I forgot he kept dying early.

Whatever, point is, from my reading I was having a hard time figuring out who might have wanted Zenge dead or why, but I think it might make sense for Cubs.
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Why would it make sense for me strategically? I dont recall him coming after me at all.

Also, for what its worth, I wouldnt (and didnt) kill him N1, especially after he rando died early in the game I just modded. I may be a dick, and sometimes im a wolf, but im not a dick!wolf.
 
alleycat03 said:
I was liking more of Mel's content, but now he is openly saying he will sheep AM or shorty when he literally accused me of the same thing and voted for me over it. Do not like
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Lol if you think sheeping thread consensus is the same thing as sheeping two pretty much lockclear players, you’re ridiculous.
 
cubsrule4e said:
Why would it make sense for me strategically? I dont recall him coming after me at all.

Also, for what its worth, I wouldnt (and didnt) kill him N1, especially after he rando died early in the game I just modded. I may be a dick, and sometimes im a wolf, but im not a dick!wolf.
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You can argue whether you would kill Zenge strategically, but I seem to recall you being part of pack that agreed to block a player who was excited about their role every night + killing someone who was modding a noob game very early. So not quite "wouldn't".
 
I'm getting pulled away for dinner and only made it partway through my catchup and I'll update when I fully finish, but this is where I'm at right now:

Village pile is shorty, AM, bread, alley, dina
My neutrals/undecideds that I need to really focus on while I finish reading are - genny, mel, barks, cray
Wolf leans is cubs, sloth

Going to start with yeet cubs to get a vote on the board for now
 
supershorty said:
I want to look at Cray and genny's posts today, so starting off with Cray.

tl;dr:
- Cray's super busy and not checking in the way she has in the past (though her activity has been lower like this in several recent games), and that makes her more difficult to evaluate.
- That being said, I feel like there are tonal shifts in how she's peppering sus around that make me a little bit concerned. When she has been around, I wouldn't say she's been actively wolf hunting much at all. She's thrown little sus things around here and there, almost like she's testing to see what will stick, but it's not in the way that I'm used to seeing her (where it just feels like paranoia). The main difference to me is that when she's village, she does eventually push on someone pretty hard - she doesn't ONLY do the "everyone is sus" thing that I'm seeing here.
- I think we've been giving Cray a pass for being busy, and for pregnancy brain, but I'd like to apply some pressure here.

I'll have to go and look at Cray's most recent wolfing game (which I think was RvB?), but initially, these posts didn't feel off to me at all. Felt like normal Cray Pbpa that can't be read into. What made me start reconsidering was some tonal differences in sus throwing that appear later on in the ISO.


There have been a few quotes like this where she says something that's just ... below the standard I'm used to for her, for lack of a better phrase. It almost feels like trying too hard to be mimicking the paranoia she has as a villager. Her post this morning that I already responded to was another example of this.


Lightly trying to sow sus on Mel here?


This is where I started feeling a twinge of unease about Cray. Because 1, that's not how Zenge has wolfed historically, but 2, I feel like village!Cray wouldn't ask the question like this to plant the idea in people's minds and have such a weak commitment to it. She's more willing to go for those out-there statements as a villager and just SAY it, even if it ultimately isn't correct.


Again, below the standard I'm accustomed to from Cray. This felt a little overdone.


This reads very NAI to me.


This is more the kind of post I'd expect from village!Cray.


Again, I think this is NAI. Cray's vote here actually, IMO, doesn't give us any info about her OR Sloth's aff, although I'm a bit less inclined to believe in a wolf!Sloth in a wolf!Cray world because Cray's vote put the total at 3 when please was only 2 votes ahead of that. It would be a risky move to put an additional packmate that close to danger when she easily could have gone on Bread instead.


More trying to get people interested in the idea of sussing Zenge after Dina and I had agreed that white knighting really isn't part of Zenge's wolf meta - he's much more likely to go after the low hanging fruits and get them misyeeted. And then, when I persisted and posted some of his early reads the last time he wolfed, her response was hedgy and "well, he might have gotten more sophisticated."




These made me raise an eyebrow for a couple reasons. I post my spreadsheet in every game I play and the color coding has always been the same, and hasn't been an issue in the past. That said, I don't actually know that Cray has ever LOOKED at my spreadsheets lol. But she could easily have gotten the answer to her second question from the spreadsheet, which she apparently did look at this time.


I hope this is a joke and the tone just wasn't conveyed because otherwise, yikes.
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Very interesting that it doesn't seem until I questioned if you were behind Zenge's death that you write a treatise on my supposed wolfing.

I've generally been 100 posts behind but now we've had 800 posts and I've pbpa on 700 of them.

I have definitely voiced some steady sus, but if you want to represent like I haven't....
 
alleycat03 said:
Yes she did. She also said that we could bus Zenge if Dina revealed. And that's how I ended up panic bussing Zenge. Then when I was silenced she had a whole plan on who should bus me and when. I don't remember the specifics and I have no energy to go look, but I think she and Cyndia both voted for me? And I think I voted for her but I'm not certain.
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This is all correct, yep.
 
Dinashadow said:
Didn't cray ask the wolf pack to bus in bioshock particularly when alley was on the chopping block? I can't remember.

@alleycat03 please weigh in
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Yes, and not only that I was sure that there wasn't an obviously discernable pattern, like that any one person was on every bus or off every bus, or a pattern where every wolf was bussed. Or something like that. If that makes sense.

The issue with that game was the extent to which mechanics worked against us, so it was all the more important that we confuse VCA.
 
Dinashadow said:
I'm thinking about whether cray/sloth are compatible and the possibility of a big bussing scheme
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Eh, I don't know that I've ever instituted early or preemptive bussing, like to do deep or something. Usually it's obvious in the tea leaves that VILLAGE is driving a wagon over a wolf and they can't be saved, and then it becomes about how the rest of the pack should react so as to not be outted (and being aware being OFF or even ON a wolf wagon can out a wolf, so timing and rationale for where the wolf pack votes go is important).
 
alleycat03 said:
Can you provide another example of this from a previous game?
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He had an actual scum slip in CYO II that he will probably still maintain was just a joke and I'm sure I can find a specific village one if I go dig around in HZD, but I might have to wait until after yeet close because I'm not sure it's the best use of my time.
 
Dinashadow said:
How do you feel about sloth overall?
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I think she’s got several wolf points, but I have this sinking feeling that she’s going to get misyeeted for the exact same thing she got misyeeted for in the last game she played.
 
Animal Midwife said:
Do you think Cray would opt to bus sloth in a world that almost ties sloth with please? I think they're fully incompatible and she can only be with cubs if we're picking between the two.
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I think me with Cubs is a little bizarre, when as much as I'm being told I have contributed little but crap, I was early to point out his comment on Please looked like sketch defense. Not compatible. I could see us both being villagers, or he's wolf, but I don't think I've ever tried to initiate sketch or heavily increase it preemptively on a packmate.
 
Animal Midwife said:
I guess I'm just hesitant to put Cray in the Stagg zone (unless sloth exactly is some vanilla or meme ability which would then be reasonable bussing again).
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I feel like I've lost more wolf games to trying to salvage wolves than any level of Stagg bussing. Again, I'm not above bussing but I generally have to feel the packmate is a lost cause.
 
Crayola227 said:
I think me with Cubs is a little bizarre, when as much as I'm being told I have contributed little but crap, I was early to point out his comment on Please looked like sketch defense. Not compatible. I could see us both being villagers, or he's wolf, but I don't think I've ever tried to initiate sketch or heavily increase it preemptively on a packmate.
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Your activity level isn't AI. You also are uncomfortable with Mel who is pushing him. This doesn't mean you're a wolf, however. It just means I can't see you/sloth.
 
Crayola227 said:
I always maintain noob wolves will generally do as asked, even if it's being directed to bus.
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But she had to be asked by someone to bus if she was going to. I don’t think a noob wolf would just bus on their own.
 
@alleycat03, here's an example because I could pull it quickly from my role PM in that game. I'll have to think about a specific village!cubs sketchy comment that was brushed off as a joke, I just happen to have this one readily available.

Coopah said:
I don't know why but this post gives me feels that cubs and chaos are on the same faction
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cubsrule4e said:
Honestly if I was, Id probably have quit by now lol.
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supershorty said:
You say this like you know for sure that you're not the same faction 🤔
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cubsrule4e said:
Its a half hearted joking comment implying I dont really care for his playstyle. Nothing more, nothing less.
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cubsrule4e said:
I guess adding "lols" with the comments doesnt even separate my serious posts from the joking ones anymore. :shrug:
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supershorty said:
@alleycat03, here's an example because I could pull it quickly from my role PM in that game. I'll have to think about a specific village!cubs sketchy comment that was brushed off as a joke, I just happen to have this one readily available.

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Was this the discussion where it seemed like he clearly knew chaos was not his faction? So that was the TMI part? I really didn’t understand it during CYO II but I was also scum (of a different faction)
 
Dinashadow said:
I think she needs more pressure at the very least. She hasn't posted enough to get an idea of where her reads/thoughts are.
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I thought in my admittedly fewer posts this game, it was clear, and I think I can say this NOW at least, and ISO will back me up, that I early had sus on Please and Sloth, and committed to that read in my post and my vote on Sloth. Who I am voting again.

Shorty's ISO, yes I was sussing Mel and still am. His play stymies me.

I pointed out where I have issues with Cubs and Alley. Alley I have walked back somewhat.

Others are probably neutral to village.

I have consistently expressed sus on 4 players, Please, Sloth, Cubs, and Mel. Less so on Cyndia and genny but that's more background sus as their posts read village to me this game (but those are two players that can do that and be wolves).

Barks posts also read village. As does AM and Dina. Higher sus on Barks which is similar to Cyndia and genny except I feel her contributions have been more solid.

Bread I forgot was playing but yeah, gonna sheep others' analysis and say he makes sense as village and he otherwise sounds OK go me.

Shorty I would say also sounds very solidly village, but we saw how that turned out in that one game. And her 180 on me when I dared suggest that she killed Zenge... well, I wanted to say that dick wolves game that it made the most sense it was Zenge who killed Shorty, and somehow I didn't. Would Shorty go deep? Would she vote a packmate D1 for distancing reasons thinking she'd never have to follow through and it wouldn't be a real bus? Why the hell not? She's only wolfed twice.

I'm sure I'm forgetting others and that's fine.
 
Animal Midwife said:
Yes, but she henged on a wolf!Zenge world. I'm not connecting her to anyone here.

I don't know that I can do much talking out of it because she's not been all that active. It's just a gut feeling of mine that is weak compared to reasons I have to village read others.
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I don't understand the first sentence.
 
Crayola227 said:
I thought in my admittedly fewer posts this game, it was clear, and I think I can say this NOW at least, and ISO will back me up, that I early had sus on Please and Sloth, and committed to that read in my post and my vote on Sloth. Who I am voting again.

Shorty's ISO, yes I was sussing Mel and still am. His play stymies me.

I pointed out where I have issues with Cubs and Alley. Alley I have walked back somewhat.

Others are probably neutral to village.

I have consistently expressed sus on 4 players, Please, Sloth, Cubs, and Mel. Less so on Cyndia and genny but that's more background sus as their posts read village to me this game (but those are two players that can do that and be wolves).

Barks posts also read village. As does AM and Dina. Higher sus on Barks which is similar to Cyndia and genny except I feel her contributions have been more solid.

Bread I forgot was playing but yeah, gonna sheep others' analysis and say he makes sense as village and he otherwise sounds OK go me.

Shorty I would say also sounds very solidly village, but we saw how that turned out in that one game. And her 180 on me when I dared suggest that she killed Zenge... well, I wanted to say that dick wolves game that it made the most sense it was Zenge who killed Shorty, and somehow I didn't. Would Shorty go deep? Would she vote a packmate D1 for distancing reasons thinking she'd never have to follow through and it wouldn't be a real bus? Why the hell not? She's only wolfed twice.

I'm sure I'm forgetting others and that's fine.
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lol with this logic, you have to be village.

Although ironically, THAT is exactly the statement that earlier, I said would trigger the crap out of me.

"shorty lone wolfed once, it could be that again!!!"
No, that's a low hanging fruit that scum would try. You know, suggest I'd bus with no wolf meta to back that up, etc. etc.

and then I thought about it more and decided I didn't think scum would push that point because it's too obvious. but paranoid villager might.
 
supershorty said:
I'm very curious to see what responses she has to your video post and to my calling her tinfoil dumb because there's a particular one that would set off major alarm bells in my head.
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I'm not married to the idea you're a wolf and you killed Zenge or whatever with the VCA, but I'm not going to be ****ing shamed by you or Midwife either, especially not with what happened that one ****ing game she handed you the win, or the ****ing game it was lo and behold Zenge killing you despite how obvious that was.
 
Crayola227 said:
I thought in my admittedly fewer posts this game, it was clear, and I think I can say this NOW at least, and ISO will back me up, that I early had sus on Please and Sloth, and committed to that read in my post and my vote on Sloth. Who I am voting again.

Shorty's ISO, yes I was sussing Mel and still am. His play stymies me.

I pointed out where I have issues with Cubs and Alley. Alley I have walked back somewhat.

Others are probably neutral to village.

I have consistently expressed sus on 4 players, Please, Sloth, Cubs, and Mel. Less so on Cyndia and genny but that's more background sus as their posts read village to me this game (but those are two players that can do that and be wolves).

Barks posts also read village. As does AM and Dina. Higher sus on Barks which is similar to Cyndia and genny except I feel her contributions have been more solid.

Bread I forgot was playing but yeah, gonna sheep others' analysis and say he makes sense as village and he otherwise sounds OK go me.

Shorty I would say also sounds very solidly village, but we saw how that turned out in that one game. And her 180 on me when I dared suggest that she killed Zenge... well, I wanted to say that dick wolves game that it made the most sense it was Zenge who killed Shorty, and somehow I didn't. Would Shorty go deep? Would she vote a packmate D1 for distancing reasons thinking she'd never have to follow through and it wouldn't be a real bus? Why the hell not? She's only wolfed twice.

I'm sure I'm forgetting others and that's fine.
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See THIS is the type of post I am comfortable labeling as village cray. I vehemently disagree with the shorty analysis, but I find the rest of the post to be very accurate and something I expect from her as a villager. I think the paranoia is really coming into play on her theory about shorty but the rest of it I’m nodding along to.
 
supershorty said:
I'm very curious to see what responses she has to your video post and to my calling her tinfoil dumb because there's a particular one that would set off major alarm bells in my head.
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Shaming people for considering every possibility will always read wolfy af to me. If we're all villagers and we're really trying to solve the game, then we can just say why something doesn't make sense (like you pointed out your VCA I hadn't considered, not that we ever used VCA when we shouldn't have to clear someone).

But only wolves are threatened by these kinds of theories to the point they need to get so mean or manipulative or retaliate.

And it's really rich coming from you and Midwife seeing how you shut down my sus of you that one game, and I was exactly right and it's exactly how we lost the game.

And it was actually fine that people didn't put much stock into my questioning of Shorty that game, or if they don't this game, but I don't appreciate not only the mocking and shutting down, but also the retaliation of sussing me for even suggesting we consider a player when frankly it would be poetic justice if you did kill Zenge. Doesn't mean it happened. Doesn't mean it's a stupid thought either.
 
Crayola227 said:
Shaming people for considering every possibility will always read wolfy af to me. If we're all villagers and we're really trying to solve the game, then we can just say why something doesn't make sense (like you pointed out your VCA I hadn't considered, not that we ever used VCA when we shouldn't have to clear someone).

But only wolves are threatened by these kinds of theories to the point they need to get so mean or manipulative or retaliate.

And it's really rich coming from you and Midwife seeing how you shut down my sus of you that one game, and I was exactly right and it's exactly how we lost the game.

And it was actually fine that people didn't put much stock into my questioning of Shorty that game, or if they don't this game, but I don't appreciate not only the mocking and shutting down, but also the retaliation of sussing me for even suggesting we consider a player when frankly it would be poetic justice if you did kill Zenge. Doesn't mean it happened. Doesn't mean it's a stupid thought either.
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I.
Don't.
Bus.
 
Crayola227 said:
Shaming people for considering every possibility will always read wolfy af to me. If we're all villagers and we're really trying to solve the game, then we can just say why something doesn't make sense (like you pointed out your VCA I hadn't considered, not that we ever used VCA when we shouldn't have to clear someone).

But only wolves are threatened by these kinds of theories to the point they need to get so mean or manipulative or retaliate.

And it's really rich coming from you and Midwife seeing how you shut down my sus of you that one game, and I was exactly right and it's exactly how we lost the game.

And it was actually fine that people didn't put much stock into my questioning of Shorty that game, or if they don't this game, but I don't appreciate not only the mocking and shutting down, but also the retaliation of sussing me for even suggesting we consider a player when frankly it would be poetic justice if you did kill Zenge. Doesn't mean it happened. Doesn't mean it's a stupid thought either.
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shorty shouldn’t be on the chopping block today. I understand you’re sus of her, but she is not the person to focus on today. I don’t think she should ever be up for discussion this game, but I think we need to focus on the people who are WAY wolfier than her. Like 10000x wolfier
 
Crayola227 said:
I'm not married to the idea you're a wolf and you killed Zenge or whatever with the VCA, but I'm not going to be ****ing shamed by you or Midwife either, especially not with what happened that one ****ing game she handed you the win, or the ****ing game it was lo and behold Zenge killing you despite how obvious that was.
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Get out of here with that nonsense. You had the one ability that would have outted shorty and you chose not to use it. I've addressed this a million times.

I was right in the other game too where you voted me for days when I was village.

So quit while your ahead before I turn this into another lesson.
 
supershorty said:
No, this is part of why I'm planning to ISO genny's posts today when I get a chance. I can read pleasy's posts and go "this could be a soft distancing attempt," but she could very easily have been saying that to hedge on a village!genny too. genny hasn't posted anything yet this game that triggered me the way she did in HZD, but she's been floating in my neutrals because I haven't gotten enough to feel like she's definitely village either. I'm hoping that going back and looking at all of her posts might help me.
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We have to remember that wolves also hedge on villagers because they don't always want to commit to a read that will make an enemy of someone or commit themselves to a misyeet, but nor do they want to make it look sketch if the wind blows that way and they can push a villager misyeet later.
 
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