WWild WWedding Afterparty Game Thread - A Pipsy & Jbooze Production

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I'm not a super big fan of cheezit instigating a scramble onto entirely new candidates with <1 hour to go in the day. Not sure if it's affiliation indicative. But I don't much like it.

At 5 p.m. I made a 3 way tie with Kara for two reasons
1. I saw consolidation beginning to happen and wanted to make sure people had multiple candidates to consolidate on. That way a wolf couldn't just bandwagon onto a wagon and use "I didn't think any of the other wagons were viable" as an excuse.

2. I wanted to watch where the next couple of votes would go if there was a 3 way tie. If one of the three on the chopping block were a wolf, and I was part of the wolf pack, I'd be a little nervous letting that tie sit for a while, and probably would have said or done something to get people to vote away from the wolf. Genny broke the tie towards LotF when she replaced in, but didn't set off wolf flags for me the way she did it. I went with the assumption that if no wolf was trying to control the lynch all three viable lynches probably were villagers, so lets look somewhere else. I had feels for Capri, so I went there.
 
At 5 p.m. I made a 3 way tie with Kara for two reasons
1. I saw consolidation beginning to happen and wanted to make sure people had multiple candidates to consolidate on. That way a wolf couldn't just bandwagon onto a wagon and use "I didn't think any of the other wagons were viable" as an excuse.

2. I wanted to watch where the next couple of votes would go if there was a 3 way tie. If one of the three on the chopping block were a wolf, and I was part of the wolf pack, I'd be a little nervous letting that tie sit for a while, and probably would have said or done something to get people to vote away from the wolf. Genny broke the tie towards LotF when she replaced in, but didn't set off wolf flags for me the way she did it. I went with the assumption that if no wolf was trying to control the lynch all three viable lynches probably were villagers, so lets look somewhere else. I had feels for Capri, so I went there.
What feels please explain
 
At 5 p.m. I made a 3 way tie with Kara for two reasons
1. I saw consolidation beginning to happen and wanted to make sure people had multiple candidates to consolidate on. That way a wolf couldn't just bandwagon onto a wagon and use "I didn't think any of the other wagons were viable" as an excuse.

2. I wanted to watch where the next couple of votes would go if there was a 3 way tie. If one of the three on the chopping block were a wolf, and I was part of the wolf pack, I'd be a little nervous letting that tie sit for a while, and probably would have said or done something to get people to vote away from the wolf. Genny broke the tie towards LotF when she replaced in, but didn't set off wolf flags for me the way she did it. I went with the assumption that if no wolf was trying to control the lynch all three viable lynches probably were villagers, so lets look somewhere else. I had feels for Capri, so I went there.
That's chill and I like the reasoning to an extent, still don't like the timing

But for completeness would also like to point out
1) you could have been a wolf getting antsy about the ties sitting there and decided to shake things up
2) the ability for wolves to control the lynch depends on numbers and you're oversimplifying wolf behavior
 
my instinct said, always a good move, I read this as village, but then I thought that was probably what you wanted me to think, and this would be a sneaky way for wolf genny to get Mel out of the way early with little risk. He's easy to start joke bandwagons on

nvm he's being wolfy af right now that I've caught up

given what you quoted here not really seeing what your problem is Cheezit

@Crayola227 if you're going to throw sketch my way, I'd love to see you actually put your name/vote to it instead of waiting to see if your sparks will catch fire.
 
That's chill and I like the reasoning to an extent, still don't like the timing

But for completeness would also like to point out
1) you could have been a wolf getting antsy about the ties sitting there and decided to shake things up
2) the ability for wolves to control the lynch depends on numbers and you're oversimplifying wolf behavior
I honestly agreed with the sketchiness Mel pointed out about Capri staying on a mod vote and was going to switch off of AM if everyone was going to stay on coffee (bc I am not feeling the sketch factor with coffee). Since people started switching I didn’t need to. But I definitely agree with WZ’s logic, since just being a wolf I learned that there are many ways to wolf, and I mean following your own logic of you being a wolf you’d want to get rid of the tie sooner rather than later. But you could just be saying that when in reality you’re fine waiting till later on when you have a decent reasoning/or more people have posted to go off of. Which you kinda did by pointing out about Capri which I honestly hadn’t realized her vote was still sitting on a mod. The only problem I have with this is I initially didn’t think Kara, LOTF, and lawper were necessarily giving major wolfy vibes, of course it’s early so it’s certainly possible one is.
So in summary originally agreed with Mel, liked his further explanation sort of, then agreed with thoughts of WZ, proposed theory about Mel.
But clearly I’m too tired and feel like ok talking in a circle. 😴
 
@Crayola227 if you're going to throw sketch my way, I'd love to see you actually put your name/vote to it instead of waiting to see if your sparks will catch fire.
haven't thrown my contingency lynch towards you yet, Cheezit, I was giving you a chance to explain

Not to mention when I noted your sketchy behavior it was hardly the time for me to do so

If I was a wolf I wouldn't have to wait to start a train on you, Mel, ever. The fact I have given you a chance is less sketchy than if I hadn't.
 
haven't thrown my contingency lynch towards you yet, Cheezit, I was giving you a chance to explain

Not to mention when I noted your sketchy behavior it was hardly the time for me to do so

If I was a wolf I wouldn't have to wait to start a train on you, Mel, ever. The fact I have given you a chance is less sketchy than if I hadn't.
This confuses me lol but whatever I think you're right about mel. He sketches me out
 
Night 1 Official ~ Y'All Gonna Make Me Lose My Mind ~ Contingency Lynch Tally

everyone (1) - Na'vi's slave

1/21 voting

~Up in here up in here ~

Night 1 Close 8am EST (~7.5 hrs)
D2 Lynch close 10pm EST (many hours)

~Y'all gonna make me act a FOOL~
 
Last edited:
Night 2 Official ~ Y'All Gonna Make Me Lose My Mind ~ Contingency Lynch Tally

everyone (1) - Na'vi's slave

1/21 voting

~Up in here up in here ~

Night 1 Close 8am EST (~7.5 hrs)
D2 Lynch close 10pm EST (many hours)

~Y'all gonna make me act a FOOL~

It is Na'Vi's bitch.... get it right. 😉
 
This confuses me lol but whatever I think you're right about mel. He sketches me out

Mel is trying to imply that me implying he's wolfy, but not voting there yet, is wolfy, on the assumption that wolves like to see if they can start a train on someone first before committing there.

I was pointing out, that when I wolf, I never worry about going after Cheezit making me look wolfy. It's like saying breathing air is wolfy. In fact, if I'm a wolf he's my favorite target just for the reason that he quotes Dubz saying "a vote for Cheezit is never wrong." If I was a wolf, I could early vote Mel all day long and get this stupid village cred we give everyone for dropping early votes, and when I was wrong about him, I could shrug and seriously, it's NAI.

OTOH, if I pull the punch with Mel it's because when I'm village I want him around, if he's not causing more chaos than he helps to solve. Right now I can't tell what he's up to.
 
OK, you guys have literally driven me to drink, the last time I bought a beer was one month ago, and I'm having one tonight.

Since we know the time between lynch close and night close is my wonderland, I'm going to rant about WW.

This thing about early votes is ridiculous to me. So much WIFOM it's not even real. It's true what people say about wolves not wanting to commit and then backtrack. OTOH, this gets into my fave article at the moment

Resolving Simple vs Human - MafiaWiki

People think dropping an early vote is town. As a wolf, it's not hard to create a narrative that looks town. You just have do one better as a wolf in that you consider how your "reasoning" for your vote looks, and then what your "reasoning" looks like for changing it. You don't have to be on villager wagon trains. One villager's death is the same as another, at least early game, exceptions aside.

Wolfy me never hesitates to vote for any given frakking villager as long as I can cough up a decent reason, usually one I've been cultivating from the day before if not longer.

Literally the only time I have to do anything with my votes that risks looking wolfy is when I have an agenda about who does or does not die. That's typically only going to be if I'm trying to get 2 for the price of 1 with a tie (often not worth it since it's obvious), protect a fellow wolf, steer the vote onto a suspected PR, or working to silence someone or create the village set up I want for lylo, or pocket someone. It's that simple. Note that serving any of the above agendas, none of them force me to have to risk being obvious with my vote.

Some wolves like to drive trains and lynches, others don't.

What do we say is wolfy voting? And how hard is it to course correct and appear town?
voting without reason, changing votes conveniently, late voting, tie creating, breaking ties in benefit of wolves (only usually obvious in hindsight they did this). The big one is lack of good reasoning. That can be subtle too, since in the dark villagers can look like real idiots having to go off of feelz, and those feelz are often right even if they look dumb. Wolves don't have to use feelz, they can just use the thread and the pulse of the village paranoia to look more justified than clueless villagers.

Anyway, I've always found it pretty ridiculously easy to avoid the above as a wolf with my votes. It's honestly harder not to commit these sins as a villager.

So fair enough when we actually do get someone to flip wolf, voting behavior can be extremely telling, that's when wolves get really nervous and make mistakes, I think.

Why these long treatises on gameplay, particularly my wolf play? OK, this particular game aside, it's really not just about me. I could be totally full of it. The point is, does any of this lend thoughts that can help us put game play in perspective and play better? I hope so. I might not be playing better with all this. I'm fully confident so many of you can digest this and apply it with much better results than I.
 
argh OK I'm a lightweight, already feeling this tall bottle of IPA 1/2 in

moral of the story is yeah, voting behavior is really useful, but it's so much more subtle than early or late timing of votes, how people are sitting on votes

I agree that which way ties are broken matters
 
**** I feel pretty wasted and damn PST no one is awake to fight with this sucks

I wanna ww hydrated
I'm awake, I'm just enjoying you ranting away :laugh:
Unfortunately I can't argue with you because I have yet to see you take a coherent stance on anything worth arguing about haha

How do you feel about lawper?
 
I'm awake, I'm just enjoying you ranting away :laugh:
Unfortunately I can't argue with you because I have yet to see you take a coherent stance on anything worth arguing about haha

How do you feel about lawper?

very good question, I should reread his stuff, because he was saying stuff and it seemed like he did have more of an agenda than I expected for a relative noob this early on
 
my stance is that you're sketch, while late votes or holding votes can be sketch, early voting means nothing as wolves are happy to early vote villagers for cred as they don't have the sane pain of deliberation involved in their vote choices as villagers do
 
I'm also awake but was reading and trying to understand the article (I love mafia theory articles). I can't quiiiite wrap my head around the distinction they're making. Maybe it's the sleep deprivation.
Sigh
 
I'm also awake but was reading and trying to understand the article (I love mafia theory articles). I can't quiiiite wrap my head around the distinction their making. Maybe it's the sleep deprivation.

It took me a couple of reads to get it. It has to do with how the writer defines action and narrative. Try it when you aren't tired.

I'll just have to refer to the summary again. It took a while to sink in.

In Summary
A town player tends to act in complicated ways which are more complex, but without an agenda which makes it easier to read their narrative; a scum player tends to act in ways which are simpler, but with an agenda which requires a more complicated narrative. Confusing the two is disastrous and will lead to many town losses, as they are distinctly different things.

I posted the article for those interested in reading but too lazy to click the link
So in the game of mafia, there exists a fundamental argument which is a guiding principle of the game: keep it simple. Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is often the correct one.

...And yet. This runs into a small problem. Humans are complex; we aren't simple. We have all of these things which complicate the equations we would run: we don't all think the same way; we don't all express our thoughts the same way; we don't all experience the same emotions; we don't all have the same stimulus for emotions.

What we do is influenced both by thought and by emotion, by feeling, and yet these are things which cannot be universally applied, boiled down to what's the simplest answer for everything.

All the same, when it comes to scumhunting, you can often still differentiate between the two. When a person's actions are simplistic, they are more likely to be scum; when a person's narrative is simplistic, it is more likely to be accurate (and thus, town). These are not a contradiction. Having a simplistic narrative is following Occam's Razor.

The former, however, takes a little more explaining. Essentially, it boils down to humans being difficult to consistently understand one another. We're all ****ed up individuals. As a result, it's difficult to pin down what we tend to think, right?

...Kind-of. In my experience, a scum role PM te
nds make a person be incredibly objective-oriented. They know their wincon. They are the informed minority. And so, they have a bias in their actions. The job of a scum player is to do actions which help the scum while looking like they are helping the town. So a scum player's focuses are rather simple. They are interested in a specific way of portraying things. Their posting is often more simple, because their goal is simpler: look town, while not helping town.

In contrast, a town role PM actually tends to keep people closer to their default human status: they lack direction. A town player, as the uninformed majority, doesn't have an idea what they are doing. They are inherently random and chaotic. As a result, they are more complex and harder to figure out. This is why it's so easy to misread players: scum are better at giving a good image than town are. They will have posting which there's only a few select interpretations of. With town, a town player doesn't have that same interest in looking town, so they don't have a focus on their image. Without image control, it can be hard to understand what they are doing and why it's town. (Often, even they don't know!)

Town players tend to be more human, more complex, whereas scum players tend to be more simple in their posting. And yet, their narratives are the inverse. A scum player's narrative requires an extra step to make sense; a town player's narrative is what makes the most sense. Because scum are aiming for a goal opposite of town, their disguise to look town requires more explanation. This extra explanation, this complexity in the narrative, is where they begin to violate Occam's Razor, making them stand out more.

There's a few takeaways even if none of it makes sense. I agree that a scum PM makes people more goal and image oriented. Villagers lack direction.

That's one reason I talk about "too village to be true." Usually I catch someone because they're trying too hard to make sense. Wolves have the burden of being able to be right about everything they say on one hand, yet at the same time, always wrong. That's the discrepancy they have to explain away. That's when complexity enters the narrative.
 
It took me a couple of reads to get it. It has to do with how the writer defines action and narrative. Try it when you aren't tired.

I'll just have to refer to the summary again. It took a while to sink in.



I posted the article for those interested in reading but too lazy to click the link
So in the game of mafia, there exists a fundamental argument which is a guiding principle of the game: keep it simple. Occam's Razor dictates that the simplest explanation is often the correct one.

...And yet. This runs into a small problem. Humans are complex; we aren't simple. We have all of these things which complicate the equations we would run: we don't all think the same way; we don't all express our thoughts the same way; we don't all experience the same emotions; we don't all have the same stimulus for emotions.

What we do is influenced both by thought and by emotion, by feeling, and yet these are things which cannot be universally applied, boiled down to what's the simplest answer for everything.

All the same, when it comes to scumhunting, you can often still differentiate between the two. When a person's actions are simplistic, they are more likely to be scum; when a person's narrative is simplistic, it is more likely to be accurate (and thus, town). These are not a contradiction. Having a simplistic narrative is following Occam's Razor.

The former, however, takes a little more explaining. Essentially, it boils down to humans being difficult to consistently understand one another. We're all ****ed up individuals. As a result, it's difficult to pin down what we tend to think, right?

...Kind-of. In my experience, a scum role PM te
nds make a person be incredibly objective-oriented. They know their wincon. They are the informed minority. And so, they have a bias in their actions. The job of a scum player is to do actions which help the scum while looking like they are helping the town. So a scum player's focuses are rather simple. They are interested in a specific way of portraying things. Their posting is often more simple, because their goal is simpler: look town, while not helping town.

In contrast, a town role PM actually tends to keep people closer to their default human status: they lack direction. A town player, as the uninformed majority, doesn't have an idea what they are doing. They are inherently random and chaotic. As a result, they are more complex and harder to figure out. This is why it's so easy to misread players: scum are better at giving a good image than town are. They will have posting which there's only a few select interpretations of. With town, a town player doesn't have that same interest in looking town, so they don't have a focus on their image. Without image control, it can be hard to understand what they are doing and why it's town. (Often, even they don't know!)

Town players tend to be more human, more complex, whereas scum players tend to be more simple in their posting. And yet, their narratives are the inverse. A scum player's narrative requires an extra step to make sense; a town player's narrative is what makes the most sense. Because scum are aiming for a goal opposite of town, their disguise to look town requires more explanation. This extra explanation, this complexity in the narrative, is where they begin to violate Occam's Razor, making them stand out more.

There's a few takeaways even if none of it makes sense. I agree that a scum PM makes people more goal and image oriented. Villagers lack direction.

That's one reason I talk about "too village to be true." Usually I catch someone because they're trying too hard to make sense. Wolves have the burden of being able to be right about everything they say on one hand, yet at the same time, always wrong. That's the discrepancy they have to explain away. That's when complexity enters the narrative.
Hmph. From what I remember of the times you've talked about people being "too village to be true" you were referring to people who actually were village 😛
 
Anyway I refer to cheezit's post in the sign up thread for why I don't put too much stock in that particular distinction. There is too much variation in village and wolf playstyles to be able to apply that kind of thing in a practical sense.
 
At 5 p.m. I made a 3 way tie with Kara for two reasons
1. I saw consolidation beginning to happen and wanted to make sure people had multiple candidates to consolidate on. That way a wolf couldn't just bandwagon onto a wagon and use "I didn't think any of the other wagons were viable" as an excuse.

2. I wanted to watch where the next couple of votes would go if there was a 3 way tie. If one of the three on the chopping block were a wolf, and I was part of the wolf pack, I'd be a little nervous letting that tie sit for a while, and probably would have said or done something to get people to vote away from the wolf. Genny broke the tie towards LotF when she replaced in, but didn't set off wolf flags for me the way she did it. I went with the assumption that if no wolf was trying to control the lynch all three viable lynches probably were villagers, so lets look somewhere else. I had feels for Capri, so I went there.

I don't blame the feels, she's gorgeous but she did not interact at all to give any feels.



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Cray cray went off the rails last night trying to reverse psych us?.

Let me put this here for now, may change as the day goes on. Could put it in cheeZy dick.

####lynch cray cray#####


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_____________________________________

Night 1
We found love in a hopeless place
We found love in a hopeless place
The party was off to a rollicking start. The wedding guests piled into the party bus, someone put DMX on the bus speakers, and everyone began to dance as the bus driver said "Hey! Please stay behind the yellow line and no dancing in the aisle while the bus is in motion." No one listened over the sound of champagne corks popping.

Not everyone made it to the bus, though. A couple guests had hung back at the hotel for a bit before going out. :naughty:

You know, weddings are a great opportunity to reconnect with old friends from your past. And when one of those friends is your best friend from college who used to be a FWBs and is still really hot...let's just say that things got a little spicy. Unfortunately, during the fun, one of the BFFs also became good friends -- too good -- with the minibar offerings, and passed out before she could make it down to catch the Uber to meet up with the rest of the party guests. Oh well. Maybe she'll boot and rally?

Dead is @SportPonies , A BFFWB

Mason UPGRADED to MASON+


_____________________________________​


Up To Some Shenanigans

1. @WildZoo - Wubba dub dubz
2. @Melchizedek - "The one with the only normal name on the list"
3. @Animal Midwife - AM's wolf meta
4. @Crayola227 - Cray cray
5. @SARdoghandler - SARdines are salty so the salt is justified
6. @bryndiana.jones - bryndiana in the house
7. @Karabiner13 - Ka-razybiner13
8. @CoffeeQuestionMark - Alcohol?
9. @Lawper - Drunk Lawpy
10. @StayingPositive2017 - Get your Paws off me
11. @allieh8607 - Allie oop
12. @youngkal - youngKal-eidoscope
13. @LadyOtheFarm - the artist formerly known as Princess B.C.
14. @SportPonies - Sporty Spice
15. @DVMDream - Na'Vi's bitch
16. @MixedAnimals77 - Sir Mixalot
17. @capri1722 - sunrise capri sun
18. @Miranda Senft - I find this to be aMOOSEing
19. @Coopah - Coopa Troopa
20. @dolphin106258 - Dolphin dive
21. @genny - genny I got your number
22. @tartesos - tarty

Crashed for the Night
17. @capri1722 , The DD - Deathproofer
14. @SportPonies, BFFWB - Mason+

Pub Crawl Coordinators
@PippyPony
@johnnaboo
It is now DAY TWO.
_________________
 
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