2020-2021 Waitlist Support Thread

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Mayor_Chano said:
I asked an unrelated question, but in their response they brought up that I was in a favorable spot. It was a pleasant surprise.
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Good to hear! Out of curiosity, was this email, phone call, etc?
 
Hi all! I have 7 waitlists this year with most of them at higher tier schools. I'm a high stat ORM applicant (3.99/527), just to provide some background, and really don't want to reapply. I've already sent update letters to all the schools I'm waitlisted at and am wondering if there's anything else I can do to improve my chances of getting off the waitlist. Would it help to call schools and try to gauge my position on the waitlist/reaffirm my interest? Does having 7 waitlists make it very likely I'll get pulled off a waitlist?

I'm a bit frustrated at how my cycle has gone. I was very fortunate to receive over 10 interviews and believe my lack of acceptances might be attributable to my interviewing skills, which is tough because I've felt like I've connected with people I've interviewed with. It is what it is though, and I'm being realistic and not discounting the possibility of reapplication. Would really appreciate everyone's advice! Thank you in advance.
 
waitlisthelpplease said:
Hi all! I have 7 waitlists this year with most of them at higher tier schools. I'm a high stat ORM applicant (3.99/527), just to provide some background, and really don't want to reapply. I've already sent update letters to all the schools I'm waitlisted at and am wondering if there's anything else I can do to improve my chances of getting off the waitlist. Would it help to call schools and try to gauge my position on the waitlist/reaffirm my interest? Does having 7 waitlists make it very likely I'll get pulled off a waitlist?

I'm a bit frustrated at how my cycle has gone. I was very fortunate to receive over 10 interviews and believe my lack of acceptances might be attributable to my interviewing skills, which is tough because I've felt like I've connected with people I've interviewed with. It is what it is though, and I'm being realistic and not discounting the possibility of reapplication. Would really appreciate everyone's advice! Thank you in advance.
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Hard to definitively say but the odds of getting off one WL are definitely in your favor. Keep your chin up!
 
Hello_There_117 said:
I also had a question along these lines. How much of the PS should be changed? I think with 5 II out of 12 schools I had a good PS and my advisors also told me it had a compelling story so I'm not certain how to change the PS.
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Sorry for late response. If you read both my personal statements you'd see some similar elements but overall very different and much better written PS. I dug deeper, reflected harder and had a more compelling story.
 
waitlisthelpplease said:
waitlisthelpplease said:
Hi all! I have 7 waitlists this year with most of them at higher tier schools. I'm a high stat ORM applicant (3.99/527), just to provide some background, and really don't want to reapply. I've already sent update letters to all the schools I'm waitlisted at and am wondering if there's anything else I can do to improve my chances of getting off the waitlist. Would it help to call schools and try to gauge my position on the waitlist/reaffirm my interest? Does having 7 waitlists make it very likely I'll get pulled off a waitlist?

I'm a bit frustrated at how my cycle has gone. I was very fortunate to receive over 10 interviews and believe my lack of acceptances might be attributable to my interviewing skills, which is tough because I've felt like I've connected with people I've interviewed with. It is what it is though, and I'm being realistic and not discounting the possibility of reapplication. Would really appreciate everyone's advice! Thank you in advance.
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Jeez I'm so sorry man. Is your state school on that list/what schools have you been WL on?
 
waitlisthelpplease said:
Hi all! I have 7 waitlists this year with most of them at higher tier schools. I'm a high stat ORM applicant (3.99/527), just to provide some background, and really don't want to reapply. I've already sent update letters to all the schools I'm waitlisted at and am wondering if there's anything else I can do to improve my chances of getting off the waitlist. Would it help to call schools and try to gauge my position on the waitlist/reaffirm my interest? Does having 7 waitlists make it very likely I'll get pulled off a waitlist?

I'm a bit frustrated at how my cycle has gone. I was very fortunate to receive over 10 interviews and believe my lack of acceptances might be attributable to my interviewing skills, which is tough because I've felt like I've connected with people I've interviewed with. It is what it is though, and I'm being realistic and not discounting the possibility of reapplication. Would really appreciate everyone's advice! Thank you in advance.
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Woah. I'm sorry to say that your experience is every high stat applicant's worst nightmare. I REALLY hope things work out for you.

That said, assuming you had something resembling the expected collection of ECs, what could you possibly say in an update that would enhance your application? If your problem really was your interviews, no update is going to remediate that. If they don't already want you with a 3.99/527, nothing you say at this point is going to change that.

Also, high tier schools are obviously not hurting for high stat candidates, so your stats aren't going to impress them. Neither will your level of desperation, as indicated by reaffirming your interest in April. Think about it -- if 5 of your 10 IIs turned into As, would you have made this post, or be considering begging the other 5 schools for As? Don't you think the schools know that? I honestly think this tier of school will be turned off by desperation rather than respond positively to it.

Yes, statistically, with 7 IIs you should expect at least 2 As. On the other hand, with your stats, with 10 IIs, it would not be unreasonable for you to have scored around 5 As at this point, so something is clearly going on. Maybe your interviews, maybe something else. As hard as it is, there really is nothing to do other than wait at this point. Either it will work out or it won't, but sending updates or expressions of desperation in April is highly unlikely to alter the outcome for a 3.99/527 candidate. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
 
KnightDoc said:
Woah. I'm sorry to say that your experience is every high stat applicant's worst nightmare. I REALLY hope things work out for you.

That said, assuming you had something resembling the expected collection of ECs, what could you possibly say in an update that would enhance your application? If your problem really was your interviews, no update is going to remediate that. If they don't already want you with a 3.99/527, nothing you say at this point is going to change that.

Also, high tier schools are obviously not hurting for high stat candidates, so your stats aren't going to impress them. Neither will your level of desperation, as indicated by reaffirming your interest in April. Think about it -- if 5 of your 10 IIs turned into As, would you have made this post, or be considering begging the other 5 schools for As? Don't you think the schools know that? I honestly think this tier of school will be turned off by desperation rather than respond positively to it.

Yes, statistically, with 7 IIs you should expect at least 2 As. On the other hand, with your stats, with 10 IIs, it would not be unreasonable for you to have scored around 5 As at this point, so something is clearly going on. Maybe your interviews, maybe something else. As hard as it is, there really is nothing to do other than wait at this point. Either it will work out or it won't, but sending updates or expressions of desperation in April is highly unlikely to alter the outcome for a 3.99/527 candidate. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
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lmao knightdoc what r u talking about.
 
KnightDoc said:
Woah. I'm sorry to say that your experience is every high stat applicant's worst nightmare. I REALLY hope things work out for you.

That said, assuming you had something resembling the expected collection of ECs, what could you possibly say in an update that would enhance your application? If your problem really was your interviews, no update is going to remediate that. If they don't already want you with a 3.99/527, nothing you say at this point is going to change that.

Also, high tier schools are obviously not hurting for high stat candidates, so your stats aren't going to impress them. Neither will your level of desperation, as indicated by reaffirming your interest in April. Think about it -- if 5 of your 10 IIs turned into As, would you have made this post, or be considering begging the other 5 schools for As? Don't you think the schools know that? I honestly think this tier of school will be turned off by desperation rather than respond positively to it.

Yes, statistically, with 7 IIs you should expect at least 2 As. On the other hand, with your stats, with 10 IIs, it would not be unreasonable for you to have scored around 5 As at this point, so something is clearly going on. Maybe your interviews, maybe something else. As hard as it is, there really is nothing to do other than wait at this point. Either it will work out or it won't, but sending updates or expressions of desperation in April is highly unlikely to alter the outcome for a 3.99/527 candidate. GOOD LUCK!!!!!!
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This guy/girl really said ‘expressions of desperation’ lol enough sdn for me today everyone 🥲

edit: but seriously to waitlisthelpplease, some schools (like mayo if you interviewed there) highkey love letter of intents. I can’t say much since idk where you interviewed, but look into schools that you are waitlisted at! Some are more receptive to letter of interest/intent than other.
 
Talldoctor96 said:
lmao knightdoc what r u talking about.
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I didn't mean any offense and didn't expect the negative reaction. I guess I should have kept my thoughts to myself.

What I was trying to say is that it's impossible to see what could be improved upon in an applicant with a 100%-ile GPA and 100%-ile MCAT. So, assuming decent ECs, something is going on with a candidate with those stats and 10 IIs and 0 As, beyond "tough cycle."

Maybe it works out and the poster is called off a few WLs, maybe not, but, IMHO, there is nothing the poster can do with an update at this point to change whatever is going to happen. I honestly don't see how anyone with those stats "reaffirming interest" in April signals anything other than desperation. If I'm wrong, so be it. I hope I am.

All I can say is that my stats aren't nearly as good, and that post is literally my worst nightmare.
 
KnightDoc said:
I didn't mean any offense and didn't expect the negative reaction. I guess I should have kept my thoughts to myself.

What I was trying to say is that it's impossible to see what could be improved upon in an applicant with a 100%-ile GPA and 100%-ile MCAT. So, assuming decent ECs, something is going on with a candidate with those stats and 10 IIs and 0 As, beyond "tough cycle."

Maybe it works out and the poster is called off a few WLs, maybe not, but, IMHO, there is nothing the poster can do with an update at this point to change whatever is going to happen. I honestly don't see how anyone with those stats "reaffirming interest" in April signals anything other than desperation. If I'm wrong, so be it. I hope I am.

All I can say is that my stats aren't nearly as good, and that post is literally my worst nightmare.
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I found the remarks rather patronizing and presumptuous. It wasn’t necessarily the thoughts themselves as much as it was the tone of your comments that I felt were inappropriate given that the title of the thread is “Waitlist Support.” Perhaps once you’ve actually gone through the application process firsthand you’d understand the amount of stress applicants experience and the rationale behind the thoughts you perceive as “desperation.”
 
KnightDoc said:
I didn't mean any offense and didn't expect the negative reaction. I guess I should have kept my thoughts to myself.

What I was trying to say is that it's impossible to see what could be improved upon in an applicant with a 100%-ile GPA and 100%-ile MCAT. So, assuming decent ECs, something is going on with a candidate with those stats and 10 IIs and 0 As, beyond "tough cycle."

Maybe it works out and the poster is called off a few WLs, maybe not, but, IMHO, there is nothing the poster can do with an update at this point to change whatever is going to happen. I honestly don't see how anyone with those stats "reaffirming interest" in April signals anything other than desperation. If I'm wrong, so be it. I hope I am.

All I can say is that my stats aren't nearly as good, and that post is literally my worst nightmare.
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i think people understand your intention to provide useful information, but it just couldve been delivered differently! for example, telling someone who is already struggling that their situation is "a nightmare" and that their statistics are "unimpressive" (which i dont think is true, even to top schools) can be hurtful/discouraging, regardless of intent.
also, some "top" schools do really appreciate letters of interest and/or intent - if schools really were uninterested in an applicant, or if they really screwed up every single interview with the same mistake, they would have had many more rejections and not waitlist offers. a waitlist offer means you're still being considered for admission given additional spots opening up, so i dont see how well thought-out, genuine/meaningful letters could hurt them. i can see where you're coming from about sounding "desperate", but i dont really see how having higher stats would make them sound any more desperate than an applicant with lower stats who sends the same letter.
 
Earthworm Slim said:
I found the remarks rather patronizing and presumptuous. It wasn’t necessarily the thoughts themselves as much as it was the tone of your comments that I felt were inappropriate given that the title of the thread is “Waitlist Support.” Perhaps once you’ve actually gone through the application process firsthand you’d understand the amount of stress applicants experience and the rationale behind the thoughts you perceive as “desperation.”
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Points well taken. I am extremely aware of the fact that I might very well find myself in this exact situation this time next year, and absolutely did not mean to come off as patronizing or presumptuous. I guess I'm a little tone deaf, because I kind of took it for granted that anyone with 0 As at this point in the cycle IS desperate and acknowledges it. No shame in that. The question is whether sharing that with the schools helps or hurts.

Someone with a few As who would really rather go to another school (preferably one lower ranked), who has room for improvement and some accomplishment worth sharing with a school seems to me to be a prime candidate to send an update and/or LOI. Someone with perfect stats and 0 As begging to be pulled off a WL, not so much.

No, I haven't been through it yet. I've been living through you guys for the past two years, so I have no personal experience with how nerve wracking and gut wrenching it must be. I also have the objectivity of someone not personally going through it to not fully embrace grasping at every straw. I absolutely WAS trying to be supportive by advising sitting tight, difficult as that might be, because it seems to me, as a disinterested bystander, that updating a 3.99/527 application in April would be seen as desperate and counterproductive.

Reasonable people can certainly disagree, and I honestly only meant to be helpful. I am sorry if the tone did not resonate.
 
I appreciate the comments! Lol I guess I'd say I'm hoping to get pulled off a waitlist, yes. My goal is not necessarily to communicate I'm desperate -- though yeah, I'd really like to get pulled off a waitlist so I don't have to go through all of this again -- but rather to send some updates about some things that weren't already shown on my application. I don't think having high stats means there's nothing else I can add to my application. I'm sure my stats helped in getting me interviews, but as was alluded to, I would never expect to be a shoo-in at schools because of them. Therefore, my goal with update letters was to provide additional info about who I am and what I've been doing, as well as reaffirm my interest in the schools.

But don't worry, I didn't take any offense to your comments. I understand why I'd come off as desperate. I'm just frustrated but trying to be patient, wish for the best, and do what I can at this point.

If there's any school-specific advice people can give me, I'd appreciate it. I was waitlisted at WUSTL, Cornell, Pritzker, CCLCM, Ohio State, NYU, and Case Western.
 
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waitlisthelpplease said:
I appreciate the comments! Lol I guess I'd say I'm hoping to get pulled off a waitlist, yes. My goal is not necessarily to communicate I'm desperate -- though yeah, I'd really like to get pulled off a waitlist so I don't have to go through all of this again -- but rather to send some updates about some things that weren't already shown on my application. I don't think having high stats means there's nothing else I can add to my application. I'm sure my stats helped in getting me interviews, but as was alluded to, I would never expect to be a shoe-in at schools because of them. Therefore, my goal with update letters was to provide additional info about who I am and what I've been doing, as well as reaffirm my interest in the schools.

But don't worry, I didn't take any offense to your comments. I understand why I'd come off as desperate. I'm just frustrated but trying to be patient, wish for the best, and do what I can at this point.

If there's any school-specific advice people can give me, I'd appreciate it. I was waitlisted at WUSTL, Cornell, Pritzker, CCLCM, Ohio State, NYU, and Case Western.
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Right here with you on the WUSTL and Case Western watilists. Praying for us both, friend.
 
waitlisthelpplease said:
I appreciate the comments! Lol I guess I'd say I'm hoping to get pulled off a waitlist, yes. My goal is not necessarily to communicate I'm desperate -- though yeah, I'd really like to get pulled off a waitlist so I don't have to go through all of this again -- but rather to send some updates about some things that weren't already shown on my application. I don't think having high stats means there's nothing else I can add to my application. I'm sure my stats helped in getting me interviews, but as was alluded to, I would never expect to be a shoe-in at schools because of them. Therefore, my goal with update letters was to provide additional info about who I am and what I've been doing, as well as reaffirm my interest in the schools.

But don't worry, I didn't take any offense to your comments. I understand why I'd come off as desperate. I'm just frustrated but trying to be patient, wish for the best, and do what I can at this point.

If there's any school-specific advice people can give me, I'd appreciate it. I was waitlisted at WUSTL, Cornell, Pritzker, CCLCM, Ohio State, NYU, and Case Western.
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This is tangential (and a point that I'm making to kill time at work) but I've never understood why "appearing desperate" is so frowned upon.

Like, no **** I'm desperate, this is my life's dream - my bad for wanting to do everything within my power to make it come true?

For the sake of generalization, there is effectively no difference between an accepted applicant and a waitlisted applicant with regard to the admissions committee's interpretation of both candidates' ability to complete medical school. So, all else being equal between two waitlistees (I know, I know, rarely, if ever, is that the case) why not accept the one that has clearly demonstrated their interest?

Getting dinged for "appearing desperate" seems so comical. We spend 3 - (far too many for me) years proving our worth as prospective physicians and at the pre-med finish line you're just supposed to play "hard to get"?
 
DilNyethescienceguy said:
This is tangential (and a point that I'm making to kill time at work) but I've never understood why "appearing desperate" is so frowned upon.

Like, no **** I'm desperate, this is my life's dream - my bad for wanting to do everything within my power to make it come true?

For the sake of generalization, there is effectively no difference between an accepted applicant and a waitlisted applicant with regard to the admissions committee's interpretation of both candidates' ability to complete medical school. So, all else being equal between two waitlistees (I know, I know, rarely, if ever, is that the case) why not accept the one that has clearly demonstrated their interest?

Getting dinged for "appearing desperate" seems so comical. We spend 3 - (far too many for me) years proving our worth as prospective physicians and at the pre-med finish line you're just supposed to play "hard to get"?
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Morgan Freeman Applause GIF by The Academy Awards
 
DilNyethescienceguy said:
Like, no **** I'm desperate, this is my life's dream - my bad for wanting to do everything within my power to make it come true?

For the sake of generalization, there is effectively no difference between an accepted applicant and a waitlisted applicant with regard to the admissions committee's interpretation of both candidates' ability to complete medical school. So, all else being equal between two waitlistees (I know, I know, rarely, if ever, is that the case) why not accept the one that has clearly demonstrated their interest?

Getting dinged for "appearing desperate" seems so comical. We spend 3 - (far too many for me) years proving our worth as prospective physicians and at the pre-med finish line you're just supposed to play "hard to get"?
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DilNyethescienceguy said:
This is tangential (and a point that I'm making to kill time at work) but I've never understood why "appearing desperate" is so frowned upon.

Like, no **** I'm desperate, this is my life's dream - my bad for wanting to do everything within my power to make it come true?

For the sake of generalization, there is effectively no difference between an accepted applicant and a waitlisted applicant with regard to the admissions committee's interpretation of both candidates' ability to complete medical school. So, all else being equal between two waitlistees (I know, I know, rarely, if ever, is that the case) why not accept the one that has clearly demonstrated their interest?

Getting dinged for "appearing desperate" seems so comical. We spend 3 - (far too many for me) years proving our worth as prospective physicians and at the pre-med finish line you're just supposed to play "hard to get"?
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I think the key is express your interest without going overboard. There is a difference between expressing genuine interest/continually following up as opposed to desperately begging the adcoms to admit you.

edit: really botched that formatting lol
 
MisterMukwa said:
I think the key is express your interest without going overboard. There is a difference between expressing genuine interest/continually following up as opposed to desperately begging the adcoms to admit you.

edit: really botched that formatting lol
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Yeah, I'm assuming none of yall are begging and sending LOIs to schools that explicitly state they do not receive post-interview updates.
 
Hello fellow WLers, I'm currently on 2 WLs and am taking a class right now purely in case I have to reapply. Definitely struggling with motivation since there's a chance I may not even need it (neither WL schools require it). Anyone else feeling this way and how are you handling it? Obviously know there's a good chance I'll have to reapply but it's still messing with me mentally.
 
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waitlisthelpplease said:
I appreciate the comments! Lol I guess I'd say I'm hoping to get pulled off a waitlist, yes. My goal is not necessarily to communicate I'm desperate -- though yeah, I'd really like to get pulled off a waitlist so I don't have to go through all of this again -- but rather to send some updates about some things that weren't already shown on my application. I don't think having high stats means there's nothing else I can add to my application. I'm sure my stats helped in getting me interviews, but as was alluded to, I would never expect to be a shoo-in at schools because of them. Therefore, my goal with update letters was to provide additional info about who I am and what I've been doing, as well as reaffirm my interest in the schools.

But don't worry, I didn't take any offense to your comments. I understand why I'd come off as desperate. I'm just frustrated but trying to be patient, wish for the best, and do what I can at this point.

If there's any school-specific advice people can give me, I'd appreciate it. I was waitlisted at WUSTL, Cornell, Pritzker, CCLCM, Ohio State, NYU, and Case Western.
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This my opinion only, no hard numbers/evidence, but I feel like WUSTL and NYU have low WL movement (NYU has such a small class size and high yield, and WUSTL interviews so many people and WLed everyone post-interview) and OSU has more waitlist movement would probably be pretty receptive to letters of intent. They seem to interview a lot of OOS high stat-ers who choose other schools. Have no idea about the other schools
 
DilNyethescienceguy said:
This is tangential (and a point that I'm making to kill time at work) but I've never understood why "appearing desperate" is so frowned upon.

Like, no **** I'm desperate, this is my life's dream - my bad for wanting to do everything within my power to make it come true?

For the sake of generalization, there is effectively no difference between an accepted applicant and a waitlisted applicant with regard to the admissions committee's interpretation of both candidates' ability to complete medical school. So, all else being equal between two waitlistees (I know, I know, rarely, if ever, is that the case) why not accept the one that has clearly demonstrated their interest?

Getting dinged for "appearing desperate" seems so comical. We spend 3 - (far too many for me) years proving our worth as prospective physicians and at the pre-med finish line you're just supposed to play "hard to get"?
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I KNOW RIGHT UGH THANK YOU
They want people who are sure they can sacrifice SO MUCH to pursue this path but ALSO not too desperate....? That's literally what they look for initially in their review, isn't it? Demonstrated commitment to the career? Desire to become a physician??

So we pour out everything in our applications about how dedicated we are to this and how much this means to us, and then at the end of it all, when we're left with no acceptances and face the possibility that we might never make it as physicians, we're supposed to just calmly wait and appear "not too desperate".. Like... no **** we're going to be even more desperate because, as the sentiment goes that so many physicians and schools keep voicing/encouraging--which I HATE--there's no other career we can imagine ourselves pursuing!!! There are just so many contradictions in this process I can't even...
 
I don't understand why schools won't tell you where you are on the waitlist. How does that benefit them? It just strikes me as them being so self important and uncaring. It leaves so many of us stressed for months on end (which is terrible for our health btw), and paralyzed, unable to make plans for our lives 3 months from now. Like we have lives....I have to tell my roommate whether I'll be moving out across the country and she needs to look for a new roommate, or if I can renew the lease with her.
 
I'm on 5 WLs. I'm waiting to hear back from 1 school and I have a last interview at a school soon. This is making me soo anxious. If I end up being on 6 or 7 WLs, is there a good shot I'd get in somewhere?

I really dread having to reapply. It would be absolutely crushing.
 
Ars227 said:
I don't understand why schools won't tell you where you are on the waitlist. How does that benefit them? It just strikes me as them being so self important and uncaring. It leaves so many of us stressed for months on end (which is terrible for our health btw), and paralyzed, unable to make plans for our lives 3 months from now. Like we have lives....I have to tell my roommate whether I'll be moving out across the country and she needs to look for a new roommate, or if I can renew the lease with her.
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Yup. It's a power move by sellers in a sellers' market. They do it because they can, with no consequence. The most applicant friendly schools are extremely transparent (so we all know it's not impossible to do), and that makes the process way more pleasant.

At the end of the day, though, it doesn't help those friendly schools at all with respect to yield if another school is half a spot higher in the rankings, if their match list is a smidge "better," or if they offer a dollar more in financial aid, so schools understand they can treat applicants as poorly as they want because, when it's all over, it's not going to hurt them at all in terms of filling their class with the "best" available candidates.
 
Ars227 said:
I don't understand why schools won't tell you where you are on the waitlist. How does that benefit them? It just strikes me as them being so self important and uncaring. It leaves so many of us stressed for months on end (which is terrible for our health btw), and paralyzed, unable to make plans for our lives 3 months from now. Like we have lives....I have to tell my roommate whether I'll be moving out across the country and she needs to look for a new roommate, or if I can renew the lease with her.
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Some schools want to maintain a certain makeup of their class, so I can understand a little when they don't give an explicit rank because they pull people off based on which applicant gives up their seat.

However, they should at the very least be able to tell you either how likely you are to get in off the waitlist or how much waitlist movement they're expecting in a given application year.
 
BigRed0017 said:
The thing that bothers me the most is there's really no hard and fast rules about the CTE deadline. AAMC says April 30th, but school can just makeup their own deadline too...Really unfair to waitlisted kids.
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But don’t people still have to have only one acceptance?
 
BigRed0017 said:
The thing that bothers me the most is there's really no hard and fast rules about the CTE deadline. AAMC says April 30th, but school can just makeup their own deadline too...Really unfair to waitlisted kids.
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YES!!!!!! I have been complaining about this ever since it was first introduced in 2019. So far, to no avail. Hopefully, some adcoms who participate on SDN are bringing up the issue with their peers and with AAMC, and maybe there will be an adjustment at some point in the future. My suggestion was to not allow it as a possibility until the end of May. That would allow the majority of WL movement to occur while everyone is still eligible to participate.
 
Julatteluver said:
But don’t people still have to have only one acceptance?
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Yes. The issue is, once your school makes you select CTE, your cycle is OVER, and you have to withdraw from all WLs. This very unfair to someone with an arbitrarily early CTE deadline, and for absolutely no reason other than having their only A be at a school manipulating a system to enable it to lock people in before they have an opportunity to maybe be called off a WL.
 
KnightDoc said:
Yes. The issue is, once your school makes you select CTE, your cycle is OVER, and you have to withdraw from all WLs. This very unfair to someone with an arbitrarily early CTE deadline, and for absolutely no reason other than having their only A be at a school manipulating a system to enable it to lock people in before they have an opportunity to maybe be called off a WL.
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I am actually very supportive of earlier CTEs because one consequence is a truncated application cycle. I understand your point as to why staggered CTE deadlines are unfair to some applicants but to be frank, wrapping up an application cycle on June 1 (earlier would be ideal) is far more humane than stringing the process out until mid/late July.

The issue ultimately boils down to why the central oversight entity, the AAMC, can't do its ****ing job and oversee the process they are profiting from. A strict enforcement of PTE/CTE at the oversight - not school-specific - level that concludes prior to the commencement of the subsequent application cycle (e.g., CTE by May 1) would address so many issues both applicants and schools alike face and would significantly improve the mental health of applicants.

Edit: I'm aware of the lawsuit that ultimately led to PTE/CTE but it's my understanding that lawsuit was targeted toward collusiveve practices that resulted from the AAMC's Multiple Acceptance Report (no longer exists thanks to the aforementioned lawsuit). How was the abdication of CTE (or whatever it was called prior to 2019) enforcement a result of all this?
 
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DilNyethescienceguy said:
I am actually very supportive of earlier CTEs because one consequence is a truncated application cycle. I understand your point as to why staggered CTE deadlines are unfair to some applicants but to be frank, wrapping up an application cycle on June 1 (earlier would be ideal) is far more humane than stringing the process out until mid/late July.

The issue ultimately boils down to why the central oversight entity, the AAMC, can't do its ****ing job and oversee the process they are profiting from. A strict enforcement of PTE/CTE at the oversight - not school-specific - level that concludes prior to the commencement of the subsequent application cycle (e.g., CTE by May 1) would address so many issues both applicants and schools alike face and would significantly improve the mental health of applicants.
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DilNyethescienceguy for President
 
DilNyethescienceguy said:
I am actually very supportive of earlier CTEs because one consequence is a truncated application cycle. I understand your point as to why staggered CTE deadlines are unfair to some applicants but to be frank, wrapping up an application cycle on June 1 (earlier would be ideal) is far more humane than stringing the process out until mid/late July.

The issue ultimately boils down to why the central oversight entity, the AAMC, can't do its ****ing job and oversee the process they are profiting from. A strict enforcement of PTE/CTE at the oversight - not school-specific - level that concludes prior to the commencement of the subsequent application cycle (e.g., CTE by May 1) would address so many issues both applicants and schools alike face and would significantly improve the mental health of applicants.

Edit: I'm aware of the lawsuit that ultimately led to PTE/CTE but it's my understanding that lawsuit was targeted toward collusiveve practices that resulted from the AAMC's Multiple Acceptance Report (no longer exists thanks to the aforementioned lawsuit). How was the abdication of CTE (or whatever it was called prior to 2019) enforcement a result of all this?
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You are 1,000,000% correct! You are also right about the lawsuit. Unfortunately, AAMC took it as a wake up call to remove itself from the process in order to try to insulate itself from any potential future liability.

I personally have no problem with allowing schools the flexibility to enforce or not, and to grant waivers or not. My problem is allowing schools to establish random deadlines that disadvantage some applicants but not all. This is an easy fix, since AAMC already controls when PTE/CTE is available, and precisely how it works. A common CTE deadline sometime at the end of May or anytime in June would work just fine.

To your main point, though, for all intents and purposes, the cycle really does end when the main round of musical chairs ends by mid May. All that's left after that is a few WL calls being made as people drop off at the last minute. While applicants might consider that being strung along, the alternative is facing the reality that the cycle is over, other than for a few very lucky people who are going to be called off the stand by list at the last minute and be allowed to enter. This HAS to be allowed to occur, because the alternative would be empty seats created by people who bail at the last minute for reasons having nothing to do with being called off a WL (sudden illness, illness of a relative, last minute opportunity of a lifetime, cold feet, etc.).
 
BigRed0017 said:
I think they say that, but it’s not enforced. No negative repercussions for not following the rules.
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After 4/30, this is, with very few exceptions, just not true. Every year people have As rescinded, sometimes with a warning, sometimes without. 100% depends on the school, but, for the most part, it is enforced. Schools need to know who is coming so they can manage their WL and finalize their class. Unless you are still waiting for FA info and the school gives you an extension, very few allow you to eff around with an acceptance after 4/30 without making a decision one way or the other.
 
KnightDoc said:
Yup. It's a power move by sellers in a sellers' market. They do it because they can, with no consequence. The most applicant friendly schools are extremely transparent (so we all know it's not impossible to do), and that makes the process way more pleasant.
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The only way a school can tell an applicant where they are are on a waitlist is if they have a ranked list.
Most schools choose an un-ranked list because they need the flexibility to re-balance a class (if possible) as there is no way to know who is coming and who is not.
 
KnightDoc said:
You are 1,000,000% correct! You are also right about the lawsuit. Unfortunately, AAMC took it as a wake up call to remove itself from the process in order to try to insulate itself from any potential future liability.

I personally have no problem with allowing schools the flexibility to enforce or not, and to grant waivers or not. My problem is allowing schools to establish random deadlines that disadvantage some applicants but not all. This is an easy fix, since AAMC already controls when PTE/CTE is available, and precisely how it works. A common CTE deadline sometime at the end of May or anytime in June would work just fine.

To your main point, though, for all intents and purposes, the cycle really does end when the main round of musical chairs ends by mid May. All that's left after that is a few WL calls being made as people drop off at the last minute. While applicants might consider that being strung along, the alternative is facing the reality that the cycle is over, other than for a few very lucky people who are going to be called off the stand by list at the last minute and be allowed to enter. This HAS to be allowed to occur, because the alternative would be empty seats created by people who bail at the last minute for reasons having nothing to do with being called off a WL (sudden illness, illness of a relative, last minute opportunity of a lifetime, cold feet, etc.).
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Sure, absolutely this is necessary as there are tremendous societal costs for each physician that's not trained. The solution is more responsible stewardship - enforced by way of standardized policy developed by AAMC and relevant stakeholders - of the waitlist; something analogous to what some schools already do (my favorite point made on this WL support thread was someone above just said something along the lines of 'if some schools can do it, then it's certainly possible). Specifically, there should be reasonably sized waitlists that are trimmed after that musical chairs period (some schools have a WL >/2.5x the positions they admit from it?!); upfront and honest communication about chances on the waitlist; and continuous monitoring of your exact position on the waitlist (I understand this last item is challenging with demographic matching).
 
gyngyn said:
The only way a school can tell an applicant where they are are on a waitlist is if they have a ranked list.
Most schools choose an un-ranked list because they need the flexibility to re-balance a class (if possible) as there is no way to know who is coming and who is not.
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So why not tiered waitlists or some other method of communicating general waitlist location? Even knowing which tier you're in on a waitlist goes a long way toward life planning and mental health.
 
snoo98 said:
This is just a rant but if schools historically accept only 40-60 people off a waitlist of 300+ people then what the heck is the point of putting more than 150 people on the waitlist in the first place? 😡
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To protect themselves. It gives them the safety net if somehow a significatly higher bunch of their accepted candidates turn down their positions.
 
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