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Any info on UMKC - MD-only Program?

Discussion in 'Allopathic School-Specific Discussions (<2018)' started by Dr.iz-n, Feb 14, 2007.

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  1. Dr.iz-n

    Dr.iz-n Member
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    Does anyone know anything about the MD-only program at UMKC? I checked out the website, and it looks like it is a program in which you enter at Year2 (remember, UMKC has the 6-year BA/MD program) and it is for people who already have a degree?

    Anyone know about MCAT score, minimum GPA, etc? Any info is helpful...
     
  2. NervousNed

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    UMKC generally is a program for highschool students to enter college in the 6 year md program. Spots only open up for people applying after undergraduate only if people drop out of their program. So therefor, there are not many spots at all at UMKC's med program for someone not coming right out of highschool. Also, its a bad program. They have had times where they have been on the verge of losing accreditation. 6 year MDBS program, your bound to lose something. If i were you, id apply elsewhere. :idea:
     
  3. xucardsfan08

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    Don't listen to NervousNed. I have never heard of the school ever coming close to losing their accreditation ever. All my aunts/uncles have graduated from their program and they are anesthesiologists/orthopaedic surgeons/radiologists. The school length is longer then a normal one, after year 2 it is practically year-round.

    But, it is hard to get into as class sizes are small to begin with in the 6-year program much less entering late.
     
  4. NervousNed

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    Just because this persons aunts and uncles have graduated from there, doesnt change that the school has come close to losing their accreditation. You wouldnt know this unless you spoke to the dean personally. He is speaking only out of pride, because his family has gone to the school. Take a large consensus when considering this school. I know many succesful people from UMKC as well, so what? You can be successful at any school.
     
  5. NonTradMed

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    Its' mostly for high schoolers, spots only open up after people drop out so I would not count on getting in. Also, I'm pretty sure you have to be a resident of MO in order to qualify (since it's a public school). I lived in MO for six years, I think you'll better off applying to the other schools in the state, or if you're a KS resident, go to University of KS SOM---better reputation and more of a traditional med school schedule.
     
  6. lilnoelle

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    I don't know much about the school other than what I've heard on SDN. Most of what I've heard on SDN is bad, however, I also know someone who did well at UMKC and is currently a glaucoma specialist with a well known group of Ophthalmologists here in Kansas City. He has never spoken badly about the program, so maybe its not as bad as everyone seems to indicate.

    If I were you, I'd call the school and see if you can get the email of some students there to find out more info about their experiences. Also, of course talk to someone who can give you some indications on how probable it is to get in part of the way through.
     
  7. mave

    mave Chill out, man.
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    High-achieving students from states with borders contiguous to Missouri may apply to the six-year program straight out of high school. I'd imagine that they only take in-staters for the open slots.

    I'll say this about the program: no matter how cllose they came to losing accreditation, it doesn't change the fact that it's not a very good program. Students who matriculate after their senior year of high school graduate with a B.S. in liberal arts - no actual major/concentration, just a very minimal curriculum. It's basically a trade school. Students start taking 22 credit hours (one of the people I went to high school with had multiple 24 CH semesters) around their third semester if they want out in three years. Most of the people I do know who have made it through (and that's quite a few) have graduated burned out and not really wanting to be a doctor anymore.
     
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  8. OP
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    Dr.iz-n

    Dr.iz-n Member
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    Wow--it's funny you say they are burned out at the end of it all. Isn't it inevitable that you'll be burnt out anyway as a first year resident with all of your new responsibilites? Yeah, it is messed up that they may be this way when they graduate, but some people who don't go through UMKC and go to a 4-year school end up being burnt out, or left not wanting to be a doctor after medical school or residency.

    I wouldn't necessarily put it on the program. I think the level of maturity is so low when students enter this program, and they are pushed to the brink of being a med student at 20, that they miss out on a lot of things. I guess maybe that's why they have an MD-only program for those people who quit while their ahead and give people like myself (who's finished college and a Missouri resident) a chance to break through.

     
  9. matt_mt19

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    So here's the deal -- UMKC is typically a school that students directly out of high school enter. It is clinically one of the strongest medical schools in the nation (coming from program directors at big name schools, just look at the match results). This programs attrition rate is significantly below national average. With that said the spots for MD-onlys do vary from year to year. With regard to accreditation. There has NEVER been a time where UMKC has been close to probation nor losing it. The last cycle UMKC received 2 years longer accreditation than what is typically given. The school is very stable, and thus you should not be concerned. Further the special consultant to the Dean at UMKC presided over the LCME (licensing council for medical education) for many years, and actually his license plate on his BMW says "LCME" if that tells you anything. Also this guy was the Dean at UMKC in the past... they aren't going anywhere. USMLE step 1 scores are right at national average, and step 2 scores are quite a bit higher than average as this school cranks out amazing clinicians. Further information or specifics feel free to PM me.
     
  10. happytograduate

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    You are incorrect about several points:

    "It is clinically one of the strongest medical schools in the nation"
    If it is strongest clinically, why is it not ranked highly on the Primary Care rankings of US World News and Report?? If what you say is true about program directors raving about UMKC's turnout of clinicians, this would have been reflected by the methodology used in the Primary Care rankings of medical schools: http://www.usnews.com/articles/education/best-graduate-schools/2008/03/26/medicine-methodology.html

    In fact, UMKC has opted out of the med school rankings, which should raise some eyebrows as to why a program that tauts such great clinical education, would not want to be ranked. In the university rankings, UMKC is in the third TIER, in comparison to other colleges.

    Also the match results are not really anything to be ecstatic about, as other schools have much better matches especially in highly competitive fields.
    Most students choose to stay in Missouri and and go into fields such as Family Practice, Internal Medicine, OB-Gyn.

    "This programs attrition rate is significantly below national average."
    You are also incorrect about attrition as Year 1 and 2 have a very HIGH rate of attrition. If you go to this article from April 2007: http://www.academicmedicine.org/pt/re/acmed/abstract.00001888-200704000-00010.htm;jsessionid=LbqVsL55Qr3BLvS76vkj0xwMtnJyWppTH5GfdWgrQjvx538CCMFs!-1858829228!181195628!8091!-1

    To quote it, in case you don't have access to the full article: "As might be expected, the attrition rate in this school is higher than those of traditional four-year medical schools. Of all 3,377 students admitted at year one from 1970 through 2005, 20.6% left the program without the MD degree."


    "There has NEVER been a time where UMKC has been close to probation nor losing it."
    You are incorrect about this as well. If you go here: http://www.aapsonline.org/judicial/truman.htm apparently the school was close to losing its accreditation in Spring 1997.

    "USMLE step 1 scores are right at national average"
    While this may be the case now, this is because the school recently instituted a 3.0 Science GPA (then dropped down to 2.8 as too many people in the class would have been held back one year due to inability to achieve the 3.0 requirement). Also, students have to not only have a 2.8 Science GPA but also pass an NBME mock board in order to even be allowed to register. Those that do not get a certain score on the NBME exam are not allowed to register. Hence, there are several hoops to jump through before a UMKC student is allowed to take boards. This is because in the past, the board failure rate was very high.

    To say that scores are at the national average implies that the curriculum is conducive to preparing students well for the USMLE Step 1, which is simply untrue. In fact, a majority of the class ends up enrolling in costly commercial preparation courses for Step 1 which are usually taken by IMGs as most medical students do not need to enroll in a separate course to prepare. If fact, most med students take it a month or two after basic sciences is completed, unlike UMKC in which students get a full year to prepare after basic sciences is over. But even then, the UMKC average is only at the national average. You can imagine the UMKC average if students had to take it within two months of finishing basic sciences like everyone else.

    Just wanted to set the record straight and have people get the full story.
     
  11. MO454

    MO454 Junior Member
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    It's clear this guy has something personal against UMKC. The deal with the 6 year program is that the first 2 years you do your undergraduate and the last 4 is just like regular medical school. The drop rate is lower during the first two years than most other undergraduate programs. You have to compare apples to apples. Then when you look at the people who begin the last four years (when you begin the medical portion (MD) of the BA/MD program) the drop rate is better than the average medical school. By just calculating drop rate, you are adding people who drop from the BA portion (where the majority of people drop out) + the MD drop rate. So your math isn't completely accurate.

    Furthermore, your assertion that everyone at UMKC takes a commercially available USMLE test prep course is simply not true. From being a student here, I would say about 3-5% do.

    The match says it all. Check out the posted link to which residencies and where people get in every year. It's clear that UMKC students do fine. I'm not sure why this guy is trying to paint UMKC in poor light, it's a good school and you'll do as good on the boards if you work hard, just like everyone else in medical school. The students are smart, they work hard, and end up being good doctors. For the students who go to the six year program (which I did not, I'm and MD only), you miss out on a few things that you would get in a normal undergrad education. But these things aren't necessary life skills and believe it or not, the students at UMKC are down to Earth, smart, hard working people who end up doing fine in life.
     
  12. RunwayModel

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    You obviously are not a six year BA/MD student - hence showing your ignorance. For students in the BA/MD program many of the science courses they take (both at the undergrad and medical school level) count as requirements for their Bachelors degree.

    Students, beginning in their second year of the 6 year program, are already taking science courses of the medical school curricula so the attrition rate IS VERY accurate as the first 2 years at UMKC are not all undergraduate classes as you incorrectly assume or purposefully leave out. Also the dropout rates are quoted from the article directly and aren't "calculated". This is basic stuff from the UMKC med school website.

    Where did you get the 3-5% number from? Is that your "guess"? At least the post (above yours) used links.

    Your only experience is from applying after a Bachelors, which obviously wasn't too good, if you ended up at a low-tier, unranked Midwest med school (not surprised by your pitiful MCAT). However, almost all the students are six year BA/MD students not normal applicants who take the MCATs and finish a Bachelors.

    "For the students who go to the six year program (which I did not, I'm and MD only), you miss out on a few things that you would get in a normal undergrad education. But these things aren't necessary life skills" --- Not only is this pure idiocy, as you're commenting on something you have no experience of (the BA/MD program - which you admit, luckily), if you think a full normal 4 year, undergraduate education gives no necessary skills, and can be condensed to two years with no consequences, you are definitely Cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs.
     
    #12 RunwayModel, May 27, 2009
    Last edited: May 27, 2009
  13. rocketbooster

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    woahhh, you need to calm down hahaha. every US MD school essentially leads you to the same place. a med student from NYU Med doesn't have much of an advantage over someone from Drexel Med. your education is what you make of it. it's not like law school where the school's rank matters.

    also, match lists are not indicative of anything. it's poor judgement to use schools' match lists to choose one school over another. each match listed is based on that individual's work, test scores, etc. the school is not the one who got that person the match. the individual student got the match. you can get into the top residencies from any US MD school.

    I have a few friends in the UMKC 6-year program. I haven't heard anything bad about it. My friend told me it's stupid to apply there for the regular MD program since, like everyone said, they simply place you after Year II. There's no advantage going to UMKC whatsoever if you do that. Clearly, all you did was waste 2 more years in undergrad since they did you no good by not placing farther along into the UMKC curriculum than Year II.

    I personally think the 6-year over 8-year program is a scam anyway because the only reason you finish 2 years earlier is because you barely get any breaks. You get 3 2-week breaks or something per year and that's it. I'd much rather spend 2 more years in undergrad. It's a lot of fun. :thumbup: I also think undergrad provides invaluable growth in maturity and experiences that you definitely miss out on by doing a 6-year program. Just to name an easy example: studying abroad. There's no way you could ever study abroad if you're in a 6-year program.

    You're going to become a good doctor from the UMKC program, though. It doesn't matter what US MD school you go to.
     
  14. RunwayModel

    RunwayModel Member
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    Don't assume things by putting words in my mouth. Where do I talk about match lists in my post above? Considering you're just a premed, it's obvious your complete lack of knowledge on the relationship between the medical school and the match, if you have even gotten into medical school (which by your post shows you probably are not)

    But since YOU brought it up, you can look at several of UMKC match lists YOURSELF and judge about what quality programs UMKC people are able to match into. Everyone has board scores, grades, etc. It's what you are able to accomplish at your medical school (once again dependent on whether you med school has those opportunities - leading back to rank) and how known your med school is to program directors. If it's not, you're expected to have your application even more perfect, than those who go to better schools (who get a little slack). You really think a six year program, like NEOUCOM, will have the same opportunities as NYU? If so, I have a ski resort to sell you in Egypt.

    You will learn soon enough, as you seem to be naive, that in the match, where you go to school does matter for certain programs in getting interviews esp. highly sought after programs. Does UMKC give a U.S. LCME accredited degree? Yes. No one said it doesn't. Of course, that's not the only aspect of the picture, and I NEVER said it was, but it is a bigger factor than you think. But let me be clear: The MEDICAL SCHOOL YOU GO TO DOES HAVE AN EFFECT ON GETTING AND DURING INTERVIEWS.

    Also, I would not be surprised if your friends are only in the first and or second year of the program, so how is that relevant when during those years you still do take some undergrad courses? NYU and Drexel are actual highly ranked schools so yes there would be no difference. How does that pertain to UMKC? You are comparing apples and oranges. UMKC is nowhere in the league of NYU or Drexel (it's actually not even on the rankings)

    "I have a few friends in the UMKC 6-year program. I haven't heard anything bad about it." ---- So what? You think they are going to tell you the bad things of the program that they would now be unlucky enough to be stuck in?
     
    #14 RunwayModel, May 30, 2009
    Last edited: May 30, 2009
  15. henrietta1985

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    Most of the students here seem to have a huge chip on their shoulder about the fact that UMKC is not really a very nationally recognized program. Additionally, I can't say this about every student at UMKC, because I don't know all of them, but I have met countless truely horrible, selfish, complaining, ungrateful people in my class. Not everyone, but I would say a very large percentage of the kids in my class have parents who are physcians, and many of these kids were forced or "highly" encouraged to apply to medical school. I know a few who actually verbalize this and say they dont want to be doctors but their parents make them attend. There are some good ones, but most don't have a clue about what it means to take care of someone else before yourself. Its sad really, and is not what I expected medical students to be like. My class might just be especially immature, im not sure. Most of them seem to have no life and study 18 hours a day. I put in about 2-4 hours a day maybe and my life honestly is pretty stress free. I actually have way more free time now, than I did when I worked full time, granted this will change with residency. I am here because it was the only medschool I got into, but I am still happy about it and am grateful every day to be here.

    For future MDonly applicants, I would reccommend going somewhere else if you get in (which most do anyways), but if you do end up coming here just try and remain positive and only vent on SDN. The classes and tests arent too bad, I really like the professors, the staff is very helpful. Kansas city and midwest cities in general are pretty aweful compared to coastal ones, so beware if you aren't from the midwest and have never been here. The only people ive met who think it is awesome are the people who grew up here, which makes sense. Kind of like battered wife syndrome or something......Also, the clinicals are actually very good, and I get to do alot more stuff independently than my friends at several other medschools around the country in equivalent years.

    Disclaimer: The above statements are opinions. I understand that fellow medstudents with chips on their shoulders might feel the need to defend every last comment of my opinion, and if you need to, thats fine. I understand that peoples view of the school differs, because people are different.
     
  16. fiorios

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    Why is this person so angry at the world? Out of control aggression. Curious about their specialty - I would not want anyone in my family to see this person...yikes.


     
  17. Old Grunt

    Old Grunt 2000 yard stare
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    The OP (who has obviously moved on) specifically asked about the MD Only program, not the 6-year program, which people seem to be very opinionated on (specifically a small, but dedicated cadre of SDN posters).

    For future searches from people who are actually interested in this program, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to give you my thoughts on the matter as I am an MD-Only here and have no problem with shooting people straight.

    As I did not do the combined program, I can't really comment on that aspect of UMKC. Especially when it comes to "comparison shopping" between different combined programs.

    The school has it's strengths and weaknesses. In general, I can say I have been happy here (and, yes, I did have other options at accredited MD programs in the lower 48). Most of the anecdotes/exaggerations I have seen about UMKC on this and other sites don't even remotely come close to what I have experienced. The school is not Harvard or Yale, and it never claimed to be. What it is, is a state medical school that focuses more on clinical medicine than research (in fact, if serious research if what you are interested in, I would advise you to look elsewhere). However, I have no real desire to debate this issue with people who seem to have their own agendas (whether for or against the school) and aren't considering the school as an option.

    Two more things I am more than happy to correct. I am not sure where this moronic "the school is about to lose it's accreditation" talking point comes from. The school has been fully accredited by the LCME at every review it has had. The most recent one was from this an LCME visit from this previous October which accredited the school for 8 more years, which was just announced this week (not that anyone was sweating this. My lord, LCME accreditation is a minimal standard). Though, no doubt, the "the school is about to loose it's accreditation and the sky is falling!" talking point will persist in spite of that.

    Finally, the class of 2012 had an average Step I score that was a few points over the national average and a pass rate of 95%, which again beats the national average.
     
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    #17 Old Grunt, Dec 3, 2010
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  18. Old Grunt

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    That's not true. In my MD Only class, we had people from all over the country. Most of us were from Missouri, but it wasn't a criteria for admission.
     
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  19. Old Grunt

    Old Grunt 2000 yard stare
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  20. Old Grunt

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    It looks like the entering class is going to be significantly larger (at least two times) than previous classes. I am not sure if this is unique to this year or more permanent but will put the details here as I find them out.
     
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  21. mark3524

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    I spoke with admissions not that long ago and they said it is something like 20-23 students admitted this year. They haven't really figured out yet how they are going to handle space with this many students according to the person I spoke with over the phone but she said they do have a new docent in addition to the current MD docent.

    Btw, is there an official page for MD students starting in 2012?

    Oh and Old Grunt, can you PM me? I have some questions for you. Thanks!!!
     
  22. WorldChanger36

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    I don't know why UMKC is such a battle ground but whatever. It is a good program, it just has a different way of getting people started. Majority of people start in undergrad through the BS/MD program but it does make space for about 10 to 20 people to apply regular MD each year. The grand majority of these people are instate or have very strong ties to the state. Every know and then someone out of state with on ties gets in but this is rare. You don't apply to this program via AMCAS but directly through the program. Go to the school website for more information and contact the school for a better understanding. Remember while SDN does have lots of good information the sourse ( the school itself) is the best place to gain a good understanding of what you are looking for. Start with a google search and go from there.
     
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  23. DrIBProfen

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    I just created a new Facebook page intended for accepted UMKC MD-only students to join. I'll add anyone who'd like to be added.

    (I'm double posting this message in two threads)
     
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    #23 DrIBProfen, Nov 16, 2011
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  24. Old Grunt

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    Here is the match list for this year:
    http://www.med.umkc.edu/sa/match.shtml

    All the MD Only students matched and they matched into Derm, Anesthesiology, Rad/Onc, General Surgery, Orthopedic Surgery, and Emergency Medicine.
     
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  25. aSagacious

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    Moving to the school-specific discussions forum.
     
  26. Old Grunt

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    Thanks.
     
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