BCOM vs LUCOM vs Caribbean

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BCOM, LUCOM, Carib

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SailorMoon1991

SailorMoon1991

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Hi everybody!

Longtime lurker here and I'm currently at a huge crossroads in my life and I am just trying to get more opinions and get a feel of different opinions. I have been accepted at BCOM, LUCOM, and Saint George a while ago. Out of these which one do you do you think is the best school to go to and why? I have been putting down deposits for all of them but it has simply been too much money wise, so now I have to pick a school. Here is some of my pro's and cons.

A little about me: I have lived in South eastern USA all my life. Family is important to me and I have a significant other at home also in graduate school in the area, whom I can see spending the rest of my life with. Going away for four years is going to be very difficult as we will have separate lives. This makes me very afraid, but I'm going to be a doctor no matter what.

BCOM

+ good rotation sites
+residencies placed up
+ curriculum better, in my opinion.
+/-diverse student body, who are very excited. Will this cause over-competitive people?
+/- new school. I know it will have new school problems, but I also get to make the school my own.
-FAR away and different area than I am used to. I will have to uproot my life and start new and live without my family and sig. other. Being close to them is very important to me, but my dream comes first.


LUCOM
+closer to my loved ones. While still far, I can still drive for longer weekends.
+ established class, older than BCOM, but still new. Will not have difficulties of being the first class.
+/- student body seems less diverse than the other two looking out, but not completely sure.
? religious aspect. I consider myself liberal and somewhat atheist. I do not mind this and feel like I will get along regardless. That being said I have read about incidents where this might collide with my education.
-rotation sites don't seem that great IMO, but I could be wrong.

St George
+much more established than the other two
+ I know people here. This makes life easier to adjust for me, gives me an established support system, and able to live without my loved ones during this time.
+/-MD, but I know this does not matter
-Yes I know all the carib horror stories.

In your opinion, what would you choose and why? Will my education be the same no matter where I go? This is the most important aspect for me when choosing my school And please do not turn this into an angry thread, I just want a proper discussion.

If any current students can chime in that would be great. Also if anyone has pros or cons I did not think of please post them here.

Thank you!
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PS- How do you politely tell schools you are not going to their school. Email? is it a brief email? a long lengthy one? And when should I do it?
 
Tough call

If family/friends and tuition are high priority factors, then you should consider LUCOM.

If you want a different environment and a school that has a seemingly good basic science/clinical education laid out, then consider BCOM.

Don't go Caribbean, even if it is SGU.
 
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Does LUCOM have access to public loans? If so, that's another factor to consider if you don't like the idea of taking out private loans.

Edit: For the withdrawal thing, I pretty much used: "I regret to inform the admissions committee that due to an acceptance at another medical school, I must withdraw my acceptance from this school. I wanted to thank the admissions committee for taking the time to review my candidacy and wish them all the luck in the future".
 
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I'm all about people going to the school that's the best "fit." However, Caribbean is just a bad idea. The ones who make it through are all pretty good docs imo, but they face a lot of problems in the match no matter how competitive they make themselves.

Also, ever notice that in these "xcom vs ycom" threads that someone will always post on behalf of every school? That is except lucom. I know they're an overly religious institution, but I think they still believe in the Internet. No one who goes to lucom or has interviewed there ever says anything that convinces someone to go there. Even LECOM gets some love from half of its students (well deserved love in my opinion, but that's another thread). It's almost like the people attending there who lurk these boards are thinking "Good point. This place is weird."

I thought about taking an acceptance because it would be near some of my family, but I realized that seeing my mom once a month isn't going to make me a better doctor. Go to the place that will.


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There are no Bcom grads and there are no LUCOM grads. For Bcom, you can rest assured that you won't have much hindrance in the way of decent clinical rotations but don't get starry eyes over this "600 ACGME residency spots" everyone keeps rattling about. For one, it's over a 5-10 year development timeline so your chances of experience all the GME is unlikely and secondly it's 600 spots total, not just pgy1 spots. I would def consider the fact that you can't borrow from the federal aid a down side. If you suddenly die, a private loan will look to your nearest relative to get that money back. Federal loans are forgiven if you happen to pass away and the repayment plans are second to none at this moment. A positive for Bcom however is it's affiliated university and the ability to get involved in strong research (co-investigation in cancer research currently going on with NMSU and Fred Hutchinson)

LUCOM, thought having a bad rap here on SDN, has federal aid, has decent clinical clerkships and has shared GME already in place. I do not know how it will fair when their first class graduates. I'd like to see where they end up matching.

As I've said before, going to the Caribbean is never a good idea unless you like the idea of either not matching for residency at all or matching into a prelim year and having your medical career abruptly end when you find out you don't match the following year(s). When you're sitting on more than half a million dollars of debt from private banks who could really care less about your situation, you will probably be sad.

It's between Bcom and LUCOM, I'd choose LUCOM to play it safe financially.
 
AlteredScale said:
I would def consider the fact that you can't borrow from the federal aid a down side. If you suddenly die, a private loan will look to your nearest relative to get that money back.
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As someone who refinanced my student debt with private sources for a much lower rate, tacking on a life insurance policy was dirt cheap and good piece of mind to prevent such things from happening.
 
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My opinion (others will disagree):

MD > non-LUCOM DO > LUCOM > Caribbean

I personally WOULD go to LUCOM if left with no other DO options...but I would not go Caribbean.
 
@IslandStyle808 @YorkH @samac @Dr Tony T. Chopper @Ho0v-man @AlteredScale @Biofilm @WingedOx @adrian710 @j4pac

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I will now cross out SGU. However, one last question, will the quality of education I receive from these institutions be more or less the same? The reason I say this is because of the fact that BCOM will NOT have cadaver labs, something that seems important and is present in almost every other medical school for BCOM and the incident posted on this site prior, the fact that married with children get to choose clerkships first at LUCOM.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lucom-pros-and-cons-from-current-students.1133917/page-3

The utmost importance to me is quality of education. Both sites have new top of the line facilities and the staff seem great. Their curriculums seem very solid, although they seem to both have difference. Since they are new, would you rate them the same education wise? Do both schools have potential for me and their grads to go into any field we want? Does the two years of students LUCOM have make a big difference? or none at all?
 
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BCOM for the win :woot: good clinical rotations can really impact your education and LUCOM's seem iffy even in comparison with other DO programs
 
WingedOx said:
As someone who refinanced my student debt with private sources for a much lower rate, tacking on a life insurance policy was dirt cheap and good piece of mind to prevent such things from happening.
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As sad as this sounds, that life insurance policy may not cover suicide from mental health disorders. I know some residents who passed away from OD'ing on drugs.

Plus, those life insurance companies will do anything they can NOT to pay your claim. Whatever case it may be, your family may have to deal with a lot of legal costs and fight tooth and nail to get paid.
 
Of all those choices, I would probably go to BCOM, but only if I have potential financial support just in case bad things happen.

Without ANY financial support from family, spouse, etc, I'd probably go LUCOM for the federal loans and that extra sense of financial security.
 
I have read a lot about cadaver labs in pre-clinical education and they do give insights to the human body, however it is overrated. Medical students current/former have stated that what they have seen in their surgery rotations is much different than what was seen in the cadaver lab. So you are not really losing out by not having it. The reason for BCOM's approach is to focus more on imaging that is used in hospitals (CT scans, MRI etc.). It seems like a novel approach to anatomy and I like the fact that it gets people used to looking at imaging.

If I were in your shoes, I would pick BCOM in terms of education. They are using a systems based curriculum (modified version) created by TCOM and was extremely successful in raising RVUs scores (now being implemented at KCU). Their "potential" clinical rotations seem solid. I really like the fact that the rotations in Las Cruces will have GME in place (also avoids the problem of dropped rotations seen with far away rotations). The one unknown fact not brought up is that the El Paso hub has University Medical Center. This is the primary teaching hospital for the Texas Tech residents, so there is GME there (as to how many rotations will be done their is unknown). LUCOM has some GME in certain hospitals, but most are family medicine residencies (and one internal medicine residency). So they are lacking in the GME category.

Overall I believe BCOM is the better choice when looking at overall education.
 
SailorMoon1991 said:
@IslandStyle808 @YorkH @samac @Dr Tony T. Chopper @Ho0v-man @AlteredScale @Biofilm @WingedOx @adrian710 @j4pac

Thank you for your thoughtful responses. I will now cross out SGU. However, one last question, will the quality of education I receive from these institutions be more or less the same? The reason I say this is because of the fact that BCOM will NOT have cadaver labs, something that seems important and is present in almost every other medical school and the incident posted on this site prior.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lucom-pros-and-cons-from-current-students.1133917/page-3

The utmost importance to me is quality of education. Both sites have new top of the line facilities and the staff seem great. Their curriculums seem very solid, although they seem to both have difference. Since they are new, would you rate them the same education wise? Do both schools have potential for me and their grads to go into any field we want? Does the two years of students LUCOM have make a big difference? or none at all?
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This was a bonus to me for BCOM , actually. They're going to have a cadaver lab, but you won't be doing much of the dissections. You'll do enough to learn the important part and move on. The rest will be medical imaging. I can tell you after working with docs across all kinds of specialties, most of them aren't very anatomy savvy (with the exception of people who specialize in surgical and certain procedural subspecities but even then they just know everything about a small area). From what I've heard, most of Europe is moving toward a similar model.

I've talked with several med students who've stated anatomy is a giant time suck because if his long you have to spend dissecting. Others love it though and find it invaluable. I do remember from the BCOM interview them saying that you can use an elective rotation for just more gross anatomy if you do choose.

Keep in mind that I have a pretty decent anatomy background already (although I'm sure med school will make me think otherwise lol) and I'm not too fond of spending all day cutting fat just to get to something I could have memorized in 30 seconds. I was also a fan of LECOM-SH virtual anatomy also, but I think a hybrid model like BCOM would be best for me.

I will say that I'm in a minority on this issue. I think I might have a change of heart if I was interested in anything surgical, but I doubt it.

All the best!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
TallPreMed said:
If you consider yourself liberal/atheist then going to LUCOM would feel like riding a bike. In hell. With demons chasing after you. And you covered in gasoline.
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In my opinion the staff and student body of LUCOM are very kind and tolerant of other ideas. There have been things posted that say otherwise, but the experience I had and what most of the other students who have posted here support this. Although, that being said, while I am sure I would have no problem finding and making connections with students and staff, it is true I would be an environment where I am constantly faced with religion.


IslandStyle808 said:
. LUCOM has some GME in certain hospitals, but most are family medicine residencies (and one internal medicine residency). So they are lacking in the GME category.
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@IslandStyle808, in your opinion, if I go to LUCOM, will I pretty much be heading more towards primary care as opposed to BCOM.

@Goro - May I have your opinion? You have stated that you would not recommend any of these school, but out of these options, which would you choose and why?
 
Lol. BCOM and it isn't even close. Carribean is where you go if you can't get accepted multiple cycles. Even then I wouldn't go there.
 
SailorMoon1991 said:
In my opinion the staff and student body of LUCOM are very kind and tolerant of other ideas. There have been things posted that say otherwise, but the experience I had and what most of the other students who have posted here support this. Although, that being said, while I am sure I would have no problem finding and making connections with students and staff, it is true I would be an environment where I am constantly faced with religion.

@Goro - May I have your opinion? You have stated that you would not recommend any of these school, but out of these options, which would you choose and why?
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@Goro has repeatedly said he would not recommend LUCOM. Every other DO school would be fine.
 
Eventhough I am not big on LUCOM. But I recommend you to go to LUCOM over BCOM. Never take private loan when you don't have too; private loan never give you security compare to federal loan; and private don't have IBR which is a huge downside.
 
SailorMoon1991 said:
@IslandStyle808, in your opinion, if I go to LUCOM, will I pretty much be heading more towards primary care as opposed to BCOM.
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No matter what school you go to you can still match into a specialty. For instance, KYCOM is very devoid of GME, but somehow the one guy matched into radiation oncology (an ultra competitive specialty, I am still trying to comprehend how he "dunit"). Well, this person is an extremely special case....

It is just that residency programs like students who have an understanding of how to function as an intern. This is gained by rotating with residents. The more you have of this more you understand the responsibilities of being a resident. This helps a lot especially when doing audition rotations for competitive programs. It is still possible to specialize no matter what school you go to, but it helps give you the leg up if you rotations have GME associated with them.
 
Go to my profile page, and look at post for Aug 7, 2014

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/members/goro.334945/

and on top of that, an LUCOM student reports a ~10% attrition rate for the Class of 2018, with ~15 out of 161 having to repeat the first year. This is 2-10x the normal rate for any med school in the US. I dread what their first time COMLEX pass rate will be.



SailorMoon1991 said:
@Goro - May I have your opinion? You have stated that you would not recommend any of these school, but out of these options, which would you choose and why?
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Just go in eyes open that:

"1) a specialty" doesn't mean "the specialty you want to go into".
2) the typical DO grad has a 33% chance of specializing (it's 80% for MD schools grads from Albany to Yale).
3) A number of residency sites are closed to DOs, period. Although, I'm glad to see, that the glass ceiling is cracking at some places.
4) Grads from a new school will have a hard time (not impossible) getting into a residency program simply because their schools are unknown quantities. Med schools serve as feeders to residencies in the same way that UG schools feed into med schools.


No matter what school you go to you can still match into a specialty. For instance, KYCOM is very devoid of GME, but somehow the one guy matched into radiation oncology (an ultra competitive specialty, I am still trying to comprehend how he "dunit"). Well, this person is an extremely special case....

It is just that residency programs like students who have an understanding of how to function as an intern. This is gained by rotating with residents. The more you have of this more you understand the responsibilities of being a resident. This helps a lot especially when doing audition rotations for competitive programs. It is still possible to specialize no matter what school you go to, but it helps give you the leg up if you rotations have GME associated with them.
 
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FYI BCOM curriculum though similar to KCU is def not the same. RVUs curriculum as well has been altered a bit. This is because the makers and leaders of the curriculum have all moved to kcu nd have since evolved and changed how its implemented. I don't know if the lack of a cadaver lab is that big of a deal but for me, there's no way in hell I would have learned cardiopulmonary and currently GI anatomy looking at a gigantic iPad with the essential anatomy app. The three dimensional visualization in connections with the ability to actually observe variation across cadavers is imo a very important tool and a reason DO and MD schools keep it in their curriculum (but now implement it with new technology as well). If BCOM does in fact have private loans that are forgiven upon specific tragic events then that's a good thing.
 
What is @Goro 's said concern with BCOM?

as a side note, there still is a cadaver lab and students have option of doing a 1 on 1 elective doing gross anatomy with a preceptor
 
I am NOT a fan of doing digital dissections or even worse, watching prosection on YouTube or media.
An SDNer relayed to me some disturbing behavior that the dean engaged in when said SDNers was interviewing. n =1
For profit school leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't have a bias against them per se for them being a NEW school.

Dustbowl12 said:
What is @Goro 's said concern with BCOM?

as a side note, there still is a cadaver lab and students have option of doing a 1 on 1 elective doing gross anatomy with a preceptor
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Also, to OP, do extensive research on your own. SDN has extreme hate against LUCOM and extreme love for BCOM, and sometimes for silly reasons.
The only thing for sure is never go Carribean
 
Dustbowl12 said:
Also, to OP, do extensive research on your own. SDN has extreme hate against LUCOM and extreme love for BCOM, and sometimes for silly reasons.
The only thing for sure is never go Carribean
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I would say that I've seen both sides for BCOM...extreme love and extreme hate. LUCOM seems to get more extreme hate, but there are several who also love it. LUCOM gets most of its hate due to its extreme conservative Christian nature.

People who are matriculating to BCOM obviously will defend the school....I believe it's the same with LUCOM.
 
BCOM, for sure. I personally know of 3 people who have left SGU with nothing.

Also, this forum is unnecessarily hard on BCOM. As they were on RVU. I met with local physicians in Las Cruces (MDs at the hospital) and they were all very supportive. I also spoke to a faculty member at a highly regarded DO school, and this person had high praise for their colleagues who are now at BCOM. This individual expressed great expectations of BCOM in the future. Of course it will be a rocky road. I feel that the school could have better communication with its students. For example they're starting coursework right now, and a lot of people are kind of upset about that. Turns out what they're trying to do is expedite their eligibility for federal funding by getting students to start early. It's clever. Anyways, I'm digressing. I just want to give you some reassurance that BCOM wont be as bad as its made out to be on these forums. Congrats on getting into med and having the opportunity to pursue the career of your dreams!
 
drsmpc said:
BCOM, for sure. I personally know of 3 people who have left SGU with nothing.

Also, this forum is unnecessarily hard on BCOM. As they were on RVU. I met with local physicians in Las Cruces (MDs at the hospital) and they were all very supportive. I also spoke to a faculty member at a highly regarded DO school, and this person had high praise for their colleagues who are now at BCOM. This individual expressed great expectations of BCOM in the future. Of course it will be a rocky road. I feel that the school could have better communication with its students. For example they're starting coursework right now, and a lot of people are kind of upset about that. Turns out what they're trying to do is expedite their eligibility for federal funding by getting students to start early. It's clever. Anyways, I'm digressing. I just want to give you some reassurance that BCOM wont be as bad as its made out to be on these forums. Congrats on getting into med and having the opportunity to pursue the career of your dreams!
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I believe BCOM would potentially be an excellent school.
 
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Being close my family is a huge factor in deciding what school to go to. This is a tough one but like I said before I feel like you can't go wrong with either. lucom is a great program and BCOM seems ( I say seem because no one knows yet) that it will be as well. Where do you see yourself living ? What school did u fit in with more? Ask yourself these questions. Do you see yourself in New Mexico? Chances are you may go to residency there. Do SELF reflecting ...
 
Our standard should be higher than this, hundreds have interviewed there, lets say 80-90 of them are on SDN, and only one person who was rejected has one alleged event and that's all it takes?

The Dean was clear and open about everything, and challenged interviewees to ask him tough and direct questions.

As for the virtual anatomy, Western COMP and UM MD and other schools are shifting over to virtual cadavers. BCOM allows you to do a one on one elective with a cadaver if you want, much better than a 4-6 student on 1 body ratio cutting through fat IMO.
 
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Dustbowl12 said:
Our standard should be higher than this, hundreds have interviewed there, lets say 80-90 of them are on SDN, and only one person who was rejected has one alleged event and that's all it takes?

The Dean was clear and open about everything, and challenged interviewees to ask him tough and direct questions.

As for the virtual anatomy, Western COMP and UM MD and other schools are shifting over to virtual cadavers. BCOM allows you to do a one on one elective with a cadaver if you want, much better than a 4-6 student on 1 body ratio cutting through fat IMO.
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Since n=1, take that with a grain of salt.

After all, there are ALWAYS two sides to every story. It is also, the internet. Don't believe everything you read on here.
 
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1. @Goro - Forgive me, I have looked a few days before and after, but I cannot seem to find the particular post you seem to be referring to. What was the general idea of it? Also, do you think it will be likely BCOM will undergo similar attrition rates its first year? I ask this because it seems LUCOM has implemented strategies to help provide a solution to this.
Goro said:
Go to my profile page, and look at post for Aug 7, 2014

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/members/goro.334945/

and on top of that, an LUCOM student reports a ~10% attrition rate for the Class of 2018, with ~15 out of 161 having to repeat the first year. This is 2-10x the normal rate for any med school in the US. I dread what their first time COMLEX pass rate will be.
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2.
Dustbowl12 said:
What is @Goro 's said concern with BCOM?
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For other readers, the answer to this question is ...

Goro said:
I am NOT a fan of doing digital dissections or even worse, watching prosection on YouTube or media.
An SDNer relayed to me some disturbing behavior that the dean engaged in when said SDNers was interviewing. n =1
For profit school leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't have a bias against them per se for them being a NEW school.
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3.
Dustbowl12 said:
Also, to OP, do extensive research on your own. SDN has extreme hate against LUCOM and extreme love for BCOM, and sometimes for silly reasons.
The only thing for sure is never go Carribean
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@F#&$#^&&@theMCAT

I would like to thank you and everyone else in this thread for your thoughtful responses. I have done research, and tried to present my way of thinking as best as I can. However, like I said before, I am just trying to see some different opinions and possibly learn about some aspects that I have not considered before. For example, I did not even consider the loan programs put in place.
 
Goro said:
I am NOT a fan of doing digital dissections or even worse, watching prosection on YouTube or media.
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Yeah, I think too many people underestimate the value of an actual dissection. We do actual dissections at my school and have virtual dissector software we can use to supplement our knowledge if we want. I know, at least for me, if I had to rely on an atlas, an iPad app, and virtual dissector software, exams would be an awful lot harder. For me, spending time in the lab is the best way to cement structural relationships in my mind.
 
IslandStyle808 said:
I have read a lot about cadaver labs in pre-clinical education and they do give insights to the human body, however it is overrated. Medical students current/former have stated that what they have seen in their surgery rotations is much different than what was seen in the cadaver lab. So you are not really losing out by not having it. The reason for BCOM's approach is to focus more on imaging that is used in hospitals (CT scans, MRI etc.). It seems like a novel approach to anatomy and I like the fact that it gets people used to looking at imaging.

If I were in your shoes, I would pick BCOM in terms of education. They are using a systems based curriculum (modified version) created by TCOM and was extremely successful in raising RVUs scores (now being implemented at KCU). Their "potential" clinical rotations seem solid. I really like the fact that the rotations in Las Cruces will have GME in place (also avoids the problem of dropped rotations seen with far away rotations). The one unknown fact not brought up is that the El Paso hub has University Medical Center. This is the primary teaching hospital for the Texas Tech residents, so there is GME there (as to how many rotations will be done their is unknown). LUCOM has some GME in certain hospitals, but most are family medicine residencies (and one internal medicine residency). So they are lacking in the GME category.

Overall I believe BCOM is the better choice when looking at overall education.
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You make a couple great points. Although RVUCOM is a relatively new, for profit school, I believe it is one of the best in the business. Board scores, its curriculum, and the preparedness of its students are all through the roof and only the most ignorant posters out there will continue to pick at it for its for-profit status.

With that being said, I'm still a bit confused about DO clinical clerkships in years 3 and 4; hopefully you can help explain. Because DO schools are not affiliated with major hospitals, it is my understanding that its students have to more or less "scramble" for rotations. I keep hearing that you can either rotate with residents through a teaching hospital (the ideal setting), rotate at a community hospital?, or rotate with preceptors? (are these physicians that don't mind having you tag along in their private practice or something?) All of the aforementioned might be wrong. What are the various options one has for rotations and which are the best/worst scenarios hierarchically?
 
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drsmpc said:
BCOM, for sure. I personally know of 3 people who have left SGU with nothing.

Also, this forum is unnecessarily hard on BCOM. As they were on RVU. I met with local physicians in Las Cruces (MDs at the hospital) and they were all very supportive. I also spoke to a faculty member at a highly regarded DO school, and this person had high praise for their colleagues who are now at BCOM. This individual expressed great expectations of BCOM in the future. Of course it will be a rocky road. I feel that the school could have better communication with its students. For example they're starting coursework right now, and a lot of people are kind of upset about that. Turns out what they're trying to do is expedite their eligibility for federal funding by getting students to start early. It's clever. Anyways, I'm digressing. I just want to give you some reassurance that BCOM wont be as bad as its made out to be on these forums. Congrats on getting into med and having the opportunity to pursue the career of your dreams!
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Wait a second, accepted students right now..before the schoo is even completely built are being required to start their course work right now?? How does that even work?

BCOM won't be terrible and I believe it. But it sure isn't going to be God's gift to NM. It just gets on my nerves when I see posts that act as if BCOM is just this innovative and cutting edge medical school meant to impact the world. virtual anatomy isn't new. Their curriculum isn't new. A simulation lab isn't new (UCSD has an entire sim dedicated for cutting edge surgery, and every medical school has SP's and sim dolls). Their research isn't new (they aren't bringing in faculty with NIH grants, they are hitching a ride on NMSU for research), their clinical rotations aren't new or "amazing"...it's hospitals are community hospitals (so you probably won't be seeing a variety of pathology and you won't experience working in a level I trauma medical center). It's tbh, like any other new DO school that's come up and hell, even the MD side is taking up on it with Cal NorthState (which when you google map the school, is literally in a industrial/commercial area. It's a white early 2000's commercial buiding).

Do you know what's impressive? An extension campus of OUHCOM of 50 students from the region of Ohio whose school is WITHIN Cleveland Clinic South Pointe where their clinical training starts (with academic faculty and residents fy) the first week they arrive.
 
Teioh said:
You make a couple great points. Although RVUCOM is a relatively new, for profit school, I believe it is one of the best in the business. Board scores, its curriculum, and the preparedness of its students are all through the roof and only the most ignorant posters out there will continue to pick at it for its for-profit status.

With that being said, I'm still a bit confused about DO clinical clerkships in years 3 and 4; hopefully you can help explain. Because DO schools are not affiliated with major hospitals, it is my understanding that its students have to more or less "scramble" for rotations. I keep hearing that you can either rotate with residents through a teaching hospital (the ideal setting), rotate at a community hospital?, or rotate with preceptors? (are these physicians that don't mind have you tagging along like in a private practice or something) All of the aforementioned might be wrong. What are the various options one has for rotations and which are the best/worst hierarchically?
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DO schools do their best to rotate their students at hopsitals with GME (these are termed "teaching hospitals"). Hospitals with GME can eiher be academic (termed a university hospial) or community (the other ones around not affiliated with a school). Older DO schools have had time to establish their partnerships with community hospitals and have been able to build GME to essentially expand teaching and education at community hospitals that did not have it prior to. There will be rotation sites that wil be a mix between hospitals with residents or hospitals where you precep with just an attendingand it may also be at some small clinic as supposed to a real hospital. So the choosing of a site that is majority inpatient and with residents is ideal because it's not about you getting all the experience doctoring ("Oh I was first assist here nd delivered 30 babies myself because it was just me and a doc" is not something a program director is impressed with since you are supposed ot learn all that in residency when you're you know...a doctor in training). It's about you learning how the hospital works, how a resident team works and how to work LIKE A RESIDENT (since you will spend the next 3-7 years as a Resident physician). Learning How to round and how to present a patient on rounds is vital.

Worst would literally be having to set up your own rotations (which some schools like LECOM-B "allow" you to do) which ends up being cold calling doctors and asking to precept them. The quality of your exposure in that rotations coud literally be you following a doctor who does HOUSE CALL (Im not joking, I had a friend whose medicine block was that). That's totally unaccetpable.

You'll see a lot of this "wards-based" term going around. Wards based means working at hospitals with residents ALREADY at the medical center (not "we are devloping GME at this hospital so its wards based clinica training"). Preceptor based means exactly what it says: you go aread with a preceptor. FYI not downing peceptor based as im sure it's great for rotations in primary care. But should not be acceptable for the majority of your medicine rotation, your surgery rotation, or your ObGyn rotations.
 
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Unfortunately, not all schools have 100% access to teaching hospitals, even if they're in places where the students have to travel to. Thus, at some schools, students are more likely to simply follow preceptors around (like shadowing pre-meds), and get shorted on being able to actually "do stuff".

This is, I feel, contributes to the stigma of a DO education, much more than the claims of OMM/OMT.

My students are fortunate enough that we have their bases covered, and the residency directors that we send them to (at least, the ones who answered our polling) think that my kids are as well trained as MD grads.



AlteredScale said:
DO schools do their best to rotate their students at hopsitals with GME (these are termed "teaching hospitals"). Hospitals with GME can eiher be academic (termed a university hospial) or community (the other ones around not affiliated with a school). Older DO schools have had time to establish their partnerships with community hospitals and have been able to build GME to essentially expand teaching and education at community hospitals that did not have it prior to. There will be rotation sites that wil be a mix between hospitals with residents or hospitals where you precep with just an attendingand it may also be at some small clinic as supposed to a real hospital. So the choosing of a site that is majority inpatient and with residents is ideal because it's not about you getting all the experience doctoring ("Oh I was first assist here nd delivered 30 babies myself because it was just me and a doc" is not something a program director is impressed with since you are supposed ot learn all that in residency when you're you know...a doctor in training). It's about you learning how the hospital works, how a resident team works and how to work LIKE A RESIDENT (since you will spend the next 3-7 years as a Resident physician). Learning How to round and how to present a patient on rounds is vital.

Worst would literally be having to set up your own rotations (which some schools like LECOM-B "allow" you to do) which ends up being cold calling doctors and asking to precept them. The quality of your exposure in that rotations coud literally be you following a doctor who does HOUSE CALL (Im not joking, I had a friend whose medicine block was that). That's totally unaccetpable.

You'll see a lot of this "wards-based" term going around. Wards based means working at hospitals with residents ALREADY at the medical center (not "we are devloping GME at this hospital so its wards based clinica training"). Preceptor based means exactly what it says: you go aread with a preceptor. FYI not downing peceptor based as im sure it's great for rotations in primary care. But should not be acceptable for the majority of your medicine rotation, your surgery rotation, or your ObGyn rotations.
Click to expand...
 
Goro said:
Unfortunately, not all schools have 100% access to teaching hospitals, even if they're in places where the students have to travel to. Thus, at some schools, students are more likely to simply follow preceptors around (like shadowing pre-meds), and get shorted on being able to actually "do stuff".

This is, I feel, contributes to the stigma of a DO education, much more than the claims of OMM/OMT.

My students are fortunate enough that we have their bases covered, and the residency directors that we send them to (at least, the ones who answered our polling) think that my kids are as well trained as MD grads.
Click to expand...
Ive heard of precepting but I've never heard of someone actualy getting trouble with being able to do stuff in the experience!!!
 
When asked why LUCOM, I wonder what the grads will answer (other than "it was the only school I got into"), because patients familiar with liberty will assume LUCOM is ranked just above Bob Jones University College of Osteopathic Biblical Healing & Medicine.
 
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