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CBSE advice for OMFS residency
- Thread starter Itsnotludwigs
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deleted923283
Start now, because you are going to need every spare minute you can manage to squeeze out between dental school obligations. You need to know (memorize) everything in First Aid; how you accomplish that is up to you. Some like Sketchy, some like Pathoma, some just read the book. However you do it, it needs to be done.
Some say you need a 65 minimum. That's like a DAT 18 ("You might get in somewhere this round"). 70 CBSE is maybe like a DAT 20 ("good chance you probably get in somewhere"). From what I've read and heard, you need to hit near 75 CBSE to be "assured to get in somewhere", let's call that DAT 22 equivalent. Disclaimer: I have not applied to OS programs yet, so I defer to anyone else with more experience on the trail.
I remember when I first started studying for the CBSE - you strategize and make a goal score. By the end though, it's a meaningless exercise - you just do the best you can. It's like someone who has never run a marathon, strategizing what their mile splits will be for the whole race. You'll see, you have 26 LONG miles left to go, and you have no idea what's coming for you. When you finally start nearing the finish line, the clock says what it says, you're just glad you're finished and you made it.
But it's good you're thinking about it now - you'll need that motivation to get you through. Stay sane, my friend, sane and healthy!
Some say you need a 65 minimum. That's like a DAT 18 ("You might get in somewhere this round"). 70 CBSE is maybe like a DAT 20 ("good chance you probably get in somewhere"). From what I've read and heard, you need to hit near 75 CBSE to be "assured to get in somewhere", let's call that DAT 22 equivalent. Disclaimer: I have not applied to OS programs yet, so I defer to anyone else with more experience on the trail.
I remember when I first started studying for the CBSE - you strategize and make a goal score. By the end though, it's a meaningless exercise - you just do the best you can. It's like someone who has never run a marathon, strategizing what their mile splits will be for the whole race. You'll see, you have 26 LONG miles left to go, and you have no idea what's coming for you. When you finally start nearing the finish line, the clock says what it says, you're just glad you're finished and you made it.
But it's good you're thinking about it now - you'll need that motivation to get you through. Stay sane, my friend, sane and healthy!
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deleted923283
Are you D1? There's strategy in timing as well. @Likkriue is a bit of a celebrity - he took the CBSE in August between D1 and D2. Pros: You get it done before school gets really difficult, Cons: He probably had to teach himself everything before dental school even touched on it. February D2 is a great date for a goal. August at the beginning of D3 is also a good time. Just start studying now, and eventually the timing will work itself out.
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While I agree you “need to memorize First Aid” it isn’t all that high yield when it comes to getting more questions right. Get as far through whichever question bank you like emphasizing on understanding the explanations. A good starting point is going through your schools medicine and path resources again to refresh
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You want to shoot as high as you can! You have to study for this like your are studying for step 1. That’s the key to success. It’s way more difficult for us because we aren’t taught the way these medical students are. They spend 2 years before tackling step 1, which in all fairness is much harder(from what Os residents have told me), while we barely touch the material.
The more questions you do the better, some questions are recall, some questions require you to think 2-3 steps ahead.
futuredentist0023
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Depends on how much of a base you have. I did 3 months with the last 2 months being dedicated(12 hours a day).
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Do you mind telling us how you did?
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Check the August 18th cbse thread I have my breakdown there.
I had 6 weeks break during summer and basically stopped studying for some of my dental school Courses to focus on the cbse. Basically I had to sacrifice my summer.
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Cool, thanks, I didn’t remember seeing it there when I read it before. That’s impressive man, good job. I’m planning on doing the same thing this summer, we have pathology May through July with only clinical rotations and then a 6 week break. Hopefully I can pull off something similar haha.
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There are threads that go into this but I'll give you the jist of it from my perspective. Most residents will agree with with this.
- I've added my personal level of importance to each (score out of ten).
- I did not have a med school integrated curriculum, studied for 6m with UWorld, FA, Pathoma, Sketchy and scored 80+.
Main Resources
UWorld: focus on understanding the questions, rather than the score or total number of questions. Annotate in FA as you go along. (10/10)
First Aid for Step I: Use it as your guide as you go through UWorld and Pathoma videos. (10/10)
Pathoma: Just watch all the lectures. Some you'll have to watch multiple times. (8/10 - annotated in FA; never used the text book provided)
(The goal is to have FA as your centralized resource for all annotations from UW and Pathoma. That way you're not flipping through multiple books looking at the same info.)
Supplemental Resources
Sketchy Micro: I know they have a bunch more stuff now, but the micro part of it has been critical for many people. (8/10 - game changer for me)
USMLE Step I Secrets: Q&A style approach that some may find helpful. (6/10)
Comprehensive lecture series : Doctors In Training, Kaplan, etc. Some people found this useful. (5/10)
Anki: Some flashcard software thing. (2/10 Not a fan of flashcards)
Golijan: More path lectures. Some people swear by it. (-/10 I never tried it)
Also, "65+" really should not be the goal at this stage; some people will disagree with me on this. The CBSE has been implemented as a part of the application process for a while now and scores of matched applicants is trending up. A 65 does not correlate to a pass on the Step 1 anymore. 70 should be the minimum goal. Sure some people will match with a 66 or a 68, but you'd be fighting an uphill battle in most circumstances.When I was interviewing a couple years ago most applicants I met on the trail were 75+. Good luck.
Step 1 is not "harder" just alot longer. Also I'd say 8/10 people come out if it almost certain they failed. It just drains you more than the CBSE. I'd describe Step 1 questions like UW questions on steroids. It was fun.
- I've added my personal level of importance to each (score out of ten).
- I did not have a med school integrated curriculum, studied for 6m with UWorld, FA, Pathoma, Sketchy and scored 80+.
Main Resources
UWorld: focus on understanding the questions, rather than the score or total number of questions. Annotate in FA as you go along. (10/10)
First Aid for Step I: Use it as your guide as you go through UWorld and Pathoma videos. (10/10)
Pathoma: Just watch all the lectures. Some you'll have to watch multiple times. (8/10 - annotated in FA; never used the text book provided)
(The goal is to have FA as your centralized resource for all annotations from UW and Pathoma. That way you're not flipping through multiple books looking at the same info.)
Supplemental Resources
Sketchy Micro: I know they have a bunch more stuff now, but the micro part of it has been critical for many people. (8/10 - game changer for me)
USMLE Step I Secrets: Q&A style approach that some may find helpful. (6/10)
Comprehensive lecture series : Doctors In Training, Kaplan, etc. Some people found this useful. (5/10)
Anki: Some flashcard software thing. (2/10 Not a fan of flashcards)
Golijan: More path lectures. Some people swear by it. (-/10 I never tried it)
Also, "65+" really should not be the goal at this stage; some people will disagree with me on this. The CBSE has been implemented as a part of the application process for a while now and scores of matched applicants is trending up. A 65 does not correlate to a pass on the Step 1 anymore. 70 should be the minimum goal. Sure some people will match with a 66 or a 68, but you'd be fighting an uphill battle in most circumstances.When I was interviewing a couple years ago most applicants I met on the trail were 75+. Good luck.
Step 1 is not "harder" just alot longer. Also I'd say 8/10 people come out if it almost certain they failed. It just drains you more than the CBSE. I'd describe Step 1 questions like UW questions on steroids. It was fun.
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How did you get started studying? Did you sit down and power through first aid, memorizing as you go? I’m finding it hard to learn from first aid as it is just a billion bulleted facts one after another without any context.
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Yea UWorld and FA can turn your brain into a pretzel at the start. Totally normal. Your brain is being bombarded by things its never even considered before. As time goes by you'll be so happy you have this foundational knowledge.
This is what I recommend:
- Do UWorld questions (in tutor mode) making sure you read the explanations. It should take a long time to just do like 10 questions. Don't focus on doing a bunch of questions in one sitting but rather getting a good understanding of the concepts being covered.
- Start Pathoma ASAP Pathoma is critical to building a foundation of basic science/pathology that most dental schools will not provide. You will need this. He's a fantastic lecturer. Annotate in first aid as you watch the lectures. Concepts in UW will start to become more clear. Its all about repetition. Dont expect to grasp all the concepts after watching a Pathoma lecture once. There were some I watched like 6-7 times. It will get frustrating when you review a topic in the morning and think you have it down only to totally forget wtf is going on by the end of the day. It's ok. Throw a couple inanimate objects around in your room for stress relief.
- Micro is a big topic for the CBSE and the Step I. Sketchy Micro will have you covered for that, so do not fret. Once you watch the videos, they will be easy points on the exam.
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Really appreciate the help! Seriously, starting with Pathoma whil annotating in first aid is something I hadn’t considered.
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U world, Kaplan and usmle-rx
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Did you read FA a couple times before starting UW? Or did you immediately hop into questions and refer back to FA every time you got a question wrong?
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No. Some people did that. I started by watching Pathoma videos and doing UW questions. FA would be open to the pertinent sections while i did both of those. Used the same approach when I studied for the Step 1.
Just use UW. Its essentially the gold standard. Don't overwhelm yourself with multiple qbanks. UW had more than enough questions.
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Anyone use boards and beyond? I’ve read in a few places that for non Med school dental schools it can be a big help. Any experience?
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I used to get a nice solid base that first aid won’t teach you. His explanations are great.
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First of all, almost no medical student in my class actually goes to class. The lectures teach towards the boards. So course material and Step 1 resources are all one in the same. So they all study at home using the following resources. This is great because it means that you as a dental student are given the same opportunity and resources to do well on this exam without having to go to medical school. For example, instead of going to class in medical school, I just watched boards and beyond videos.
First Aid (textbook): Every word is to be memorized
Boards and Beyond (videos): If your dental school wasn't integrated to a medical school, you need this video resource to teach you the concepts that you don't understand from First Aid. Otherwise, you will expend an excessive amount of time and energy looking up concepts on Wikipedia. I didn't have this resource when I was studying for the CBSE but I wish I did because it would have saved so much time. These videos cover everything especially what Pathoma leaves out.
Pathoma (videos): Same as Boards and Beyond and it does a decent job at explaining pathology but it is limited to only pathology
Sketchy Micro (videos) : Medical students swear by this to memorize and recall microbiology. I unfortunately did not have this resource when I was studying for the CBSE
UWorld (question bank): Absolutely necessary to do all of the questions. Reading and working through USMLE questions is a skill all on its own requiring you to understand what the question stem is, what the writer of the question is trying to test, dissecting the diagnosis and then either the treatment, SE, or etiology. These are almost always multi-layered questions that are really testing you on multiple topics per one question. It's almost never just questioning your rote memory. You need to do UWorld questions as you're studying.
First Aid (textbook): Every word is to be memorized
Boards and Beyond (videos): If your dental school wasn't integrated to a medical school, you need this video resource to teach you the concepts that you don't understand from First Aid. Otherwise, you will expend an excessive amount of time and energy looking up concepts on Wikipedia. I didn't have this resource when I was studying for the CBSE but I wish I did because it would have saved so much time. These videos cover everything especially what Pathoma leaves out.
Pathoma (videos): Same as Boards and Beyond and it does a decent job at explaining pathology but it is limited to only pathology
Sketchy Micro (videos) : Medical students swear by this to memorize and recall microbiology. I unfortunately did not have this resource when I was studying for the CBSE
UWorld (question bank): Absolutely necessary to do all of the questions. Reading and working through USMLE questions is a skill all on its own requiring you to understand what the question stem is, what the writer of the question is trying to test, dissecting the diagnosis and then either the treatment, SE, or etiology. These are almost always multi-layered questions that are really testing you on multiple topics per one question. It's almost never just questioning your rote memory. You need to do UWorld questions as you're studying.
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You absolutely need boards and beyond to save hours of trying to fumble through wikipedia only to come out with a very weak grasp of what's going on. Boards and Beyond is essentially your medical school experience as a dental student studying for the CBSE. This is a resource that you want to use because memorizing First Aid without any understanding of what's actually going on is incredibly frustrating.
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If I told you there were two ways to go about something where one route takes [x] amount of time and another takes >1.0*[x] amount of time to achieve the same end, it’d be apt to take the more efficient route. Having gone through this process of studying for CBSE/Step 1 twice, I can tell you one route is surely easier than the other.
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How did you encorporate it in your study? Did you go through it before getting into questions? Do questions along side of it?
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deleted659902
kind of surprised that no has mentioned dr najeeb lectures here. vids are long but worth the time to really hone in on specific concepts
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I did it whenever I felt like I needed a physio review.
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When do you recommend starting to study for the test?
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There is no answer to that question, so don't be under the impression someone on these forums is going to give a magic number regarding the number of months to study.
There are too many factors to consider. Just start studying and you'll have an idea of how much (or how little) you know. Titrate to effect.
As a general overview:
D1-2: Crush dental school classes; Occasionally shadow at local OMFS dept/hospital.
D2-3: Study hard/smart for CBSE and crush it (70+). Start to look into/apply for externships
D3-4: Prepare application + Do externhsips (~5weeks is a good amount)
D4: Interviews & Match.
PGY1...
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deleted913442
Hey guys, quick question!
So I am starting to lay a schedule out for this summer. I am a D1 and plan on taking it in August. Luckily, I have 2.5 months of summer break and roughly 8-9 weeks between the last class I take and the CBSE
I plan on doing Boards and Beyond videos and follow along them while doing First Aid, as well as UWorld after I finish a section in First Aid (with it's necessary supplements)
My questions are:
-Is it smart/okay to do Sketchy micro, Sketchy pathology, and sketchy pharmacology in replace of those sections in first aid? I am trying to utilize my time as best as possible and do not think I can do all of these. Which are more high yield?
-Also, with regards to pathoma, do I watch those videos on pathoma and find them in first aid and take notes there? Why is pathoma so crucial if First Aid has all the diseases we need to know?
OVERALL: I am trying to figure out how to supplement the sketchy's and pathoma with first aid.
So I am starting to lay a schedule out for this summer. I am a D1 and plan on taking it in August. Luckily, I have 2.5 months of summer break and roughly 8-9 weeks between the last class I take and the CBSE
I plan on doing Boards and Beyond videos and follow along them while doing First Aid, as well as UWorld after I finish a section in First Aid (with it's necessary supplements)
My questions are:
-Is it smart/okay to do Sketchy micro, Sketchy pathology, and sketchy pharmacology in replace of those sections in first aid? I am trying to utilize my time as best as possible and do not think I can do all of these. Which are more high yield?
-Also, with regards to pathoma, do I watch those videos on pathoma and find them in first aid and take notes there? Why is pathoma so crucial if First Aid has all the diseases we need to know?
OVERALL: I am trying to figure out how to supplement the sketchy's and pathoma with first aid.
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In my opinion, reading first aid is extremely boring and inefficient until you're at a point where you at minimum recognize every concept in the book. You won't know what's important and what's not. I recommend your workflow look something like this : Boards and beyond + Sketchy Micro/Pharm+pathoma--> review with Anki cards ----> practice questions --> review specific concepts in first aid as needed.
I would skip sketchy path. I personally thought the videos were wayyy too long. Pathoma is fantastic because he explains concepts in an easy way to understand and remember. You really won't understand or retain much just reading the overview of the disease in first aid. As far as taking notes in first aid I would recommend doing it at any point in the workflow so that when you do go through first aid all important info is in there already.
Source: Scored mid 80s with this strategy
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deleted913442
Really appreciate this! Thanks a ton and I am definitely going to do something along those lines. Do the Boards and Beyond videos come with power points to follow along with it? I can't find anything if it does (haven't purchased yet as I am waiting until summer). If not, thoughts on taking notes in First Aid while watching Boards and Beyond?
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Boards and Beyond does have powerpoints to download. He also cites the pages of First Aid pertaining to each video so annotating while you watch is a good idea.
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Can anyone speak from experience about how good a gauge the NBME/CBSSA forms were, compared to your CBSE score? And if so, can you throw out some numbers, like maybe exact numerical discrepancies between your scores on either? Doesn't have to be your actual score, just the ~discrepancies~ Thanks!
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It’s been a few years since I took these exams but they were pretty accurate, especially the newer forms, within 2 points. I was practicing with these forms, doing one a week for the last few weeks of studying. Got 78 on the cbssa a week prior to my exam. On the real one, I got an 80.
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Did you find the questions to be the same style? Like are the CBSSA's a better representation of the difficulty, compared to UW? Also, I DM'd you another question just about more specifics, so i dont clutter this **** up.
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deleted923283
I'm planning to write a full review of my studying with materials and form scores etc. (I believe @Likkriue might also be planning something similar) - I'll write it up soon as we get the August scores back.
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deleted923283
If I recall correctly, there is definitely a high-yield anatomy section in First Aid. Anatomy is part of the exam. UWorld also covers anatomy. Anatomy is very low yield, so most people don't put too much focus into it.
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Anatomy at the beginning of each organ system + UW anatomy (cause they seem to have great hand anatomy q’s which seem to be fairly high yield for some)
God I’m praying for a CBSE with minimal or basic anatomy. It’s hard to study for IMO, like biochem. I understand it and a week later I forget details lol. I wouldn’t focus on anatomy alone. You get a feel for what’s high yield by doing q’s
Thanks so much!!! Also, if I’m using Boards and Beyond, what topics did you all listen to? And same for Pathoma? There are so many videos.
And I’m praying for that too...anatomy is sooo hard to study for and was definitely my worst subject in dental school. Biochem I feel similarly, but it’s a little easier to study for...less drawing than anatomy haha
And I’m praying for that too...anatomy is sooo hard to study for and was definitely my worst subject in dental school. Biochem I feel similarly, but it’s a little easier to study for...less drawing than anatomy haha
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I definitely did not watch every single Boards and Beyond video, I’d watch chunks of them
If I needed review on a subject. More like a reference resource than for primary learning. They’re really good but he goes into way more detail than needed for a 70 or even an 80, so don’t feel like you need to slog through the whole thing. Watch a relevant video when you get a UWorld question wrong, for example.
Hanumankrupa72
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Hello guys , I am taking CBSE in coming February. Anyone who is preparing for it ?
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Sameeee
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Would you suggest studying alongside the other classes that you are taking alongside dental school and then go hardcore for 1-2 months?
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would those who have taken the CBSE recommend doing all the old NBMEs or just the ones currently available for purchase on the NBME site?
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UWorld itself + SA1 & SA2, along with 2-3 NBMEs is plenty. Resource overload is real and taking a single NBME takes 5 hours before reviewing. UWorld’s explanations are much higher yield than googling your incorrects on an NBME, because they connect things together unlike a Wikipedia page. Use them as they’re intended: to be exposed to the real question style and to evaluate your progress. Don’t think that taking more NBMEs will boost your score as much as doing more UWorld will cause I don’t think there’s much evidence it will.
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would you say there was any correlation between either of your uworld SAs and your actual CBSE score? were your NBME scores closer?
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I jumped 10 points from my NBME average on SA2 3 days before the test, then scored one point lower than that on the really thing. Some people score lower on the real thing, but from all the threads I‘ve read, most go up.
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Agreed. I started a few months ago thinking I’ll go through ALL NBME’s that exist. After a few of the ones without answers I quickly gave up. Definitely UW1/2 and the NBME’s that have official answers for (20-24,18). You don’t even know how frustrating it is to try to figure out hard NBME’s that are hella hella tricky and some of the keys out there have mistakes in them.
Don’t overdo q’s because you’ll do them just to get through and you wanna make sure you get in good habit of thinking every question through. When I make mistakes esp on NBME’s now 5 weeks out I usually get them wrong cause I don’t think every single option through. It takes a lot of focus to go through 200 times questions and go through all 4-5 options.
Practice questions are great for test day but in the end you’ll be tested on what you memorized (FA for most people) so imo i would always focus on reviewing and learning that book. Not flying through all these q’s or even reading random fragmented facts from UW. Key I think is getting up to speed to be able to cover 1-2 systems per days the weeks before the exams. That way you have everything everything fresh on your exams and it’ll connected. Not just a bunch of random test questions.
Don’t overdo q’s because you’ll do them just to get through and you wanna make sure you get in good habit of thinking every question through. When I make mistakes esp on NBME’s now 5 weeks out I usually get them wrong cause I don’t think every single option through. It takes a lot of focus to go through 200 times questions and go through all 4-5 options.
Practice questions are great for test day but in the end you’ll be tested on what you memorized (FA for most people) so imo i would always focus on reviewing and learning that book. Not flying through all these q’s or even reading random fragmented facts from UW. Key I think is getting up to speed to be able to cover 1-2 systems per days the weeks before the exams. That way you have everything everything fresh on your exams and it’ll connected. Not just a bunch of random test questions.
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I totally agree with your thoughts on content review @fit2, just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing out on some fundamental aspect of CBSE prep. As far as there being official answers for NBME forms 18 and 20-24, are you referring to the highlighting NBME does when you get an answer wrong? You haven’t found official explanations for the answers, right?
