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Chances of matching IM, derm, or peds residency?

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Mal.Assezia

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-DO student
-Top 20% of my class
-Getting A's in most of my 3rd year rotations (might get 1 or 2 B's)
-Can get some really great letters of recommendation
-But I messed up on step 1 because I thought doing questions wasn't necessary (idiot):
-222 USMLE step 1
-599 COMLEX level 1
-Planning on taking PE in Feb
-Planning on taking USMLE and COMLEX 2 in June
-Been doing decently on my COMAT shelves (~ 115 for most of them)

I'm torn between IM, Peds, Med/Peds, and I know it's a long and probably impossible shot but.. Derm. What are my chances of matching in maybe competitive Peds programs like Cleveland Clinic, and matching in general in the others? I feel like I've been learning the material well, doing lots of questions and getting most of them right, and think that I can do well on step 2. Any advice on any of this would be really helpful and appreciated.
 

Ibn Alnafis MD

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With your numbers your chances look like Peds>IM>>>IM/Peds>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Derm

Honestly, I wouldn't waste time, money and effort on Derm. If I were you, I'd focus on peds since you are aiming for reputable academic programs.
 
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Mal.Assezia

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I'll defer to more knowledgeable current students but from my understanding of having several family members who are in residency, one at a ACGME derm, I'd say derm is indeed a long shot. Audition rotations might be the most important variable here. How well people like you, how hard you work, etc. Do you have any ancillary app stuff? Publications, research, etc? I can't speak to the other specialities but I'd say from talking with my derm resident family member that those scores, especially USMLE, are just simply not competitive enough for derm. 240+ is a better range. But i wish you the best of luck in all honesty.

I am doing research now (not yet published), and I did research in undergrad (not sure if that counts). I'm in the Big Brothers Big Sisters program and I'm mentoring a "little sister" in the community. I teach health and English to kids in refugee camps in the Middle East during my summers and also volunteer at free clinics in those refugee camps. I've also gone on a summer medical mission trip to Honduras. I write articles for an online column in my spare time. Every attending and resident I've spent time with has said and written really sweet and wonderful things about me and I think that I'm pretty well-liked by my preceptors. I guess now I'm wondering what my chances would be for super competitive peds or med/peds if I scored incredibly high on step 2, or if step 1 score is the only/major determinant.

I suppose I don't reeally want to do derm, I just hate being told that I can't do something :smuggrin: And it's frustrating because I know I'm smart and I know I'm capable, but that stupid number... Thank you so much for answering though! :)
 

Brorthopedic

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Doesn't really matter what your extra-curriculars are, you shot yourself in the foot with that step 1 score.
 

Ibn Alnafis MD

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Doesn't really matter what your extra-curriculars are, you shot yourself in the foot with that step 1 score.
Unfortunately this is true.

From talking tmany students who have gone through the application process, it is obvious to me that the top two factors that determine one's chances of landing an interview are boards and who you know.
 
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IslandStyle808

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Unfortunately this is true.

From talking tmany students who have gone through the application process, it is obvious to me that the top two factors that determine one's chances of landing an interview are boards and who you know.

Would doing audition rotations be in the category of "who you know"?
 
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Ibn Alnafis MD

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Would doing audition rotations be in the category of "who you know"?
Yes, definately. Especially for specialties that require hands-on and team work skills (EM and surgery come to mind), auditioning and impressing the attendings/residents is very valuable. However, boards still take the lion share as many programs have very strict cut-offs.

With that said, if your dad's best friend is the PD of surgery at Mass General, then all other parts of your application become irrelavent.
 
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Mal.Assezia

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Big bro big sis is a great organization. Also whether or not your extra stuff gets you into Cleveland clinic I can't say, but I can say that i think it's amazing you're doing all of that and I will be proud to call you a colleague. Congrats on your success.

Thank you, I appreciate that! :)
 
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IslandStyle808

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Yes, definately. Especially for specialties that require hands-on and team work skills (EM and surgery come to mind), auditioning and impressing the attendings/residents is very valuable. However, boards still take the lion share as many programs have very strict cut-offs.

With that said, if your dad's best friend is the PD of surgery at Mass General, then all other parts of your application become irrelavent.

Your last scenario is pretty much what I have come to know as "who you know." The first scenario is what I figured.

In other words, the audition rotation moves you up a notch in terms of quality of program, but doesn't make the rest of your application irrelevant. However, the second scenario can definitely make the other parts of your applicant irrelevant (but then again doesn't always happen).

Thanks for clearing that up.
 

Ibn Alnafis MD

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Your last scenario is pretty much what I have come to know as "who you know." The first scenario is what I figured.

In other words, the audition rotation moves you up a notch in terms of quality of program, but doesn't make the rest of your application irrelevant. However, the second scenario can definitely make the other parts of your applicant irrelevant (but then again doesn't always happen).

Thanks for clearing that up.
Exactly.

On my OBGYN rotation (at a hospital that is highly sought after by DOs and IMGs), two DO students were auditioning. Both, equally, did their absolute best performance to impress the residents and the attendings. They showed up an hour before and left an hour after everyone else. They both were well-read and ready to answer pimping qs. Both went the "extra miles" in an effort to shine. However, only one was subsequently offered an interview and that student wasn't the one who scored 450s on COMLEX.
 
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ghiblijiang

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Yes, definately. Especially for specialties that require hands-on and team work skills (EM and surgery come to mind), auditioning and impressing the attendings/residents is very valuable. However, boards still take the lion share as many programs have very strict cut-offs.

With that said, if your dad's best friend is the PD of surgery at Mass General, then all other parts of your application become irrelavent.
How do I make the PD of surgery at Mass General Hospital my dad's best friend?
 
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W19

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Forget about derm OP... Even ACGME Med/Peds will be a long shot...
 
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Mal.Assezia

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Forget about derm OP... Even ACGME Med/Peds will be a long shot...

Seriously? Geez, leave it to the SDN community to make you feel totally worthless lol. I was reading data from previous med/peds matches and the average for DO students who matched into med/peds programs was around 534 COMLEX and 225 USMLE. I wouldn't call that a long shot, unless programs have dramatically changed their standards this year..
 

the argus

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Forget about derm OP... Even ACGME Med/Peds will be a long shot...
More hysterical nonsense completely outside of the realm of reality. You should spend some time actually looking at the data from the ACGME instead of repeatedly posting hogwash in every forum on this website.

According to the actual data provided by the NRMP, the OP has a very good chance at ACGME IM or peds based on USMLE/COMLEX scores. Their COMLEX score is well within the interquartile range for IM and at the upper limit for peds. Using US-IMG data, their step 1 score is also well within the interquartile range for IM, peds, and IM/peds.

To the OP, you seem to be hung-up on prestige by using terms like "super-competitive." I would recommend that you sit down and really think about what you want your future career to look like. Is it actually important that you go to a "super-competitive" program? Do you want to do a highly competitive fellowship (I would guess you have no idea as you don't even know which residency you want)? Do you want to be focused mainly on academics/research? I ask those 2 things because that's where going to a "super-competitive" residency will actually help you.

If you just want to work as a physician treating patients, then in the real world the competitiveness of your med school/residency actually ends up meaning very little. The physician groups I work with in residency have people from top USMD schools/residencies and IMGs from bottom-tier residencies working alongside each other within the same specialty.

Think about what you actually want, and don't get hung up on prestige just for prestige's sake.
 

Mal.Assezia

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More hysterical nonsense completely outside of the realm of reality. You should spend some time actually looking at the data from the ACGME instead of repeatedly posting hogwash in every forum on this website.

According to the actual data provided by the NRMP, the OP has a very good chance at ACGME IM or peds based on USMLE/COMLEX scores. Their COMLEX score is well within the interquartile range for IM and at the upper limit for peds. Using US-IMG data, their step 1 score is also well within the interquartile range for IM, peds, and IM/peds.

To the OP, you seem to be hung-up on prestige by using terms like "super-competitive." I would recommend that you sit down and really think about what you want your future career to look like. Is it actually important that you go to a "super-competitive" program? Do you want to do a highly competitive fellowship (I would guess you have no idea as you don't even know which residency you want)? Do you want to be focused mainly on academics/research? I ask those 2 things because that's where going to a "super-competitive" residency will actually help you.

If you just want to work as a physician treating patients, then in the real world the competitiveness of your med school/residency actually ends up meaning very little. The physician groups I work with in residency have people from top USMD schools/residencies and IMGs from bottom-tier residencies working alongside each other within the same specialty.

Think about what you actually want, and don't get hung up on prestige just for prestige's sake.

Thank you for your input! Oh, I don't care about prestige. I just used "super competitive" to describe Cleveland Clinic. And I want to apply there because I'm from Cleveland and spent time volunteering at Cleveland Clinic when I was in high school and would love to do my residency there.
 

W19

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@the argus combined Med/peds step1 score for US MD is ~235... Med/peds is not like IM or peds where there are a lot of bad programs that will take any US student..,
 
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jw3600

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More hysterical nonsense completely outside of the realm of reality. You should spend some time actually looking at the data from the ACGME instead of repeatedly posting hogwash in every forum on this website.

According to the actual data provided by the NRMP, the OP has a very good chance at ACGME IM or peds based on USMLE/COMLEX scores. Their COMLEX score is well within the interquartile range for IM and at the upper limit for peds. Using US-IMG data, their step 1 score is also well within the interquartile range for IM, peds, and IM/peds.

To the OP, you seem to be hung-up on prestige by using terms like "super-competitive." I would recommend that you sit down and really think about what you want your future career to look like. Is it actually important that you go to a "super-competitive" program? Do you want to do a highly competitive fellowship (I would guess you have no idea as you don't even know which residency you want)? Do you want to be focused mainly on academics/research? I ask those 2 things because that's where going to a "super-competitive" residency will actually help you.

If you just want to work as a physician treating patients, then in the real world the competitiveness of your med school/residency actually ends up meaning very little. The physician groups I work with in residency have people from top USMD schools/residencies and IMGs from bottom-tier residencies working alongside each other within the same specialty.

Think about what you actually want, and don't get hung up on prestige just for prestige's sake.
Long post from you as usual. But you know he's talking about combined meds/peds right? Not a easy residency to match even for allopathic students.
 
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the argus

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@the argus combined Med/peds step1 score for US MD is ~235... Med/peds is not like IM or peds where there are a lot of bad programs that will take any US student..,
Long post from you as usual. But you know he's talking about combined meds/peds right? Not a easy residency to match even for allopathic students.
Between 50-75 DO/IMGs have matched into combined med/peds programs every year for at least the past 5 years (thats as far back as I looked). The mean step 1 for US-IMGs that matched into med/peds last year was 227 with an interquartile range ~218-234.

To call it "a long shot" for the OP, who appears to have a pretty solid application and a step 1 minimally below average, to match into a combined med/peds program is not what I would consider an accurate representation of the situation.
 
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Mad Jack

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-DO student
-Top 20% of my class
-Getting A's in most of my 3rd year rotations (might get 1 or 2 B's)
-Can get some really great letters of recommendation
-But I messed up on step 1 because I thought doing questions wasn't necessary (idiot):
-222 USMLE step 1
-599 COMLEX level 1
-Planning on taking PE in Feb
-Planning on taking USMLE and COMLEX 2 in June
-Been doing decently on my COMAT shelves (~ 115 for most of them)

I'm torn between IM, Peds, Med/Peds, and I know it's a long and probably impossible shot but.. Derm. What are my chances of matching in maybe competitive Peds programs like Cleveland Clinic, and matching in general in the others? I feel like I've been learning the material well, doing lots of questions and getting most of them right, and think that I can do well on step 2. Any advice on any of this would be really helpful and appreciated.
Derm is a solid nope. Med/Peds, IM and Peds are all reasonable, though med/peds is a longer shot than either IM or peds due to the lower number of programs. Could throw a couple lower tier programs on your app while primarily focusing on either IM or peds, but I wouldn't put all your eggs in the med/peds basket. As to "competitive" programs- not likely. You could probably land a university program somewhere, but not at a top or prestigious institution. You could apply, just don't plan on hearing back from too many of your reaches.
 
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acapnial

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Thank you for your input! Oh, I don't care about prestige. I just used "super competitive" to describe Cleveland Clinic. And I want to apply there because I'm from Cleveland and spent time volunteering at Cleveland Clinic when I was in high school and would love to do my residency there.

It's also not that competitive for IM. Win-win!
 
D

deleted245139

Thank you for your input! Oh, I don't care about prestige. I just used "super competitive" to describe Cleveland Clinic. And I want to apply there because I'm from Cleveland and spent time volunteering at Cleveland Clinic when I was in high school and would love to do my residency there.

RBC has arguably a better program. Dont let name recognition blind you regarding training quality. Akron children's is an excellent Peds prog as well
 
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CCF doesn't have that good of a peds program. The IM program is highly "rated" but it's not that good or competitive either. CCF also owns Akron Children's now. I would say that RBC/UH has the best of the three but certainly the "name" of CCF carries a lot of weight even though the program isn't all that great.

In general, CCF has amazing surgical residencies (like all top 10 in the country), really good non-surgical/specialty residencies (rads, anesth, path), average IM and peds, and a not so great EM in terms of training. This is true of most "name" programs that everything can't all be amazing but prestige and perception is the name of the game.
 

Magneto1

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So is there any scientific/somewhat reliable way to gauge if we should apply to a "back-up" specialty (no disrespect to IM just being practical) when applying to one of these really competitive specialties like Derm? Aside from the obvious being in the Step score range and such...
 
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