Dartmouth vs University of Central Florida (UCF)

[imnamerican]

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So I've waffled for ages on whether to start this thread, but I figure now I'm desperate enough for help that I might as well give it a shot. 🙂

Dartmouth: small private school in Hanover, NH. Not what some would classify a medical "powerhouse," but has very specific strengths in regards to health policy, healthcare delivery, and business.

+ The healthcare delivery/global health angle is totally up my alley. If they had a stronger engineering school, they'd be a perfect fit for my goals (medical devices for the underserved)
+ P/F first 2 years
+ Small, tight-knit campus
+ Very strong match list
+ Objectively the more established program
+ More established opportunities for service (free clinic programs, Schweitzer fellowships, etc)
- I'm not particularly outdoorsy, so the rural location might be a negative. Also, I've only seen snow like twice in my life, so I'm not sure how I'd respond.
- Cost (~$200,000 after 4 years)
- Playing musical chairs during rotations (Dartmouth ships you around the country for your clinical years)
- Far away from support system (although I've lived away from home for ages, I've never been to the northeast)

UCF: Large public school in Orlando, FL. Took its charter class in 2009, so it's a relatively new program. Definitely a school with a significant upward trend and a high ceiling, especially if it can keep the leadership of Dean German over the next ten years or so. IMO, the best investment in Florida right now.

+ Close to home + support system
+ Cost (~$100,000 after 4 years)
+ More centralized/local clinical opportunities at Florida Hospital and newer facilities (Nemours, Orlando VA) being built nearby
+ By virtue of being a newer school, they appear more open and receptive to student feedback, and they're more able to implement immediate changes based on that feedback.
+ The school and administration are very thoughtful about the choices they make for their students in regards to the curriculum and requirements.
- A/B/C/F first 2 years, although from what I understand it's not graded on a curve
- Weaker in my field of interest, partly due to the available resources/funding and partly due to the distance of the medical campus from the rest of the university.
- I only have a small sample size, but there were a few students during my interview day who gave me the impression that they "settled" on UCF.

When it's all said and done, this comes down to a battle between price and potential opportunities. I haven't chosen a specialty, but I will likely be an academic physician with about a 70/30 split between clinical and research work. While I love UCF and its mission, I find it hard to shake the feeling that I wouldn't be able to follow my passions with the same level of support. My interests require very close collaboration between biomedicine, engineering, and academic physicians, and I still feel like the school is too young to offer the same level of resources. At the same time, would the possibility of more resources at Dartmouth be worth six figures?

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[nBeeDee]

At the same time, would the possibility of more resources at Dartmouth be worth six figures?

That is just too big of a difference personally, that debt will be life altering down the road. Especially since you're considering academics rather than private practice, your life would be much better in the future with lower debt. Adding warm weather, closeness to family/friends, and more centralized clinical rotations, that would seal the deal at UCF for me.

It seems like your decision comes down to a higher priced established school vs a more affordable but unproven option. I'm personally planning on attending a newer school where I would be the fourth class and chose this over a more established option (Drexel). I don't think Drexel is the same caliber of school that Dartmouth is, but for me price was a serious concern and was one of the reasons I wont be in Philly this year. I also believe UCF graduated their first class this year, and now have full accreditation with the LCME, if that is a concern. I interviewed at a few newer MD schools this year, and in general I felt like they give more attention to students and have easier access to their resources (although they may have less) compared to other schools. But obviously this may or may not be true depending on the comparison.

 

[FijiGNR89]

Considering the drastic price difference, I'd have to agree as well. I'm having a similar hard time because UCF and another school I'm holding my acceptance at will leave me with the same amount of debt. The other school is more established, but UCF is much closer to friends/family and the like.

What I think it comes down to is that MD is MD is MD. We're all going to be practicing physicians whether we go to the #1 school or the #150 school. If you have the option to have $100,000 less in debt, then DO IT. That's my two cents. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's feedback though because the situation is very similar to my own. May 15 is creepin up on us!

 

[imnamerican]

That is just too big of a difference personally, that debt will be life altering down the road. Especially since you're considering academics rather than private practice, your life would be much better in the future with lower debt. Adding warm weather, closeness to family/friends, and more centralized clinical rotations, that would seal the deal at UCF for me.

Thanks for the thoughtful response! I definitely agree with your points about the size of the financial difference and the closeness to home. The one caveat in regards to academics would be that a few of my mentors feel as if coming from a more established school plays a sizable role in your future hiring prospects at major research universities. I just want to make sure I'm not closing any doors in that regard.

It seems like your decision comes down to a higher priced established school vs a more affordable but unproven option. I'm personally planning on attending a newer school where I would be the fourth class and chose this over a more established option (Drexel). I don't think Drexel is the same caliber of school that Dartmouth is, but for me price was a serious concern and was one of the reasons I wont be in Philly this year. I also believe UCF graduated their first class this year, and now have full accreditation with the LCME, if that is a concern. I interviewed at a few newer MD schools this year, and in general I felt like they give more attention to students and have easier access to their resources (although they may have less) compared to other schools. But obviously this may or may not be true depending on the comparison.

You're pretty much correct, although I will say that I'm not very concerned about the future of UCF as a school. I'm pretty confident they'll do well over the next 10 years.

I think the issue is also trying to decide between wanting to be a part of something new (which would lean towards UCF) but also having interests that require a more stable foundation to get something tangible out of my four years (which would lean towards Dartmouth). I definitely value what I would learn from building something from the ground up, but I don't want to invest all of my time in developing a foundation I won't be able to take advantage of myself.

 

[imnamerican]

Considering the drastic price difference, I'd have to agree as well. I'm having a similar hard time because UCF and another school I'm holding my acceptance at will leave me with the same amount of debt. The other school is more established, but UCF is much closer to friends/family and the like.

What I think it comes down to is that MD is MD is MD. We're all going to be practicing physicians whether we go to the #1 school or the #150 school. If you have the option to have $100,000 less in debt, then DO IT. That's my two cents. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's feedback though because the situation is very similar to my own. May 15 is creepin up on us!

Thanks! Yeah, this advice lines up really well with the rational side of my brain. The counterargument would be in academics, where there is a subset of my mentors who suggest MDs are not created equal in regards to research opportunities. How true this is, I haven't the slightest clue.

Best of luck to the both of us! Only a week away...

 

[nBeeDee]

What I think it comes down to is that MD is MD is MD. We're all going to be practicing physicians whether we go to the #1 school or the #150 school. If you have the option to have $100,000 less in debt, then DO IT. That's my two cents. I'd be interested in hearing everyone else's feedback though because the situation is very similar to my own. May 15 is creepin up on us!

+1, pretty much how I feel.

So your situation is basically newer school close to friends/family vs. more established school far away? I guess for me it would depend on more specifics like how far away the other school is, resources, location (city/suburb/rural), curriculum details, rotations/hospitals, etc. Sorry that's probably not very helpful haha. Good luck!

The one caveat in regards to academics would be that a few of my mentors feel as if coming from a more established school plays a sizable role in your future hiring prospects at major research universities. I just want to make sure I'm not closing any doors in that regard.

That's a good question, and it would probably be best for you to ask academic attendings for their insight, either ones you know or perhaps asking attendings on SDN. Are your mentors academic physicians? If so I would take their advice seriously if you are set on that kind of a career. However, I have also heard that academic positions are relatively not difficult to find for physicians because of the salary difference compared to private practice. This may not be the case for the cream of the crop academic hospitals if that's your goal, I really just don't know.

 

[crimsontide1]

I'm in a similar situation only I'm deciding between UCF and Jefferson. I absolutely loved UCF during my visit. Of all my interviews I felt most excited while being in Orlando. There is something really appealing to being a part of something so new and with so much potential. The staff and faculty were all great, and REL is one hell of a director.

I'm just apprehensive about saying no to a school (Jeff) with so much tradition/the largest alumni network in the country for a school that is just getting started. UCF had an amazing first match list, but it's such a tiny sample size, no one really knows how it's going to play out in the next few years. I truly believe UCF will be the best medical school in Florida 10ish years from now, but presently I'm not sure if it's the right choice. Plus for me both schools would be the same price.

I think your situation is even more difficult because you want to be an academic doc. Dartmouth has the connections to other top notch research programs (hey city of Boston) that you would def be able to take advantage of. Ivy's like Brown and Dartmouth may not have the swagger of Harvard and Penn, but they def have strong relationships with those schools. I mean look at how many kids match to Harvard coming out of Brown and Dartmouth. I think even in it's best day, UCF wouldn't be able to give you that. If you were purely in it to become a practicing MD, I'd say go UCF, but considering your goals, I have to say Dartmouth.

 

[tungsten184]

I would go with Dartmouth. If you wanna be in academics the name matters, and that's what I've always heard/seen. In regards to UCF's match being awesome, take that with a grain of salt because they gave that class full scholarships so they got some top students that were going to make it regardless. 200k in debt is going to be the average debt soon... as high as it sounds.

I interviewed at and got into both and while UCF has all these grand schemes of growth that's not now and it's not your class, while Dartmouth will always enjoy the ivy name. I don't think UCF will be better than UF in the next 10 yrs, IMHO. GL I know it's a tough choice.

 

[triagemed]

When stating costs of ~$200,000 and 100,000, is that just for tuition and fees? Because the cost of living will also be different between these two schools, so you should consider that as well.

 

[imnamerican]

I'm in a similar situation only I'm deciding between UCF and Jefferson. I absolutely loved UCF during my visit. Of all my interviews I felt most excited while being in Orlando. There is something really appealing to being a part of something so new and with so much potential. The staff and faculty were all great, and REL is one hell of a director.

I'm just apprehensive about saying no to a school (Jeff) with so much tradition/the largest alumni network in the country for a school that is just getting started. UCF had an amazing first match list, but it's such a tiny sample size, no one really knows how it's going to play out in the next few years. I truly believe UCF will be the best medical school in Florida 10ish years from now, but presently I'm not sure if it's the right choice. Plus for me both schools would be the same price.

Congrats on Jefferson! I'm a huge fan of big cities, so the fact that Jefferson is in Philly is a big plus in my mind. Still not an easy choice, though. I hear you on how awesome the UCF interview was; arguably the best showing from all the schools I saw.

I think your situation is even more difficult because you want to be an academic doc. Dartmouth has the connections to other top notch research programs (hey city of Boston) that you would def be able to take advantage of. Ivy's like Brown and Dartmouth may not have the swagger of Harvard and Penn, but they def have strong relationships with those schools. I mean look at how many kids match to Harvard coming out of Brown and Dartmouth. I think even in it's best day, UCF wouldn't be able to give you that. If you were purely in it to become a practicing MD, I'd say go UCF, but considering your goals, I have to say Dartmouth.

Thanks for your candidness. I know common SDN wisdom is not to look at match lists, but I can't help but shake the feeling that those connections might come in handy when it comes match day.

I would go with Dartmouth. If you wanna be in academics the name matters, and that's what I've always heard/seen.

Yeah, this is basically what my PI is suggesting. I'm currently doing research full-time, and I've met a couple of people well-known in my field who don't come from brand name med schools, but they appear to be more the exception than the rule. They also usually either have baller residencies or fellowships to back them up.

When stating costs of ~$200,000 and 100,000, is that just for tuition and fees? Because the cost of living will also be different between these two schools, so you should consider that as well.

That includes both living costs and tuition. Dartmouth's estimate is probably accurate, while UCF's might actually be a bit cheaper (closer to $90,000) due to family support.

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Appreciate all the feedback, guys! Would be happy to hear any other perspectives.

 

[Lafakads]

I'd say choose UCF.

Since you are an FL resident, you cant beat the awesome FL weather.
100k is a lot of money
From what I hear UCF is doing a great job and I think they will become a very strong school in the coming years.

And I believe UCF engineering program is pretty strong (I graduated from USF), but I could definitely see some interdisciplinary work going on.

 

[triagemed]

That includes both living costs and tuition. Dartmouth's estimate is probably accurate, while UCF's might actually be a bit cheaper (closer to $90,000) due to family support.

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Appreciate all the feedback, guys! Would be happy to hear any other perspectives.

Well, if you break it down, you are getting a pretty good deal either way. Only $50,000/yr at Dartmouth including all costs- most people pay more than this in just tuition alone- and $25,000/yr at UCF. I would probably pick UCF because it is significantly cheaper and closer to family, but can understand the benefits of choosing Dartmouth. Also think about where you would like to end up for residency. Dartmouth will have more of a pull in NE and UCF more in FL and the south.

 

[Wifey1985]

Since you are an FL resident, you cant beat the awesome FL weather.

This could actually be a pretty critical component for someone who has lived in FL (or somewhere equally sunny) for his/her entire life. It's a pretty big shock to the system for some people. And don't forget how far north Hanover is -- you'll be seeing a lot less daylight there than you would in FL.

Obviously weather is not THE reason to choose one school over another, but I would suggest giving a lot of thought to what it will mean to make such a drastic change. Full disclosure: I'm an AZ native who is still scarred from attending college in Montreal 🙂

 

[hippocratic57]

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[hippocratic57]

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[Derm131]

If you are from Florida, UCF would be better in my opinion.

As you said, it is cheaper and close to your family. Not sure if Dartmouth is worth the extra debt...

Plus, if you plan on doing residency in Florida (I also heard the family supports helps tremendously when you are working 80 hours a week), letters of rec from doctors that have ties to nearby hospitals would be better than letters from doctors in Dartmouth.

But both are great schools, so congrats on both offers. You can't really go wrong with either decisions, but seems like UCF would be a better fit for you.

 

[imnamerican]

Thanks for all your help guys! You all are a wonderful bunch.

For those who follow this thread in the future: out of these two schools, I ended up choosing Dartmouth. Very tough decision, and I agonized about it for weeks before I hit the "send" button. UCF is a great school, and I will definitely keep an eye on them as I move forward in my career.