Future DVMs- C/O 2021!

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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Just scheduled for my last semester of undergrad:clap:
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ResoluteMike said:
Me too! What classes are you taking?
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Yay!
And lol. I'm being a tad lazy for once.

15 hrs with two online classes and only have actual class 3 days a week (pumped because I can work more and make $$). A nutrition class, a med term class, a dairy science class, and a growth physiology class. It'll be a nice relaxing semester before the real grind begins (...hopefully?!).

You?
 
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15 hours too, but nothing that I would call relaxing. Immunology, Biology of Pathogenic Organisms, Physics 2, and Biochemistry of Metabolism. (Thursday will be a special hell with all 4 classes and the physics lab.) I only really need Immunology and BPO or Biochem to graduate, but the other classes set me up to apply for more schools if I don't get in this year.
 
ResoluteMike said:
15 hours too, but nothing that I would call relaxing. Immunology, Biology of Pathogenic Organisms, Physics 2, and Biochemistry of Metabolism. (Thursday will be a special hell with all 4 classes and the physics lab.) I only really need Immunology and BPO or Biochem to graduate, but the other classes set me up to apply for more schools if I don't get in this year.
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That sounds like a REALLY intense semester!
 
ResoluteMike said:
15 hours too, but nothing that I would call relaxing. Immunology, Biology of Pathogenic Organisms, Physics 2, and Biochemistry of Metabolism. (Thursday will be a special hell with all 4 classes and the lab.) I only really need Immunology and BPO or Biochem to graduate, but the other classes set me up to apply for more schools if I don't get in this year.
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I'm probably weird but Biochem topped the list as one of my favorite classes in undergrad (second only to physio). So interesting! Physics II, not so much haha! Biology of Pathogenic Organisms sounds interesting. I considered taking a veterinary pathology class but decided I liked not having class two days a week more haha.
 
Btw--I may have asked this already, but--on my app, I called my PIs (have had 2 of them) Primary Investigators rather than Principal Investigators .... was this a huge faux pas & insta-reject? :shrug:
 
mmmdreamerz said:
I'm probably weird but Biochem topped the list as one of my favorite classes in undergrad (second only to physio). So interesting! Physics II, not so much haha! Biology of Pathogenic Organisms sounds interesting. I considered taking a veterinary pathology class but decided I liked not having class two days a week more haha.
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Biochem was also one of my favorite classes. I liked it because it integrated things I've learned in biology and chemistry, and it really explained how physiological processes work. Next semester will be light- I'll be taking immunology, physics 2, zoonotic diseases + control, and weight training. I wish my school offered a veterinary pathology class. That sounds interesting!
 
Mother of god...somehow I am just now realizing that I left off a MAJOR experience on my VMCAS application. HOLY ****. Can I email schools and ask them to tack it onto my application? Just send them all the info that would have been in the fields on VMCAS? I can't believe I'm only just now seeing this
 
cohen2000 said:
Biochem was also one of my favorite classes. I liked it because it integrated things I've learned in biology and chemistry, and it really explained how physiological processes work. Next semester will be light- I'll be taking immunology, physics 2, zoonotic diseases + control, and weight training. I wish my school offered a veterinary pathology class. That sounds interesting!
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Yes! Part of it probably had something to do with the fact that I've spent so much of undergrad working in a biochemistry lab and it was awesome to finally get some knowledge gaps filled in (and actually talk about all the things I'm super passionate about in class haha). I also totally tackled it like a physiology course and learned so much. I kinda miss it lol.
 
sheltermed said:
Btw--I may have asked this already, but--on my app, I called my PIs (have had 2 of them) Primary Investigators rather than Principal Investigators .... was this a huge faux pas & insta-reject? :shrug:
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They probably don't care about this.

sheltermed said:
Mother of god...somehow I am just now realizing that I left off a MAJOR experience on my VMCAS application. HOLY ****. Can I email schools and ask them to tack it onto my application? Just send them all the info that would have been in the fields on VMCAS? I can't believe I'm only just now seeing this
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You can email them, but chances are they won't take it. They've been reviewing applications for at least a month. What do you have to lose though, at worst they say no and you're where you are, at best they'll add it to your file.
 
Bottle of Bear said:
They probably don't care about this.



You can email them, but chances are they won't take it. They've been reviewing applications for at least a month. What do you have to lose though, at worst they say no and you're where you are, at best they'll add it to your file.
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That's what I did. Gonna hope for the best. Thanks :)
 
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Bottle of Bear said:
They probably don't care about this.



You can email them, but chances are they won't take it. They've been reviewing applications for at least a month. What do you have to lose though, at worst they say no and you're where you are, at best they'll add it to your file.
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Also, on the semi-bright side, I did mention this experience both in my PS and explanation statement.
 
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mmmdreamerz said:
I'm probably weird but Biochem topped the list as one of my favorite classes in undergrad (second only to physio). So interesting! Physics II, not so much haha! Biology of Pathogenic Organisms sounds interesting. I considered taking a veterinary pathology class but decided I liked not having class two days a week more haha.
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I have been kind of lucky with my courses. Even though I am taking nothing but science I can usually take some classes that compliment each other, so the learning from one class helps to reinforce the others. I am hoping that strategy pays off for Immunology and the Pathogenic Micro classes. It is hard, but I have really been enjoying myself. I hope it stays that way with vet school. :)
 
sheltermed said:
lol, my mom said almost the same thing verbatim.
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I'm pretty sure both are acceptable. If you google "primary investigator," you get plenty of legit results. I wonder if the difference is regional/institutional- I feel like at my undergrad people mostly said primary rather than principal. Anyway, definitely nothing to worry about!
 
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If one more person asks me about when I'm going to get accepted to vet school, I'm probably going to go psycho.

I'm holding on to the fact that I will be seeing Hamilton in Chicago in 22 days.


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cdoconn said:
If one more person asks me about when I'm going to get accepted to vet school, I'm probably going to go psycho.

I'm holding on to the fact that I will be seeing Hamilton in Chicago in 22 days.


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I've answered this question so much that I almost think I sound rehearsed at this point.

It really would be easier to put in the back of my mind if people stopped asking about it. At any rate, I've finally got something decent to distract myself with at least for a couple months.
 
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finnickthedog said:
I've answered this question so much that I almost think I sound rehearsed at this point.

It really would be easier to put in the back of my mind if people stopped asking about it. At any rate, I've finally got something decent to distract myself with at least for a couple months.
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Same. I'm fearing Thanksgiving because I go up to my dad's side in Chicago every year and they're all too excited for me to go to vet school, so I'm going to have to answer to at least 75 people why I haven't heard back from any schools yet.

My friend recommended this sweater, but add "anything about vet school- actually, don't mention vet school at all, I haven't heard anything"

ImageUploadedBySDN1478153077.575580.jpg



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While we're on the topic...the worst for me is when I run into old high school friends who always ask "So are you're like a vet now right??" And I have to politely explain that I am not and am currently attempting to gain acceptance somewhere......when I'm really thinking "ITS JUST AS HARD AS GETTING INTO MED SCHOOL IF NOT HARDER":bigtears:
 
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ResoluteMike said:
I have been kind of lucky with my courses. Even though I am taking nothing but science I can usually take some classes that compliment each other, so the learning from one class helps to reinforce the others. I am hoping that strategy pays off for Immunology and the Pathogenic Micro classes. It is hard, but I have really been enjoying myself. I hope it stays that way with vet school. :)
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I understand completely. Last semester I took Ochem II, Physics II, Biochem, and Repro phys all at once. The struggle was real but made it out okay. Not that I would recommend that level of torture haha. You do what you gotta do!
 
mmmdreamerz said:
I understand completely. Last semester I took Ochem II, Physics II, Biochem, and Repro phys all at once. The struggle was real but made it out okay. Not that I would recommend that level of torture haha. You do what you gotta do!
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Yup! But there is only another 183 days and then I am done with undergrad. Not that I am counting or anything. :)
 
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cdoconn said:
If one more person asks me about when I'm going to get accepted to vet school, I'm probably going to go psycho.

I'm holding on to the fact that I will be seeing Hamilton in Chicago in 22 days.


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Or if one more person asks me where I will be going to vet school. I DON'T KNOW. I THINK ABOUT IT EVERY WAKING MOMENT OF MY LIFE.
 
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RedLauren said:
Or if one more person asks me where I will be going to vet school. I DON'T KNOW. I THINK ABOUT IT EVERY WAKING MOMENT OF MY LIFE.
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Go think about something else. And I'm only partly joking. ;)
 
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cdoconn said:
And I get a seat near the front and on the right (cause you know... deafness).


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Done. But since it's hell you can't see anything and the person on your left has bad BO.
 
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Recently they sent out an email for full time positions.. I found one dealing with lab animals and histology techniques.. stuff I'm interested in. What do I do? I apply and now I have an interview. I guess I found my back up plan if I don't get in?


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Deleted as suggested by another user since it's in more than one thread... Sorry
 
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As some have already suspected, the number of applications did indeed go up quite a bit this year! AAVMC released this a few days ago:

...the number of applicants to the Veterinary Medical College Application Service (VMCAS) rose almost six percent over last year... a total of 7,071 applicants applied to professional education programs operated by AAVMC member institutions participating in VMCAS. That’s 398 more than the 6,673 applicants that applied during last year’s cycle.

The total number of applications submitted was 34,116, compared with 30,567 that submitted last year, representing an increase of more than ten percent. During the 2016 admissions cycle, students applied to an average of 4.8 different schools, compared with 4.6 last year.​

UC Davis received 1,124 applications compared to 894 last year. U of Missouri topped 1,000 applications for the first time, and Glasgow and VMRCVM are also reporting record numbers. Here's some info on previous years, for anyone curious:

screen-shot-2016-10-31-at-1-26-48-pm-png.210362


Good luck, everyone!!
 
Toniregi said:
I don't know if anyone can answer this, but I am currently taking an honors class and writing a 50 page thesis.... The problem is they tell me everyone in this class takes an incomplete, and then gets a grade ln the spring semester. I'm worried bc I have to send in my transcripts for the fall semester, when they see the incomplete will that hurt my chances of getting into the schools I've applied to?



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Probably not, especially if you tell this to the school.
 
In response to the stats post above last one:

And almost none of them want to be food production or large animal for which there is a great need. I think we have 7 of those vets in a 5 county area and almost all are retiring. Labratory/research also does not get a lot of pre-vets interested in it.
 
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Hatter2012 said:
In response to the stats post above last one:

And almost none of them want to be food production or large animal for which there is a great need. I think we have 7 of those vets in a 5 county area and almost all are retiring. Labratory/research also does not get a lot of pre-vets interested in it.
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I don't know if I agree with this... there's definitely a sizable fraction of students in my class who are interested in food production, large or mixed animal, and lab animal/research. I'm considering going into production, myself. The main stumbling point is that a lot of the shortage areas in terms of large animal don't really have the money in the local economy to support a newly graduating vet who, most likely, has six figures worth of debt. Trust me when I say that there are actually many people who would like to enter those careers, but most simply won't be able to make it work financially. Keep in mind that a lot of the vets who are retiring did not have anywhere near the debt burden of new grads; also, we're still recovering from a nasty recession in this country. I personally know a lot of people who wanted to go into large animal/mixed/equine who could not afford to and ended up in small animal because that is the only sect of the profession that pays well enough to even remotely begin servicing the kind of debt that we have. Sad, but true.

In that same vein, the shortage area forgiveness and incentive programs that have cropped up in recent years certainly sound great on paper, but state budgets are always in flux and very few of them actually have been adequately funded.

There is a "great need", but calling it that is a bit misleading and oversimplifies the issue.
 
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Hatter2012 said:
In response to the stats post above last one:

And almost none of them want to be food production or large animal for which there is a great need. I think we have 7 of those vets in a 5 county area and almost all are retiring. Labratory/research also does not get a lot of pre-vets interested in it.
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I don't know if I'd say "almost none" want to go into those fields. Sandstorm posted this info about demographics of Iowa State's interviewees this weekend. 80% of applicants interviewing say they're interested in something other than small animal. @SandstormDVM do you know if Iowa interviews more/prefers applicants with that preference, or do you think it's representative of their applicants as a whole?

I certainly agree that overall, more graduates go into small animal medicine, but that's also because there aren't as many jobs as you might think in other areas (and the pay, especially with student debt, might not be what you hope). There's a recent discussion about that here, and if you search, you'll find lots more. It comes up pretty much anytime someone mentions opening up new schools. The AVMA and other groups often refer to an area without a low vet:animal ratio as a shortage area, but that doesn't mean a vet there would be able to make a living. Unfortunately, there's a big difference between who needs a vet and who's willing and able to pay a vet.
 
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SandstormDVM said:
I don't know if I agree with this... there's definitely a sizable fraction of students in my class who are interested in food production, large or mixed animal, and lab animal/research. I'm considering going into production, myself. The main stumbling point is that a lot of the shortage areas in terms of large animal don't really have the money in the local economy to support a newly graduating vet who, most likely, has six figures worth of debt. Trust me when I say that there are actually many people who would like to enter those careers, but most simply won't be able to make it work financially. Keep in mind that a lot of the vets who are retiring did not have anywhere near the debt burden of new grads; also, we're still recovering from a nasty recession in this country. I personally know a lot of people who wanted to go into large animal/mixed/equine who could not afford to and ended up in small animal because that is the only sect of the profession that pays well enough to even remotely begin servicing the kind of debt that we have. Sad, but true.

In that same vein, the shortage area forgiveness and incentive programs that have cropped up in recent years certainly sound great on paper, but state budgets are always in flux and very few of them actually have been adequately funded.

There is a "great need", but calling it that is a bit misleading and oversimplifies the issue.
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Not sure if this has much to do with it, but my school (and I'm sure plenty others) does a lot of production animal and equine (mostly production) research, so I feel like if one is interested and able, pursuing that would be a great way to contribute to those fields. Then perhaps revisit going into clinical practice once things are more financially sound. I'm probably making this all up and it's probably unrealistic--was just an idea I had! :p
 
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TrashPanda said:
I don't know if I'd say "almost none" want to go into those fields. Sandstorm posted this info about demographics of Iowa State's interviewees this weekend. 80% of applicants interviewing say they're interested in something other than small animal. @SandstormDVM do you know if Iowa interviews more/prefers applicants with that preference, or do you think it's representative of their applicants as a whole?
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Woof. I'm not sure. This cycle is a bit of an anomaly because, according to at least two adcoms I talked to, apparently ISU actually had significantly fewer applicants than what was expected (from reading around the various c/o 2021 threads a bit, it seems like most schools saw increases in application numbers, with some being record-breaking). No idea why that might be or if it really impacted the demographics much at all, but I thought it was interesting.

Honestly, it's probably a little of both. Seeing as the midwest is the main agricultural center of the country for most industries, it would only make sense that a lot of pre-vets in the region who are interested in that line of work would apply to nearby schools, including ISU, especially if they are IS. Especially those who want to do swine/pork in particular because that Iowa's bread and butter in terms of food production. I haven't heard anything concrete on whether or not there is preference shown to applicants with those interests, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little bit.
 
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SandstormDVM said:
Woof. I'm not sure. This cycle is a bit of an anomaly because, according to at least two adcoms I talked to, apparently ISU actually had significantly fewer applicants than what was expected (from reading around the various c/o 2021 threads a bit, it seems like most schools saw increases in application numbers, with some being record-breaking). No idea why that might be or if it really impacted the demographics much at all, but I thought it was interesting.

Honestly, it's probably a little of both. Seeing as the midwest is the main agricultural center of the country for most industries, it would only make sense that a lot of pre-vets in the region who are interested in that line of work would apply to nearby schools, including ISU, especially if they are IS. Especially those who want to do swine/pork in particular because that Iowa's bread and butter in terms of food production. I haven't heard anything concrete on whether or not there is preference shown to applicants with those interests, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a little bit.
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That makes sense, thanks! It'll be interesting to see how many eventually end up in production/equine/research/etc. I wish there were more data about graduating vet classes. It would be really nice to know what everyone ends up in and which decisions are based on interests and which are based on necessity (job openings, debt, etc.)
 
Is there a need for large animal vets? Yes.
Can large animal vets pay what a new grad expects/needs? Maybe, but usually no.

I am from a rural area. Before I decided to go into clin path I thought I'd return to said rural area...childhood dream and all that. The vet I worked for offered me a job and said he'd started the last associate he'd hired at $45,000/year. Let that sink in. $45,000 per year. Before taxes. For a job that you spent 8 years learning how to do after high school. He did caveat it by saying that the last associate got a raise up to $65,000 her second year working for him based on her production, but she was still just paid on salary. Now, given my debt level, I could have made that work. And it is cheaper to live in rural areas, after all. But the grads that have 200-300k in student loans? It's much harder, especially for a single person.

Let's look at some numbers. Let's do a grad with 250k in loans. Salary minus about 30% taxes leaves you 32,000/year or 2600/month to live on. REPAYE or PAYE look like the best loan repayment option from the VIN loan simulator, but even then you're going to have payments of about $300/month. Okay, that doesn't sound to bad but don't forget you have to save at least $400-600 per month for the tax on forgiven loans at the end because no way are you touching even the interest each month. That leaves you 1700-1900 to live on. Rent or mortgage (if you're even able to get a mortgage with your debt to income ratio), car payment, health insurance (since not all small clinics will be able to provide you with insurance), electricity, internet, etc...it's going to be tough. You'll be living like a student even after all these years of schooling. A spouse to pay bills and stuff would change things, but then we have to consider kids and all that.

It's not hopeless by any means, but it becomes a hard sell for those large animal clinics when people could stay in small animal practice and make almost double or even more than the large animal salary each year. That same grad with all the debt who wanted to go into large animal can go to a small animal only practice and make twice the large animal salary or even more per year. And so many do go SA, then prevets, some news sources, and historically the AVMA tout how much of a need there is for large animal vets. Yes, there is, I'm not denying that. But our system is so broken with regards to debt:income that it's not as easy of a fix as simply graduating more people who start vet school wanting to do large animal. I'm not posting all of this to be a debbie downer, but I want people to be realistic about how much this dream we all have/had costs and how it plays out in the long run. I was naive when I was applying and as a high schooler/undergrad, and I don't want others to be. It's not as simple as no one wanting to do large animal.

Oh, and there probably are better paying large animal jobs, I am just speaking for what seemed to be the norm in my own area of a rural western/midwestern state.
 
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