GGoats!! - An aMAAAAAHzing WW thread

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I’m happy to admit I screwed up IF I did. But you haven’t convinced me of that yet. And I’m not going to expect myself to be able to play with the level of subtlety that you want when I’ve only played 2 games.

You being pissed about a lack of subtlety when the entire lack of subtlety in your post is what pinged me in the first place is ironic though.
 
I think it's possible cray would jump to claiming mason partner as a wolf in the hopes that she could at least take the real partner down with her, but I think adding in the unconvertible part is a little bit of a stretch in terms of what I would see wolf!cray doing. And her frustration with the whole thing reads genuine to me.
 
Crayola227 said:
Trying to understand the hold. I was on thread. Whyd it take you so long? Conferring in pack chat?
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It was followed by an ISO, and I had to go through 12 pages of posts.

Come on, Cray. This is just grasping at straws.
 
WildZoo said:
I think it's possible cray would jump to claiming mason partner as a wolf in the hopes that she could at least take the real partner down with her, but I think adding in the unconvertible part is a little bit of a stretch in terms of what I would see wolf!cray doing. And her frustration with the whole thing reads genuine to me.
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I'll keep this in mind.

If the unconvertible part is true, wouldn't that have been in the write up about TME though? It doesn't say that. It just says mason.
 
Why TME was the kill in the first place, unless wolves just pulled an RNG, is of interest to me. Sometimes wolves do just get lucky but I would love to know why they picked her, so gonna try to comb through her posts a bit and see if anything stands out when I have some time.
 
supershorty said:
I'll keep this in mind.

If the unconvertible part is true, wouldn't that have been in the write up about TME though? It doesn't say that. It just says mason.
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Well, as cray pointed out, it also just says JOAT for pippy, and not what her JOAT abilities were

If mods didn't want to telegraph that conversion is possible in this game, I could see them leaving it out.
 
WildZoo said:
I'm honestly confused by this. What's the connection between TME and cray?
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It's OK Shorty. It was when Dubz said this I knew the gig was up.

I'm worried Dubz is wolf, and even if not, the wolves are reading and they were gonna see and ask the same question. Wasn't rocket science.

I answered your questions are directly and unevasively as I could, when you wanted my thoughts on her death, on April.

I'm not good at talking about night results, so I usually don't. When you pressed me, I thought mentioning I was watched would clue you in I knew what you were getting at and wanted to reassure you. I tried to do it in a way I hoped wasn't going to invite the village watcher to come forward.

Sorta lost that battle though, and I didn't want to die without the conversion threat ever mentioned.
 
Crayola227 said:
It's OK Shorty. It was when Dubz said this I knew the gig was up.

I'm worried Dubz is wolf, and even if not, the wolves are reading and they were gonna see and ask the same question. Wasn't rocket science.

I answered your questions are directly and unevasively as I could, when you wanted my thoughts on her death, on April.

I'm not good at talking about night results, so I usually don't. When you pressed me, I thought mentioning I was watched would clue you in I knew what you were getting at and wanted to reassure you. I tried to do it in a way I hoped wasn't going to invite the village watcher to come forward.

Sorta lost that battle though, and I didn't want to die without the conversion threat ever mentioned.
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That's my bad, I didn't have the mason bit in my head when I asked that and thought she was saying that some posts of yours yesterday led her to read you wolf with either 1) TME being killed or 2) TME being village. Thought I had missed something while I was skimming yesterday.
 
WildZoo said:
Well, as cray pointed out, it also just says JOAT for pippy, and not what her JOAT abilities were

If mods didn't want to telegraph that conversion is possible in this game, I could see them leaving it out.
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Okay - I didn't realize that with JOATs, it would say the abilities normally. I haven't seen that before. I am sorry that I missed that.

I still have sketchy feels from Cray's whole train of thought/approach and I have to be honest that some of this doesn't make sense to me, so I need to do some reading on some game related things.
 
Crayola227 said:
Wondering if you really mean this, or if you or Shorty are hunting for her mason partner.
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This was supposed to be a clue to Shorty to consider I was the mason, and I hoped it was enough for her to be more subtle probing me.

Sometimes when you're trying to get answers out of someone you used a night ability on, you'll have to settle for between the lines and watch. Too direct can be too direct.

I said Dubz or Shorty because I was trying to use shade to say back off watcher and hope it just came off as Cray gets touchy about anyone seemingly PR-hunting. Which I do. I didn't want to only call out Dubz or Shorty in case one was villager (I have my sus of them, but when you're trying not to paint a target on a possible village PR is when I do more to consider, what if this is v/v than when I'm calling out a post for its sketch).

But like, as soon as you directly ask me what I was doing with TME last night, game is up.
 
Crayola227 said:
But like, as soon as you directly ask me what I was doing with TME last night, game is up.
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I didn't. I asked if you interacted with her. Not what you were doing. Because I knew there were multiple possibilities and I was really just interested to see if you'd say no.
 
supershorty said:
I went back and ISOed Cray after night results were posted and found a few things that pinged me that I want to leave here. I'm revising my read of Cray down from village to neutral for now, and I want to see how she responds to this. I feel like normally by D2, village!cray has at least half the players in the game in her POE, and she really isn't coming across as the PGO/armed standoff Cray that I'm used to villaging with. Was just an uneasy feeling before, but now it's a little stronger.
At first read, this struck me as typical village!cray, but it was odd that she "forgot" to include the possibility of v/v interaction.

This was in response to Pippy's GIANT post of one line feelings about specific posts. I'm not sure how applicable "pretty good analysis" was to that.


I'm not putting a ton of stock in interactions with Pippy because that whole situation was so weird and heated, but this gave me minor pings.

I haven't seen Cray post a list of reads like this before without explanations, but I could buy the explanation that it was in case Pippy could actually kill her on her way out. But I haven't seen it before, so I'm making a note of it.

I do kind of agree with this.

This feels like deliberate misinterpretation of my post that she was quoting, given that I was agreeing with someone on how mkg might think bussing is a more common D1 strategy than it really is based on just reading the basics game and saying that I was reading her neutral. I've also been saying that I'm reading Lainey village based on her previous play. It feels like Cray is trying to start building a "shorty hates noobs" case that's based on shaky logic, and it's weird coming from her.

This was in response to Lainey making a really big stretch about the Doggo/Barks D1 joke voting for each other pattern and I don't believe that she actually felt like this was almost legit.

This jumped out at me because while Barks had made a decent point, it wasn't something super mindblowing and I've seen wolves draw attention to similar things. Just another slightly odd thing.

Cray, did you have any interactions with Enigma overnight?
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To be fair, there's always weird sketch shyte I say. I still get mad about it.

My options were to say no or yes. But yes invites questions, and didn't make sense for me to invent "Oh hey no I'm not her mason partner, but see I have this ability to talk one time only to a villager and I thought TME should the one...." like I don't even know. Never expected a village watcher to put me that on the spot quite like that.
 
We'll see if AM remembers the times she yelled at me (or was it genny? Someone) for being too tight lipped about role or night results. Usually you don't get a role reveal and night results out of me until 5 min to lynch.

But not sure it would have helped here, so here we are.
 
WildZoo said:
No cray, how the heck would it make sense for shorty's read on you to change from village if she thought you were her mason partner?
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Because for some reason she's reading this with me as the killer. But if that's true, then TME's mason buddy who is still alive should be able to clear this up for us.
 
I mean, look, if you're telling the truth and I really ****** this one up, I'll own that. It's not like I haven't made mistakes before, and I certainly haven't played the game enough to be able to pick up on the subtleties of things sometimes. But even if I did screw this one up, I don't think it's condemning us to a village loss at D2, which is why I need to do more reading on the significance of a few things. Because I'm not fully understanding THAT attitude.
 
Crayola227 said:
Because for some reason she's reading this with me as the killer. But if that's true, then TME's mason buddy who is still alive should be able to clear this up for us.
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I don't think it was unreasonable for her to read the situation that way. Mixups like that happen with trackers/watchers all the time, that's why they're a lower-level investigative PR.
 
Not sure if I should ask Shorty to say what her night results actually saw me do. I didn't really think about being a mason her getting a result that said anything besides I was talking to someone.

Maybe it's best not to say how the results are reported. I usually rely on Midwife to say the best way to do reveals or report night results. I figured in this case she would have told me personally gig is up give village what you know.

As for shorty, I won't say you should say what you saw, but it definitely wasn't murder. I'm guessing it said I visited someone or was seen talking to someone.
 
So her seeing you interact with TME because you were the other mason was not my immediate conclusion either. Not saying you're lying because I'm leaning towards you telling the truth here, just saying I also think shorty had fair village motivation for questioning you.
 
WildZoo said:
I don't think it was unreasonable for her to read the situation that way. Mixups like that happen with trackers/watchers all the time, that's why they're a lower-level investigative PR.
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I get how it happened. Not so pissy, kinda relieved it's on the table. Was kinda mad too because I'm not a good enough player to know how to dig me and Shorty out of that (assuming village).

Big mix up and I don't totally fault her. I'm very insecure about how I use PRs and reveal night results and all that, actually. It's a sore spot of mine.
 
Crayola227 said:
Not sure if I should ask Shorty to say what her night results actually saw me do.
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It was not very descriptive. I had chosen to watch you, actually, because I thought you were a possible NK target and I'd be able to see who did it. So had to reevaluate big time with night results.

I have no real experience with PRs and will accept all warranted browbeating for any stupids that I commit.
 
supershorty said:
It was not very descriptive. I had chosen to watch you, actually, because I thought you were a possible NK target and I'd be able to see who did it. So had to reevaluate big time with night results.

I have no real experience with PRs and will accept all warranted browbeating for any stupids that I commit.
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I'm sorry I was overly mean.
 
WildZoo said:
I think it's possible cray would jump to claiming mason partner as a wolf in the hopes that she could at least take the real partner down with her, but I think adding in the unconvertible part is a little bit of a stretch in terms of what I would see wolf!cray doing. And her frustration with the whole thing reads genuine to me.
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I guess what confuses me about this whole thing is this: Isn’t the Mason role just a secret PM where you both know you’re village?

If that’s the case I don’t get why Cray feels like that being revealed makes her a target. If she is a Mason, and had the private PM with TME, once TME is dead, then Cray’s is basically just a Vanillager at that point, right? She’s not really a PR threat right?

So when Cray immediately said she was being watched, but being coy about what she was doing, why not just come out and say “I was TME’s Mason Buddy”? I mean, TME is already dead. It’s not like revealing you had a secret PM with a now dead player is going to make you a threat to the wolves

There’s the whole conversion thing Cray brought up, but it wasn’t mentioned in the write up and it was never brought up before Cray brought it up herself.

Now, if she is unconvertible, that would make her more of a target to the wolves, but considering it wasn’t on anyone’s radar, why bring it up at all and paint a target on her own back?

If she had just said she was the Mason partner, it would have alleviated village suspicion about why she was with TME when she died, AND would have told the wolves she wasn’t a PR threat anymore because now that her Mason partner is dead, she’s basically a vanillager.

But now, by self identifying as unconvertible, she’s painted a new target on her own back.
 
supershorty said:
It was not very descriptive. I had chosen to watch you, actually, because I thought you were a possible NK target and I'd be able to see who did it. So had to reevaluate big time with night results.

I have no real experience with PRs and will accept all warranted browbeating for any stupids that I commit.
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So...if you watched cray and saw TE act on her, that's not really a situation where cray being the one to murder TE makes sense. If you tracked cray or watched TE that would be reasonable, but watching cray means you saw who acted on her, not the other way around.
 
I said I was doing nothing *except* what innocent goats to, like being adorbs, to say I was doing nothing bad but like, maybe you saw me do something an innocent goat would do, like talk to a mason partner lol. I wanted to hint that you might have gotten a result, but it was innocent goat actions. I didn't want to be more specific than that. I was trying to prepare you for what you might have seen.
 
Zenge142 said:
I guess what confuses me about this whole thing is this: Isn’t the Mason role just a secret PM where you both know you’re village?

If that’s the case I don’t get why Cray feels like that being revealed makes her a target. If she is a Mason, and had the private PM with TME, once TME is dead, then Cray’s is basically just a Vanillager at that point, right? She’s not really a PR threat right?

So when Cray immediately said she was being watched, but being coy about what she was doing, why not just come out and say “I was TME’s Mason Buddy”? I mean, TME is already dead. It’s not like revealing you had a secret PM with a now dead player is going to make you a threat to the wolves

There’s the whole conversion thing Cray brought up, but it wasn’t mentioned in the write up and it was never brought up before Cray brought it up herself.

Now, if she is unconvertible, that would make her more of a target to the wolves, but considering it wasn’t on anyone’s radar, why bring it up at all and paint a target on her own back?

If she had just said she was the Mason partner, it would have alleviated village suspicion about why she was with TME when she died, AND would have told the wolves she wasn’t a PR threat anymore because now that her Mason partner is dead, she’s basically a vanillager.

But now, by self identifying as unconvertible, she’s painted a new target on her own back.
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The mason partner is a clear villager. Nice to have around in endgame if they can keep themselves hidden.
 
Crayola227 said:
I'm sorry I was overly mean.
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It's okay. I get it, it's WIM, and I know I made mistakes that would be super frustrating to deal with for people who actually know what they're doing.
Crayola227 said:
I said I was doing nothing *except* what innocent goats to, like being adorbs, to say I was doing nothing bad but like, maybe you saw me do something an innocent goat would do, like talk to a mason partner lol. I wanted to hint that you might have gotten a result, but it was innocent goat actions. I didn't want to be more specific than that. I was trying to prepare you for what you might have seen.
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Yeah, I read that as sketchy, but I see how you meant it now. I'm sorry. I hate to lean on the "am noob and stupid" excuse, but it's really true here.
 
WildZoo said:
So...if you watched cray and saw TE act on her, that's not really a situation where cray being the one to murder TE makes sense. If you tracked cray or watched TE that would be reasonable, but watching cray means you saw who acted on her, not the other way around.
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My result didn't indicate anything about who acted on whom. Just that I saw them. And then TME was dead in the morning.
 
Zenge142 said:
I guess what confuses me about this whole thing is this: Isn’t the Mason role just a secret PM where you both know you’re village?

If that’s the case I don’t get why Cray feels like that being revealed makes her a target. If she is a Mason, and had the private PM with TME, once TME is dead, then Cray’s is basically just a Vanillager at that point, right? She’s not really a PR threat right?

So when Cray immediately said she was being watched, but being coy about what she was doing, why not just come out and say “I was TME’s Mason Buddy”? I mean, TME is already dead. It’s not like revealing you had a secret PM with a now dead player is going to make you a threat to the wolves

There’s the whole conversion thing Cray brought up, but it wasn’t mentioned in the write up and it was never brought up before Cray brought it up herself.

Now, if she is unconvertible, that would make her more of a target to the wolves, but considering it wasn’t on anyone’s radar, why bring it up at all and paint a target on her own back?

If she had just said she was the Mason partner, it would have alleviated village suspicion about why she was with TME when she died, AND would have told the wolves she wasn’t a PR threat anymore because now that her Mason partner is dead, she’s basically a vanillager.

But now, by self identifying as unconvertible, she’s painted a new target on her own back.
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If people believe you, and they are likely to if no one comes forward as the partner, you have just become a Confirmed Villager for the purposes of the thread.

Which would be fine, but last game people got cleared by VCA, and conversion can lead to a similar loss if people aren't aware. Can't die with that knowledge, imo.

Confirmed Villagers can only really be removed by NK. They're not easy to shade or yeet, and they can become a trusted Village voice.

Confirmed Villagers don't usually live long after confirmation and die by NK.

This is why being confirmed as a mason partner on thread was so upsetting to me.

Or, don't defend hard and get yeeted with the knowledge I have.
 
supershorty said:
My result didn't indicate anything about who acted on whom. Just that I saw them. And then TME was dead in the morning.
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I'm just describing how the two different roles work because they get mixed up in terms of result interpretation all the time.
 
WildZoo said:
Welp, I have ceased to exist
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I'm sorry
WildZoo said:
Sorry, I meant more like, I hate giving people sketch points for posting more content? Like she's not someone I expect to see post a whole reads list d1 so it's weird, but also might be an attempt to improve engagement with the game as a villager, so I hate giving sketch points for it.
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I'm pretty sure I did it last game and it wasnt sketchy then... I am trying to improve as a player cause usually I am very quiet
Zenge142 said:
Hey @holdthemayo, @sunshinefl, @Doggo Labs, @Barkley13

What are all of your thoughts on the list that Alissa posted?
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Waiting for reasons why she has people in each category. It seems really shallow right now.

I also did not get a tag notificaiton
Dinashadow said:
Thoughts on April now?



Why?

Also @Crayola227 would like to hear your thoughts on dubz then.
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I was reading Pip as frustrated and I was inclined to believe what she was saying was in fact mostly true. I dont have a good explanation, but that was how I was reading the situation.
 
Doggo Labs said:
I'm pretty sure I did it last game and it wasnt sketchy then... I am trying to improve as a player cause usually I am very quiet
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My bad if you did, it was either after I died or I just don't remember it
 
WildZoo said:
Oh, I was a wolf :laugh:
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1613487539516.gif
 
I've got to go to sleep now if I can hope to be around and caught up for yeet deadline.

I think it's all on the table now, but if there any questions let me know.

Also @Zenge142 if by some chance the wolves don't kill me or Shorty, the WIFOM will build until village is forced to yeet us, at least before endgame. So yeah, doomed by NK or by yeet. I'm prepared to face my death by NK, but as a villager you have to despair at your own misyeet and hope it doesn't happen in a way that loses the game. As happened in the last lost game, you lose if you stack up too many sketch villagers who can't be cleared or are policy yeets and you can't get to them all in time before getting to real wolves.
 
WildZoo said:
I think it's possible cray would jump to claiming mason partner as a wolf in the hopes that she could at least take the real partner down with her, but I think adding in the unconvertible part is a little bit of a stretch in terms of what I would see wolf!cray doing. And her frustration with the whole thing reads genuine to me.
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I have a hard time imagining that. Fake mason partner has to be the worst possible role claim. It’s 100% guaranteed to be called out and get yeet Ed.

It would be easier to claim a different role that someone else is less likely to have.

The conversion part worries me more. I’m not convinced that is what Pippys JOAT means.
 
supershorty said:
Ugh she's going to be pissed at me. Bad manatee. Mistakes. :sorry:
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If it makes you feel any better I'm afraid what she'll say to me, and I should actually know how to play better.

I'm just hoping she agrees with me revealing what I know was the way to go. I fear she'll say she always considers conversion at endgame after going through the whole POE anyway, so all my reveal did was plant conversion paranoia D2 and distraction, and that if I was smarter none of this would happen.

Buck up, PRs are one game element that is quite the learning curve. I hate having one lol.
 
holdthemayo said:
I have a hard time imagining that. Fake mason partner has to be the worst possible role claim. It’s 100% guaranteed to be called out and get yeet Ed.

It would be easier to claim a different role that someone else is less likely to have.

The conversion part worries me more. I’m not convinced that is what Pippys JOAT means.
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I've claimed or planned to claim roles I knew existed before if I felt like I was in a losing yeet situation, for the exact reason I stated.

But if you think it's hard to imagine cray faking that as a wolf, then why are you concerned about the conversion part?
 
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