Harvard vs Hopkins vs UCLA (Scholarship)

[a1234567890]

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I'm sorry if this post comes off as insensitive (in a time where many are stressing about landing an acceptance), but I am faced with an extremely difficult, but incredible decision and opportunity. This cycle went a lot better than I anticipated, and I managed to land a seat at these three amazing institutions. I was hoping that some current med students (or others facing similar decisions) could provide some feedback about the institutions. I am attending HMS second look, but was/will be unable to attend JHU or UCLA.

I have received financial aid info for the three institutions.

HMS- 33k per year
JHU- 28k per year
UCLA- Full COA Scholarship

My interests- I am very open to exploring the medical field. However, I am currently interested in surgery and academic medicine. I have also recently become intrigued about the idea of policy work. As far as personal, I have been on the west side of the US, and have never really explored. Though my wife and I can see us ending up on the west coast, we figure this would be a great time to explore the east coast (or else we may never make it).

Harvard
Pros:
+ Dynamic institution at the heart of a medical mecca
+ Great hospital affiliations
+ Excellent opportunities for academic medicine
+ Name recognition
+ Seemingly unlimited opportunities to develop a professional network
+ Boston (seems like a cool city, though I still need to explore)
+ Public transport
+ Beautiful campus
+ Great school for branching out into policy work
+ It was apparent that money was seeping out of this place (does this translate to funding of student interests?)
+ Of the three, I was the most excited (initially) about being accepted here. I seriously think I blew a fuse.
+ The thought of turning down this acceptance makes me very sad. I feel like I may regret that choice for a long time (if I made the choice)

Cons:
- Since I'm married, I may be an outlier compared to the rest of the class (If i recall almost 90% of students are single and live in Vandy
- Interview day was not as welcoming as JHU (though I have heard things are completely different once you are a student)
- Cost is highest of the three
- New curriculum ( I actually am excited about the new curriculum, but I have concerns about how it will be implemented... the new curriculum could either be magnificent or a pain in the rear)
- Not sure how much work students do with underserved population (in this area HMS seemed the weakest of the three).
- Cold weather (and the fact that the sun set at 4 pm when I was interviewing haha)
- I may have to cheer for the Patriots (?)

Hopkins
Pros:
+ Smaller class size
+ This class size was seriously impressive! The first year students were a diverse yet cohesive group of individuals that made me giddy about the school (same at HMS, but not to the same degree)
+ Strongest clinical training of the three??
+ They have been more helpful in reaching out. I don't usually care about getting pampered, but JHU has made me feel like the prettiest girl at the dance (if that makes sense). I think this may translate into more support during 4 years.
+ We would be able to have nicer living arrangements for similar cost (compared to both other schools)
+ Great research
+ Name recognition (although maybe a little less than HMS)
+ Also provides great opportunities for academic medicine
+ Access to Johns Hopkins Hospital
+ Access to underserved populations (I feel it's important for medical schools to help out those people that need it most)
+ Established curriculum

Cons:
- Baltimore. This is the one big downside to this school. If it were me, I would not be as concerned... But since my wife is coming along, I do not want to worry (or have her worry) about whether we will make it home safe.
- My wife is less excited about the possibility of moving here than the other two
- Cost is marginally better than HMS (less money, but JHU would require more family and personal contribution)
- Public transport did not seem great so we would have to take our car (which would be a pain with insurance, maintenance)
- Cold weather

UCLA
Pros:
+ Full COA scholarship. I would feel like a fool to turn down the possibility of graduation debt free.
+ Weather
+ Great hospital network
+ Great access to underserved populations and excellent community outreach
+ Great residency matching (in California specifically)
+ Seemed more of that laid back west coast atmosphere

Cons:
- Location. L.A. is not my favorite. Traffic is unbearable
- If we end up here, we may be lifers in California (I think I would regret not exploring).
- I did not feel as much of a fit here as the other two
- I work with a former faculty member who said UCLA students were having trouble matching to the east coast while he was there (not sure how true this has been historically)
- Landing a job here would be harder for my wife (she is a teacher and California has additional licensing requirements)
- Less funding than the other institutions.

Anyway, I know it's a lot to read. I really appreciate anyone that takes the time to do that and give feedback.

 

[BradyC]

I would not turn down full COA if I were you. That is a transformational in terms of your life after graduating in four years.

 

[TraumaBlonde]

Unless you're heart is in a branch of medicine (like emergency medicine) i would just enjoy my acceptance to Hopkins and accept Harvard. There so many grants and scholarships that'll pay your way. I am currently at Mercer, and was at Duke previously, and I haven't had to pay a cent. (My husband is pleased with that)

 

[solitarius]

Geffen.

 

[breakintheroof]

Wow, awesome choices @a1234567890! Great pros and cons list too, really helpful. I'm considering Harvard so I'll respond to some of what you wrote there.

(Bias alert: I like Baltimore and do not like LA. I didn't apply to JHU or UCLA.)

HMS- 33k per year
JHU- 28k per year

Oh but first, these are costs i.e. loans, including COA, correct? If so, that's not too bad, though still, free med school...anyway, on to Harvard.

Harvard
+ Boston (seems like a cool city, though I still need to explore)
+ Public transport

You are correct here, you shouldn't need a car in Boston, unless your wife works somewhere that requires a driving commute, or you have other considerations. (Kids?)

+ It was apparent that money was seeping out of this place (does this translate to funding of student interests?)

I would guess that it does. But I don't know that JHU would be different, not sure about UCLA.

+ The thought of turning down this acceptance makes me very sad. I feel like I may regret that choice for a long time (if I made the choice)

Personally I agree this is hard, but rationally I think you will forget about it soon after you make the choice. Especially for freakin' JHU or free UCLA!

Cons:
- Since I'm married, I may be an outlier compared to the rest of the class (If i recall almost 90% of students are single and live in Vandy

I'm not sure about the proportion who are married. The numbers I heard are that 80% of first years and 50% of second years live in Vandy. Frankly I don't understand why as it sounds like a restrictive environment. Though I am not married, were I to matriculate, I would not live in Vandy.

- New curriculum ( I actually am excited about the new curriculum, but I have concerns about how it will be implemented... the new curriculum could either be magnificent or a pain in the rear)

Same here.

- Not sure how much work students do with underserved population (in this area HMS seemed the weakest of the three).

Great question. The local public hospital is Boston Medical Center, which is affiliated with BU. I am sure there are ample underserved outreach programs, but I'm not sure what the socioeconomic mix is like at MGH/BWH/BIDMC/CHA.

- Cold weather (and the fact that the sun set at 4 pm when I was interviewing haha)

Don't underestimate this if you've never lived it!

- I may have to cheer for the Patriots (?)

As a transplant you would be all but expected to hate the Patriots, which is the God-given duty of every non-New England American.

 

[a1234567890]

Thanks everyone for the responses!

If I were in your situation, I would pick UCLA because of the scholarship. UCLA is a fabulous school--a dream school for many. It is hard to turn down Harvard though...

EDIT: It sounds like you want to go to Harvard though, and you seem less excited by UCLA. If Harvard feels like the best fit you should go there.

It's not that I am not excited, but the UCLA news was the first one to break. I have had a lot more time to process this one (and honestly, thinking about that much money is not something I can really even fathom due to my family's humble background). I also did not have the ability to stay with hosts at UCLA. My hosts for JHU and HMS were inspiring people. They were both incredibly talented and humble. Their passion for medicine and their respective schools was contagious (After JHU/HMS interview I was absolutely giddy about attending). UCLA did not have that factor on me, so I'm trying to not let that aspect creep in as much (but I think it has to a degree).

Wow, awesome choices @a1234567890! Great pros and cons list too, really helpful. I'm considering Harvard so I'll respond to some of what you wrote there.

(Bias alert: I like Baltimore and do not like LA. I didn't apply to JHU or UCLA.)

Oh but first, these are costs i.e. loans, including COA, correct? If so, that's not too bad, though still, free med school...anyway, on to Harvard.

You are correct here, you shouldn't need a car in Boston, unless your wife works somewhere that requires a driving commute, or you have other considerations. (Kids?)

I would guess that it does. But I don't know that JHU would be different, not sure about UCLA.

Personally I agree this is hard, but rationally I think you will forget about it soon after you make the choice. Especially for freakin' JHU or free UCLA!

I'm not sure about the proportion who are married. The numbers I heard are that 80% of first years and 50% of second years live in Vandy. Frankly I don't understand why as it sounds like a restrictive environment. Though I am not married, were I to matriculate, I would not live in Vandy.

Same here.

Great question. The local public hospital is Boston Medical Center, which is affiliated with BU. I am sure there are ample underserved outreach programs, but I'm not sure what the socioeconomic mix is like at MGH/BWH/BIDMC/CHA.

Don't underestimate this if you've never lived it!

As a transplant you would be all but expected to hate the Patriots, which is the God-given duty of every non-New England American.

Haha, I'm glad that my disdain for the Pats can live on. But to answer your questions, the loan amounts would cover everything (which adds to the dilemma because I would more or less be turning down full tuition need based "scholarship" to both JHU and HMS). Weather is a con, but not unlike what is happening outside of my school right now (I had to walk through a couple of inches of fresh snow to get to the bus this morning).

I'm hoping to get answers about patient socioeconomic diversity at second look (as well as what life as an HMS student would be like living in a place other than Vandy).

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

biased answer: UCLA all the way!!
unbiased answer: Hopkins (as you mentioned, it has a more established curriculum and offers plenty of opportunities to work with underserved communities).

I don't know much about Baltimore, but I'm sure you can find a comfortable and safe living arrangement in the area.
@hellanutella spent some time exploring the area. I'm sure she can provide some insight.

 

[hellanutella]

biased answer: UCLA all the way!!
unbiased answer: Hopkins (as you mentioned, it has a more established curriculum and offers plenty of opportunities to work with underserved communities).

I don't know much about Baltimore, but I'm sure you can find a comfortable and safe living arrangement in the area.
@hellanutella spent some time exploring the area. I'm sure she can provide some insight.

Cyberdyne! I've spent a whopping grand total of 7 days in Baltimore! I'd check with B'mo residents/UMD + JHU students. However, I felt very safe wandering the neighbourhoods immediately south of JHU (Fells, Butcher's Hill, Patterson Park, Canton) even during the wee hours of the night.

Either way, huge congrats on your cycle! I wish I could offer advice but right now it's ~65F in LA and I'm lounging outdoors, so I'm afraid the weather might cloud my judgement. 😉

 

[Earl Simmons]

Ucla!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

! I wish I could offer advice but right now it's ~65F in LA and I'm lounging outdoors, so I'm afraid the weather might cloud my judgement. 😉

And this is precisely why I think you're a good person to ask! You have excellent California options for med school and yet, you're considering Hopkins!!

 

[mmxc132]

Definitely a tough decision but you can't really make a bad choice! I think the question you have to ask yourself is whether or not HMS and Hopkins offer something truly unique that UCLA does not. 4 years is also a long time to be living somewhere so I wouldn't downplay the importance of location in your decision (especially since you have your wife's preferences to think about).

I think it comes down to these main issues:

-How committed are you to academic medicine? If you are definitely interested then I would say that HMS/Hopkins are worth it.
-How important is money? When are you trying to start a family? Remember to consider how much money you'll end up paying back in the end, not the up front cost because that's a huge difference. If you don't mind living a conservative lifestyle and having debt follow you around for a long time then spend the money. If you're starting a family soon and graduating debt free sounds like an incredible, unique, life-changing opportunity (which it is) then take the money and never look back.

I'm facing a similar decision and I'll likely be taking the money because I love the city that the school is in and I really can't pass up being debt free for a slightly better school name (I have no interest in academic medicine). I would definitely pick UCLA, never look back, and laugh all the way to the bank while still getting a degree from an incredible institution. But I'm me and I don't have your goals and interests so you could very well be better suited at HMS or Hopkins.

 

[resiroth]

Definitely a tough decision but you can't really make a bad choice! I think the question you have to ask yourself is whether or not HMS and Hopkins offer something truly unique that UCLA does not. 4 years is also a long time to be living somewhere so I wouldn't downplay the importance of location in your decision (especially since you have your wife's preferences to think about).

I think it comes down to these main issues:

-How committed are you to academic medicine? If you are definitely interested then I would say that HMS/Hopkins are worth it.
-How important is money? When are you trying to start a family? Remember to consider how much money you'll end up paying back in the end, not the up front cost because that's a huge difference. If you don't mind living a conservative lifestyle and having debt follow you around for a long time then spend the money. If you're starting a family soon and graduating debt free sounds like an incredible, unique, life-changing opportunity (which it is) then take the money and never look back.

I'm facing a similar decision and I'll likely be taking the money because I love the city that the school is in and I really can't pass up being debt free for a slightly better school name (I have no interest in academic medicine). I would definitely pick UCLA, never look back, and laugh all the way to the bank while still getting a degree from an incredible institution. But I'm me and I don't have your goals and interests so you could very well be better suited at HMS or Hopkins.

Agreed overall, but academic medicine not only favors the higher end schools, it also favors the "less debt" option. Again, it is comical how low salaries in academic medicine are relative to debt load/compared to clinical. Salaries around 120k are not unusual, and Harvard et al. actually pay you less because they know they can get away with it (90-120k).

I would be shocked if you actually were in any way limited by UCLA, and generally speaking with a CoA scholarship you'll be PAID to go to medical school (come out ahead with 20k or so).

I think you should take hopkins off the table no matter what due to your wife tbh but that's up to her.

Lastly in terms of finances, remember that your loans will accrue interest during your residency and fellowship.

In general my impression is that you're not chasing the most lucrative aspects of medicine (policy work) so seriously consider the debt load, especially if your wife isn't working/you're anticipating her raising the kids etc.

If your wife works that changes things, as she can support you financially during medical school and you'll come out debt free in the end.