Is being a dentist really that bad?

[DDS9994]

Lol that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Unless the income and cash flows are consistent monthly, emergency funds and reserves are definitely needed to help smooth out the seasonal highs and lows. Even for someone as aggressive as myself, I'd think they know that their workforce would leave them in a heartbeat if they can't feed their families.

You get no argument from me.

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[Screwtape]

I don’t own a practice right now. I do run a small business in addition to my associateship.

It’s hard to imagine working less as an owner than an as an associate. Chair side work is almost always reduced, but other responsibilities increase exponentially and we often don’t count them. For example - just going to a local networking event or a dinner with local business owners is time on the clock. Same with any meeting or club or whatever you’re involved in to stay in front of people in your community for the business’ benefit. It all counts as hours in the business and we frequently leave them out when talking to others about how much we work.

Yeah I’m sure it would depend on the situation and your personality. I paid a premium for an established practice with systems in place and a long-term staff. I’m also a fairly laid back dentist who is happy to delegate as much as I can. The few community outreach dinners/events I do are easily offset by the fact that I take more vacation now compared to being an associate.

I’m sure the work life balance would be very different for someone doing a start up or buying a major “fixer upper”. I like convenience and predictability. So I chose a practice to purchase that would provide me with the income (factoring in practice note) I desired with the least amount of effort beyond clinical dentistry. To each their own!

 

[TanMan]

Not a fan of the noisy engine and bumpy ride of a sport car. I’ve just return the leased Model X to Tesla and got this X7. It’s not as fast as your Cayenne but this car makes me feel like I am on airplane. I didn’t think I would ever go back to driving another gasoline car again.

That's a nice looking vehicle! I'm content with my cars right now and nothing seems really inspiring to purchase at this time except a McLaren GT or 720S. Maybe I'll get plastic surgery first so I don't look like I'm having a midlife crisis at my age, hahaha

Dentist lie. They only count their clinical time as working. So if you own a business and provide patient care Monday - Thursday you say you work 4 days we week and forget that you run payroll and go shopping for the business on Friday, and handle calls or go to the office to fix something on Saturday etc.

The work life balance that is typical for most small business owners is the same for dentists with the added stress that if you take a vacation your business basically stops generating revenue while the bills keep coming.

That's definitely true when you're starting up. When your starting up and all you got is sweat capital and not enough money, you definitely have to put in additional time besides the work time. However, during that time, as the schedule fills up, as the hourly income increases, so does the need reduce your time on non-clinical tasks. When you have achieved this zenith of dental office automation, then it no longer becomes additional chores outside your workday. It might cost me more to pay someone else to do it, but in this stage of my practice, it would cost me more to do it myself during my work hours, and when it comes to mission critical stuff, I have some staff trained to fix most anything because I've already fixed things myself at least once already. There are some things that I wouldn't fix myself either due to warranty issues or risk of destroying my hand. Dentists and roofs don't mix. I know a couple that died because they tried to fix their own roof.

However, it is important to know how to fix things yourself in case your staff can't do it, you can still intervene if a field repair needs to be done. Otherwise, delegate it to your staff or 3rd party company. My payroll/timeclock is automated, I go shopping for my own stuff and the office at the same store anyway, and I have everything on autopay and autonotify sent to my emails. As a business owner, you have to have simple ways to check every department, especially AP and AR.

 

[2TH MVR]

Not a fan of the noisy engine and bumpy ride of a sport car. I’ve just return the leased Model X to Tesla and got this X7. It’s not as fast as your Cayenne but this car makes me feel like I am on airplane. I didn’t think I would ever go back to driving another gasoline car again.

I never thought I would see the day you decided to get a GAS car. Especially in Cali. I said this before. My next commuter car will be electric.
As for sportscars. They keep me ALIVE. I need all my senses stimulated. Noise. Mechanical sounds. Bumpy, stiff ride. Twitchy steering. Difficult ingress/egress. Not a fan of the Corvette old man stereotype, but other sportscars. Definitely. Especially small, light cars.

So being a dentist is not bad. Just to keep this relevant . And add some eye candy.

 

[PerioDont]

when you graduate with 500k in debt:

the 3 series that new grads are driving is leased and they are swimming in debt

 

[schmoob]

when you graduate with 500k in debt:

View attachment 348749

the 3 series that new grads are driving is leased and they are swimming in debt

The leased 3 series isn’t THAT expensive. Driving a 30 year old car has its own set of issues. Things break and cost money to repair. If it’s in the shop for more than a day you need to rent a car. The new car is reliable and that’s what you need to get to work to produce. Two crowns a month are enough for the lease payment. For you as a Perio, it’s one procedure.
Plus, if working as a 1099/IC or if you have a practice the lease is a write off.

 

[schmoob]

That's why I love medicine. Half the debt and as long as someone is driven there are lots of semi-competitive specialties that pay big $$ in the right locations. Gas docs near me can make >$500k first year out without any of the headaches of running a business

Gas docs First year out meaning 6 years after graduating? 3 years medicine and 3 years fellowship. Dentists who are also driven are making comparable pay, and have been for the last few years.

Dude you’ve been a med student for 15 months? Chances are most dentists here know more about medicine than you do. You’re on a practicing dentists forum saying how much better medicine is than dentistry. Health care is service oriented and about communication. If you are as much out of your element with patients as you are here then you will have a very difficult time making a good living, regardless of specialty.

 

[PerioDont]

That's why I love medicine. Half the debt and as long as someone is driven there are lots of semi-competitive specialties that pay big $$ in the right locations. Gas docs near me can make >$500k first year out without any of the headaches of running a business

No one is making >500k/yr without going through significant headaches of some sort

 

[bracketbuster68]

MGMA would like to argue otherwise (and it severely underestimates). I literally have seen what doctors in my area make, and it's more than MGMA for "regular work hours"
. View attachment 348761

Lmao go study the krebs cycle

 

[Screwtape]

That's why I love medicine. Half the debt and as long as someone is driven there are lots of semi-competitive specialties that pay big $$ in the right locations. Gas docs near me can make >$500k first year out without any of the headaches of running a business

No one is making >500k/yr without going through significant headaches of some sort

@PerioDont is spot on. My father was an anesthesiologist and I have a younger anesthesiologist attending in my friend group. I am a dentist owner. All of these high paying professions come with headaches. It all just depends which ones you prefer and how many and how large they are. To make those numbers as gas you are most likely going to be working weekends, taking over night call, supervising several CRNAs or AAs, dealing with hospital BS, dealing with the multiple personalities of an OR who you have no control over (surgeons, OR techs, etc), dealing with potential of death/poor outcomes/larger malpractice lawsuits.

I work less than 4 days a week, no weekends, yeah I have small business headaches every once in awhile but I have control over everything so at least I can make things better the way I see fit. Plus lots of tax benefits as an owner.

No doubt some parts of medicine boast some big numbers. But it’s not every specialty and those who do make the big bucks generally have a long or difficult AND competitive residency, followed by a not so cush lifestyle. There are exceptions of course (Derm always comes to mind) and it can depend on your practice location, but all I am saying is you don’t make the big bucks in healthcare as a provider without dealing with headaches. And for me personally, I’d take the “small business headaches” over my physician friends’ headaches. Especially making similar or more based on an hourly rate.

 

[bracketbuster68]

I TA biochem so I don't need to but thanks for the advice

Good one. Now leave before you make yourself look even worse.

 

[schmoob]

I was just making a statement then all of you jumped at me....

What does that say about your statement?

And a correction on my end - when you said gas docs I assumed you were talking GI not anesthesiology, so that was my mistake. Either way, no one here cares.

 

[TanMan]

I never thought I would see the day you decided to get a GAS car. Especially in Cali. I said this before. My next commuter car will be electric.
As for sportscars. They keep me ALIVE. I need all my senses stimulated. Noise. Mechanical sounds. Bumpy, stiff ride. Twitchy steering. Difficult ingress/egress. Not a fan of the Corvette old man stereotype, but other sportscars. Definitely. Especially small, light cars.

So being a dentist is not bad. Just to keep this relevant . And add some eye candy.


View attachment 348698

Thread from the dead.... got another car. I agree about the ride and feel of a sportscar. Nothing beats it in terms of the experience. Electric cars are fast but it just feels... muted. This is my second midlife crisis car since this is a convertible/spider.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

would’ve been better getting a ghibli and putting the rest into an index fund tbh

 

[schmoob]

would’ve been better getting a ghibli and putting the rest into an index fund tbh

Or you can have enough money to not need an index fund and get yourself a McLaren. You only live once.
Another option is to ALSO get the Maserati.

 

[TanMan]

would’ve been better getting a ghibli and putting the rest into an index fund tbh

Only spend money on cars that you can afford to just write off completely (throw away). There's a huge difference in enjoying life in your 30s, 40s, and 50s. I'm not going to be THAT guy that gets all the nice things in life in his 50s because I don't have to. There's a reason these cars are called "daddy cars"

It's not just about the car itself, but all the "experiences" that come with it.

 

[2TH MVR]

Thread from the dead.... got another car. I agree about the ride and feel of a sportscar. Nothing beats it in terms of the experience. Electric cars are fast but it just feels... muted. This is my second midlife crisis car since this is a convertible/spider.

View attachment 355517View attachment 355518

Beautiful car. 570S? VERY fast. At this level .... the car I lust for is the Ferrari 458. Naturally aspirated with a redline near 9000rpms . The Mac turbos tend to mute the sound along with lower rpms. Not near as fast as the Macs, but the 458 SOUND is everything. Beautiful car. Congrats.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Do most of you buy new or used super cars? Since they do seem to hold their value a bit better than normal cars

 

[White_Sponge_Nevus]

Do most of you buy new or used super cars? Since they do seem to hold their value a bit better than normal cars

I have a used 7 year old Honda Fit with 135k miles lmao

 

[schmoob]

I have a super Toyota mid-size SUV. Actually I have 2 (one for my wife). But when the leases are up at the end of the year I’m definitely splurging. I’m going for the full size!

 

[PerioDont]

For all you pre dents salivating over this, I know literally hundreds of dentists, none are driving McLarens or anything close except @TanMan.

Doesn’t mean it’s impossible though, just very very uncommon

 

[schmoob]

I'm not as boss as @TanMan but..
My first ever luxury(debatable😂) car that I bought. I was driving a 15 year old car previously.
View attachment 355548

Hey, it’s nice, it’s quick, and you like it which is all that matters. Enjoy! You’ve earned it!

 

[schmoob]

I think I’ve got the sexiest ride of all…

 

[D1Bound]

For all you pre dents salivating over this, I know literally hundreds of dentists, none are driving McLarens or anything close except @TanMan.

Doesn’t mean it’s impossible though, just very very uncommon

Just do OMS and shuck wizzies. Instant super car and babes.

 

[TanMan]

Beautiful car. 570S? VERY fast. At this level .... the car I lust for is the Ferrari 458. Naturally aspirated with a redline near 9000rpms . The Mac turbos tend to mute the sound along with lower rpms. Not near as fast as the Macs, but the 458 SOUND is everything. Beautiful car. Congrats.

570S Spider. Looks better than plain old 570S that looks like an NSX. I was thinking of the 720S, it has a good rear, but the front is like a butterface.

Do most of you buy new or used super cars? Since they do seem to hold their value a bit better than normal cars

Used. Save lots of money for low mileage vehicles and only a year or two old .I may spend a fair amount of money, but I still like a good bargain.

 

[charlestweed]

Do most of you buy new or used super cars? Since they do seem to hold their value a bit better than normal cars

I can’t afford a super car like Tanman. The affordable price range for me is $100-150k. And I don’t usually buy and pay it in full. I lease a new car every 2-3 years because they are within the warranty period. By the time the waranty expires, I return it and get a new car. I want a good looking reliable car with quiet/comfortable ride for my daily commute and for my family of 4. I wouldn’t buy those supercars even if I could afford them because are too noisy. I just put $5k down payment and the monthly lease payment is around $1300- 1800/month. A day of my salary should easily covers the monthly lease payment. So the total cost for driving a $100-150k car for 3 years is around $50-70k.

 

[2TH MVR]

I usually buy new when my plan is to keep the car for a long time. But these would be practical every day cars. Not super/exotic cars. Plenty of used super/exotic cars on the market. Plenty are barely used since most were garage queens. People who can easily afford these cars usually get the itch for something newer and better and will change out cars. Works out for those of us who want the itch, but can only afford used.

I don't lease cars anymore. I did when I owned multiple practices and could write off a substantial portion as a business expense. The last car I leased was a special order Guards Red Porsche 911 Turbo with 483 horsepower. $2400/month for around 10,000 miles per year. That was many years ago. I don't lease since now I am a Corp employee. For myself and most others .... a lease does not make financial sense. Leases are great if you like new cars every three years and will keep mileage under a pre-detemined amount.

But for a business write-off. Leases make perfect sense. According to my acct .... it is easier to write off a lease amount. If your business owns the car .... then it get messy. You have to keep track of your mileage/maintenance. The car then has to be depreciated to acquire any tax write off.

My daughter against my wishes leased a nice car 3 yrs ago. Due to the chip shortages, supply chain issues, etc. etc. her car was worth more than the residual value on her lease car. She bought the car for the residual value which cost substantially less than if she was to buy the same model car during these times. Timing is everything.

 

[schmoob]

I need a big car. Family of 4, big dogs, groceries, vacations, etc. I’m looking at a Suburban because I’m not at Escalade status yet. I’ve also been interested in the new Grand Wagoneer but I’m the platform is still new and I would like for them to work the kinks out.

 

[charlestweed]

I need a big car. Family of 4, big dogs, groceries, vacations, etc. I’m looking at a Suburban because I’m not at Escalade status yet. I’ve also been interested in the new Grand Wagoneer but I’m the platform is still new and I would like for them to work the kinks out.

Never buy a new car or a car that is in its first year of redesign.

 

[charlestweed]

I usually buy new when my plan is to keep the car for a long time. But these would be practical every day cars. Not super/exotic cars. Plenty of used super/exotic cars on the market. Plenty are barely used since most were garage queens. People who can easily afford these cars usually get the itch for something newer and better and will change out cars. Works out for those of us who want the itch, but can only afford used.

I don't lease cars anymore. I did when I owned multiple practices and could write off a substantial portion as a business expense. The last car I leased was a special order Guards Red Porsche 911 Turbo with 483 horsepower. $2400/month for around 10,000 miles per year. That was many years ago. I don't lease since now I am a Corp employee. For myself and most others .... a lease does not make financial sense. Leases are great if you like new cars every three years and will keep mileage under a pre-detemined amount.

But for a business write-off. Leases make perfect sense. According to my acct .... it is easier to write off a lease amount. If your business owns the car .... then it get messy. You have to keep track of your mileage/maintenance. The car then has to be depreciated to acquire any tax write off.

My daughter against my wishes leased a nice car 3 yrs ago. Due to the chip shortages, supply chain issues, etc. etc. her car was worth more than the residual value on her lease car. She bought the car for the residual value which cost substantially less than if she was to buy the same model car during these times. Timing is everything.

There are a lot of benefits of leasing cars. Like you mentioned before, business write off. You don’t need a large mount money upfront…just need a few grands for down payment and you can drive off the lot with a brand new car. It’s good for people who have good stable income flow like us, dentists. You don’t have to spend too much time to “baby” the car since you don’t own it. You don’t have to look for right buyer who is willing to pay you top dollars your car when you want to get rid of it. The car depreciates quickly during the first 2-3 years…. your lease payments essentially cover the depreciated value. If your car is severely damaged, especially at the front hood where the engine is located, you will end up losing less $$$ if you lease than if you own it.

The only downside is there is limit on the mileage per year. I usually sign up for 20k miles per year…..and pay 25 cents for every mile I go over, which is not too bad.

 

[schmoob]

Never buy a new car or a car that is in its first year of redesign.

You’re absolutely right. I bought a brand new car about 10 years ago and it was the first year it was produced. Extended manufacturer warranty, always. We had so many problems with it it was so frustrating. My wife and I said we will never buy a newly released vehicle again.
That Grand Wagoneer is so nice though… They are releasing a long wheelbase edition later this year adding 12 inches, increasing 3rd row and cargo space. It’s absolutely massive. It’s going to have a special edition twin turbo engine that give it 510hp. I worked hard to be a dentist and I want instant gratification!

 

[Silver_arrow]

You’re absolutely right. I bought a brand new car about 10 years ago and it was the first year it was produced. Extended manufacturer warranty, always. We had so many problems with it it was so frustrating. My wife and I said we will never buy a newly released vehicle again.
That Grand Wagoneer is so nice though… They are releasing a long wheelbase edition later this year adding 12 inches, increasing 3rd row and cargo space. It’s absolutely massive. It’s going to have a special edition twin turbo engine that give it 510hp. I worked hard to be a dentist and I want instant gratification!

Up until now I’ve never heard of the grand wagoneer.

It’s a really good SUV from its specs.

Permanent 4WD (has a transfer case), body on frame construction, full size spare, and a 6.4L V8 NA engine. It’s a true off road capable SUV. There is no way that I would choose the 3.5 L TT engine over the 6.4. I would rush to get the 2022 before they do away with the naturally aspirated engine.
If it had a hydraulic suspension then it would truly be over the top.

No one should buy an SUV that has AWD and a unibody.

The only question is reliability when it comes to the wagoneer.

 

[schmoob]

Up until now I’ve never heard of the grand wagoneer.

It’s a really good SUV from its specs.

Permanent 4WD (has a transfer case), body on frame construction, full size spare, and a 6.4L V8 NA engine. It’s a true off road capable SUV. There is no way that I would choose the 3.5 L TT engine over the 6.4. I would rush to get the 2022 before they do away with the naturally aspirated engine.
If it had a hydraulic suspension then it would truly be over the top.

No one should buy an SUV that has AWD and a unibody.

The only question is reliability when it comes to the wagoneer.

Warranty.

I am actually interested in the Hurricane 3.5TT. If the 6cyl EcoBoost works for the F-150 which is the OG of work trucks, then I’m cool with it. It’s got 40hp over the 6.4L.
I test drove the Wagoneer but it has a different weaker engine and doesn’t have the toys the Grand model does. The 372hp engine left some to be desired when it came to acceleration, which is why I’m curious about the 510hp special edition TT.

 

[charlestweed]

Up until now I’ve never heard of the grand wagoneer.

It’s a really good SUV from its specs.

Permanent 4WD (has a transfer case), body on frame construction, full size spare, and a 6.4L V8 NA engine. It’s a true off road capable SUV. There is no way that I would choose the 3.5 L TT engine over the 6.4. I would rush to get the 2022 before they do away with the naturally aspirated engine.
If it had a hydraulic suspension then it would truly be over the top.

No one should buy an SUV that has AWD and a unibody.

The only question is reliability when it comes to the wagoneer.

If you have doubt about the reliability of a car, you should consider leasing it. I know BMW cars are not reliable because I have driven a lot of them (6 to be exact). So why do I keep going back to BMW? Because they are fun cars to drive….beautiful sporty exterior design, good handling around tight corners, smooth ride, luxurious interior, and free 36-month oil change/maintenance program. Owning these cars outside of the warranty period would be very costly….and a lot of headaches as well.

The only reliable SUV that I would buy and own is the Lexus LX series. That’s why it has very good resale value. The problem is it has an underpowered engine. Another problem is it’s a body on frame SUV. I don’t do any off-roading activity. I am more of a city kind of guy. I prefer the unibody design because it has smoother and more comfortable ride quality.

 

[TanMan]

For all you pre dents salivating over this, I know literally hundreds of dentists, none are driving McLarens or anything close except @TanMan.

Doesn’t mean it’s impossible though, just very very uncommon

Or... they just have a wife/family that doesn't allow them to have a nice car.

Just do OMS and shuck wizzies. Instant super car and babes.

GPs can do it too without the +4-6 years of additional school. I can't imagine going through that much more school.

I usually buy new when my plan is to keep the car for a long time. But these would be practical every day cars. Not super/exotic cars. Plenty of used super/exotic cars on the market. Plenty are barely used since most were garage queens. People who can easily afford these cars usually get the itch for something newer and better and will change out cars. Works out for those of us who want the itch, but can only afford used.

I don't lease cars anymore. I did when I owned multiple practices and could write off a substantial portion as a business expense. The last car I leased was a special order Guards Red Porsche 911 Turbo with 483 horsepower. $2400/month for around 10,000 miles per year. That was many years ago. I don't lease since now I am a Corp employee. For myself and most others .... a lease does not make financial sense. Leases are great if you like new cars every three years and will keep mileage under a pre-detemined amount.

But for a business write-off. Leases make perfect sense. According to my acct .... it is easier to write off a lease amount. If your business owns the car .... then it get messy. You have to keep track of your mileage/maintenance. The car then has to be depreciated to acquire any tax write off.

My daughter against my wishes leased a nice car 3 yrs ago. Due to the chip shortages, supply chain issues, etc. etc. her car was worth more than the residual value on her lease car. She bought the car for the residual value which cost substantially less than if she was to buy the same model car during these times. Timing is everything.

My lawyer has told me don't ever put your vehicles under your business(es) due to the liability that they can generate.

My next purchase is a pickup. Although I want one that's pretty fast and maybe put some carbon ceramic brakes on it.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Or... they just have a wife/family that doesn't allow them to have a nice car.

Couldn’t most people who can afford a mclaren also just buy a gnc or Land Rover for the family though?

I feel like to buy a 200k+ car, one has to be making at least 750k or have 5million in liquid assets. For either of these incomes, adding another car wouldn’t be a problem.

 

[TanMan]

Couldn’t most people who can afford a mclaren also just buy a gnc or Land Rover for the family though?

I feel like to buy a 200k+ car, one has to be making at least 750k or have 5million in liquid assets. For either of these incomes, adding another car wouldn’t be a problem.

Lots of jealous spouses/partners out there that won't let their SO have a nice vehicle for fear of attracting lots of people (namely women). Not saying it's not true nor unfounded, but it's spousal paranoia at its worst. I'll admit, it's definitely a magnet for a specific body part that I probably cannot mention here. One of the fun things about having the car.

Exactly, adding another car isn't a problem. We, as dentists, can easily afford a vehicle like that, but people prioritize other things. An index fund isn't going to make me happy. Having 100MM+ isn't going to make me happy. It's the experiences, living life, having the freedom to do what I want while I'm still healthy is what its all about. Although it doesn't make financial sense if your goal is to maximize wealth, there's only so much money you can enjoy. Think about how much money you really need and how much is excessive. As I've said before, the difference between 10MM and 100MM lifestyles isn't that much far off to be worth killing myself for it.

 

[D1Bound]

Or... they just have a wife/family that doesn't allow them to have a nice car.



GPs can do it too without the +4-6 years of additional school. I can't imagine going through that much more school.



My lawyer has told me don't ever put your vehicles under your business(es) due to the liability that they can generate.

My next purchase is a pickup. Although I want one that's pretty fast and maybe put some carbon ceramic brakes on it.

But can’t shuck wizzies under sedation

 

[TanMan]

But can’t shuck wizzies under sedation

Oh, I meant about the supercar and babes part.

 

[Silver_arrow]

Couldn’t most people who can afford a mclaren also just buy a gnc or Land Rover for the family though?

I feel like to buy a 200k+ car, one has to be making at least 750k or have 5million in liquid assets. For either of these incomes, adding another car wouldn’t be a problem.

You know what they say about land rovers.

95 percent of range rovers made are still on the road today. Only 5 percent made it home.

 

[2TH MVR]

Skip the pimpy Land Rover and get a real vehicle. A Jeep Rubicon Gladiator. My Jeep is a diesel. Comes stock with front and rear lockers and an electronic front stabilizer disconnect. A Mopar 2 inch lift with a 3/4 inch front levelling spacer.

I have new wheels (17's .... no bro-dozer, mall crawler 20's) and 37 inch tall tires on order. Pics to show some real solid axle articulation when everything is installed.

 

[schmoob]

Skip the pimpy Land Rover and get a real vehicle. A Jeep Rubicon Gladiator. My Jeep is a diesel. Comes stock with front and rear lockers and an electronic front stabilizer disconnect. A Mopar 2 inch lift with a 3/4 inch front levelling spacer.

I have new wheels (17's .... no bro-dozer, mall crawler 20's) and 37 inch tall tires on order. Pics to show some real solid axle articulation when everything is installed.

View attachment 355843

Is that your driveway?!?!

 

[2TH MVR]

Is that your driveway?!?!

Yes

 

[Intent]

Periopocket is right. It depends on your work ethic. This new grad GP (First year after AEGD: yearly collection report) makes close to $200k for working only 4 days a week as an associate. If he gets another 1-2 days/week part time job, his associate salary should easily exceed $250k.

It also depends on your skill level. If you work at a busy office and you are fast, you should make plenty of money and you will enjoy your job more. But if it takes you 30-45 minutes to fill a tooth or 2+ hours to do a crown prep, then you’ll have a miserable life. If you can’t multi-task and have poor chair time management skill, then dentistry is a very stressful job for you.

Dude 2 hours is fine fora crown, 1.5 is ideal. It's just sit down and prep, it's get that patient in the chair, get them numb, take your impression, wait for anesthesia if its a lower molar, prep, pack cords, make temp, impress, make it perfect, make temp, cement temp, cleanup, post op instructions etc... depends on what state you're really working in and how well trained your staff is. If you're doing all the aforementioned more or less alone then you will definitely need more time, if your assistant can pack cord and make flawless temps you just bought yourself a lot of time, so it's never one shoe fits all. In fact the worst question on a job interview is to ask an associate how long does a crown prep take? I can prep #5 in a few minutes perfectly...not so easy on a #18 or a #15 when a patient is a gagger, active tongue or heavy cheeks. Front desk staff and tx coordinators think every filling and crown is universally the same in terms of difficulty when it couldn't be further from the reality.

 

[Thehighwind87]

No it’s not that bad. Sure I complain a lot but 4 days a week with a 200-400k income it’s not bad. What’s bad tho is the direction the field is going- lower income, stagnant reimbursement, higher inflation (lower income), along with higher student loans.

We (older docs) have it good. New grads have it bad, and will continue to have it get worse due to debt income ratio along with worse opportunities due to inflation/corporation takeover/lower income. If you asked me pre covid whether I would have my kids follow in my footsteps- I would say- maybe. Now its a definite- absolutely no. New grads really have a raw deal, but hey- they knew all the pros/cons before they entered the field. At the end of the day, its on you.

 

[Splenda88]

Lots of jealous spouses/partners out there that won't let their SO have a nice vehicle for fear of attracting lots of people (namely women). Not saying it's not true nor unfounded, but it's spousal paranoia at its worst. I'll admit, it's definitely a magnet for a specific body part that I probably cannot mention here. One of the fun things about having the car.

Exactly, adding another car isn't a problem. We, as dentists, can easily afford a vehicle like that, but people prioritize other things. An index fund isn't going to make me happy. Having 100MM+ isn't going to make me happy. It's the experiences, living life, having the freedom to do what I want while I'm still healthy is what its all about. Although it doesn't make financial sense if your goal is to maximize wealth, there's only so much money you can enjoy. Think about how much money you really need and how much is excessive. As I've said before, the difference between 10MM and 100MM lifestyles isn't that much far off to be worth killing myself for it.

Do you travel 1st class going overseas (eg., Europe, Asia etc..)?

 

[Thehighwind87]

Do you travel 1st class going overseas (eg., Europe, Asia etc..)?

Tanman is in the top .0001% of dentists. One should not look at dentistry goals like what Tanman has achieved. This is not attainable realistically by any means. It's attainable with some luck and hard work, but the 99.9% dentists not living like this.

Most dentists are lucky to have 10 mil in their accounts before they retire. 1-5 million is more reasonable. We are upper middle class. Not rich by any means.

 

[AONLINE]

Periopocket is right. It depends on your work ethic. This new grad GP (First year after AEGD: yearly collection report) makes close to $200k for working only 4 days a week as an associate. If he gets another 1-2 days/week part time job, his associate salary should easily exceed $250k.

I am a newer grad (graduated in 2021), and I make $200k working 4 days/wk and two Friday mornings (8am-12pm) a month in a pretty saturated metro area. As an associate my job is pretty stressed-free, when I clock out at 4:30 every day I don't have to think about anything job-related. So no it's not that bad. And yes I have thought about getting another part-time job or do locum tenens on my free days, but with my current single lifestyle $200k is more than enough for me so I'd rather just have those free days for myself to enjoy the last few years of my 20's.

 

[Splenda88]

People in medicine and dentistry don't realize how good they have it financially.

Just think for a second about the average guy or gal that is making 35-45k/yr.

 

[Thehighwind87]

People in medicine and dentistry don't realize how good they have it financially.

Just think for a second about the average guy or gal that is making 35-45k/yr.

The reason why dentists compare to other professions is because you are comparing equally to other jobs that have similar education/backgrounds.

You can't compare a neurosurgeon salary to someone flipping burgers. Of course the neurosurgeon has it good.

What you can compare is an 8 years 500k debt 200k salary dental degree compared to a 4 year comp science degree that has 40k debt and a 100-200k salary. Or you can compare 8 year 500k debt 200k dental debt to 12 year medicine 100-300k debt and X amount of income.

Of course dentists, doctors, pharmacists have it good compared to the general population. But we are comparing similar degrees with expertise and time involved.- and when you do THAT. You realize that dentistry is a crappy deal if you have to take on alot of debt.