KCOM vs KCUMB

[Raisenbran]

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Just wanted to quickly clarify the unsaid. KCOM does not have mandatory lectures, they are optional and recordings of them are available online for each class immediately after. The required things are labs and practicals/workshops and the occasional lecture where there is a quiz to take at the beginning (but always told of in advance).

 

[Jlaw]

When we went for a tour, there was students sitting on the floor in the back of the lecture hall and they seemed really cramped. I heard they may expand the lecture halls, is this true or in the works?

Yes they are putting together a master plan which includes lecture hall upgrades, more study spaces, and an expansion of the clinical facilities.

And yeah people sit in the back but mainly just to spread out or because they like to stand up most of the time, there is plenty of room.

 

[Jlaw]

Take attendance for federal loans? Lol cmon now.

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I dunno thats what we were told by the president of the school, not sure why he would lie about it. It does make sense though, especially with more for profit schools popping up....they don't want university of phoenix cranking out MD and DO's at 300k a pop.

 

[Mbeas]

Super rural vs. Super urban.

Outside of Kirksville, it can get "super rural". Kirksville is not "super rural". It's a small town, but we don't go to school on a farm. Plus, there is a university a mile away with ~6000 students, many who go to the bars on the weekends just like any other college kid. There are plenty of people around and lots of connections that can be made.

I'm not blaming anyone for not wanting to live in Kirksville (that's your prerogative), but I just wanted to clarify any implication that there is nothing to do in Kirksville but study and count cows. I consider myself more of a city type (granted, I'm from a small town) and I'm doing perfectly fine here.

 

[MedPR]

I dunno thats what we were told by the president of the school, not sure why he would lie about it. It does make sense though, especially with more for profit schools popping up....they don't want university of phoenix cranking out MD and DO's at 300k a pop.

Did he say if it was for professional schools only? I can't imagine having mandatory attendance in large classes like they have at public universities.

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[Jlaw]

Did he say if it was for professional schools only? I can't imagine having mandatory attendance in large classes like they have at public universities.

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I really couldn't tell you. He just met with our class and said basically that the school was told that they had to be able to document attendance of students receiving federal funds. I don't know the details behind it but there is no reason for them to make it up, I mean its a massive headache for the school having to take manual attendance for 500+ students every day.

 

[MedPR]

I really couldn't tell you. He just met with our class and said basically that the school was told that they had to be able to document attendance of students receiving federal funds. I don't know the details behind it but there is no reason for them to make it up, I mean its a massive headache for the school having to take manual attendance for 500+ students every day.

That's interesting. Perhaps this is part of the reason so many schools with a traditional curriculum integrate some pbl. The small groups have required attendance.

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[felix2929]

Does this mean if i don't take federal loans i don't have to come to class?

 

[toxicwombat]

Can a current KCUMB student please let me know how the feel of the city is? I was only there a day and left right afterwards. Do you feel like you are living urban? The ironic contrast in KCOM and KCUMB living is astonishing actually. Super rural vs. Super urban. I have to say if I was going to choose on location, I would choose RVU 100%. I personally do not like Kirksville or Kansas City. I know living shouldnt be that important but I have first hand seen how living in a bad situation has cost me my grades (aka my MCAT). On another note, I was told that places go FAST in Kirksville and you have to grab houses up months before you move ( I was told Feb.). That seems frightening that I could choose a school but not have somewhere to live also.

That would be the on-campus housing... it's not the end of the world if you don't get those.

 

[MChem]

I know feel like I'm making a mistake no matter what school I choose. :/

 

[MedPR]

I know feel like I'm making a mistake no matter what school I choose. :/

Pay both deposits (or all 3 if you get into RVU) and go to both second look days. In the grand scheme of things the additional deposit(s) is tiny.

 

[dntke1518]

I know feel like I'm making a mistake no matter what school I choose. :/

Don't over think it too much, go with where you felt the best/ most comfortable.

 

[toxicwombat]

Don't over think it too much, go with where you felt the best/ most comfortable.

This. Keep in mind that there isn't a wrong decision here.

Personally, I submitted my deposit to Kirksville and I'm very excited about my decision. But had I not been accepted here, I'm sure I would have been equally excited about attending KCUMB. Or Nova.

You're going to med school. That's what counts. 🙂

 

[Ravizzle]

This. Keep in mind that there isn't a wrong decision here.

Personally, I submitted my deposit to Kirksville and I'm very excited about my decision. But had I not been accepted here, I'm sure I would have been equally excited about attending KCUMB. Or Nova.

You're going to med school. That's what counts. 🙂

+1

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[Ravizzle]

Pay both deposits (or all 3 if you get into RVU) and go to both second look days. In the grand scheme of things the additional deposit(s) is tiny.

Do DO schools do second look days?

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[MChem]

Don't over think it too much, go with where you felt the best/ most comfortable.

That would have been RVU. And that seems to be a bad idea according to SDN and it barely matched to specialities I'm interested in. Maybe I was most comfortable at this one since it was my forth and I wasn't anxious like with the first. And I agree I wish I could pay all deposits and have the convenience of time but I don't have money unless I take out loan. (I know I know being poor and pre-med doesn't mix)

 

[MChem]

Do DO schools do second look days?

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I bet they would give an informal tour if they had time 🙂 maybe not as official as a second look, I would LOVE to do that with at least 3 of my schools

 

[bijoux22]

I bet they would give an informal tour if they had time 🙂 maybe not as official as a second look, I would LOVE to do that with at least 3 of my schools

Kirksville is allowing me to come up and tour again with my significant other and parents 🙂

 

[MedPR]

Do DO schools do second look days?

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With the fat deposits they require they better be doing second look days.

 

[felix2929]

I think that is why they don't. Most MD programs (from my limited experience so i may be wrong) do a second look in the spring towards the end of or after interview season. With the DO programs having such huge deposits I doubt many people are interested in taking a second look at that point.

 

[MedPR]

I think that is why they don't. Most MD programs (from my limited experience so i may be wrong) do a second look in the spring towards the end of or after interview season. With the DO programs having such huge deposits I doubt many people are interested in taking a second look at that point.

This cycle has really turned me off to how many (all?) DO schools handle the application process.

1. The no C- policy is bogus since not all schools have +/-. So much for being holistic.
2. Huge deposits when they know many applicants have already spent thousands of dollars and may have multiple acceptances. They're basically all trying to force students into deciding on a school way earlier than necessary.
3. Many judge you on whether or not you have shadowed a DO. Who cares? Unless you shadowed an OMM DO you saw the same stuff you would've seen shadowing an MD.



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[MChem]

This cycle has really turned me off to how many (all?) DO schools handle the application process.

1. The no C- policy is bogus since not all schools have +/-. So much for being holistic.
2. Huge deposits when they know many applicants have already spent thousands of dollars and may have multiple acceptances. They're basically all trying to force students into deciding on a school way earlier than necessary.
3. Many judge you on whether or not you have shadowed a DO. Who cares? Unless you shadowed an OMM DO you saw the same stuff you would've seen shadowing an MD.



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Your headed to an MD school right?? And I completely agree about deposits! Do they even have deposits at MD? Ridiculous

 

[MedPR]

Your headed to an MD school right?? And I completely agree about deposits! Do they even have deposits at MD? Ridiculous

Yes. And yes, but most of them are like $100 and some schools have 0 deposit. Also, all of the MD schools I've interviewed at (6) have encouraged students to hold on to as many acceptances as they wanted to until they absolutely had to decide. DO schools might claim the same thing, but I'm pretty sure they know it's not likely that someone will pay several $1k+ deposits just to hold onto spots

After learning more about the MD process, I have become very skeptical about the whole "holistic" approach that DO schools have become known for. Between grade cut-offs, large deposits, and "why DO?" interview questions, it seems like DO schools are mainly focused on filling their class with whomever they think/know won't go elsewhere.

 

[felix2929]

Yes. And yes, but most of them are like $100 and some schools have 0 deposit. Also, all of the MD schools I've interviewed at (6) have encouraged students to hold on to as many acceptances as they wanted to until they absolutely had to decide. DO schools might claim the same thing, but I'm pretty sure they know it's not likely that someone will pay several $1k+ deposits just to hold onto spots

After learning more about the MD process, I have become very skeptical about the whole "holistic" approach that DO schools have become known for. Between grade cut-offs, large deposits, and "why DO?" interview questions, it seems like DO schools are mainly focused on filling their class with whomever they think/know won't go elsewhere.

I agree completely however I'm not in your position so I will be attending what I deemed to be my best option in the DO world

 

[MChem]

Ditto. I applied to both MD and DO but DO schools are the only one giving me a chance so they are more holistic in the fact they actually looked pass my MCAT and realized I have a pretty swell application goin on 🙂

 

[felix2929]

I don't think that has to do with being holistic so much as their standards are just lower. Just my opinion
Or maybe that does mean holistic?

 

[Night Hawk]

.

 

[bijoux22]

MedPR i feel like you are just saying this because youve been accepted to MD schools and DO isn't an option for you anymore...

... I am glad that DOs llook at the applicant as a whole, my state school just denied me recently because of my MCAT score. I feel like if they looked beyond that they would have been impressed.

 

[MedPR]

I go to a public university and they make our professors take attendance, regardless of class size. Most of the teachers I've had absolutely hate it. Even says in the something in the catalog along the lines of: If you don't come to class and you won't be eligible for financial aid.

The community college I go to now has a similar rule but it's only for the beginning part of the semester. Like the first two weeks. I think it's for the period that you can drop a class and still get your money back. Once that period is over then attendance isn't mandatory (unless the teacher makes it so).

MedPR i feel like you are just saying this because youve been accepted to MD schools and DO isn't an option for you anymore...

... I am glad that DOs llook at the applicant as a whole, my state school just denied me recently because of my MCAT score. I feel like if they looked beyond that they would have been impressed.

I'm not. I've previously (before even being accepted to DO) posted that I thought he C- cutoff and requirement to shadow a DO were dumb. Had I known the large deposits were unique to DO I would've complained about that too. I only recently discovered MD deposits are tiny though.

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[felix2929]

MedPR i feel like you are just saying this because youve been accepted to MD schools and DO isn't an option for you anymore...

... I am glad that DOs llook at the applicant as a whole, my state school just denied me recently because of my MCAT score. I feel like if they looked beyond that they would have been impressed.

i dunno, im not accepted to an MD school and I'm saying it. Also you got waitlisted at a DO school that specifically said it was because of your MCAT so I think it is fair to argue that the holistic thing varies school to school more so than MD vs DO

 

[MChem]

I don't think that has to do with being holistic so much as their standards are just lower. Just my opinion
Or maybe that does mean holistic?

Ya some schools are low (low average MCAT) yet some are higher than some MD schools butttt that being said they take students of lower gpa and MCAT which I think increases the bias against DOs. I think they should all increase their cutoffs so maybe their reputation would increase

 

[bijoux22]

Ya some schools are low (low average MCAT) yet some are higher than some MD schools butttt that being said they take students of lower gpa and MCAT which I think increases the bias against DOs. I think they should all increase their cutoffs so maybe their reputation would increase

I agree. the DO I just talked to today told me that she thinks schools should accept the high GPA lower MCAT student over the low GPA high MCAT student because the high GPA shows that the student actually has a work ethic and a certain level of intelligence over a variety of both science and nonscience classes and not just a good standardize test taker.

It definitely made me feel better about my crappy mcat score when she said that to me (she didnt know my scores) I feel like I really busted my ass doubling majoring and double minoring and it really didn't do much. i have gotten little or no recognition based on my gpa. I guess it leveled out my mcat but it would have been nice to be recognized from my state school..

 

[bijoux22]

The community college I go to now has a similar rule but it's only for the beginning part of the semester. Like the first two weeks. I think it's for the period that you can drop a class and still get your money back. Once that period is over then attendance isn't mandatory (unless the teacher makes it so).




I'm not. I've previously (before even being accepted to DO) posted that I thought he C- cutoff and requirement to shadow a DO were dumb. Had I known the large deposits were unique to DO I would've complained about that too. I only recently discovered MD deposits are tiny though.

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I agree that its dumb. and I agree that the deposits are dumb. but being private schools they can pretty much do what they want .. whats SLU's deposit do you know? are MD private schools higher?

 

[MedPR]

I agree that its dumb. and I agree that the deposits are dumb. but being private schools they can pretty much do what they want .. whats SLU's deposit do you know? are MD private schools higher?

SLU is a $100 refundable deposit. I haven't noticed a pattern in public vs private.


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[MedPR]

I agree. the DO I just talked to today told me that she thinks schools should accept the high GPA lower MCAT student over the low GPA high MCAT student because the high GPA shows that the student actually has a work ethic and a certain level of intelligence over a variety of both science and nonscience classes and not just a good standardize test taker.

It definitely made me feel better about my crappy mcat score when she said that to me (she didnt know my scores) I feel like I really busted my ass doubling majoring and double minoring and it really didn't do much. i have gotten little or no recognition based on my gpa. I guess it leveled out my mcat but it would have been nice to be recognized from my state school..

I disagree. GPAs vary wildly from institution to institution and even within the same institutions because of different major and different professors. The MCAT is the same for everyone. It is the only standardized part of our entire application and being a good standardized test taker does not necessarily yield a good MCAT score.

Of course I'm one of those low gpa/high mcat people so I am a tad biased.



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[bijoux22]

I disagree. GPAs vary wildly from institution to institution and even within the same institutions because of different major and different professors. The MCAT is the same for everyone. It is the only standardized part of our entire application and being a good standardized test taker does not necessarily yield a good MCAT score.

Of course I'm one of those low gpa/high mcat people so I am a tad biased.



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LOL I am a tad bised the other way 😎

 

[cliquesh]

Gpa is overrated. A nuclear engineer major with a 3.0 is probably a better student than a psych major with a 3.7, but you wouldn't know by only looking at their gpa. More weight should be put on the mcat instead of gpa. However, the mcat is pretty unrelated to medical school, and it is nothing like the usmle/comlex. I'm not talking about the material. The skills they test are completely different.

 

[Mosonik]

Gpa is overrated. A nuclear engineer major with a 3.0 is probably a better student than a psych major with a 3.7, but you wouldn't know by only looking at their gpa. More weight should be put on the mcat instead of gpa. However, the mcat is pretty unrelated to medical school, and it is nothing like the usmle/comlex. I'm not talking about the material. The skills they test are completely different.

Different is music to my ears

 

[MChem]

I disagree. GPAs vary wildly from institution to institution and even within the same institutions because of different major and different professors. The MCAT is the same for everyone. It is the only standardized part of our entire application and being a good standardized test taker does not necessarily yield a good MCAT score.

Of course I'm one of those low gpa/high mcat people so I am a tad biased.



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Totally opposite high gpa/low MCAT person. Killed me since I was a straight A student but couldn't get that MCAT done right. I guess I'm bad at standardized tests?? Who knew! Difference is....you can get into an MD with high MCAT and low GPA and I CAN'T with my high gpa and low MCAT 🙁

 

[MChem]

Gpa is overrated. A nuclear engineer major with a 3.0 is probably a better student than a psych major with a 3.7, but you wouldn't know by only looking at their gpa. More weight should be put on the mcat instead of gpa. However, the mcat is pretty unrelated to medical school, and it is nothing like the usmle/comlex. I'm not talking about the material. The skills they test are completely different.

I agree with that gpa justification. Also...I sucked at verbal so I'm pretty positive I won't need that in med school like you said 🙂 good thing I am a science nerd and I know how to rock that material! There's still a sliver of hope for a high USMLE/COMLEX score yay!

 

[MedPR]

Totally opposite high gpa/low MCAT person. Killed me since I was a straight A student but couldn't get that MCAT done right. I guess I'm bad at standardized tests?? Who knew! Difference is....you can get into an MD with high MCAT and low GPA and I CAN'T with my high gpa and low MCAT 🙁

You could if you were a URM like me.

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[MChem]

I'm an URM bc I'm poor!!! Poor people don't go to medical school! Haha I bet I'm way poorer than most URMs. Thank god for free secondaries or I wouldn't have even applied to all these schools 🙂

 

[toxicwombat]

I disagree. GPAs vary wildly from institution to institution and even within the same institutions because of different major and different professors. The MCAT is the same for everyone. It is the only standardized part of our entire application and being a good standardized test taker does not necessarily yield a good MCAT score.

Of course I'm one of those low gpa/high mcat people so I am a tad biased.

Completely agree. The MCAT is far from a perfect assessment, but at least it's standardized.

 

[toxicwombat]

This cycle has really turned me off to how many (all?) DO schools handle the application process.

1. The no C- policy is bogus since not all schools have +/-. So much for being holistic.

What policy is this? None of the schools I interviewed at seemed to care about my C- 😕

 

[dntke1518]

What policy is this? None of the schools I interviewed at seemed to care about my C- 😕

I'm curious about this as well, its is probably true regarding pre-req classes, I wouldn't imagine a MD school looking the other way on a pre-req below a C- either...

 

[bijoux22]

i agree with that gpa justification. Also...i sucked at verbal so i'm pretty positive i won't need that in med school like you said 🙂 good thing i am a science nerd and i know how to rock that material! There's still a sliver of hope for a high usmle/comlex score yay!

1

 

[MedPR]

What policy is this? None of the schools I interviewed at seemed to care about my C- 😕

I don't remember all of them, but CCOM for sure has 0 tolerance for pre-reqs C- or worse. At least that's what the dean told me when I called.

I'm curious about this as well, its is probably true regarding pre-req classes, I wouldn't imagine a MD school looking the other way on a pre-req below a C- either...

None of the schools I applied to have a cut-off. Some DO schools will absolutely reject you just for C- in pre-reqs.

 

[michow87]

A C- is under a 2.0 and is thus failing. What is so surprising about a medical school not accepting a student that has failed a core science course?

Remember that medical schools generally accept those that they think will be a good fit for their program AND that they think will matriculate and succeed. Failing a core science course indicates that the applicant may not be able to handle the rigors of medical school. Is this ridiculous? Absolutely not. There are a ton of applicants in every pool and as a result, the admissions committee is tasked with utilizing certain criteria to filter said pool. Why choose an applicant that can't handle a core science course when you can choose someone who can?

 

[angldrps]

What policy is this? None of the schools I interviewed at seemed to care about my C- 😕

A lot of the schools won't accept a C- for a prereq. As for nonprequistites, I never checked so have no idea.

 

[MedPR]

A C- is under a 2.0 and is thus failing. What is so surprising about a medical school not accepting a student that has failed a core science course?

Remember that medical schools generally accept those that they think will be a good fit for their program AND that they think will matriculate and succeed. Failing a core science course indicates that the applicant may not be able to handle the rigors of medical school. Is this ridiculous? Absolutely not. There are a ton of applicants in every pool and as a result, the admissions committee is tasked with utilizing certain criteria to filter said pool. Why choose an applicant that can't handle a core science course when you can choose someone who can?

Not all schools have +/-. The reason C- cut-off is dumb is a 70% at a +/- school is a C- while the same 70% at another school is a solid C. Also, 70% isn't failing. The arbitrary designation that C- is automatically worse than C doesn't make any sense.

Also, as far as the rest of your post goes, why take someone who gets <25 on the MCAT when 25 is the average of all test takers? "C" is generally considered an average grade, so C- is below average. Can't take people with a below average grade, but you can take people with below average MCAT scores? Doesn't make sense.

Edit: Anyway, the point I was making is that DO schools having a more holistic process is bogus. Yes, DO schools have lower GPA/MCAT cutoffs than MD schools, but they also disqualify applicants for many more insignificant reasons (C- in a single pre-req, no DO shadowing, no DO/MD LOR, good reason for wanting to be a physician but not for wanting to be a DO specifically) than MD schools do. IMO having specific automatic disqualifiers is the polar opposite of "holistic".