Kirby - Game Thread

[NateTheLesser]

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Mayo trying to tie Dubz and Jay together looks more interesting now..

 

[DrWilgy]

Out of all the votes on Dubz, I believe there will be at least one wolf, and I feel the worst about the Doctor at this time

Yeet Dr. Wilgy

Why would it be me though? I quite literally tied the vote for Dubz with Mayo on a wim that we'd have two competing wagons

 

[samac]

Also I wonder if actions are loud and anyone can share with the class if they were acted on so that way village can know what set up we’re playing under because the wolves already know since their set ups are all different.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Agreed, he was very sus yesterday.

Does anyone know if he has a history of bussing?

Wilgy is capable of just about anything. He is an agent of chaos. I wouldn't say he is particularly predisposed toward bussing, but sure he'd do it if he felt like it.

 

[DrWilgy]

I do think Wilgy's vote is in a prime bus position. Doesn't have to be an emergency, but I understand your view.

"Prime bus position" is alot of words for nothing.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Prime bus position" is alot of words for nothing.

I just expanded, so you'll see. If you saw what I did in the previous game, I think you'd understand.

 

[DrWilgy]

I don't think I'd be personally as inclined to bus when I'm in a new environment with new people. Take that fwiw.

I really don't put my W teammate to the same vote tally as the cw like ever though.

 

[moonstermash]

I mean really? PSV pushed Dubz early I actually said in my role Pm I bet PSV dies tonight it seems like the most obvious choice.

I only reread EOD and the first few pages, and I didn’t remember this. JJJ’s gamestate read on Dubz wagon felt strong after the flip, plus he’s an experienced player in general. I’ll take your word for this, though; IDK if I’ll have time to reread all of D1 and keep up with today.

 

[NateTheLesser]

yeet boq

I agree a 7 person wagon might have some beep beep and I don’t think it’s pip or Zenges.

Technically Boq was there first

 

[moonstermash]

Also I wonder if actions are loud and anyone can share with the class if they were acted on so that way village can know what set up we’re playing under because the wolves already know since their set ups are all different.

If this is the exact champs setup, actions shouldn’t be loud.

 

[samac]

Technically Boq was there first

I know. I was looking yesterday
He threw a dubz vote on the board with little exposition early on and then later moved it. I’ve done similar things to a wolf partner.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sad to (correctly) reverse my read on PSV only to have them die overnight, but oh well. Was also expecting JJJ to die instead, but IDK what all the possible PR interactions were, plus he did have votes on him. Suppose I’ll read the setup fully today.

I would have been pretty surprised to die. I'm not sure why I would die in this situation, in this place.

 

[NateTheLesser]

Also I wonder if actions are loud and anyone can share with the class if they were acted on so that way village can know what set up we’re playing under because the wolves already know since their set ups are all different.

Actions aren't loud in champs, so I would doubt it.

 

[holdthemayo]

Sad to (correctly) reverse my read on PSV only to have them die overnight, but oh well. Was also expecting JJJ to die instead, but IDK what all the possible PR interactions were, plus he did have votes on him. Suppose I’ll read the setup fully today.

NK analysis is always iffy, but PSV seemed like an obvious choice.

Why do you think JJ was a likely target? If village they seem like one of the least likely targets.

 

[NateTheLesser]

I know. I was looking yesterday
He threw a dubz vote on the board with little exposition early on and then later moved it. I’ve done similar things to a wolf partner.

When I have time for some reading I'm interested to see what the thread position of Zenge on Dubz was when Boq moved his vote off (I know it was before Zenge actually placed the vote). I'm assuming Dubz' partners would be well aware of the reading card and paying attention to where Zenge's read is at.

 

[DrWilgy]

PSV dying just seems to make sense to me. It was either then or Zenge as those two were the ones that I at least saw present genuine suspicion on Dubz while other votes were more sheepish.

 

[holdthemayo]

I get it. It's controversial to say "votes are stupid, I don't care about them". That's how I really feel though, within reasonable boundaries. I think people vastly overweight votes and it's why bussing ever works at all. I just used that rationale to win the last game.

On a website where many peoples meta is to never bus, VCA can be extremely useful. Even with people who do bus, if you know that VCA is still a useful tool.

I didn’t play last game so references to it are meaningless to me.

But the overall point was, that seemed like damage control. As does your somewhat conciliatory tone this morning.

 

[DrWilgy]

Like, was anyone going to actually argue that they both weren't locktown after yesterday?

 

[moonstermash]

I would have been pretty surprised to die. I'm not sure why I would die in this situation, in this place.

Well, apparently I don’t have the best view on yesterday, so *shrug*. But if you are town (which I feel pretty good about now), and my sus of you helped contribute to you living, I’ll take that ironic win.

NK analysis is always iffy, but PSV seemed like an obvious choice.

Why do you think JJ was a likely target? If village they seem like one of the least likely targets.

He seemed a lot more towny after the flip, especially his EOD read on Dubz and the gamestate. Plus, he is probably the scariest player to me here by reputation. (TBF, I don’t know most of you.) I know he was getting sussed (including by me), but that didn’t outweigh the other factors for me.

I acknowledge that this is apparently an odd take, though. *shrugs*

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

On a website where many peoples meta is to never bus, VCA can be extremely useful. Even with people who do bus, if you know that VCA is still a useful tool.

I didn’t play last game so references to it are meaningless to me.

But the overall point was, that seemed like damage control. As does your somewhat conciliatory tone this morning.

Wield VCA as you please. I am not going to stop you. I just won't be giving it the same weight you do.

If whatever I am doing looks like "damage control", sure whatever. I am not going to emerge from a largely wrong Dubz read on Day 1 and come out here firing again with the same fervor. I recognize the game state in general and for myself. I will still solve in my own way. If you are town I don't get the impression you're going to be moved by whatever I do today, so go ahead and do what you do. I'm not worried about that.

 

[DrWilgy]

Day 1 Yeet Tally
Zenge () -
Pippy (1) - dubz 125
mayo (3) - JJJ 125, Nate 25, moon 34
samac () -
moth () -
dubz (7) - Zenge 125, samac 119, PSV 80, Wilgy 84, Boq 125, Pippy 64, Dina 27
JJJ (1) - mighty 18
Nate (1) - genny 66
Wilgy (1) - moth 68

14/15
Missing: mayo 42
yeet close in ~2 hours

Something to be mindful of, we were already basically yeeting Dubz 2 hours prior to EoD.

Does the slight wave of movement towards JJJ instead of Mayo who had votes at this time mean anything?

I intend on some more elaborate VCA when I'm at a computer.

 

[holdthemayo]

Well, apparently I don’t have the best view on yesterday, so *shrug*. But if you are town (which I feel pretty good about now), and my sus of you helped contribute to you living, I’ll take that ironic win.

He seemed a lot more towny after the flip, especially his EOD read on Dubz and the gamestate. Plus, he is probably the scariest player to me here by reputation. (TBF, I don’t know most of you.) I know he was getting sussed (including by me), but that didn’t outweigh the other factors for me.

I acknowledge that this is apparently an odd take, though. *shrugs*

Do you mind linking the posts you are referring to? I don’t remember seeing anything that a wolf wouldn’t know and share when they know a packmate is going down, but I could have missed something.

 

[genny]

It was a high-leverage tie breaking vote on a controversial wagon

No, it was a tie-making vote. Boq was the tie-breaking vote after I suggested he rev that bus

 

[genny]

I will be voting for Boq today. Will pull quotes later. Could also go for JJ.

 

[NateTheLesser]

Like, as much as I generally don't put a whole lot of stock in "reading cards" (especially other people's reading cards), I think it's significant to keep in mind when looking back at thread state here because Dubz/partners were likely approaching things with the assumption that Zenge's read would determine whether they had to bus or not.

 

[NateTheLesser]

(I have meetings, I'll be back later)

 

[moonstermash]

That's because Dubz is wolfing.

Uh oh.

How serious was this read? I think it was the first solid Dubz wolf read in thread. But then you voted Pippy first, and ended up off wagon at EOD, which confuses me a little.

 

[Animal Midwife]

Day 2 Yeet Tally
Wilgy (1) - Pippy 3
Boq (1) - samac 4

2/13
yeet close in ~35.5 hours

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dubz/Mayo interactions

Dubz on Mayo:

Spoiler

It's too soon 😱 but probably tbh


It is for me!

Anyway I was more referring to wagon composition than specific player meta.


See, mayo gets it!



Did she not do her villageriest villager to ever village thing in PaWWsta? Dang I should have noticed that if so.

village
wolf
village
village
wolf

In a gun to head world, yeah. He's neutral for me in reality but that's illegal.

Pippy, mayo, moon, samac are my focus atm. Idk if that's in order, but top choice would be...where I'm voting.

I'm saving my last pre-EOD post for a couple hours from now but I'll be lurking 👀

The middle two posts probably say the most. Dubz gave mayo a "wolf" GTH read and qualified it as neutral when samac pressed her over it. I don't know that this says anything about mayo in isolation, but it is interesting when paired with Dubz's GTH read of Nate (village). If neutral=wolf for mayo, then that would suggest Nate wasn't neutral. Or he was neutral but got the opposite read for reasons. Will revisit in the Nate review.

Otherwise there's not much here. mayo was a reasonably available target to be pushed if he is town, and Dubz barely participated in that push per the last post. She was careful about it in that pile of four names, so shrug.

mayo on Dubz:

Spoiler

I think Dubz is unlikely to strongly wolf read a packmate this early in a game. I don't think her and moon are compatible.

I don't think her and Samac are either.

I agree with JJJ and would happily vote there, but haven't made it to the Dubz wagon yet.

Strongly pinged. Both JJJ and WZ are going for the low hanging fruit at the time they answered this. Pippy was being widely wolf read and I had not made a serious post yet. Which is something Dubz at least should know is not a wolf tell for me, but rather a busy/bad day at work tell.

I'm fine with the Dubz vote, but that wagon doesn't need me. I'll shift for self prez, but in the interest of having a vote on the board.

Yeet JJJJJJJJJ

There's not much to it. mayo was strongly pinged by Dubz (and I) in the GTH exercise. I have suspected that this was a convenient posture given the climate that had developed in light of Zenge voting Dubz (and suggesting my association with her). This is meaningless right now to people that don't know my alignment, but perhaps it will be something to revisit later. I also acknowledge that it's possible mayo was influenced by Zenge even if he is town, because the developing thread climate could impact someone's hunt in that sense. So I will cool my jets by comparison to yesterday's yelling. I think there's a case there, but it's not something ear-splitting.

Conclusion

From a POE perspective, I would not clear mayo on the basis of Dubz interactions. He doesn't have to be her teammate though.

 

[moonstermash]

Do you mind linking the posts you are referring to? I don’t remember seeing anything that a wolf wouldn’t know and share when they know a packmate is going down, but I could have missed something.

Yeah, when/if my cat decides to free me so I can get on desktop.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

No, it was a tie-making vote. Boq was the tie-breaking vote after I suggested he rev that bus

Noted, thanks.

 

[holdthemayo]

Yeah, when/if my cat decides to free me so I can get on desktop.

specifically related to the fact that his read on DubZ was wrong (he’s admitted) and you ended the day voting for him.

Wanting to understand that journey

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My face value read of Boquise is "seems very town". I admit though that his reads were very similar to mine, and so were Dubz's reads. So. It's possible I was a patsy for both of them. I dunno about that, but it's something I'm chewing on instead of just holding fast to my previous instinct.

 

[holdthemayo]

Dubz/Mayo interactions

Dubz on Mayo:


The middle two posts probably say the most. Dubz gave mayo a "wolf" GTH read and qualified it as neutral when samac pressed her over it. I don't know that this says anything about mayo in isolation, but it is interesting when paired with Dubz's GTH read of Nate (village). If neutral=wolf for mayo, then that would suggest Nate wasn't neutral. Or he was neutral but got the opposite read for reasons. Will revisit in the Nate review.

Otherwise there's not much here. mayo was a reasonably available target to be pushed if he is town, and Dubz barely participated in that push per the last post. She was careful about it in that pile of four names, so shrug.

mayo on Dubz:


There's not much to it. mayo was strongly pinged by Dubz (and I) in the GTH exercise. I have suspected that this was a convenient posture given the climate that had developed in light of Zenge voting Dubz (and suggesting my association with her). This is meaningless right now to people that don't know my alignment, but perhaps it will be something to revisit later. I also acknowledge that it's possible mayo was influenced by Zenge even if he is town, because the developing thread climate could impact someone's hunt in that sense. So I will cool my jets by comparison to yesterday's yelling. I think there's a case there, but it's not something ear-splitting.

Conclusion

From a POE perspective, I would not clear mayo on the basis of Dubz interactions. He doesn't have to be her teammate though.

Thanks for reminding me of my post from yesterday. I can’t recall DubZ ever calling a packmate a wolf on D1 before. Especially before the wagon was rolling.

As much to prove my reason for clearing moon and confirming again my feels on Pippy, as to help reinforce my affiliation.

@genny @samac @PippyPony @Zenge142 and anyone else who plays regularly with her.

Am I right about that?

 

[genny]

How serious was this read? I think it was the first solid Dubz wolf read in thread. But then you voted Pippy first, and ended up off wagon at EOD, which confuses me a little.

I meant it when I said it, but then Dubz said things that made me feel better so I dropped it. I think Zenge was actually the first to mention it, a few posts above mine.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dubz/Nate interactions

Dubz on Nate:

Spoiler

village
wolf
village
village
village

Hmmm

unyeet pippy yeet Nate

Anyway

Not actually interested in the Nate vote, just wanted to see what would happen if I moved there. Results...unexpected, particularly no one even asking me about it lol

I wanted to give some more thought to mothy if PSV felt strongly there, but with her being unsure I'm leaning on my own read. Still think moth is just noob village.

Think I'm almost at post cap now so uh guess if this is still a thing I'll muster the energy for yeet armor at EOD.

unyeet Nate yeet pippy

This is kind of fascinating. Dubz was the only person in the GTH exercise to call Nate town. Then she went on this little excursion to vote and unvote Nate "to see what would happen". There's a lot of wifom in that, but I think it might be a good thing for Nate? Given that Nate was a 5-1 mafia read in the GTHs, perhaps Dubz thought he would be the obvious choice to pursue a miss-vote. When it didn't catch on, she walked it back and gave the "reaction test" excuse. I grant that's speculative, but I kinda feel it. Maybe. Other perspectives greatly appreciated here.

Nate on Dubz:

Spoiler

Hi Boq. You flirted with me but now you're back to Dubz?

I just didn't have much time for the game yesterday (Saturday) until fairly late. Did some occasional reading of the latest in the afternoon, around p10 or so, which was where you placed your Dubz vote and went to bed. Which I found interesting, because your "meh" reads on Pippy/Mothy and scum read of Dubz seemed pretty outside the consensus (or at least the consensus as represented by Pippy/Mothy being the main wagons at the time). One thing I looked for when I came back later was whether that shook up the wagons at all, and it didn't seem to (my underlying thought being, if Pippy and/or Mothy were a wolf in danger, sheeping you would be a good way to shift attention off of them).

Didn't do a whole lot of backreading, just the few pages that had come in since I last checked in the afternoon, and then dipped into the first few pages of the thread. From the early pages I could see the Pippy sus (Zenge vote is hollow, which was part of my problem with Mayo, and it was basically just her vote and then getting spicy when pressed). Of the other people active on the first few pages I felt least good about samac and Dubz, for reasons that I don't know if I have a solid explanation for yet. With samac, part of what pinged me was opening by talking about how she was planning to play differently, because I think if she's a wolf coming off a very solidly townread game, it could read as a way to get ahead of explaining why she sounds different.

So that's where my head's currently at but I have some significant thread gaps still so I'm working on that.

I'm not sure I agree with your worldview, but I like that it's internally consistent. (Like, it makes me think you're being genuine and not just setting up pushes)

I get disliking the reading card as a reason to sheep onto Dubz, that's fine. Can you expand on why you have her as neutral/town?

Not a whole lot on this side. I highlighted the sentence that strikes me as most interpretable, but I don't actually have an interpretation for it beyond "ehhh?" So this is pointless. It's decent to voice some doubt about Dubz, I suppose, even if the broader explanation was about doubting samac instead.

Conclusion:

This is most interesting from the Dubz side of the equation. I think it might be a good thing for Nate. I would still probably POE him just because there's wifom all over that judgment, but he might not be my highest priority today. I would greatly appreciate external views about this one.

 

[DrWilgy]

Oh, while I'm thinking on it I figured I'd notate it.

My Dubz vote was weird, but the players that seemed to have an outward opposition to the weird vote was Genny and Dina from what I recall. I'll go back and see if that's true or not, but seems important to at least iterate.

 

[motheatenlysis]

Sorry for ghosting last night guys. I got busy with late night Easter activities and realized at 9:05 I missed vote close.

 

[moonstermash]

Sorry for ghosting last night guys. I got busy with late night Easter activities and realized at 9:05 I missed vote close.

Have you read the rest of the day? What’s your perspective on it? (In your last post you sussed PSV and town read Dubz; I’ll assume that’s changed at least. 😉)

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Dubz/Wilgy interactions

Dubz on Wilgy:

Spoiler

I asked because Zenge doesn't usually vote that early so the fact that he did to my mind meant there must be something pretty significant pinging him. Included genny because she hadn't talked about pippy at that point.

Ah I missed that post, happens on mobile

Was gonna comment on the lowposters thing but...that's been done. So just noting that was also my initial reaction.

Wolf village
village
village
wolf
village

Groce tbh

Village lite, village, wolfy, neutral, village, wolfy, neutral

Independent, I haven't looked into pairwise interactions.

Some of that may be difficult to follow just given the quoting and search functions here. These either are about Wilgy or responses to Wilgy. This is another case where Dubz's GTH rationale is inconsistent (which could be attributed merely to the fact that they were fake). She was neutral on Wilgy in that second-last post but GTH town read him (while being neutral on mayo and GTH wolf reading him). There's not much else happening here to talk about.

Wilgy on Dubz:

Spoiler

Dubz is WildZoo yes?

Probably won't have time to in depth read before EoD.

Can someone please iterate as to why the Dubz wagon exists?

unyeet Pippy
yeet Dubz

May as well make it a tie

Something to think about.

If Dubz is wolf, they've just had a slow momentum all day. Does this imply that their teammates have decided to not attempt a save?

Or is this pivot away from Mayo wolf supported?

I'd be more comfortable with those two wagons. I had Dubz as a slight tr early in, but seeing as others who know better have advised different and I've not yet completed ISO, I'd say I sit on the Dubz wagon as a neutral observer.

I do feel that there's likelier W in Pippy/Mayo at least.

~~~

Ah, Pippy, new friend, I do not wish to inspire feelings of offence in you. Half of this is presentation and play style. Assuming you are town, we are just likely not in sync on how I read others and how you present data.

Assuming you are W... Well, not really sure how to respond to this.

Regarding your lack of Solvey energy from my perspective, I believe that I've noted a pocket on JJJ following your potential perspective slip, and a push on WildZoo and Genny.

While I don't think you are incorrect on pushing WIldZoo and Genny, I can't recall why, and thus the energy isn't present.

Well, I do think the "pushing WIldZoo and Genny, I can't recall why, and thus the energy isn't present." may be more important to respond to in terms of me solving you.

Not really. I don't think the tension is what was in question, but more so why did WildZoo pose the question on Pippy specifically.

It's worthy of note because Pippy has been in the light and has already drawn thread tension by the time the questions pop up. While I cannot draw alignment data in current from this exchange, I think I will be able to eventually.

Yup!

I see at least trends that look like solving from most players who are present. I'd say that the ones I feel like I may be wrong on are WildZoo, Zenge, or Mighty, but as it stands I wouldn't toss em.

I'm pretty sure Genny was one of the players that suggested a potential perspective slip from Pippy prior to this.

See #163

To address the entire post, so your thoughts are:
PSV - hedgey
Mighty - Strong TL
Nate - null (this one is fair)
JJJ - tinfoil
Zenge - null
Wildzoo - null
Dina - null
Genny - goofy null
Pippy - hedgey
Moon - TL
Mayo - TL
Moth - TL
Me - null with passion

That's like 5 actual reads out of a list of 13, so why format it as such to include everyone besides for attempting to appear solvey?

I can see it. I don't like that momentum has gone away from Pippy to a more null slot and Samac had a part in it.

Town
Town
Scum
Scum
Me

These aren't entirely in order. The tildes ~~~ separate the "Dubz" and "WildZoo" mentions.

The things I highlighted in orange are fun. "What's up with the Dubz wagon?" followed by "vote Dubz" in the space of about one minute. I am going to call that NAI for someone like Wilgy. Otherwise this material doesn't make me feel much either way. On one hand I can appreciate Wilgy's combined perspectives -- slight town read on Dubz | willing to listen to the Dubz case when it appears from multiple SDN sources | more suspicious of mayo and Pippy --> those are pretty similar to where I was at through the progression of yesterday. Nonetheless there is a case to be made if one wants to, and it'd be basically the same as the case against me (if perhaps not as loud, and I understand the case against me even if the conclusion is incorrect) with the wifom added of the tie-making vote.

Conclusion:

I don't think this interaction clears DrWilgy. I don't really think it makes him look worse either. It's all quite "rand" in my eyes. I will likely continue to assess him at face value instead of with this stuff.

 

[motheatenlysis]

Have you read the rest of the day? What’s your perspective on it? (In your last post you sussed PSV and town read Dubz; I’ll assume that’s changed at least. 😉)

Changed 100%. I haven’t caught up (making coffee now, and also went back to Easter activities). I popped in to see that Dubz was wolf and was like

 

[Zenge142]

Mayo trying to tie Dubz and Jay together looks more interesting now..

In what way?

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Changed 100%. I haven’t caught up (making coffee now, and also went back to Easter activities). I popped in to see that Dubz was wolf and was like

Mafia is a jerk of a game. What other game allows you have to have something good happen for your team, but it makes you feel crappy?

Or maybe ego is the jerk. Or both. Let's go with both.

 

[Boquise]

Yeet Dina

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeet Dina

Good person for me to review next after I teach some classes today. Note to self.

 

[Boquise]

I will be voting for Boq today. Will pull quotes later. Could also go for JJ.

oh boy i have been looking forward to this tbh

 

[motheatenlysis]

Mafia is a jerk of a game. What other game allows you have to have something good happen for your team, but it makes you feel crappy?

Or maybe ego is the jerk. Or both. Let's go with both.

It was for sure a bit ego. I don’t like being wrong. And Dubz was also sticking up for me against PSV a bit at first, “boring”, “mothy things”, and so on. I’m frustrated that it made my brain go to “oh PSV is wolf” and then it just stuck there. I didn’t vote PSV cuz I didn’t want it to be a retaliatory yeet.

But also at the same time I definitely did a heck yea arm pump that the team got a wolf which made my bf just looked at me like I was crazy lol.

 

[Zenge142]

Yeet Dina

This is a choice. Why DinaDinaBoBina?

 

[Boquise]

the knee-jerk reaction to scum read me is expected. I did jump around the wagons.
However, I explicitly laid out my reasoning to my unsureness, went through my thought process in the open, asked for reasons to why we are voting Dubz, and then made it appear that I could be voting Mayo or Dubz without it being weird. And I voted Dubz for a third time, breaking a tie.

Yep, it is in the bussing area, and I really wish I would just have tunnelled the post I found to be wolfy and never look back because then i would look super cool but that is not how I play, unfortunately. However, I still landed on a wolf, broke a tie, did my duty. If I was a wolf I would not be so super fence-sitting about it, voting, unvoting, doing a whole dance number with it because that is something people typically find to be wolfy. If I had bussed, I would have just bussed.

 

[Boquise]

This is a choice. Why DinaDinaBoBina?

I am going to bring up a quote I saw right before going to bed which I thought was super scummy. Being the last one on the wagon is nagl too. She has also, prior, just floated around in the thread with few takes and not really putting herself out there. Thats how I think a wolf would want to play during D1.