LMU Class of 2023 Applicants

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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K9CRZY said:
Some programs are now offering to pay for your tuition if you stay in rural areas to try and solve this problem.

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They give stipends that are pathetic and don't pay the full tuition. That still only touches part of the money issue, ignores the mental health aspect completely.
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K9CRZY said:
Some programs are now offering to pay for your tuition if you stay in rural areas to try and solve this problem.

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And these are so few and far between that it's not making a dent in the need. Again, BFE NE is my dream, but I am physically disqualified from programs like the army, and I'm disqualified from a lot of other programs due to my vet med grades/ranking.
 
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Also on this specific point: "people shouldn't bash a school they haven't been to"

Graduated, in the trenches vets such as DVMD have every right to bring up these points because they have a vested interest in how these students are doing because they're the ones hiring us. Students at other schools have a vested interest because these are the people who we will be working with in literally every aspect. Now these students will have to deal with the stigma that Ross/Western/etc had to deal with 10-15 years ago, including the ones that passed the NAVLE. They will be the students who graduated from the school that couldn't get accredited. That's a huge disservice on the part of the school.
 
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K9CRZY said:
Some programs are now offering to pay for your tuition if you stay in rural areas to try and solve this problem.
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I just wanted to touch on this point, because I don't think it's always fully understood how those programs work. I certainly didn't know some intricacies when I was a pre-vet student who thought those programs would be the answer. The main program that does the rural payback is VMLRP. For that, people nominate areas where there seems to be a need for more food animal veterinarians. There are different classifications based on what percent of your time you are expected to be doing 'food animal practice'. But the kicker for those programs is that you have to already be living in that need area or have a job offer there to apply for the program. And you might not get chosen.

What if you move to the middle of nowhere where you're betting on 'up to' $25,000/yr repayment for three years max as repayment for your service in order to repay your loans? If you are lucky and win the award, that's great! Now you can pay for just barely over one year of your LMU (or insert any other expensive vet school name here) vet school tuition! But if you don't win the award, suddenly you've moved yourself somewhere where it is not super sustainable to stay without assistance. That 282,000 loan you took out for vet school has been accruing interest daily and has now grown to 320,000 by graduation. How can you pay that off? Your ten year payments will be like 3,000/month which is impossible. Sure, the income based repayment plans help, but when 20-25 years comes around, your loan has only continued to grow. On your forgiveness day, you have $500,000-600,000 forgiven. But that counts as taxable income, so I hope you've been saving money all along for the $150,000-$200,000 tax bomb you're going to have to pay! So if you're a rural mixed practitioner making 55-60k per year (my vet school bestie does rural mixed and makes this much and I had a job offer at a rural mixed practice for less than that when I graduated), your take-home pay is about 4k/month...at least 25% of which is going towards your loan. For 20-25 years. It sounds doable, but life is expensive and I hope you have enough left over for rent/mortgage, bills, children, etc. This is why people are shying away from rural mixed...it sometimes just doesn't work despite how much people want to do rural medicine. As someone who always thought she'd go back home and be a rural mixed veterinarian, I strongly urge you to go to the cheapest school you can if that is your interest for these reasons. I ended up on a different path due to an interest in specializing in pathology, but luckily, if I were to decide to go back home, at least I went to a cheaper school and don't have obscene amounts of debt to pay off.
 
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JaynaAli said:
I just wanted to touch on this point, because I don't think it's always fully understood how those programs work. I certainly didn't know some intricacies when I was a pre-vet student who thought those programs would be the answer. The main program that does the rural payback is VMLRP. For that, people nominate areas where there seems to be a need for more food animal veterinarians. There are different classifications based on what percent of your time you are expected to be doing 'food animal practice'. But the kicker for those programs is that you have to already be living in that need area or have a job offer there to apply for the program. And you might not get chosen.

What if you move to the middle of nowhere where you're betting on 'up to' $25,000/yr repayment for three years max as repayment for your service in order to repay your loans? If you are lucky and win the award, that's great! Now you can pay for just barely over one year of your LMU (or insert any other expensive vet school name here) vet school tuition! But if you don't win the award, suddenly you've moved yourself somewhere where it is not super sustainable to stay without assistance. That 282,000 loan you took out for vet school has been accruing interest daily and has now grown to 320,000 by graduation. How can you pay that off? Your ten year payments will be like 3,000/month which is impossible. Sure, the income based repayment plans help, but when 20-25 years comes around, your loan has only continued to grow. On your forgiveness day, you have $500,000-600,000 forgiven. But that counts as taxable income, so I hope you've been saving money all along for the $150,000-$200,000 tax bomb you're going to have to pay! So if you're a rural mixed practitioner making 55-60k per year (my vet school bestie does rural mixed and makes this much and I had a job offer at a rural mixed practice for less than that when I graduated), your take-home pay is about 4k/month...at least 25% of which is going towards your loan. For 20-25 years. It sounds doable, but life is expensive and I hope you have enough left over for rent/mortgage, bills, children, etc. This is why people are shying away from rural mixed...it sometimes just doesn't work despite how much people want to do rural medicine. As someone who always thought she'd go back home and be a rural mixed veterinarian, I strongly urge you to go to the cheapest school you can if that is your interest for these reasons. I ended up on a different path due to an interest in specializing in pathology, but luckily, if I were to decide to go back home, at least I went to a cheaper school and don't have obscene amounts of debt to pay off.
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It's not my interest and I don't intend to use a program like this.

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K9CRZY said:
It's not my interest and I don't intend to use a program like this.

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It was the interest of someone else on the thread, which was who Jayna was more gearing it towards.
 
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Alright everyone. I think this may have gone little too far. everyone seems to have really strong feelings about their opinions or the mistakes they have made but in all honesty I don't think you are changing anyones minds, at least not on this thread. I get it. you've been there done that, but everyone has to make their own mistakes. your insight isn't unwanted. its nice to hear what some people have to say, and like most of you have said you are just trying to look out for future veterinarians. However, I think this discussion on how you feel about LMU or really any other vet school should be on a separate thread. It is not fair to make someone feel inadequate or like they are making the wrong decision, nor is it fair to blame the school for them feeling that way. Most people second guess themselves when someone blatently tells them they think they are making the wrong decision. It is not fair. Its uncalled for. and frankly quite rude. I came to this forum to get a feeling of camaraderie with fellow applicants and all I've seen is judgment on a topic that, In all honesty, no person on this thread knows the real story about, judgement on peoples personal choices, and judgement on other opinions. realize we are all human, we all make mistakes, and we all want to make our own decisions.

Blanket statements rarely fit individual situations.
 
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amwildlife said:
Alright everyone. I think this may have gone little too far. everyone seems to have really strong feelings about their opinions or the mistakes they have made but in all honesty I don't think you are changing anyones minds, at least not on this thread. I get it. you've been there done that, but everyone has to make their own mistakes. your insight isn't unwanted. its nice to hear what some people have to say, and like most of you have said you are just trying to look out for future veterinarians. However, I think this discussion on how you feel about LMU or really any other vet school should be on a separate thread. It is not fair to make someone feel inadequate or like they are making the wrong decision, nor is it fair to blame the school for them feeling that way. Most people second guess themselves when someone blatently tells them they think they are making the wrong decision. It is not fair. Its uncalled for. and frankly quite rude. I came to this forum to get a feeling of camaraderie with fellow applicants and all I've seen is judgment on a topic that, In all honesty, no person on this thread knows the real story about, judgement on peoples personal choices, and judgement on other opinions. realize we are all human, we all make mistakes, and we all want to make our own decisions.

Blanket statements rarely fit individual situations.
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As far as I could tell, we have been having a discussion that is relevant to the applicants to the school, and therefore on topic for this thread.
If anyone was made to feel inadequate, I am sure that was not the intention of the posters here. Nobody is holding a gun to anyone's head and forcing them to make a decision one way or another, we are simply discussing different perspectives. Disagreeing with others, even our colleagues, is a fact of life, and one that I'm sure everyone in this thread can handle.
 
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More to the point, veterinarians are killing themselves over this level of "mistake". I for one will not let "it'll all work out in the end" stand when it simply isn't for many of our colleagues.
 
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JaynaAli said:
your take-home pay is about 4k/month...at least 25% of which is going towards your loan.
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I want to clarify this.... this would be your take home BEFORE taxes. This is my current take home AFTER taxes and I make almost (not quite) double that $55-60k and I still struggle, still can't even pay the interest on my student loans, my student loan balance is still INCREASING despite throwing $544/month onto the loan... basically take $9k every year and set it on fire because that is what you are doing on IBR.

If I want to pay the interest (meaning my loan balance will always remain steady but never decrease) I would have to pay ~1600-1800/month, if I wanted to actually make a dent in the balance... I would have to pay ~$2500/month... a 10 year repayment is >$4000/month....

Hopefully this puts it a bit more into perspective for people, because it is impossible to see what this looks like when you are 20-23 years old and have never had this amount of debt to contend with/pay back. Especially this amount of debt at 6-8% interest.
 
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I have so much to say and it’s not going to be pretty. Sorry fellow classmates...as a current MS student myself I think this has been an excellent discussion. I feel predated upon by LMU already. How many lies were we told to get us in this program?! Did you know we would spend 45k for a MS (60 after living expenses)? Yeah, me neither. I was under the impression is was 20k. Considering 9 of us aren’t walking already and we have another semester to go, how many are going to get through? If you’re better off now than you were before this started, that’s awesome, but HALF OF US AREN’T. That is not remotely the stats we were given. We have to out perform current DVM students for even a shot. You need to get an A in anatomy to get an interview. You know what I didn’t need last year for an interview? An A in anatomy. You know how many hours I spent in research this semester for what was a 3cr hr class? Over 200. That’s not what I signed up for. It was...wait for it...a LIE. Btw, if I’d spent that much time in anatomy lab I’D HAVE AN A!!

Sorry guys, LMU has been keeping this accreditation thing from all of us for over a month. Did they talk to us about it? Nope. You know what would happen if they had? No one would be speculating on this thread.

They still insist on telling you all physiology is what you’ll be taking next semester. Why? Why do they lie about stupid crap? I needed that class!! Why do they say “gossip about the school can get you kicked out”? Silencing my freedom of speech? Or keeping us all from telling the truth in fear we will be “kicked out”?

Ski guessed one of the reasons why the accreditation didn’t go through earlier in the thread. It’s honestly not even that hard to fix. The school is waaayyy too secretive and it’s just sketchy. I mean we couldn’t join any clubs except the BIBLE study club? Please. We paid for anatomy and should be able to be part of clubs on campus. It’s ridiculous. Bible study? Seriously? There’s a church on every corner...the students are covered in that department. You know what we weren’t covered on? Anatomy club.

This was the biggest mistake I’ve made academically...ever. I’ll be glad when it’s over. One thing I’m even more happy about? Not going here for 4 more years. You can have my spot...now quit being so nasty. For anyone wondering, they unknowingly pit us all against each other by making every. Single. Assignment. Something we can’t discuss with each other. Another stupid rule. If we talk about assignments...we are “cheating”. You know what that does? Makes it the least collaborative environment to learn in I’ve ever experienced in my life. The students here are MEAN. I mean AWFUL to each other. The just call it “competitive”. Um, no, half of you are mean girls.

Think hard about your decision to go here. Are you die hard MAGA? Good luck if not. One of the professors called liberals “libtards” in an open setting chatting with his students. LIBTARDS. At a college. He said liberals are some of the dumbest people he’s ever met. To students. In public. Where am I? You know what I wish? Someone else had risked getting kicked out saying all these things so I hadn’t come here. :(

I’m happy for you if it’s a good fit. Some people thrive in this atmosphere. I do not...and I just wish I would’ve known ahead of time.

In any event, you should at least take into account what current vets have to say because they have more experience and knowledge than us. Don’t be too mad at me animallady!:love:
 
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zoogrl29 said:
I have so much to say and it’s not going to be pretty. Sorry fellow classmates...as a current MS student myself I think this has been an excellent discussion. I feel predated upon by LMU already. How many lies were we told to get us in this program?! Did you know we would spend 45k for a MS (60 after living expenses)? Yeah, me neither. I was under the impression is was 20k. Considering 9 of us aren’t walking already and we have another semester to go, how many are going to get through? If you’re better off now than you were before this started, that’s awesome, but HALF OF US ARE’NT. That is not remotely the stats we were given. We have to out perform current DVM students for even a shot. You need to get an A in anatomy to get an interview. You know what I didn’t need last year for an interview? An A in anatomy. You know how many hours I spent in research this semester for what was a 3cr hr class? Over 200. That’s not what I signed up for. It was...wait for it...a LIE. Btw, if I’d spent that much time in anatomy lab I’D HAVE AN A!!

Sorry guys, LMU has been keeping this accreditation thing from all of us for over a month. Did they talk to us about it? Nope. You know what would happen if they had? No one would be speculating on this thread.

They still insist on telling you all physiology is what you’ll be taking next semester. Why? Why do they lie about stupid crap? I needed that class!! Why do they say “gossip about the school can get you kicked out”? Silencing my freedom of speech? Or keeping us all from telling the truth in fear we will be “kicked out”?

Ski guessed one of the reasons why the accreditation didn’t go through earlier in the thread. It’s honestly not even that hard to fix. The school is waaayyy too secretive and it’s just sketchy. I mean we couldn’t join any clubs except the BIBLE study club? Please. We paid for anatomy and should be able to be part of clubs on campus. It’s ridiculous. Bible study? Seriously? There’s a church on every corner...the students are covered in that department. You know what we weren’t covered on? Anatomy club.

This was the biggest mistake I’ve made academically...ever. I’ll be glad when it’s over. One thing I’m even more happy about? Not going here for 4 more years. You can have my spot...now quit being so nasty. For anyone wondering, they unknowingly pit us all against each other by making every. Single. Assignment. Something we can’t discuss with each other. Another stupid rule. If we talk about assignments...we are “cheating”. You know what that does? Makes it the least collaborative environment to learn in I’ve ever experienced in my life. The students here are MEAN. I mean AWFUL to each other. The just call it “competitive”. Um, no, half of you are mean girls.

Think hard about your decision to go here. Are you die hard MAGA? Good luck if not. One of the professors called liberals “libtards” in an open setting chatting with his students. LIBTARDS. At a college. He said liberals are some of the dumbest people he’s ever met. To students. In public. Where am I? You know what I wish? Someone else had risked getting kicked out saying all these things so I had’nt come here. :(

I’m happy for you if it’s a good fit. Some people thrive in this atmosphere. I do not...and I just wish I would’ve known ahead of time.

In any event, you should at least take into account what current vets have to say because they have more experience and knowledge than us. Don’t be too mad at me animallady!:love:
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There is...so much to unpack here.
I must admit I know nothing about the MS program or any of that. Where did you hear about the reasons for the accreditation issues, was it from the school administration? Because it seems like what you were told and what applicants are being told at interview days is different.
 
WildZoo said:
There is...so much to unpack here.
I must admit I know nothing about the MS program or any of that. Where did you hear about the reasons for the accreditation issues, was it from the school administration? Because it seems like what you were told and what applicants are being told at interview days is different.
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It was a reliable source. That is all I can say. There were issues with some of the affiliates and from what I understand, it has already been corrected. I honestly believe the accreditation will go through.
 
@zoogrl29 thank you for your honesty. I appreciate you putting yourself out there to shed some light on what’s actually going on


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Elkhart said:
Truthfully, this still isn't going to solve the issue because the stipends tend to be very small and don't provide enough incentive for veterinarians to stay in these areas. Yes, I'm sure that Appalachia needs more veterinarians, as do a lot of other more rural parts of the US, but there's several reasons that these places remain underserved, and I hate that almost every new school that has popped up or is planning to pop up within the next few years is exploiting this issue as an excuse to exist. It's not going to help the fundamental core issue at all, and in fact may exacerbate it.

One is simply that there often isn't enough money generated within the local economies to support a veterinarian, especially a recent-ish graduate, who most likely has $150,000+ worth of student loan debt. The stipend programs only touch the surface and barely make a dent in that kind of debt. The army programs are more helpful financially, but as @batsenecal mentioned above, there are only a handful of spots open for that every year and it's extremely difficult to qualify, especially if you suffer from physical or mental health issues, which a good chunk of the veterinary population does.

Another is the lifestyle. When I was in veterinary school, a pretty substantial number of the large animal and mixed animal students that I knew in my class ended up switching to small animal, and for several of them, it was because they didn't want the rural lifestyle and/or they knew the money wasn't there. People are all gung-ho about being the next James Herriot and being on-call essentially 24/7 for mixed animal practice until they realize what that actually entails and, understandably I feel, they change their minds. And again, the fact that there's little financial incentive to stay only makes the problem worse.

It's going to take a lot more than what is currently being done to address this issue--and I'm talking huge changes to the entire veterinary school process--in order to even begin working on a real solution. Things like halting all development of future schools, freezing or (preferably) finding some way to slash tuition, offering much larger stipends so that these veterinarians can actually afford to service their debt and live halfway comfortably, or maybe even ceasing or decreasing enrollment at some schools until things are more under control. The fact is that this profession has so much going against it right now that I think it's in serious trouble unless something happens. Extreme student loan debts for pitiful salaries, especially in the areas with the greatest need for veterinary care, mental health issues abound, clients, the absolutely grueling nature of veterinary school, oversaturation...

Which gets to why I take issue with so many of these new schools opening without at least a plan to build a full (or at least pretty close to it) service teaching hospital. Almost everyone I have talked to who has attended a school using a distributive model for clinics did not particularly enjoy it and wishes that they had the support and experience of a teaching hospital. What's sadder is that these schools tend to be among the most expensive ones to attend, which feels almost predatory to me. Why pay more for a school lacking a teaching hospital when you can attend a school with one for the same price or even lower?

Especially so with LMU because while, yes, they had a high enough NAVLE pass rate to meet accreditation standards, the rate is still poor compared to the 97%-99% of most schools. That 87.4% means that there were 11 students in their principal class that didn't pass either NAVLE during their final year. That's really not good. That's 11 students who will probably have to scrounge to find some way to start paying back their massive debts before even being able to work as a veterinarian, which as someone who was dismissed from veterinary school and thus had to face something similar, is soul crushing. I can't even put into words how painful and humiliating an experience that is; it's awful. Most schools have maybe 1-3 people fail the NAVLE per year, so 11 is an astoundingly high number. This is a test that almost everyone passes.

The fact that LMU is among the most expensive veterinary schools in the country, is having accreditation issues which they apparently do not feel the need to be transparent about nor disclose their deficiencies publically so that applicants can make a judgement call, has an unpopular distributive clinical year model and has zero plans to build an actual teaching hospital, and also is providing an education that has proved to only be able to guarantee that 87% of students will pass the exam that they NEED to pass in order to receive their veterinary license and do the work that they poured so much money, time, and effort and tears into... I would personally be very skeptical when considering this school, to be completely honest. I would hope that potential future students (as well as current ones) would be asking about these issues and what is being done to address them.
Click to expand...

I definitely think you make some valid points here but LMU is really in the lower/middle part of the pack for tuition if you have no IS option.

I used the aavmc website as a source but can't link to it because I haven't posted enough yet to be able to post links I guess.
 
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labradork said:
I definitely think you make some valid points here but LMU is really in the lower/middle part of the pack for tuition if you have no IS option.
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Part of the problem is that schools within a similar price range have a teaching hospital included in that figure. I pay an extra 4k per year, but I have a teaching hospital 20 yards from my classroom building. I don't actually have to do anything special or extra my fourth year if I don't need to.
 
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Wow am I glad I read through this thread...as soon as I left my interview me and my dad were talking about how we got kinda bad vibes. I thought I was just being a little judgmental but looks like we weren’t wrong
 
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A couple different tools, so yes, LMU is about in the middle for OOS tuition. Keep in mind that everyone pays that tuition anyway since it is a private school.
Exploring the Cost of a Veterinary Medical Education

VIN Foundation Cost of Education Map

Basically what bats said though. And, it is not like we are encouraging people to go to other schools with tuition that high either. I am hard pressed to recommend people come to my school OOS if they have other options, unless they know they'll be able to change residency status. Even if you don't have a school in your state you have the option to apply to schools that let you change residency status, most states have contract seats at one or multiple schools, or if you can swing it you can move to a state that does have a vet school and establish residency.
 
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I love my school. I love my friends here. I really love my class. All three of those facts are especially true after the semester I've had.

I would've taken CSU in a heartbeat as it was my IS.
 
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zoogrl29 said:
I have so much to say and it’s not going to be pretty. Sorry fellow classmates...as a current MS student myself I think this has been an excellent discussion. I feel predated upon by LMU already. How many lies were we told to get us in this program?! Did you know we would spend 45k for a MS (60 after living expenses)? Yeah, me neither. I was under the impression is was 20k. Considering 9 of us aren’t walking already and we have another semester to go, how many are going to get through? If you’re better off now than you were before this started, that’s awesome, but HALF OF US AREN’T. That is not remotely the stats we were given. We have to out perform current DVM students for even a shot. You need to get an A in anatomy to get an interview. You know what I didn’t need last year for an interview? An A in anatomy. You know how many hours I spent in research this semester for what was a 3cr hr class? Over 200. That’s not what I signed up for. It was...wait for it...a LIE. Btw, if I’d spent that much time in anatomy lab I’D HAVE AN A!!

Sorry guys, LMU has been keeping this accreditation thing from all of us for over a month. Did they talk to us about it? Nope. You know what would happen if they had? No one would be speculating on this thread.

They still insist on telling you all physiology is what you’ll be taking next semester. Why? Why do they lie about stupid crap? I needed that class!! Why do they say “gossip about the school can get you kicked out”? Silencing my freedom of speech? Or keeping us all from telling the truth in fear we will be “kicked out”?

Ski guessed one of the reasons why the accreditation didn’t go through earlier in the thread. It’s honestly not even that hard to fix. The school is waaayyy too secretive and it’s just sketchy. I mean we couldn’t join any clubs except the BIBLE study club? Please. We paid for anatomy and should be able to be part of clubs on campus. It’s ridiculous. Bible study? Seriously? There’s a church on every corner...the students are covered in that department. You know what we weren’t covered on? Anatomy club.

This was the biggest mistake I’ve made academically...ever. I’ll be glad when it’s over. One thing I’m even more happy about? Not going here for 4 more years. You can have my spot...now quit being so nasty. For anyone wondering, they unknowingly pit us all against each other by making every. Single. Assignment. Something we can’t discuss with each other. Another stupid rule. If we talk about assignments...we are “cheating”. You know what that does? Makes it the least collaborative environment to learn in I’ve ever experienced in my life. The students here are MEAN. I mean AWFUL to each other. The just call it “competitive”. Um, no, half of you are mean girls.

Think hard about your decision to go here. Are you die hard MAGA? Good luck if not. One of the professors called liberals “libtards” in an open setting chatting with his students. LIBTARDS. At a college. He said liberals are some of the dumbest people he’s ever met. To students. In public. Where am I? You know what I wish? Someone else had risked getting kicked out saying all these things so I hadn’t come here. :(

I’m happy for you if it’s a good fit. Some people thrive in this atmosphere. I do not...and I just wish I would’ve known ahead of time.

In any event, you should at least take into account what current vets have to say because they have more experience and knowledge than us. Don’t be too mad at me animallady!:love:
Click to expand...

I really appreciate your honesty.

For those of us who are reading and may be considering the masters program, would you care to elaborate more on what the program actually entails? I'm torn because I'm not the kind of person who likes to talk about institutions (especially ones I'm interested in) on public forums if it could be viewed in a negative light, but I feel like it's imperative for potential future students to know what they may be getting themselves into, good or bad. I really only put stock behind the opinions of actual current students, such as yourself!


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zoogrl29 said:
Did you do your undergrad there or UC?
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I was accepted to CSU for undergrad, but went to a small out of state college because it was significantly cheaper (aka debt free) than CSU due to the difference in scholarships offered.
 
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vethopeful_2 said:
I really appreciate your honesty.

For those of us who are reading and may be considering the masters program, would you care to elaborate more on what the program actually entails? I'm torn because I'm not the kind of person who likes to talk about institutions (especially ones I'm interested in) on public forums if it could be viewed in a negative light, but I feel like it's imperative for potential future students to know what they may be getting themselves into, good or bad. I really only put stock behind the opinions of actual current students, such as yourself!


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Click to expand...

It’s not an easy program. If you decide to come here live close. I mean... 10 min away tops! I made a really bad decision living 25 min from either campus and spent A LOT of money in gas and have had some trouble with time management.

It’s expensive. You will take out over 62k in loans. UF has online MS programs that are 10k and may be a better option.

Colloquial Principles of Life Science x2 (1)
Grad. Life Sci. Research Design & Analysis (3)
Microbiology/parasitology (3)
Research project OR Biochem (3)

I quoted this from a DO thread because it’s accurate. You will be taking RDA and Micro with DO MS students.

“These classes, while not hard sciences, they are not just given to you as A's either, you will have to put in the time and work. Although there is not really significant studying you will be doing for these 3 classes, they do take up your time in the form of papers and assignments. You have to know how to manage your time to plan ahead for these or you WILL struggle. In a nutshell, colloquial is small group classes (7-10 people) analyzing and critiquing scientific literature. It helps you really improve in reading scientific papers. Research design and analysis (RDA) is a standard class that is what the name tells you, learning how to design studies and use statistics for research.” Micro is difficult and will require some serious studying, buts it’s do-able. “You can get an A in all of these if you are professional, know how to manage your time, and put in the work, it's as simple as that.”

To elaborate a bit, RDA assignments will take you hours to complete, and if you haven’t taken excellent notes you will be driven insane (this was actually my favorite class and Dr. Nahar is amazing). It’s a stats class with an emphasis on learning how to use SPSS software.

Micro/parasit is actually a fun class, but your exams in micro are incredibly tedious. Dr.Hamilton is no joke and you need to be prepared for a 4+ hr exam and take it in 2hrs. These are “open book/notes”, but they are scenario based questions and 50 questions+, in that format, are daunting if you aren’t prepared. Dr. Faulkner is more straight forward and parasit isn’t “easier” it’s just presented in a way where you can get through the tests without freaking out.

So for research...you could get a simple project. Seriously, you could end up devoting the 35-50 hrs that is expected and have an decent semester. Or, you can get a serious researcher and get stuck with hundreds of hours and feeding animals at 7am everyday at the vet school. It’s a crap shoot. Which leads to...

Animal anatomy (5)
This course is taken with the DVM 1st years and it is the hardest class you will ever take. Seriously, it’s soooo hard. You will have to devote 50+hours a week in studying (unless you’re a memorization genius and there are definitely some of those here). You will need to maintain a 3.0 to get a chance at an interview. You need an A in anatomy to get in without worry (You also need to “play the part” and never. Ever. Complain). This leads back to research and time. Will you have the time to study? It’s a crap shoot. Will you be asked to skip lectures and labs for your project? Maybe.

One thing to note if you decide to come is that students who took the boot camp had a clear advantage over those of us who didn’t. They generally led the labs with more confidence and general knowledge. I would highly recommend going.

Your grades will be different. A vet student needs a 3.95 for an A. You will need a 90.5 for A’s in all of your courses.

Biochem
The students in this really struggled. I’m not positive, but I believe this is the reason for many students not walking for graduation. I know of 3 that W from it. I can edit this portion next semester.

Edit: I had Dr. Fowler and although this class was difficult he gives a lot of extra credit and his tests are straight forward. No trickery. If you had Dr. Gromley she was “practically impossible” in comparison from what I’ve been told by students who took this twice.

Molgen
Is ridiculous. The professors enjoy failing you. I’m not joking. One of the professors was bad at presenting the material because she was new and 1/2 the class failed her exam. Only a handful got an A on it. Many will have to come back next year to re take this. Think about that...you’ve come here for vet school and you’ve failed at it and now you can’t even get a MS (and you’ll never get into another school) unless you come back here for 16 wks for one class.

This program COULD RUIN YOUR LIFE (it did mine and so many other) so don’t take the move here lightly.

There ARE great people here and some pretty amazing professors (few). It’s not all bad, it just wasn’t presented honestly.
 
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Thank you for taking the time to post this. I think it will really help potential students get a better idea of how things work in the MS program. I'm definitely going to have to do a little self-reflection.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile[/QUOTE]
 
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Fixed my previous error :)


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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vethopeful_2 said:
I don't know why my last post was formatted weird. I tried to delete some of the original text to make my response a shorter post, but I screwed something up. So just for the record, I was the one who said what my post is showing that Zoo said. Not trying to misquote!!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...
You have to edit and remove the []’s
 
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I do know people make good money in LA but working for industry and govt vs your home town person.
 
I just wanted to say that I appreciate all the information that was shared in this thread, because there are people out there who may have had no idea that some of these issues were present. It's an eye-opener. Especially because no school would openly advertise their flaws. This just helps people make more informed decisions, because let's face it, this really is a HUGE investment decision that will forever impact your life. I know we are all eager to become vets and have that "whatever it takes" attitude, but just be aware of all the issues and know how your money will be invested, because there will be no refunds!
 
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It seems to me that most every current LMU student has some sort of cognitive dissonance about the program and defends it rigidly when something negative is brought to light (frequently). Does that mean a program is bad because of the opinion's of people who don't go there? No.

However at my interview, not a single student was excited about the school. Most everyone had a "it's ok" attitude or a "it wasn't my first choice" kind of answer during the question and answer. No one seemed excited or passionate at all, really. And these were the students CHOSEN to represent the school.

It just feels like there are too many red flags at this point. I think that LMU can produce vets of high caliber, but it certainly seems like a tedious, arduous, dubious process. Contrary to the other schools I have toured where you know the students are die-hard fans.
 
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zoogrl29 said:
Did you know we would spend 45k for a MS (60 after living expenses)?
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A little OT, but is your MS thesis-based? If it is, you'd think that they'd be paying you--at least, that's how it works at the schools with which I am familiar. If it isn't thesis-based, never mind and carry on!
 
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For the record, the beginning MS students were all accepted to the program with C’s and F’s (there are no D’s). You’re told you don’t have to repeat anatomy if you get an A or B, what’s the point now? You need it to get in because, I’m sure, they thought the accreditadation would go through.

Also, now we can’t mix in the lab because last semester vet students hated MS students so much they refused to let them touch the cadavers. This student is obviously from one of the first groups. I comend her for her hard work and dedication, but she’s not the least bit worried her degree may end up from an unaccredited school? That’s some serious cognitive dissonance.

They will not do anything about the professor. People have complained about him already.

I’m not talking about exams. Again, this person must’ve went through the program in the beginning. There are plenty of given assignments. Exams, of course, should be taken alone. If you’re one of the “in crowd” this is another advantage for them. They take them together. If you’re a non-traditional student, or don’t fit in as well, or maybe never break the rules, you may not be so lucky making straight A’s.
 
pawsitivilylivinglife said:
There is no reason to post more or come back at me for anything I said. I simply gave my opinion and stated my experiences as you had done in your post. I wanted to give prospective students an opinion on LMU coming from someone who completed their MS at LMU and is currently in the vet program. This shouldn’t be an argument at all. No matter what school we decide to attend or get lucky enough to attend and receive our DVM. At the end of the day we will all have our DVM. And we will all make our own experiences and memories. But this certainly should not turn into an argument as we are all going to be working together one day in the field. We are all going to have to rely on each other for something at some point later in life. Why not start now? I posted to help other students come to a better decision.
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You need to unquote that post so the address can be removed. Come on people, think. How anyone can gloss over that is incredible
 
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zoogrl29 said:
They will not do anything about the professor.
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I feel bad saying this and I don't think it should be the case, but I feel as though that occurrence and nothing being done about it is to be expected in a place like TN (perhaps it's just my bias, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Similar to the bible study club situation. Neither of those things would ever fly where I'm from.
 
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pawsitivilylivinglife said:
There is no reason to post more or come back at me for anything I said. I simply gave my opinion and stated my experiences as you had done in your post. I wanted to give prospective students an opinion on LMU coming from someone who completed their MS at LMU and is currently in the vet program. This shouldn’t be an argument at all. No matter what school we decide to attend or get lucky enough to attend and receive our DVM. At the end of the day we will all have our DVM. And we will all make our own experiences and memories. But this certainly should not turn into an argument as we are all going to be working together one day in the field. We are all going to have to rely on each other for something at some point later in life. Why not start now? I posted to help other students come to a better decision.
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You challenged much of my post with more than “your opinion”. Like saying we could join clubs. We can’t. I want others to know what they’re getting into so I will go over what you had to say that wasn’t opinion based. You may want to look at my post about the program as it stands now. Much of it came from the DO thread and is accurate about grades, classes, etc.
My dreams haven’t been crushed. I did not let that happen, but 9 peoples dreams were. They will have a gpa reflecting an F in the program for anatomy or biochem and they will have to spend another 30k for another semester or 60 for the 2 semesters of anatomy (bringing this to 90k or 120k for an MS). This decision could ruin their lives? No sympathy? Just “I made it without studying much”. Do you think that sounds better? Makes the school look better? It worries me that your class didn’t struggle like the current one. Dr. Rowe is incredibly difficult (also amazing) and this “you can do it and still have a life” is not realistic.
 
zoogrl29 said:
You challenged much of my post with more than “your opinion”. Like saying we could join clubs. We can’t. I want others to know what they’re getting into so I will go over what you had to say that wasn’t opinion based. You may want to look at my post about the program as it stands now. Much of it came from the DO thread and is accurate about grades, classes, etc.
My dreams haven’t been crushed. I did not let that happen, but 9 peoples dreams were. They will have a gpa reflecting an F in the program for anatomy or biochem and they will have to spend another 30k for another semester or 60 for the 2 semesters of anatomy (bringing this to 90k or 120k for an MS). This decision could ruin their lives? No sympathy? Just “I made it without studying much”. Do you think that sounds better? Makes the school look better? It worries me that your class didn’t struggle like the current one. Dr. Rowe is incredibly difficult (also amazing) and his zealot stuff about “you can do it and still have a life” is not realistic.
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Any concern shown about posting someone else's home address in a public forum? Hello????

Maybe a little less concern about posting your experience until AFTER you remove that address.
 
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DVMDream said:
Nevermind, both posts have been reported instead.
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Why? I think having the two opposite opinions reflects well on the current state of how LMU works. You either love it or hate it.
 
zoogrl29 said:
Why? I think having the two opposite opinions reflects well on the current state of how LMU works. You either love it or hate it.
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I've posted why like 5 times..... the ****ing address, you can't publicly post someone else's address. Holy crap I've only told you three times to remove it. It shouldn't have ever been posted.
 
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DVMDream said:
Any concern shown about posting someone else's home address in a public forum? Hello????

Maybe a little less concern about posting your experience until AFTER you remove that address.
Click to expand...
I didn’t realize I had done that. Thank you, it’s removed.
 
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pawsitivilylivinglife said:
There is no reason to post more or come back at me for anything I said. I simply gave my opinion and stated my experiences as you had done in your post. I wanted to give prospective students an opinion on LMU coming from someone who completed their MS at LMU and is currently in the vet program. This shouldn’t be an argument at all. No matter what school we decide to attend or get lucky enough to attend and receive our DVM. At the end of the day we will all have our DVM. And we will all make our own experiences and memories. But this certainly should not turn into an argument as we are all going to be working together one day in the field. We are all going to have to rely on each other for something at some point later in life. Why not start now? I posted to help other students come to a better decision.
Click to expand...

You also need to remove that address in the quoted post, I've already reported it. If you're so concerned about professionalism you should've known to remove that before you quoted it. If you didn't notice it, that means you aren't fully reading what someone is saying and taking their opinion and new information into consideration.
 
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