MSU-COM Discussion Thread 2011-2012

[MTUAST3307]

---

Members do not see this ad.

Just to make sure I am doing things correctly.....

Is the secondary really something you print out, complete, and mail in via snail-mail?????
So unheard of! Driving me crazy just downloading all the documents.

Thank you!

Yep that's how it was last year too. It's sure nerve racking to wonder if it gets there on time and all that, but it's also very satisfying having your completed secondary in your hands. 🙂

 

[MTUAST3307]

Does anyone know if the LOR evaluations are the same questions as last year. I am meeting with my people this week and they were wondering if they could use the same template. Also, if I submitted to ACCOMAS July 19th, when should I expect the secondary? Last year I was really late in the cycle (November) and things moved really quickly, so just checking to see what the speed is when I'm early in the cycle.

Here's my stats:
26M
3.89overall
3.82science
1600EC/Volunteer
Proud Michigander!

 

[drgioiadds]

Very happy to get the completed email today! 🙂

 

[DrMeowMeow]

Wait, is the personal essay on the secondary considered your personal statement? Does that mean they don't read the one you put on the AACOMAS?

 

[Everglide]

Does anyone know if the LOR evaluations are the same questions as last year. I am meeting with my people this week and they were wondering if they could use the same template. Also, if I submitted to ACCOMAS July 19th, when should I expect the secondary? Last year I was really late in the cycle (November) and things moved really quickly, so just checking to see what the speed is when I'm early in the cycle.

Here's my stats:
26M
3.89overall
3.82science
1600EC/Volunteer
Proud Michigander!

.

I would think you should be a very fast accept assuming your LORs are good. Though considering you weren't accepted last cycle despite being late, I would think there is some sort of red flag on your app. Hopefully you called/met with an adviser to figure out what went wrong.

Also, to the rest of the everyone's questions: they're all answered in the 3 pages of this thread.

 

[DrMeowMeow]

Wait, is the personal essay on the secondary considered your personal statement? Does that mean they don't read the one you put on the AACOMAS?

I read the first 3 pages of this thread as well as all of last year's thread. None of them state specifically whether or not they read the personal statement from your AACOMAS

 

[meder]

Wait, is the personal essay on the secondary considered your personal statement? Does that mean they don't read the one you put on the AACOMAS?

For MSU DO: Personal Statement (AACOMAS) and Personal Essay (MSU secondary application) do not mean the same thing. Personal essay will be a response to the question/task being asked. There is no association that should make you think that they do not read the personal statement on AACOMAS.

 

[MTUAST3307]

.

I would think you should be a very fast accept assuming your LORs are good. Though considering you weren't accepted last cycle despite being late, I would think there is some sort of red flag on your app. Hopefully you called/met with an adviser to figure out what went wrong.

Also, to the rest of the everyone's questions: they're all answered in the 3 pages of this thread.

I did have a phone interview with Katie Molina about a month ago, she said my application was strong and that the main thing that hurt me was the timing. Also most of my volunteer hours are caring for an ill relative and she said I should be sure to include these hours in my sheet and even write an extra thing about it's impact on me...I did not do this last year so it looked as though I had very few volunteer hours. Thanks for the input.

 

[SisterDisco08]

My application was released to MSUCOM on 7/28...anyone have an idea on how long it takes to get a secondary?

 

[jphwki82]

I read the first 3 pages of this thread as well as all of last year's thread. None of them state specifically whether or not they read the personal statement from your AACOMAS

Every medical school is different in terms of their secondary. Some will have you write an additional personal statement. If it is in your application, primary or secondary, they are going to read it. They don't have you write something just for the fun of it. So in this case, you have 2 personal statements that you will write. Some schools will have you write several mini statements, which are responses to several questions. I know several of the medical schools in Chicago do this. To answer your question, they are going to look at your whole application. Don't forget this MSU grants acceptance without the need for an interview, and is why they have such an elaborate secondary.

 

[SisterDisco08]

Just got the secondary, so they have a really quick turn-around 🙂

 

[AP gooner]

Hey all,

Have a few Qs for all you experienced "secondary" submitted folk!

Do you HAVE to waive your right to the evaluation forms? What if you don't, any consequences?

Also, for the PS, I don't have an outright "ethical dilemma" that I dealt with.... but one of my friends developed a psychological problem and I was one of the only people who knew about it. I had to take steps to help her- would that be fitting in with "ethical" or "personal experience" for the PS? Just a tad bit lost here is all.

Thanks and good luck to everyone with their secondaries : )

 

[SisterDisco08]

I would say that the confidentiality elements inherent in that would lead to some ethical issues, so I'd say it's appropriate to talk about 🙂

 

[MTUAST3307]

Does anyone know if they compare your secondary for this year to last year? Obviously a lot of my things are going to be the same, but after my phone interview with Katie Molina I am going back and really thinking about my past volunteer hours and changing them slightly. It's not like I'm lying about the hours, just Katie brought to my attention that a lot more counts for volunteer hours then just physically being at an event (planning, organization, etc). So in short does anyone know if they compare the two?

Also, is there anything different on the secondary from last year? I'm trying to have it complete before I even get it so I can get submitted faster with the hopes of being in by the first week of acceptances.

Any insight?

 

[Wolverine2007]

Good luck with your primary and secondary apps everyone! Can't wait for everything to be all said and done so we can start a MSUCOM class of 2016 thread! So ready for medical school 😀

 

[Wolverine2007]

Does anyone know if they compare your secondary for this year to last year? Obviously a lot of my things are going to be the same, but after my phone interview with Katie Molina I am going back and really thinking about my past volunteer hours and changing them slightly. It's not like I'm lying about the hours, just Katie brought to my attention that a lot more counts for volunteer hours then just physically being at an event (planning, organization, etc). So in short does anyone know if they compare the two?

Also, is there anything different on the secondary from last year? I'm trying to have it complete before I even get it so I can get submitted faster with the hopes of being in by the first week of acceptances.

Any insight?

I'm not sure if they compare the two but if you left out some of your responsibilities and other information then I'm sure you will add that, in addition to, the adjustment in hours. So if shouldn't look like you are just boosting hours because you are changing other portions as well.

 

[camierz]

I just got complete yesterday! I like the username, Wolverine2007!

 

[shinny437]

I've been reading SDN for months now. Thought I would finally sign-up! 😛

According to my delivery confirmation, my secondary arrived this morning at 7:30. I was complete at 2:45!! Nice that they are moving quickly!!

Let the wait begin...

 

[M91Legacy]

Hey all,

Have a few Qs for all you experienced "secondary" submitted folk!

Do you HAVE to waive your right to the evaluation forms? What if you don't, any consequences?

Also, for the PS, I don't have an outright "ethical dilemma" that I dealt with.... but one of my friends developed a psychological problem and I was one of the only people who knew about it. I had to take steps to help her- would that be fitting in with "ethical" or "personal experience" for the PS? Just a tad bit lost here is all.

Thanks and good luck to everyone with their secondaries : )

I believe by not waiving your right... you look like you don't trust what those people will write..? People that waive their rights give the impression that they trust those people and know them well... my 2 cents. ( I was told by several people it looks bad)

 

[Everglide]

Does anyone know if they compare your secondary for this year to last year?

They definitely compare re-applicants' applications. This may go without saying but I hope you're using a different PS and essay prompts.

Do you HAVE to waive your right to the evaluation forms? What if you don't, any consequences?

Sure you have the right, it just shows you don't trust your letter writers and you could filter a bad evaluation out.... I can't see any reason to waive unless you're worried about a bad eval.

I doubt it's an auto rejection if you waive but if you can't tell from the secondary, the evaluations are extremely important.

 

[MTUAST3307]

They definitely compare re-applicants' applications. This may go without saying but I hope you're using a different PS and essay prompts.


Yes I am re-writing my personal statement and essays, it will be a lot of the same information but Katie Molina just said to "freshen them up."

Could someone tell me if the "additional information" form on the secondary says anything, or if it is basically just a blank page for you to write on. I'm trying to get as much done as possible before I get my secondary, I just couldn't remember the format of that last (optional) page.

Also, this one is gonna sound strange to some of you so I'll explain: I graduated from Michigan Tech which has an annual winter carnival statue competition. I was the chairperson of the statue committee for 2 years, and for the three years I worked on statues I put in about 200 hours total. Should I list this on my non-academic worksheet as extra curricular or as an additional information thing? Right now I have it on the non-academic, but I needed a paragraph to explain all of my duties and basically explain the whole thing since it's pretty unique. Any opinions as to where would be the best place to list it?

Here is our statue from this year...first place!!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5253/5433928950_efed7f8c12_b.jpg

 

[EgyptianDoc]

They definitely compare re-applicants' applications. This may go without saying but I hope you're using a different PS and essay prompts.


Yes I am re-writing my personal statement and essays, it will be a lot of the same information but Katie Molina just said to "freshen them up."

Could someone tell me if the "additional information" form on the secondary says anything, or if it is basically just a blank page for you to write on. I'm trying to get as much done as possible before I get my secondary, I just couldn't remember the format of that last (optional) page.

Also, this one is gonna sound strange to some of you so I'll explain: I graduated from Michigan Tech which has an annual winter carnival statue competition. I was the chairperson of the statue committee for 2 years, and for the three years I worked on statues I put in about 200 hours total. Should I list this on my non-academic worksheet as extra curricular or as an additional information thing? Right now I have it on the non-academic, but I needed a paragraph to explain all of my duties and basically explain the whole thing since it's pretty unique. Any opinions as to where would be the best place to list it?

Here is our statue from this year...first place!!

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5253/5433928950_efed7f8c12_b.jpg

The additional information sheet is just a blank page. They call it a "this doesn't fit anywhere else" page. Anything you put on the page must be in bullet point form. Definitely take advantage of it!

I would talk about the statue competition on both pages. Include it on the ECs then elaborate on it a bit on the extra page they give you if you feel like it's important. Very impressive by the way! Good luck 🙂

 

[medicaldreams13]

Just got the secondary, so they have a really quick turn-around 🙂

so did you get your secondary 5 days after submitting your AACOMAS? sorry if that sounds stupid. I'm not sure if I completely understand what the term "released" means, I'm new to SDN.

I submitted my primary 2 days ago and already had my transcripts/scores uploaded, so I'm curious as to how long it will take to be verified.

My stats are on the lower side, with cGPA 3.3, sGPA 3.14, and 26N MCAT. However, I'm a Michigan resident and MSU student. idk how much that will play a role in the process.

 

[ziprasidone1]

My AACOMAS primary application was released to MSU 7 days ago and I still have not received a secondary. I'm not sure if I should call them and inquire about my status?

 

[drgioiadds]

I wouldn't worry about it. I submitted June 1 and didn't get my secondary until mid July. They are probably getting a lot of primary applications at this time. Once you get the secondary, there is more than enough time to get it completed.

 

[taylorl]

Hey everyone, is this the evaluation form from MSU? I found it on a previous years blog and wanted to give it to my evaluator.

Thanks for your help!

 

[GlimmerGlass]

My primary was released to MSU from AACOMAS about 7 days ago too. I received a secondary this morning so it looks like there is maybe a 1 week turn-around time.

 

[M91Legacy]

so did you get your secondary 5 days after submitting your AACOMAS? sorry if that sounds stupid. I'm not sure if I completely understand what the term "released" means, I'm new to SDN.

I submitted my primary 2 days ago and already had my transcripts/scores uploaded, so I'm curious as to how long it will take to be verified.

My stats are on the lower side, with cGPA 3.3, sGPA 3.14, and 26N MCAT. However, I'm a Michigan resident and MSU student. idk how much that will play a role in the process.

released means AACOMAS sent it to the schools.

 

[spiffybob57]

So what does everyone think about this algorithm that MSUCOM uses to decide the order in which apps are reviewed?

 

[Everglide]

So what does everyone think about this algorithm that MSUCOM uses to decide the order in which apps are reviewed?

It's pretty reasonable considering there's no way they could review 5000 applications... Boiled down it's basically: decent grades&MCAT + (Volunteerhours>800ish)=Sent for review/acceptance. I assume all other schools use something similar without the large number of volunteer hours.

It certainly excludes some applicants who could be successful students but that's how the process goes. On the other hand it allows for lower scores to be made up for partially by experiences/volunteering and "quantifies" well-rounded students if you will.

 

[spiffybob57]

It's pretty reasonable considering there's no way they could review 5000 applications... Boiled down it's basically: decent grades&MCAT + (Volunteerhours>800ish)=Sent for review/acceptance. I assume all other schools use something similar without the large number of volunteer hours.

It certainly excludes some applicants who could be successful students but that's how the process goes. On the other hand it allows for lower scores to be made up for partially by experiences/volunteering and "quantifies" well-rounded students if you will.

Makes sense!
Do you know if they include ECs/EC hours in the "volunteer hour>800" part of the equation, or is that explicitly the stuff you put in the volunteer experience section?

 

[DrMeowMeow]

I would hope so!! i have about 600 volunteer hours including college and i thought that was a lot. With other ECs I would have 2500

 

[Everglide]

Makes sense!
Do you know if they include ECs/EC hours in the "volunteer hour>800" part of the equation, or is that explicitly the stuff you put in the volunteer experience section?

I'm not sure, of course the non-volunteer hours come into play but I'm not sure how. Before I was applying, I was told an anecdote from a non-adcom member (so not verified), they specifically look for 800 volunteer hours as "the magic number" for committee review.

So... basically do not under-estimate your hours, that seems to be a reoccurring problem for some who are rejected and subsequently accepted as re-applicants the next cycle (but obviously don't lie and overestimate either).

 

[Lijia4]

I'm not sure, of course the non-volunteer hours come into play but I'm not sure how. Before I was applying, I was told an anecdote from a non-adcom member (so not verified), they specifically look for 800 volunteer hours as "the magic number" for committee review.

So... basically do not under-estimate your hours, that seems to be a reoccurring problem for some who are rejected and subsequently accepted as re-applicants the next cycle (but obviously don't lie and overestimate either).

Confirming your anecdote--Katie Molina gave me the 800 # for volunteer hours as well when I applied last year.

Also, Everglide, thanks for the contact info! Forgot to pm you back 🙂

 

[M91Legacy]

Just to make sure I am doing things correctly.....

Is the secondary really something you print out, complete, and mail in via snail-mail?????
So unheard of! Driving me crazy just downloading all the documents.

Thank you!

Yea.... 2 copies of items 1-5 haha...

 

[MTUAST3307]

I'm not sure, of course the non-volunteer hours come into play but I'm not sure how. Before I was applying, I was told an anecdote from a non-adcom member (so not verified), they specifically look for 800 volunteer hours as "the magic number" for committee review.

So... basically do not under-estimate your hours, that seems to be a reoccurring problem for some who are rejected and subsequently accepted as re-applicants the next cycle (but obviously don't lie and overestimate either).

I really hope the EC's are looked at in addition to the volunteer hours. I would think that the combination of work, EC's, and Volunteer would paint a good overall picture of the applicant to show you've been busy preparing for Med School. Right now I have 550 Volunteer and 1550 EC.

Another thing that might help people boost hours is to email an NHS or Student Council Adviser, or even a coach from high school about traditional projects. I did this and it made me remember about 80 hours of volunteer stuff from high school that I had overlooked/completely forgotten about.

Also, this may sound a little desperate but do you think counting unpaid babysitting for relatives is a stretch? It's not like I wouldn't have done it in the the first place, or have expected to be paid...just a thought.

 

[Lijia4]

I really hope the EC's are looked at in addition to the volunteer hours. I would think that the combination of work, EC's, and Volunteer would paint a good overall picture of the applicant to show you've been busy preparing for Med School. Right now I have 550 Volunteer and 1550 EC.

Another thing that might help people boost hours is to email an NHS or Student Council Adviser, or even a coach from high school about traditional projects. I did this and it made me remember about 80 hours of volunteer stuff from high school that I had overlooked/completely forgotten about.

Also, this may sound a little desperate but do you think counting unpaid babysitting for relatives is a stretch? It's not like I wouldn't have done it in the the first place, or have expected to be paid...just a thought.

Katie provided me the example that consistently mowing the lawn for an elderly neighbor would count. I provided free childcare for a friend while her husband was away in Iraq and included this as well. I was accepted so apparently it counts.

 

[SisterDisco08]

...Can we just drop off our applications instead of mailing them in?

 

[fzwarrior]

Does anybody know if it hurts to apply to both the DO and MD programs at MSU? I know some places will not allow you to apply to more than one program or they will discard your application.

 

[Everglide]

Does anybody know if it hurts to apply to both the DO and MD programs at MSU? I know some places will not allow you to apply to more than one program or they will discard your application.

You can definitely apply to both. Most people do. They're separate colleges, administrations, adcoms, etc. The basic science courses for 1st year are combined but that's about it.

 

[ziprasidone1]

This may seem like an odd question... but is everyone printing out the forms and filling everything out by hand or typing things out?

 

[drgioiadds]

I typed everything either on the sheet provided or made a new one exactly the way they wanted it. I sent all my copies back in the mail. I sent copies of the LOR forms to my evaluators, one through email and one I gave physically with the form indicating I waive my rights. The other one I faxed a copy to the school that I waived my rights and they accepted that.

 

[M91Legacy]

This may seem like an odd question... but is everyone printing out the forms and filling everything out by hand or typing things out?

Typed it out and printed it..

 

[MTUAST3307]

wooo verified today at 3pm! Also started my EMT course today! What a great Friday. Bring on the secondaries next week!

 

[drgioiadds]

I'm getting excited for this school! Decisions start after labour day!!

 

[spiffybob57]

I'm getting excited for this school! Decisions start after labour day!!

Yay!

On a slightly related note, does anyone know if MSU delays decisions if someone doesn't have a required course done yet? A friend of mine said he had to wait until December for his acceptance because he hadn't taken biochem yet. I don't know how often they do this, and it makes me nervous because I'm taking a behavioral science course this fall and I don't want to wait until December to get a reply from MSU...

 

[DrMeowMeow]

I doubt it. I'm sure there are a bunch of people that won't complete all the pre-requisites until the last semester and that would be really late in the cycle to get a decision

 

[Lijia4]

Yay!

On a slightly related note, does anyone know if MSU delays decisions if someone doesn't have a required course done yet? A friend of mine said he had to wait until December for his acceptance because he hadn't taken biochem yet. I don't know how often they do this, and it makes me nervous because I'm taking a behavioral science course this fall and I don't want to wait until December to get a reply from MSU...

I was accepted late last fall (was not complete until late October 😳) before I had even enrolled in a genetics course. After the acceptance email they follow it up with another email informing you of whatever remaining courses you need to take prior to matriculation.

 

[BossDoc]

Does MSU-COM do silent rejections pre-secondary? I haven't heard anything and my primary was released 7/28. FWIW, I am OOS.

 

[Lijia4]

Does MSU-COM do silent rejections pre-secondary? I haven't heard anything and my primary was released 7/28. FWIW, I am OOS.

Hmm..I'm not sure. If you meet the minimum for MCAT/gpa scores you should be automatically receiving a secondary from what I remember Katie Molina telling me.