Official 2014-2015 "Please help me rank these IM Programs" Megathread

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I have read a lot of this thread so I figured I would contribute and throw my list into the mix. Pretty set on it but I am open to any opinions.

1. OHSU
2. CU Denver
3. Vanderbilt
4. Wisconsin
5. Mayo
6. Utah
7. Nebraska
8.Minnesota
9. Wash U.
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Hmm I think Wash U should go up at least three spots (i would move it much much higher), unless you hated it SO much.
 
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footballyus said:
Hmm I think Wash U should go up at least three spots (i would move it much much higher), unless you hated it SO much.
Click to expand...

I see your point. I just didn't really care for it. Its awesome no doubt, just liked the feel of the other places better.
 
I'm an IMG planning on doing pulm/crit. Here's my top 3. Any advice?

1. UAB
2. CCF
3. Pennsylvania Hospital
 
Having a hard time deciding my 1 and 2 (Cornell vs. Penn) - am interested in Heme/Onc most probably, but relatively open to changing my mind...


Cornell - Am currently in NYC and the idea of staying close to family and friends is very appealing - especially given some extenuating family circumstances. Heme/Onc obviously very strong here -- MSK is a huge draw. Ancillary staff is obviously a glaring negative. Liked the residents. Had one weird interview that kinda turned me off a bit, but overall liked the program.

Penn- Not the biggest fan of Philly ("Its not New York") and its further from my family/friends (though marginal - it is something to consider given the possibility that I may need to go home to NYC occasionally.) Overall, Loved Penn -- residents were great, PD is a boss, and its arguably the stronger program overall (not just heme/onc). Had an Education Track and that was really tempting for me.

Basically I feel the argument boils down to the program I liked more (Penn) versus the program that had a better location for me (Cornell). I know it ends up coming down to a personal decision, but any input that would help me choose between these two would be greatly appreciated. Would it be silly to put Cornell > Penn?

P.S. I'm very aware this is a wonderful "problem" to have and that I will end up just fine at either program. Pls humor me
 
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AnimusRelic said:
Having a hard time deciding my 1 and 2 (Cornell vs. Penn) - am interested in Heme/Onc most probably, but relatively open to changing my mind...


Cornell - Am currently in NYC and the idea of staying close to family and friends is very appealing - especially given some extenuating family circumstances. Heme/Onc obviously very strong here -- MSK is a huge draw. Ancillary staff is obviously a glaring negative. Liked the residents. Had one weird interview that kinda turned me off a bit, but overall liked the program.

Penn- Not the biggest fan of Philly ("Its not New York") and its further from my family/friends (though marginal - it is something to consider given the possibility that I may need to go home to NYC occasionally.) Overall, Loved Penn -- residents were great, PD is a boss, and its arguably the stronger program overall (not just heme/onc). Had an Education Track and that was really tempting for me.

Basically I feel the argument boils down to the program I liked more (Penn) versus the program that had a better location for me (Cornell). I know it ends up coming down to a personal decision, but any input that would help me choose between these two would be greatly appreciated. Would it be silly to put Cornell > Penn?

P.S. I'm very aware this is a wonderful "problem" to have and that I will end up just fine at either program. Pls humor me
Click to expand...

It wouldn't be silly if location is that big of an issue for you. However, if you liked Penn that much, then I would definitely choose Penn first.
 
AnimusRelic said:
Having a hard time deciding my 1 and 2 (Cornell vs. Penn) - am interested in Heme/Onc most probably, but relatively open to changing my mind...


Cornell - Am currently in NYC and the idea of staying close to family and friends is very appealing - especially given some extenuating family circumstances. Heme/Onc obviously very strong here -- MSK is a huge draw. Ancillary staff is obviously a glaring negative. Liked the residents. Had one weird interview that kinda turned me off a bit, but overall liked the program.

Penn- Not the biggest fan of Philly ("Its not New York") and its further from my family/friends (though marginal - it is something to consider given the possibility that I may need to go home to NYC occasionally.) Overall, Loved Penn -- residents were great, PD is a boss, and its arguably the stronger program overall (not just heme/onc). Had an Education Track and that was really tempting for me.

Basically I feel the argument boils down to the program I liked more (Penn) versus the program that had a better location for me (Cornell). I know it ends up coming down to a personal decision, but any input that would help me choose between these two would be greatly appreciated. Would it be silly to put Cornell > Penn?

P.S. I'm very aware this is a wonderful "problem" to have and that I will end up just fine at either program. Pls humor me
Click to expand...

Agree with Obiwan. If location is a big issue that reasonably trumps all other factors. At the same time, it sounds like you got a great feel from Penn and from a pure reputation/ranking standpoint it is a cut above.
 
#3 - 7

Montefiore
Maryland
Loyola
USC
Rush

I would like to push Maryland up (better vibe with residents, doesn't seem as scutty) but Montefiore is appealing (connections to NYC, very decent fellowship match, concerned a bit about scut). Would this make that much of a difference? Also, am I crazy to rank Loyola above USC? I really loved USC (advising, fellowship opportunities, PD) but this was a concession for "personal reasons." The main sacrifice I see is mainly location, to be honest. Other than that, I think Rush is in the right place on my list. Loyola to me ~= Rush, with a slight edge towards Loyola for me. I didn't really like the virtually single hospital system at Rush and it seems like they might have the shorter end of the stick in the Medical District with the competition with UIC. I appreciated the fact that Loyola had a really distinct mission in the patient population that they were treating and that they were a bit removed from Chicago downtown with 5 large academic medical centers w/ residencies.

Merci beaucoup!
 
merp said:
#3 - 7

Montefiore
Maryland
Loyola
USC
Rush

I would like to push Maryland up (better vibe with residents, doesn't seem as scutty) but Montefiore is appealing (connections to NYC, very decent fellowship match, concerned a bit about scut). Would this make that much of a difference? Also, am I crazy to rank Loyola above USC? I really loved USC (advising, fellowship opportunities, PD) but this was a concession for "personal reasons." The main sacrifice I see is mainly location, to be honest. Other than that, I think Rush is in the right place on my list. Loyola to me ~= Rush, with a slight edge towards Loyola for me. I didn't really like the virtually single hospital system at Rush and it seems like they might have the shorter end of the stick in the Medical District with the competition with UIC. I appreciated the fact that Loyola had a really distinct mission in the patient population that they were treating and that they were a bit removed from Chicago downtown with 5 large academic medical centers w/ residencies.

Merci beaucoup!
Click to expand...
Good programs. If you likes Maryland more then put it highier you'l be happier come match day.
 
merp said:
#3 - 7

Montefiore
Maryland
Loyola
USC
Rush

I would like to push Maryland up (better vibe with residents, doesn't seem as scutty) but Montefiore is appealing (connections to NYC, very decent fellowship match, concerned a bit about scut). Would this make that much of a difference? Also, am I crazy to rank Loyola above USC? I really loved USC (advising, fellowship opportunities, PD) but this was a concession for "personal reasons." The main sacrifice I see is mainly location, to be honest. Other than that, I think Rush is in the right place on my list. Loyola to me ~= Rush, with a slight edge towards Loyola for me. I didn't really like the virtually single hospital system at Rush and it seems like they might have the shorter end of the stick in the Medical District with the competition with UIC. I appreciated the fact that Loyola had a really distinct mission in the patient population that they were treating and that they were a bit removed from Chicago downtown with 5 large academic medical centers w/ residencies.

Merci beaucoup!
Click to expand...
If it were me:
Maryland
USC
Monte
Rush
Loyola

Je t'en prie
 
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California Applicant. I am biased towards SoCal programs for family reasons. Currently thinking of GI fellowship.
1. UCLA
2. Cedars-Sinai
3. UCSD
4. UCLA-Harbor
5. UC Irvine
6. UC Davis
7. Scripps Green
8. SCVMC
9. CPMC
10. UCLA-OV

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
chahn85 said:
Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...
GTFO of Cali. Y0u asked for advice, and that's the best and most honest advice I can give you

But since you're clearly not interested in listening to reason, the order you have these programs in is not unreasonable.
 
Hi. What are your thoughts on this part of my rank list, in this order? I’m interested in fellowship but haven’t decided on what. My guiding principles are interest in the Midwest, how much I liked the people I met, and whether I think it would be a fun place to live. Is there something here you would object to?

Michigan
Minnesota
Mayo
UPMC
Wisconsin
Yale
Vanderbilt
OHSU
 
Robinson Crusoe said:
Hi. What are your thoughts on this part of my rank list, in this order? I’m interested in fellowship but haven’t decided on what. My guiding principles are interest in the Midwest, how much I liked the people I met, and whether I think it would be a fun place to live. Is there something here you would object to?

Michigan
Minnesota
Mayo
UPMC
Wisconsin
Yale
Vanderbilt
OHSU
Click to expand...
dont think rochester mn is "fun to live" in.
 
chahn85 said:
California Applicant. I am biased towards SoCal programs for family reasons. Currently thinking of GI fellowship.
1. UCLA
2. Cedars-Sinai
3. UCSD
4. UCLA-Harbor
5. UC Irvine
6. UC Davis
7. Scripps Green
8. SCVMC
9. CPMC
10. UCLA-OV

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Flip UCSD and Cedars. Place UCDavis above Harbor and UCIrvine.

That's what I'd do... but you wanna stay in LA so it's fine the way it is.
 
Robinson Crusoe said:
Hi. What are your thoughts on this part of my rank list, in this order? I’m interested in fellowship but haven’t decided on what. My guiding principles are interest in the Midwest, how much I liked the people I met, and whether I think it would be a fun place to live. Is there something here you would object to?

Michigan
Minnesota
Mayo
UPMC
Wisconsin
Yale
Vanderbilt
OHSU
Click to expand...
UMinn above Wisconsin is a travesty. Otherwise it's fine. Weird, but fine.
 
gutonc said:
GTFO of Cali. Y0u asked for advice, and that's the best and most honest advice I can give you

But since you're clearly not interested in listening to reason, the order you have these programs in is not unreasonable.
Click to expand...

Wait, you always say GTFO NYC. Now GTFO Cali? Where should we go???
 
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NYU is a solid high/mid-tier medicine program, while the others are more mid-tier. NYU matches very well into H/O and CC as well, unfortunately can't speak on the subspecialty reputations of the other institutions.
 
AnimusRelic said:
Having a hard time deciding my 1 and 2 (Cornell vs. Penn) - am interested in Heme/Onc most probably, but relatively open to changing my mind...


Would it be silly to put Cornell > Penn?
Click to expand...

First of all, I don't think it's crazy or "silly" at all to put Cornell above Penn. Yes, US News ranks Penn higher, but location is important. Specialty-wise, your chances are pretty much the same from both places. Now, if you're an MD/PHD or crazy into research and want to be in a super academic setting in the future, then I'd probably rank Penn higher because they place a strong emphasis on that. On the other hand, if you want your attendings to have a higher ratio of clinical:research experience, maybe Cornell is your choice. One thing about Penn to keep in mind is that they still have paper charts and multiple confusing EMR systems. I personally don't mind paper charts, but that's something I noticed many people in the interview trail feel strongly about. Also, although imo NY>>Philly, Philly is supposed to be an awesome place for good food =D - a lot of my friends there really like it. It is kind of a pain in the ass to travel between the two so it's kinda up to you. You really can't go wrong, you have awesome choices!
 
What do you guys think of Brown vs. Georgetown for cards?

Brown:
Pros - Friendly residents and staff, VA, Providence pretty nice city
Cons - Mediocre match

Georgetown:
Pros - Friendly residents, VA, wide match, WHC
Cons - Expensive, 5 or 6 hospital rotations
 
Robinson Crusoe said:
Is that just because you like Bennett Vogelman so much, or another reason? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Bennett is part of it but it's a much stronger program overall than UMinn. I understand not wanting to be in a college town but since Ann Arbor is your #1, that's clearly not an issue for you.
 
Robinson Crusoe said:
Hi. What are your thoughts on this part of my rank list, in this order? I’m interested in fellowship but haven’t decided on what. My guiding principles are interest in the Midwest, how much I liked the people I met, and whether I think it would be a fun place to live. Is there something here you would object to?

Michigan
Minnesota
Mayo
UPMC
Wisconsin
Yale
Vanderbilt
OHSU
Click to expand...

Mayo below Yale.
I posted this elsewhere but here it is again:

Mayo clinic.
Is it really as good as this forum makes it out to be? I did 2 away electives there and was very disappointed. Interns were overworked and unhappy, a couple even regretted going into Medicine in the first place. Many residents come in at 5:45 and stay back until 9pm. Most interns doing 78-79 hours a week. For a hospital that gets that much good press I found that it lacks social work (not all the time though, we've had good NPs a few times). Some couldn't stay awake during noon conferences. The ones that did stay awake got paged too many times for them to be able to stay. Similar to CCF it is VERY resident/fellow lead. I've only stayed there for ~2 months but I didn't see many involved in research. It's not too big on academics, relatively speaking

Being the biggest hospital in the middle of nowhere, expect getting lots of transfers from other hospitals that couldn't handle the case and you're stuck with a pile of written records transfered or, even worse, no records. The EMR interface isn't the best too.

Also, if you think going to the "#1 hospital" (according to US News report...if you listen to that) is a good thing. Try having patient after patient expect the absolute infallible patient care ever, and if you make a small mistake or even have a misunderstanding, they suddenly want to sue you because "they thought they were at Mayo Clinic". They criticize everything, from how the room is laid out to the nursing staff to you. You will hear "I thought this was Mayo Clinic" a few times a week. It is a hospital definitely more geared towards the patients than residents. Oh yea, didn't receive a single verbal feedback from attendings.

The "city" was very boring. I got depressed for a bit the 2.5 months I was there. Freezing Cold. If you're single...well good luck finding a SO there.

I'm not saying it's a bad program. But every time I see it being ranked #1 with other great programs on the list I cringe and feel that that person is deceived by the name. Why does CCF get the shaft on here when Mayo isn't any different?
 
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throwaway1988 said:
Mayo below Yale.
I posted this elsewhere but here it is again:

Mayo clinic.
Is it really as good as this forum makes it out to be? I did 2 away electives there and was very disappointed. Interns were overworked and unhappy, a couple even regretted going into Medicine in the first place. Many residents come in at 5:45 and stay back until 9pm. Most interns doing 78-79 hours a week. For a hospital that gets that much good press I found that it lacks social work (not all the time though, we've had good NPs a few times). Some couldn't stay awake during noon conferences. The ones that did stay awake got paged too many times for them to be able to stay. Similar to CCF it is VERY resident/fellow lead. I've only stayed there for ~2 months but I didn't see many involved in research. It's not too big on academics, relatively speaking

Being the biggest hospital in the middle of nowhere, expect getting lots of transfers from other hospitals that couldn't handle the case and you're stuck with a pile of written records transfered or, even worse, no records. The EMR interface isn't the best too.

Also, if you think going to the "#1 hospital" (according to US News report...if you listen to that) is a good thing. Try having patient after patient expect the absolute infallible patient care ever, and if you make a small mistake or even have a misunderstanding, they suddenly want to sue you because "they thought they were at Mayo Clinic". They criticize everything, from how the room is laid out to the nursing staff to you. You will hear "I thought this was Mayo Clinic" a few times a week. It is a hospital definitely more geared towards the patients than residents. Oh yea, didn't receive a single verbal feedback from attendings.

The "city" was very boring. I got depressed for a bit the 2.5 months I was there. Freezing Cold. If you're single...well good luck finding a SO there.

I'm not saying it's a bad program. But every time I see it being ranked #1 with other great programs on the list I cringe and feel that that person is deceived by the name. Why does CCF get the shaft on here when Mayo isn't any different?
Click to expand...
Hey I am sorry you where not invited to interview at Mayo but stop the hating. A strong candidate as he/she will most likely succeed at any of those great programs.
 
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Medical-student said:
Hey I am sorry you where not invited to interview at Mayo but stop the hating. A strong candidate as he/she will most likely succeed at any of those great programs.
Click to expand...

In his 6 posts, he's told a medical student potentially interested in IM to pursue radiology for one post, badmouthed Mayo for 3 of them, and then submitted a ROL "for a friend," which he tried to delete after advice was given.
 
I have my 1-3 pretty set and have questions about my 4-8

4. Baylor
5. UAB
6. UTSW
7. MUSC
8. Wake Forrest

Interested in pursuing rheum, I think my it comes down to location for these. Am I making a mistake by ranking Baylor 4? I had questions about diversity in Dallas and UAB, otherwise I may be ranking them higher. Anyone have perspective about living in Dallas or Birmingham? I also really liked MUSC but I feel Charleston may be too small for me.
 
lollybo said:
I have my 1-3 pretty set and have questions about my 4-8

4. Baylor
5. UAB
6. UTSW
7. MUSC
8. Wake Forrest

Interested in pursuing rheum, I think my it comes down to location for these. Am I making a mistake by ranking Baylor 4? I had questions about diversity in Dallas and UAB, otherwise I may be ranking them higher. Anyone have perspective about living in Dallas or Birmingham? I also really liked MUSC but I feel Charleston may be too small for me.
Click to expand...

Fellow applicant here- I'd put UTSW as 4th myself. (In fact I applied only to UTSW from your list of 5 and really liked it). I've been to Birmingham a few times and would hate to live there. But it depends on your background and how ok you are with smaller towns. I thought Dallas looked like a fun enough city with plenty to do. I'd imagine Houston would be more diverse though.
 
I would also add suspicion to the claims about Mayo a few posts back. I know an intern there that has repeatedly told me that they work less now overall than they did as a 3rd year med student, for whatever that's worth. I'm betting that it's slightly easier than many major academic centers, especially with the 4/4, but still going to be rigorous.

I did have a question for you guys about two that are on my list: UCSD and Vanderbilt.

Trying to figure out which to rank higher than the other. The ultimate goal is GI in the west (any state west of Colorado), in Cali would be nice. This is for family reasons, but family would be ok with Nashville for a few years before Cali (not as ideal for them, fine for me). But I don't want to get a "second tier" experience (whatever that means) in either residency or fellowship. I guess I would feel "prouder" about being at Vandy, and I know this is a stupid thing to like. So this also has me double taking on UCSDs GI match list, which seems very UCSD and lower Cali programs heavy. Any advice would be great and good luck everyone!
 
jj55342 said:
I did have a question for you guys about two that are on my list: UCSD and Vanderbilt.

Trying to figure out which to rank higher than the other. The ultimate goal is GI in the west (any state west of Colorado), in Cali would be nice. This is for family reasons, but family would be ok with Nashville for a few years before Cali (not as ideal for them, fine for me). But I don't want to get a "second tier" experience (whatever that means) in either residency or fellowship. I guess I would feel "prouder" about being at Vandy, and I know this is a stupid thing to like. So this also has me double taking on UCSDs GI match list, which seems very UCSD and lower Cali programs heavy. Any advice would be great and good luck everyone!
Click to expand...

UCSD is definitely a tier below Vanderbilt for general internal medicine, but both are solid programs. If you want to keep an open mind, I would definitely rank Vanderbilt higher. I feel there could be more national mobility for fellowship coming out of a top-tier institution like Vanderbilt. If you're dead-set on GI and the west coast, UCSD may give you the geographical advantage and you may not have to move for fellowship (although a resident told me they don't play favorites with in-house GI candidates). If you compare the GI match lists across both residency programs, Vanderbilt hardly matches to the west coast, but this is likely due to geographical self-selection.
 
iniquus said:
UCSD is definitely a tier below Vanderbilt for general internal medicine, but both are solid programs. If you want to keep an open mind, I would definitely rank Vanderbilt higher. I feel there could be more national mobility for fellowship coming out of a top-tier institution like Vanderbilt. If you're dead-set on GI and the west coast, UCSD may give you the geographical advantage and you may not have to move for fellowship (although a resident told me they don't play favorites with in-house GI candidates). If you compare the GI match lists across both residency programs, Vanderbilt hardly matches to the west coast, but this is likely due to geographical self-selection.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. That's what I was thinking, I have to sell the idea to family though. What does "tier below" even mean, though? Is the residency experience going to be all that different? And I'm pretty set on both West (not necessarily coast) and GI, but am wondering if Vandy would set me up for that better anyway, you know?
 
jj55342 said:
Thanks for the reply. That's what I was thinking, I have to sell the idea to family though. What does "tier below" even mean, though? Is the residency experience going to be all that different? And I'm pretty set on both West (not necessarily coast) and GI, but am wondering if Vandy would set me up for that better anyway, you know?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately cannot comment on UCSD but know that Vandy residents interview wherever they want, including west coast. Many simply choose to stay. It is a phenomenal program with a strong national pull from what I have learned from my colleagues who are residents there now.
 
Aequanimitatis said:
Unfortunately cannot comment on UCSD but know that Vandy residents interview wherever they want, including west coast. Many simply choose to stay. It is a phenomenal program with a strong national pull from what I have learned from my colleagues who are residents there now.
Click to expand...

Ya that's what I was thinking. Would be likely easier to end up somewhere like UCLA or even UCSF from Vandy vs UCSD maybe. I don't know, just seems like more doors are open.
 
jj55342 said:
Thanks for the reply. That's what I was thinking, I have to sell the idea to family though. What does "tier below" even mean, though? Is the residency experience going to be all that different? And I'm pretty set on both West (not necessarily coast) and GI, but am wondering if Vandy would set me up for that better anyway, you know?
Click to expand...

"Tier below" means the arbitrary ranking scheme seen on SDN, US News, NIH funding, Doximity, faculty and graduate opinions. I don't think many people would argue that Vanderbilt and UCSD are in separate microscopic tiers, but whether or not the experience will be that different--I can't answer because I'm a fourth-year like you and it's impossible for anyone to have done both IM residencies.

I will say solely based on my interview days, I was much more impressed with the camaraderie and quality of training at Vanderbilt than UCSD. I think I would graduate Vanderbilt the stronger, more confident IM resident. They also had very different cultures and different schedules even. Vandy exuded a Southern-formal, supportive and friendly vibe when compared to the younger, more laidback, sunny UCSD. You can even see the difference when you compare the PDs, which were equally great in their own ways. I think Vandy is on block schedule and UCSD wasn't.

I wouldn't choose a program based on their fellowship match list in a given year--they're somewhat difficult to read into as medical school match lists are. Personally, I'd go to Vanderbilt if I was happy with going anywhere for GI (residents told me they interviewed coast to coast for what it's worth), but since you mention California specifically, I'd try to quantify the advantage UCSD would bring you. I'm sure these Cali programs have more experience with UCSD graduates than Vanderbilt graduates.
 
Hopefully we'll get someone with more experience than us to weigh in. This is interesting. I think both will get the OP to where they want given staying in the area/Cali is made easier coming from an institution that they fellowships may be more familiar with.

Bottom line for me: I think both can get you there jj. Q is your family consideration and where you think you will come out trained the way you want to be. Personally, while Vanderbilt is not my #1 for personal considerations; at least as far as the program is concerned I believe it to arguably be the most well-rounded program in the country with their multiple inpatient units, better inpt/outpt balance now with a 4+2 for all 3 years, NIH funding that will surpass Penn for #3 in the country this year. It has it all. And it's warm, and Nashville is sweet and not terribly expensive yet. And all hospitals are connected. Very hard to go wrong with Vanderbilt.
 
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Aequanimitatis said:
Hopefully we'll get someone with more experience than us to weigh in. This is interesting. I think both will get the OP to where they want given staying in the area/Cali is made easier coming from an institution that they fellowships may be more familiar with.

Bottom line for me: I think both can get you there jj. Q is your family consideration and where you think you will come out trained the way you want to be. Personally, while Vanderbilt is not my #1 for personal considerations; at least as far as the program is concerned I believe it to arguably be the most well-rounded program in the country with their multiple inpatient units, better inpt/outpt balance now with a 4+2 for all 3 years, NIH funding that will surpass Penn for #3 in the country this year. It has it all. And it's warm, and Nashville is sweet and not terribly expensive yet. And all hospitals are connected. Very hard to go wrong with Vanderbilt.
Click to expand...

Ya that's a good point, fellowship might end up being the same for Cali with the loss of local influence but gain of national influence, but the road to get there will be different. I did get a better feel at Vandy. You both make good points. I was impressed by UCSDs NIH funding, better than UCLA even I think. But then attendings at my med school keep wondering about the training experience, which I feel is such a nebulous idea and may not mean that much between these two places anyway. I mean, I don't really envision that I would be that different of a med student now based on where I went, a lot of it has been up to me. I guess I'm leaning more towards Vandy but it helps to hear all this anyway
 
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Probably won't help, but I bumped vandy to my number 2 earlier today. Not looking at GI though..
 
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