Official 2017-2018 Help Me Rank Megathread [Internal Medicine]

[IMreshopeful]

Curious how you all would rank these programs, since some are low tier university programs and some are high tier community programs:

VCU
UConn
Carolinas
Ochsner
University of Miami Holy Cross
University of Miami Palm Beach

Thanks a lot!

VCU is not a lower tier program. It’s an upper mid tier with good fellowship match results across specialties

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[ilovemacaroons]

VCU is not a lower tier program. It’s an upper mid tier with good fellowship match results across specialties

Can you comment on the other places? Thanks.

 

[IMreshopeful]

Can you comment on the other places? Thanks.

All similar although Oschner is probably best of them. Rank the remainder how you liked them.

 

[Cardsathon]

Does anyone have any knowledge of how much inpatient time you have at Northwestern vs the x+y programs? From the online curricula it looks like you have quite a bit more time on the wards in all 3 years at Northwestern than you would at an x+y program like Penn or Duke.

I loved the atmosphere of Northwestern but the idea of having such a heavy inpatient experience is unsettling. As is having to go to clinic and then come back to the wards once a week for continuity clinic.

Cheers!

 

[MyTachyBradyHeart]

Hey all. Happy with my #1/2. Having a harder time with #3-5. Goal right now is hospitalist with emphasis on med ed. Could change through residency, I know.

Penn: most prestigious, most career opportunities, strong med ed track; less desirable for me to live in downtown Philly, less sense of "fit" with residents/faculty
Vandy: I liked Nashville and a had good feeling of "fit" with faculty and residents. still strong program; less med ed stuff
UCLA: best location, strong training, med ed track, good feeling of fit; cost and traffic of LA, "less prestigious" than the other 2 (?)

Let me know what you think! Thanks!

Always go with fit over prestige. Deciding between Vanderbilt and UCLA comes down to location, as you would imagine. Both are excellent programs with equally good prestige nation-wide. Do you like Hollywood or country music more?

Does anyone have any knowledge of how much inpatient time you have at Northwestern vs the x+y programs? From the online curricula it looks like you have quite a bit more time on the wards in all 3 years at Northwestern than you would at an x+y program like Penn or Duke.

I loved the atmosphere of Northwestern but the idea of having such a heavy inpatient experience is unsettling. As is having to go to clinic and then come back to the wards once a week for continuity clinic.

Cheers!

If you liked the atmosphere of Northwestern, you should rank it high. The actual rotation schedule at Northwestern not as busy as other programs (i.e. ICU call q4 instead of q3 for upper levels, more elective time during intern year than some other programs, etc). While I personally trained at an x+y program and cannot imagine leaving the wards to go to clinic, plenty of doctors have been trained that way and it does not impact their residency experience at all. In addition, the benefit is more continuity with your clinic patients as you have clinic availability every week to see your sickly patients. For example, my primary care clinic was at a VA and with x+y schedule, I could not follow up some of my extremely sick patients as I only had availability every 6 weeks.

 

[lafamilia]

Throwing my list in the ring for any helpful insight. I am interested in either cards or pulm/cc, with plans to move to California for fellowship and go into PP in the southwest. Maybe switch to academia later down the line which I know is tough to do. (wife is from California). I go back and forth often for my #1 and #2:

1. UCSD
2. Emory
3. UC Davis
4. Cedars
5. U Miami
6. MUSC
7. UCLA OV
8. Minnesota (loved it here and would move it up, but wife will never do -13 deg F cold)
9. Montefiore
10. Tulane
11. Hofstra
12. Rush (not a good fit)
13. UCLA Harbor (not a good fit)

If anyone has any legit insight into the strength of Emory's Pulm/CC training/match and how likely I can go to the west coast from there, that'd be a big help. So far, it seems like they match few of their residents into pulm/cc, and most either stay in house or on the east coast.

 

[pandh83]

Throwing my list in the ring for any helpful insight. I am interested in either cards or pulm/cc, with plans to move to California for fellowship and go into PP in the southwest. Maybe switch to academia later down the line which I know is tough to do. (wife is from California). I go back and forth often for my #1 and #2:

1. UCSD
2. Emory
3. UC Davis
4. Cedars
5. U Miami
6. MUSC
7. UCLA OV
8. Minnesota (loved it here and would move it up, but wife will never do -13 deg F cold)
9. Montefiore
10. Tulane
11. Hofstra
12. Rush (not a good fit)
13. UCLA Harbor (not a good fit)

If anyone has any legit insight into the strength of Emory's Pulm/CC training/match and how likely I can go to the west coast from there, that'd be a big help. So far, it seems like they match few of their residents into pulm/cc, and most either stay in house or on the east coast.

USCD over Emory just because if you want to move into fellowship in California. Regional ties matter a lot especially in California so if u pick a California program ur likely to get a California fellowship. Atlanta and SD are great cities to live in but Atlanta wins if you care about COL otherwise SD is better for fun because of its proximity to LA/OC and nature.

 

[Anicetus]

USCD over Emory just because if you want to move into fellowship in California. Regional ties matter a lot especially in California so if u pick a California program ur likely to get a California fellowship. Atlanta and SD are great cities to live in but Atlanta wins if you care about COL otherwise SD is better for fun because of its proximity to LA/OC and nature.

I was under the impression that competitive fellowships valued name brand of the residency rather than just regional location - however with UCSD and Emory they are both big name brands and so UCSD is the obvious choice. But if it were a situation of comparing Emory to Harbor-UCLA would Emory then be your answer (aside from the fact that OP didn’t feel a good fit there)?

 

[destinedtoserve]

OK, at the end of the day, I'm just a student like you...but what is making you drop this bombshell on USC?

Lol..Looks like my post sounded more scandalous than I meant it to. I meant to say after asking questions about things that are important to me, I felt it would not be a good fit for me. Gut feeling or watevs.

 

[Researchie]

Need help with #2- #8 . My fiancé is a web software designer, so I'm hoping to move to an affordable city which would be enable him to easily find work. I was thinking of a possible GI fellowship in future, and am very interested in a program with both strong clinical training and research opportunities.

2.) Yale-Pros: Excellent GI fellowship match, good research opportunities, awesome global health opportunities. 2 hrs from Boston. Cons: New Haven is a less desirable and expensive city.
3.) UAB--Pros: Good GI fellowship match, great research opps, strong clinical training. Birmingham is 2 hrs from Atlanta, which has a good job market for web software design. Birmingham has relatively low COL. Within driving distance of family. Cons: Never lived down South--not really sure about location.
4.) Baylor--Pros: OK GI fellowship match, strong clinical training. OK COL Cons: Seems not to have as good research opps as programs above. Not sure about job market for web software design.
5.) UCSD--Pros: OK GI fellowship match, strong clinicals, strong research. Good job market. Cons: Very far from family, expensive COL.
6.) Mayo--Pros: Excellent GI match (most stay at Mayo), OK clinicals, excellent research. Low COL. Cons: Cush reputation. Far from family, and job market uncertain.
7.) Boston U--Probably won't be ranked here--interview went really poorly. However--good clinicals, good research, great location. Excellent job opportunities for web software Cons: Very high COL, GI match iffy
8.) Case UH --Pros: OK GI fellowship match, Good clinicals, good research. Cons: Didn't really like Cleveland, and not certain of job opps for web software
9.) Utah--Pros: OK GI fellowship match, good clinicals and research. Cons--far from family, job opps.

Thanks!

 

[Redpancreas]

Lol..Looks like my post sounded more scandalous than I meant it to. I meant to say after asking questions about things that are important to me, I felt it would not be a good fit for me. Gut feeling or watevs.

Not really, perhaps bombshell was the wrong word. Fair enough.

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

Need help with #2- #8 . My fiancé is a web software designer, so I'm hoping to move to an affordable city which would be enable him to easily find work. I was thinking of a possible GI fellowship in future, and am very interested in a program with both strong clinical training and research opportunities.

2.) Yale-Pros: Excellent GI fellowship match, good research opportunities, awesome global health opportunities. 2 hrs from Boston. Cons: New Haven is a less desirable and expensive city.
3.) UAB--Pros: Good GI fellowship match, great research opps, strong clinical training. Birmingham is 2 hrs from Atlanta, which has a good job market for web software design. Birmingham has relatively low COL. Within driving distance of family. Cons: Never lived down South--not really sure about location.
4.) Baylor--Pros: OK GI fellowship match, strong clinical training. OK COL Cons: Seems not to have as good research opps as programs above. Not sure about job market for web software design.
5.) UCSD--Pros: OK GI fellowship match, strong clinicals, strong research. Good job market. Cons: Very far from family, expensive COL.
6.) Mayo--Pros: Excellent GI match (most stay at Mayo), OK clinicals, excellent research. Low COL. Cons: Cush reputation. Far from family, and job market uncertain.
7.) Boston U--Probably won't be ranked here--interview went really poorly. However--good clinicals, good research, great location. Excellent job opportunities for web software Cons: Very high COL, GI match iffy
8.) Case UH --Pros: OK GI fellowship match, Good clinicals, good research. Cons: Didn't really like Cleveland, and not certain of job opps for web software
9.) Utah--Pros: OK GI fellowship match, good clinicals and research. Cons--far from family, job opps.

Thanks!

You will have no problem matching into fellowship from any of these. I recommend you make this decision together with your fiancé rather than strangers. Also consider a program or region not too far from family in the event you like your program and want to stay for fellowship because you never know what happens in life over 7-8 years (such as kids).

 

[Researchie]

You will have no problem matching into fellowship from any of these. I recommend you make this decision together with your fiancé rather than strangers. Also consider a program or region not too far from family in the event you like your program and want to stay for fellowship because you never know what happens in life over 7-8 years (such as kids).

Thanks! Am I crazy for moving Mayo so far down? I've debated placing it under Yale, but the location I think will be a problem.

 

[coffeeclothesaddict]

Im struggling to decide the order between these two programs- Maine Medical Center and Mount Sinai West/St Lukes. If location isnt a factor at all- interested in cardiology. Anyone with any more info about the two programs?

 

[wiloghby]

Im struggling to decide the order between these two programs- Maine Medical Center and Mount Sinai West/St Lukes. If location isnt a factor at all- interested in cardiology. Anyone with any more info about the two programs?

You will probably match better coming from Mount Sinai-SLR (I refuse to call it Sinai West yet), if you can deal with living in Manhattan. But is location really not a factor? I mean, this is probably the largest possible disparity in program location in terms of the surrounding city and culture. If you're more of a Portland Maine person, you might not enjoy training in NYC for 3 years anyway.

 

[lafamilia]

Thank you @pandh83 and @Anicetus for the responses. That's what I kind of figured too--regional bias is big in California. Fitwise, both UCSD and Emory were near perfect. Neither have X+Y but I'm cool with that. Here's to hoping!

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

Thanks! Am I crazy for moving Mayo so far down? I've debated placing it under Yale, but the location I think will be a problem.

Forget program name and think about what you want in your life and career. I went to a residency that I enjoyed, matched in a program for fellowship that fits my goals. I turned down many big names for residency because I saw no reason for going there except ego. I have no regrets. Many may disagree with me.

 

[W19]

Forget program name and think about what you want in your life and career. I went to a residency that I enjoyed, matched in a program for fellowship that fits my goals. I turned down many big names for residency because I saw no reason for going there except ego. I have no regrets. Many may disagree with me.

Most won't disagree with you if you are in GI. It's the subspecialty du jour...

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

If you are an AMG with step 1 >230 and go to any university hospital, you will match into GI without question.

 

[W19]

In the interview trail, about half of the applicants want to do GI with PCCM as a distant second. Is cardio losing its mojo? What's going on?

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

Really? I wish this were all it took LOL.

Speaking from firsthand experience and from several others I know, that's all it really takes (and of course showing an interest in GI).

 

[pandh83]

If you are an AMG with step 1 >230 and go to any university hospital, you will match into GI without question.

Considering AVG is 233 for IM for AMGs I doubt it. If you are from top 50 school and stayed in top 50 IM program you can match into GI with ease but it getting much harder as almost everyone wants to go into GI.

 

[GastriqueGraffin]

Considering AVG is 233 for IM for AMGs I doubt it. If you are from top 50 school and stayed in top 50 IM program you can match into GI with ease but it getting much harder as almost everyone wants to go into GI.

It may go up in a couple years but my comment still stands. Average for IM might be 233 but that's not only for USMD. My point is SDN is very skewed in case you didn't realize it when many of you were applying to medical school to begin with. As long as you did fine in a US MD med school, above average on steps, show interest by just getting involved in GI research, and don't have major red flags especially in residency you will match into GI. You don't have to believe me but it's 100% true.

Until almost all IMGs are pushed out of a field like with many residency specialties, GI will be very attainable to most AMGs reading this post.

 

[rokshana]

You will probably match better coming from Mount Sinai-SLR (I refuse to call it Sinai West yet), if you can deal with living in Manhattan. But is location really not a factor? I mean, this is probably the largest possible disparity in program location in terms of the surrounding city and culture. If you're more of a Portland Maine person, you might not enjoy training in NYC for 3 years anyway.

location wise, Portland >>>NYC, but then i don't like NYC.

 

[pandh83]

It may go up in a couple years but my comment still stands. Average for IM might be 233 but that's not only for USMD. My point is SDN is very skewed in case you didn't realize it when many of you were applying to medical school to begin with. As long as you did fine in a US MD med school, above average on steps, show interest by just getting involved in GI research, and don't have major red flags especially in residency you will match into GI. You don't have to believe me but it's 100% true.

Until almost all IMGs are pushed out of a field like with many residency specialties, GI will be very attainable to most AMGs reading this post.

It is 233 for step 1(Step 2 is 246) for US MDS as per 2016 charting outcomes and I would assume it has gone up for this year's match as well. I do agree with you that you probably will match into GI(80% of US MDs do) but some of the residents I worked with are publishing 4-5 research publications per year just to have a good chance with their average scores. I mean GI's competitiveness is probably going to take a nosedive when if scopes reimbursement ever gets cut.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

From Midwest, interested in Cardiology fellowship. Good location, rather than specific location is important. Thoughts on this rank list?

1. UVA
2. Maryland
3. Jefferson
4. Georgetown
5. Ohio St
6. CCF
7. Rush
8. GW
9. Utah
10. Cincinnati
11. Loyola
12. Temple
13. Miami
14. USC
15. South Florida
16. Iowa
17. VCU
18. Indiana

Strongly caution you against elevating Iowa any higher. Program has fallen from grace. What was a previously strong, supportive, and dynamic program has become weaker quickly. "Teaching" hospitalists are frequently pre-fellows who completed residency at a lower-tier program and are overwhelmed by the complexity/pace of the quaternary center. There is a dreadful culture of over-consulting, and medicine R1s are simply secretaries. Primary care training is absent. Leadership voices support for trainees but fails to deliver. Plus, the enterprise is weakening with the bewildering hire of the new dean/VP Med Affairs.

Cardiology fellowship is quite productive and strong clinically at Iowa. If you happen to be a female, they are reaffirming their commitment to recruiting females as fellows AND faculty in that division. Check back with Iowa City after going somewhere else for residency I suggest.

Temple is not in a "good location." I know a few hospitalist faculty at T Jefferson; seems a strong place. Don't know anything about Cards placement/location.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

Iowa, Indy and Utah are all way too low for their program strength. But if their location is an issue, I guess it's fine. But based on program strength, they should all be in your top 5.

I'm sorry but would have to disagree re: Iowa. Lots of brilliant people there, but the culture of the IM program is spiraling out of control. PD is good teacher but spread very thin. Very weak inpatient experience (faculty, upper level, intern cannot question ER admits. No input into process. Many hospitalists are young, often pre-fellows looking for fellowship match in Cards, GI, or H/O and not great teachers/nervous). MICU has power struggle between APPs and residents which has recently boiled over I'm told. Lots of busy work in the curriculum. Not a program that is focused on graduated autonomy.

With due respect, the suggestion that were in not for location Iowa would be #3 on your list is, in my opinion, patently absurd. Once you're a Cards faculty? Different story. Very well connected Division there (David Skorton former faculty, Mark Anderson former faculty, more).

Indy will work you very hard and is an impersonal-type program but will get you to Cards. Utah good program but it's in Utah.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

Goals:
1.) Very strong clinical training that will provide good resident autonomy and a diverse patient population with both the bread and butter, as well as the rarer cases.
2.) If possible, good opportunities for research
3.) Competitive fellowship

By comparison, very little autonomy at Mayo.

Iowa doesn't rate in any of your criteria (depending on what fellowship you want). Poor autonomy, hyper-consult driven inpt, pt pop not diverse. Some research in H/O particularly and if you want to work hard, Cards. Had a rough fellowship match year before most recent.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

VCU is an exceptional program. The clinical training is superb. The catchment area covers something like 5,000,000 people and you get transfers from UVA, VTC and 35 other nearby hospitals. The VA that is affiliated with VCU is the leading hospital for cardiology in the VA system and they get transfers/referrals from all over the country. The bread and butter is there, but you see the zebras regularly and as new presentations..not just diagnosed already and transferred. There is more autonomy at that program than most university programs, which is excellent, but there's enough supervision as well. It's not the program for everyone, the culture is not malignant whatsoever, but you have to be able to get along with everyone.

Interesting perspective. I thought VCU was gimmicky, program director clearly looking to be upwardly mobile, and IM chair is not strong. I wouldn't have described VCU as exceptional.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

I'm in a similar situation in terms of the Chicago-bias and we do share some interviews, but you definitely have some very competitive places I don't so I'll share my thoughts on the middle of your list. I like how you ranked Iowa above Indiana, I really think it's an underappreciated place and it's potentially going to be my #1. I would consider ranking Loyola below Iowa and Indiana TBH. As you saw on interview day, it's pretty busy and while I don't think it's malignant, I just wasn't as impressed with it as I was with Rush/UIC. Transitioning, if this were my list, UAB would be #2, but I'm sure you have good reasons for what you're doing and don't need someone to regurgitate Doximity to you. It looks good otherwise.

5 years ago Iowa was good borderline great and underappreciated (so didn't draw from blue blood schools). Now it's really not great. However, their H/O fellowship does keep their own.

1. Baylor
2. UAB
3. UIC
4. UT Hou
5. Rush
6. Indy
7. Loyola
8. Miami
9. Henry Ford
10. UF
11. Iowa
12. MCW

Would be my start, though it doesn't favor staying around Chicago specifically.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

If Wisco is not your top choice out of this list, you're doing it wrong.

But you don't need to go on any more interviews from a numbers perspective.

I concur with above. Bennett Vogelman's program is truly outstanding, Madison is magical, and Wisconsin would be at the top of that list for me.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

Hey guys! I have a pretty good idea of my list thus far but I want to make sure nothing is popping out in terms of being misplaced. Help is always appreciated from many perspectives and I'd love to hear from @gutonc because I haven't been steered wrong yet by your advice (as funny as sarcastic as it can be sometimes). Matching GI, mentorship, and space for my family/dog are the most important things. Location is secondary but I'd say the majority of the family is in Ohio. All of my interview days were amazing except Case/UH so it's kind of hard to parse out for me.

1/2. University of Wisconsin= University of Iowa- Iowa was my favorite interview day/residents and I was really impressed and wasn't expecting to be. I also really loved Madison and what they have going on at the program and it seems to have an edge in the GI match/leadership/location.
3. Ohio State
4. Jefferson- REALLY loved the program. Turns out if I want a decent sized yard though I gotta commute an hour via trains or pay $220/month for parking
5. Case/UH- Really wanted to love this program as it's close to home but the interviews themselves made it the worst interview day I had. Really awkward times.
6. Cleveland Clinic
7. University of Utah- Loved Salt Lake and the program but SO isn't fond of moving that far away
8. University of Indiana
9. Beaumont- My home program. I love this place a lot and the people are amazing. Hurts that I have it ranked so low. If I were doing cards, pulm, heme/onc this place would be atop my list because they send people everywhere, but the reality is the GI match just isn't that strong and they only have 2 slots in their GI fellowship.
10. University of Nebraska- Also loved it here but so similar to all the other midwest programs and further away.

-- My comments

Wisconsin is superior to Iowa in almost every way I could imagine (including GI match and mentorship). The two programs are not on the same level. Iowa pulls out all the stops on interview day but is not nearly so rosy later on.

1. Wisconsin (left it #1 because you had it there, and I could agree)
2. TJeff
3. Cleveland (though mentorship won't just happen)
4. Case
5. Ohio State
6. Indy
7. Utah (since you can do the Salt Lake City thing)
8. Iowa
9. Beaumont
10. Nebraska (doesn't send competitive matches beyond their own or neighboring programs usually)

 

[RenalPolemicist]

Hello docs! Im an M4 aspiring to be a cardiologist in the future, and I was hoping you guys would be able to mentor the s*** out of me to make me a better applicant for cards in 3 years.

I've heard from my advisors at my school to aim for the "best" residency program to match into cardiology, but I have no idea what sort of standard to base my decision on. I thought people in the field may know some secret that Im not aware of.

To preface all of this, I really enjoyed my interviews at most all of my programs, and I would be more than happy to be at any of the top 6 programs on my list. That being said, I would like to know which program would be the best for my future aspirations.

Here are the programs I am considering as a potential #1 on my ROL (in no particular order): UC Denver, UAB, UVA, Cleveland Clinic, Dartmouth

Other programs I've interviewed at (and was impressed!) but probably in the middle of my ROL are: Iowa, Minnesota, Indiana, Maryland, Harbor, MUSC

Any input would be much appreciated!

My $0.02:

Colorado: have a friend who did residency there recently and loved it. Recent Cards matches good.

UAB: strong institution, residency connects you to those resources

UVA: strong all around

Cleveland: fellows run that show. If autonomy is important to you, don't go

Dartmouth: lovely place, not a "big name" in IM (or Cards)

Maryland: everything you'd need to match Cards

Indy: hard work, big names, no problem matching Cards. Not a nurturing place compared to some others

Harbor: recently revamped, doesn't seem like too many Cards matches in recent hx

Minnesota: weird program. Former program director was laid back and pro-resident. New director is more intense. Politics at that institution are weird: the medical college and the hospital system are not connected. This makes for some frustrating inability to advocate for changes that might benefit housestaff. Cards fellowship isn't great unless pure clinical is goal

Iowa: don't go here. You can get to Cards, but this program is not all it seems on the interview day and a shell of its former strength.

mUSC: good friend did med school there. i don't have more insight.

I'd probably rank them this way (given your stated priority):

1. UVA
2. Cleveland (if you felt at home)
3. UAB
4. Colorado
5. Maryland
6. Indy
7. Harbor vs Dartmouth
8. Dartmouth vs Harbor

This is where things break down. Iowa is a bigger name than Minnesota (for now) and does have a coordinated healthcare enterprise, but the IM residency is really struggling in my view. I would suggest not going to Iowa.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

Hey guys, thought I'd ask the group for help in ranking my list

Im mostly interested in Cards fellowship, but am looking for the following, first and foremost
1. Strong clinical training
2. Research opportunities
3. *Strong reputation/name that will carry me into whatever fellowship I choose to pursue (most likely cards)

I know that some people advise against following names/ranking, but I am 100% okay with enduring 3 years of "hardship" at a program that is reputable, but is notorious for rigorous training.

I have no predisposition to location/city. COL is somewhat important but I think most of the cities I have an interview at aren't at the level of SF or NY by any means.

I've divided the list into 4 tiers. Here goes:

1. Colorado/UAB/CCF
2. Dartmouth/UVA
3. Iowa/Minnesota/Indiana
4. Maryland/Harbor/MUSC

Very unlikely that programs will move from one tier to another... but I am torn between ranking within the tiers.

Ask me any clarifying questions. Thanks for the help in advance guys!

I would think UVA is as strong as Colorado and in the neighborhood of UAB
I would swap Maryland and Minnesota. Minnesota has a bunch of institutional challenges which are probably insurmountable. Filters down to housestaff.

Iowa will get you to fellowship, but the training isn't rigorous or strong. It's riddled with busy work and a program that fails to support its residents. It looks shiny and friendly on interview day (they work hard for that), but it's mired in malaise and a culture of non-improvement in terms of focus on strong clinical training. IM residency allows itself to be bullied by the other departments. Leadership initiating policies to further reduce graduated responsibility on inpatient services.

Good place for Cards fellowship is Iowa, but go somewhere else for residency.

 

[Barbecue]

I would think UVA is as strong as Colorado and in the neighborhood of UAB
I would swap Maryland and Minnesota. Minnesota has a bunch of institutional challenges which are probably insurmountable. Filters down to housestaff.

Iowa will get you to fellowship, but the training isn't rigorous or strong. It's riddled with busy work and a program that fails to support its residents. It looks shiny and friendly on interview day (they work hard for that), but it's mired in malaise and a culture of non-improvement in terms of focus on strong clinical training. IM residency allows itself to be bullied by the other departments. Leadership initiating policies to further reduce graduated responsibility on inpatient services.

Good place for Cards fellowship is Iowa, but go somewhere else for residency.

Damn dude what's with the six posts in a row bashing Iowa? We get it, you're ranking them #1 and worried you won't match there. But this is just distasteful.

 

[niblet]

Yeah this goes straight to the gunner hall of fame.

 

[medhead1990]

Throwing my list in the ring for any helpful insight. I am interested in either cards or pulm/cc, with plans to move to California for fellowship and go into PP in the southwest. Maybe switch to academia later down the line which I know is tough to do. (wife is from California). I go back and forth often for my #1 and #2:

1. UCSD
2. Emory
3. UC Davis
4. Cedars
5. U Miami
6. MUSC
7. UCLA OV
8. Minnesota (loved it here and would move it up, but wife will never do -13 deg F cold)
9. Montefiore
10. Tulane
11. Hofstra
12. Rush (not a good fit)
13. UCLA Harbor (not a good fit)

If anyone has any legit insight into the strength of Emory's Pulm/CC training/match and how likely I can go to the west coast from there, that'd be a big help. So far, it seems like they match few of their residents into pulm/cc, and most either stay in house or on the east coast.

I would love to hear why you ranked MUSC over Tulane. As well as your general opinions between the two, they are both in my list and I'm finding putting one over the other pretty tough to do.

 

[Redpancreas]

5 years ago Iowa was good borderline great and underappreciated (so didn't draw from blue blood schools). Now it's really not great. However, their H/O fellowship does keep their own.

Iowa will get you to fellowship, but the training isn't rigorous or strong. It's riddled with busy work and a program that fails to support its residents. It looks shiny and friendly on interview day (they work hard for that), but it's mired in malaise and a culture of non-improvement in terms of focus on strong clinical training. IM residency allows itself to be bullied by the other departments. Leadership initiating policies to further reduce graduated responsibility on inpatient services.

Iowa: don't go here. You can get to Cards, but this program is not all it seems on the interview day and a shell of its former self. Iowa is a bigger name than Minnesota (for now) and does have a coordinated healthcare enterprise, but the IM residency is really struggling in my view. I would suggest not going to Iowa.

Do you think we’re all this stupid? You’ve literally paraphrased all of what the is available out there about Iowa as well as the other programs to make your post seem legitimate. I would know because I’ve looked all over for stuff about it. We all know GutOnc’s love for Wisconsin, the vibe everyone has about Dartmouth and Indiana is clear, and the tag line of what you heard at Cleveland Clinic (mentorship) and what you heard about Iowa on interview day (low key place with smart people all over) and you’ve mentioned all that to seem legitimate and then decided to take a sledgehammer to Iowa because you want to go there so bad. Do you have any shame?

 

[Nidhoggr_]

Do you think we’re all this stupid? You’ve literally paraphrased all of what the is available out there about Iowa as well as the other programs to make your post seem legitimate. I would know because I’ve looked all over for stuff about it. We all know GutOnc’s love for Wisconsin, the vibe everyone has about Dartmouth and Indiana is clear, and the tag line of what you heard at Cleveland Clinic (mentorship) and what you heard about Iowa on interview day (low key place with smart people all over) and you’ve mentioned all that to seem legitimate and then decided to take a sledgehammer to Iowa because you want to go there so bad. Do you have any shame? You’re basically trying to be GutOnc (which you’ll never be) and then pretending you’re a fellow (which is a TOS violation btw) and acting like you know something at the expense of the entire program at Iowa to marginally benefit yourself. I’ll be honest and say I’m ranking Iowa highly and anyone else out there should feel proud to do so and disregard vermin like this. Also even though I didn’t go to Minnesota, what you’re doing to them is stupid too. Guessing they’re your #2...

One of my best mentors told me that much of what you learn in residency you will learn from your co-residents during the long hours you spend together on the wards. I always feel I should effusively praise the places I want to train in the hope of attracting excellent co-residents to learn from. I don't really understand the mentality of trying to trash one's own program, doesn't this just hurt you in the long run?

 

[RenalPolemicist]

Didn't think anyone was stupid but didn't suspect you/others would be so hypervigilant/suspicious. It's been a few years since I did residency match, so I failed to consider that you'd think I was trying to box you out. I guess it does fit (and would qualify me as vermin, I suppose). The alternative is that I might be familiar with the program and know that it's headed the wrong way and no longer offers the same quality of training as a place like Wisconsin (as an example). I don't know that there's any way you could know that I was simply offering a perspective in hopes of saving someone aggravation, but I guess I didn't expect such a cocksure assessment and reaction.

I am sorry to insult your/anyone's sense of fair play (though I assure you that you've misjudged my motives). Feel free to (proudly) rank Iowa wherever you wish.

I guess I hope that you don't react to all situations the way it seems you've reacted to what you perceive as my malfeasance. Even if you had correctly assessed the situation (by serendipity), the tenor of your reaction seems unnecessary. Residency is full of times where it seems people are treating you poorly, and presuming malevolence (where there's none, it turns out) could make things rougher than baseline. That's none of my business, however.

Again, to anyone who felt I was trying to improve my own rank list, let me say two things: 1) I'm sorry to have been confusing and unintentionally misleading and 2) I am not applying for residency. This was simply earnest candor. Should you doubt my veracity, I can't fault you. It's the internet, after all.

Good luck on Match Day!

 

[Redpancreas]

Didn't think anyone was stupid but didn't suspect you/others would be so hypervigilant/suspicious. It's been a few years since I did residency match, so I failed to consider that you'd think I was trying to box you out. I guess it does fit (and would qualify me as vermin, I suppose). The alternative is that I might be familiar with the program and know that it's headed the wrong way and no longer offers the same quality of training as a place like Wisconsin (as an example). I don't know that there's any way you could know that I was simply offering a perspective in hopes of saving someone aggravation, but I guess I didn't expect such a cocksure assessment and reaction.

I am sorry to insult your/anyone's sense of fair play (though I assure you that you've misjudged my motives). Feel free to (proudly) rank Iowa wherever you wish.

I guess I hope that you don't react to all situations the way it seems you've reacted to what you perceive as my malfeasance. Even if you had correctly assessed the situation (by serendipity), the tenor of your reaction seems unnecessary. Residency is full of times where it seems people are treating you poorly, and presuming malevolence (where there's none, it turns out) could make things rougher than baseline. That's none of my business, however.

Again, to anyone who felt I was trying to improve my own rank list, let me say two things: 1) I'm sorry to have been confusing and unintentionally misleading and 2) I am not applying for residency. This was simply earnest candor. Should you doubt my veracity, I can't fault you. It's the internet, after all.

Good luck on Match Day!

How do you know other programs are great if you trained at Iowa? Seems like you have basically recited interview day stuff we all heard these past few months. Before mods step in, i do apologize for the name calling and realize that’s wrong.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

One of my best mentors told me that much of what you learn in residency you will learn from your co-residents during the long hours you spend together on the wards. I always feel I should effusively praise the places I want to train in the hope of attracting excellent co-residents to learn from. I don't really understand the mentality of trying to trash one's own program, doesn't this just hurt you in the long run?

I'll assume the question is not only rhetorical.

1. I'm not sure I'd agree that most of what you learn in medicine residency you learn from co-residents. Looking back, I sat next to my co-residents as we hammered out notes, and we did discuss some cases/findings/oddities, but knowledge acquisition (and probably encoding) is probably divided differently now. Rarer to round as a team and discuss all the curious or unexpected findings at the bedside/as a whole group (though it does happen some). Rarer still to trundle off together to radiology or pathology as our presence is required at interdisciplinary rounds, a conference, or some other activity.

2. I would just respond to your second statement by saying the following:

In my opinion...
a. I do like praise better than criticism. Effusive praise should be warranted, though, and the motive shouldn't be self-serving.
b. It then would stand to reason that if I'm sounding an alarm about a program, perhaps it's intended with a genuine spirit, as otherwise my vermin-like behavior would prove even more self-injurious.


Alternatively, I'm really that much of a *****. Could be that, I suppose. That gamble is up to you. I would hesitate to be so certain.

Again, I apologize if your sense of fair play was insulted.

 

[RenalPolemicist]

How do you know other programs are great if you trained at Iowa? Seems like you have basically recited interview day stuff we all heard these past few months. Before mods step in, i do apologize for the name calling and realize that’s wrong.

1. I don't believe I told you at which institutions I've trained or spent time. Again, that's either because I'm a troll (I love that word!) or because I'm a little circumspect. I don't know what you're hearing at interviews; so perhaps my own cognitive bias is creeping in and conflating what I've heard during training with what they were saying even a few years ago when I was on the interview trail. But since you specifically called me out on my comments regarding Minnesota ("Who Hates Iowa?"), I'm sure you know who the new Dean/VP for Med Affairs is at Iowa (since you're so impressed by the place). It stands to reason someone familiar with the UI Healthcare Enterprise would know a thing or two about the new guy's old haunts, no?

Again, the alternative is that I just Googled some stuff, checked my (non-existent) interview notes, and concocted this scheme out of whole cloth. I might really be that much of a stooge. You'll have to decide if anything I say is worth listening to. When you do, though, maybe exercise a little more reasoning and a little less conclusion-leaping though, because it's your residency training (not mine). Plus, we are internists, right? Measure twice; cut once sort of stuff?

2. I couldn't care less what names you call me or think of calling me. T

he mods don't need to be involved. ​

Your reaction doesn't offend me in the sense that I know that I'm not trying to fool you into accidentally not picking Iowa. My hands are clean. I just hope, for your own stress level, that when you get the 48th nonsense-riddled page of the night (I got 79 my first night of residency which was a night float shift), you take a deep breath and make sure you know what you're saying before you broadly pronounce that someone's trying to screw you. They might be trying to help after all.

I sincerely wish you good luck in the Match.

 

[wiloghby]

Iowa will get you to fellowship, but the training isn't rigorous or strong. It's riddled with busy work and a program that fails to support its residents. It looks shiny and friendly on interview day (they work hard for that), but it's mired in malaise and a culture of non-improvement in terms of focus on strong clinical training. IM residency allows itself to be bullied by the other departments. Leadership initiating policies to further reduce graduated responsibility on inpatient services.

Good place for Cards fellowship is Iowa, but go somewhere else for residency.

oh yeah btw I heard UCSF and Stanford are like shells of their former greatness now. Also did you hear California is basically on fire all the time and that Harry Hollander is leaving cuz his house burned down? Best to avoid. The only academic program in California that is still any good is UC Davis.

 

[aafisahar]

1. UVA
2. Cleveland (if you felt at home)
3. UAB
4. Colorado
5. Maryland
6. Indy
7. Harbor vs Dartmouth
8. Dartmouth vs Harbor

I think for Cards, you would rank

1. Colorado vs UVA vs UAB (all interchangeable IMO)
2. Maryland
3. Indy
4. Cleveland
5. Harbor (higher if you want Cali)
6. Darmouth

Top 5 programs on that list don't close any doors except at the tippiest of top places and have plenty of research/mentors to match you into cards. The other programs are a bit more limited, either in training or location.

 

[IrregularBehavior]

Help ranking please. No location preference. Interested in primary care, but wouldn't want to close any doors for fellowship. My ROL for now:

1. Maryland
2. UIC
3. Wake Forest
4. Ohio State
5. UT Houston
6. Miami
7. Rush/Cook County primary care
..

 

[shockwavelithotripsy]

any thoughts on UIC versus VCU? what about OHSU versus Montefiore? Interested in cardiology and I also value the resident quality of life...

 

[Ophthoseidon]

oh yeah btw I heard UCSF and Stanford are like shells of their former greatness now. Also did you hear California is basically on fire all the time and that Harry Hollander is leaving cuz his house burned down? Best to avoid. The only academic program in California that is still any good is UC Davis.

Oh **** I didn't know this! Dropping Stanford and UCSF to 6 and 7 respectively. Thanks random internet stranger!

 

[Pumix]

Working on the middle of my list and would like some input in comparing these programs (and rationale for one over another). Strength of program with a collegial/collaborative environment >> location. Career goals: fellowship in cards or hospitalist at an academic medical center, so research opportunities are important.

U Wisconsin Madison vs. U Minnesota
Maryland vs. VCU
Tufts vs. Brown

Thank you.

 

[gutonc]

Working on the middle of my list and would like some input in comparing these programs (and rationale for one over another). Strength of program with a collegial/collaborative environment >> location. Career goals: fellowship in cards or hospitalist at an academic medical center, so research opportunities are important.

U Wisconsin Madison vs. U Minnesota
Maryland vs. VCU
Tufts vs. Brown

Thank you.

I'd personally put them:
UWM
UMinn
UMD
VCU
Flip a coin for Brown/Tufts

But then I don't care about cardiology. And other orders would be completely reasonable.