Use all the free resources available to you from SDN: articles, guides, expert advising, forums discussions, and school research.
Swap UNC (target) and Pitt (reach). UVM is not a safety more a target. Reaches should be the T15-T20 schools and your targets midtier and upper midtier/T30
I would say UPMC is probably a reach unless that is the home institution. Had similar stats with gold humanism and never got an interview. I think they like top/AOA on the app since that was the trend I saw from my school.
Given your cv and background I’d only recommend applying to;
Def agree but if hes looking for less hardcore/workhorse programs id avoid NYU Columbia and Sinai. Cornell i heard isnt as bad as the former programs but as you stated all would be reaches
For the most part its hard to say but general consensus is that the ones on the recent reddit spreadsheets for IM that are locked are pretty spot on for T20-T30. Anything after that differentiating between upper mid tier and midtier is splitting hairs and based in opinions and less clear. Differences between mid tier and low tier is a little less dicey but still anecdotal/subjective.
Agreed. The places they listed in as target programs imo are as good at the reach. Obviously going to MGH or Brigham will be different with the rep of name but other than about 5-6 programs, the rest of the are as good training and will keep all doors open.
Your app is pretty boss only thing possibly limiting some of the T10s for u is research is a little weak. If you get AOA youll have a good shot at all of those places. Only true reaches for you are Penn Columbia Duke and WashU but theyre reaches for most people
You have a solid shot at Mayo Pitt and Northwestern possibly could move those to targets. Add BU Tufts Brown Dartmouth UVA Georgetown and UNC to targets
You've targeted a pretty narrow swath of the country (Penn and Pitt being the only not solidly midwest programs on your list), which is fine if you want to stay there, because you'll definitely match somewhere on that list. But why not open your horizons and visit some other parts of the country and see what they have to offer? I recognize that pando-times are weird/expensive for travel, and the interview process still isn't back to normal, but my favorite part of the process when I did it, was being able to see parts of the country I'd never been to and imagine what it would be like to live there for 3+ years.
Thanks Gutonc, I'm open to that suggestion. Do you think you could comment on what other programs I should aim/reach for? Thanks again.
Thanks Deecee, will do!
The sky's the limit. Applying is cheap (relative to the rest of the process, not to mention what you've already spent to get here)...spend a few hundred on a couple of dozen apps and see what happens.
Youll get alot of interviews and wouldnt be surprised if you got some love from Penn UMich WashU or UChicago. You can also add Vandy Emory Baylor (BCM) and Yale i think youll score an interview or two from these places
If its a SubI yes if not no one really cares just dont fail lol
You start first.
Let us know where youre thinking. Few reaches, targets and safeties and can get a better idea of where you should apply
Here are the programs I am interested in/know of. If I leave out any good ones let me know so I can look into them
I would say Penn (HUP), Temple, Rutgers (RWJ), NYU main, Cleveland Clinic main, monte main, Jeff (Sidney Kimmel) are definitely without question reaches with NYU main and Penn (HUP) being essentially donations-DOs with perfect apps (all honors 250-260+ and multiple pubs) dont get interviews there. Rochester might be a reach. The rest are targets. How are your clinical grades? how many honors/HP/pass?
My school is A/B/Cs and they don't really tell us about what honors is so I dnt rly know..
They “require” 220+ that doesnt mean its competitive. Also from what I recall they dont take a lot of DOs and many of the residents are from strong USMD programs. You also have to factor in that youre a DO with these places. Monte is a strong upper midtier academic program-if a DO is matching there they likely have a ton of research and/or a very very strong application. Im not being mean im just trying to help you understand how competitive IM is once you get to the mid tier programs and higher as a DO. DOs with basically perfect apps typically cap out at the upper midtier to T30 range because they are DOs. Sure there are a select few that have matched T20 but its exceedingly rare. I think you can match academic but i would say your ceiling is most likely lower midtier academic programs. NYU is out of the question they are a T20 academic program and have never taken a DO. If they interview a DO its going to be the 250+ all honors top 5% of the class multiple pubs kid. Mt Sinai (Icahn) like THE Mt Sinai is also out of the question-they are T20 academic IM program and have never taken a DO. They are plenty of academic programs youd be competitive for but these elite names are tough to break into even for DOs with perfect applications. Many of the programs youd be competitive for will set you up fine for any fellowship so I wouldnt worry about that. You also have research which will help you for sure
No worries I'm not saying ur being mean I just dont know much about the process so I'm asking questions.
Sorry I just didnt want to come off as harsh lol thats why i said I didnt want my post to come off as mean. I know its a very complex process and not your fault bc DO programs dont give you any guidance in this department unfortunately. You are doing a great thing by reaching out for help to gauge your competitiveness to make a good list! The other Sinai and NYU sites may be in your wheelhouse but I dont know a lot about them actually. Some may have a lot of IMGs but I am not sure. To reiterate you will definitely have somw great fellowship opportunities wherever you end up and I do think you have the bones to match academic just a matter of where. If you cast a wide net and add some community programs like you have on your list you should be good
Dude 3 patents and 37 pubs? lmao absolute savage. Coming from a T15 med school any of the T20 places are in your wheelhouse. You can apply wherever you want realistically lol MGH BWH JHH and UCSF are difficult for anyone so no guarantees there but Cornell NYU Sinai Yale BIDMC are for sure targets. Penn and Columbia probs target-ish/reach. If you get 260+ Step 2 youll be ballin
Given the credential and stats, satellite programs of these major institutions make more sense like Deecee2DO had stated. Generally these institutions are more IMG- and DO-friendly than so-called "high-tier programs". I would also consider NYU Winthrop (now NYU Long Island?), Northwell Long Island Jewish Forest Hills, and Montefiore Wakefield. Winthrop has now their own NYU-brand med school and a research institute. Wakefield is more of a community hospital, recently acquired by Einstein COM. Similar story to LIJ FH - one of the Northwell's community hospitals. NJMS (Rutgers Newark) also makes sense. RWJMS (Rutgers New Brunswick - flagship Rutgers) is a reach. Don't apply for flagship Northwell (NS-LIJ) as they don't hire DOs for IM residency, which is an uncommon thing for a mid-tier program.
Thanks again for your response. Would you say the other university programs I mentioned are reasonable to expect interviews and rank at? (The SUNY, UBuffalo, Stony, ect)
Appreciate that but my advisors said that my grades aren't great and so I likely won't have a chance at top 20.
So are you going to not apply? Because that's silly.
100% not true lol you certainly have a shot at T20. Being at a T15 school with all of that research and patents will get u in the door
Sorry - meant that that's just what my advisor said. I most certainly will be applying to all of those programs to shoot my shot! Appreciate the insight.
Chuck apps to all 3 of those you may get interviews there
Apart from trying to do better on STEP 2 (likely after ERAS submission, unfortunately), any suggestions to help optimize my app for some of these top programs? Not sure what I can feasibly do anyways..
You should apply everywhere clearly very competitive applicant. You could match T5 but who knows. Youll likely match T20. I would just apply to the top 40-50 programs and see where you land. Id say there are no limits to where you can apply
Thank you both for the re-assurance. Any thoughts on the AOA part? I feel like I've read on here and Reddit numerous posts that imply that without AOA competitive top 20 programs won't consider you if you are from a mid-tier program (just wondering this as I am in the process of making my school list). Also, any advice on explaining my research given its specificity to a niche surgical subspecialty? My transcript will reflect that I've only done IM rotations and am not a secret "dual applier" or anything, but I'm just concerned programs will look at it and doubt my commitment to the field.
I mean having AOA is a big component but you have several things in your favor-being a USMD, high scores, mostly honors and higher than avg # of what seem to be quality pubs. Yes being from a T10 med school and having AOA helps a lot and can get those with avg to slghtly above avg board scores into the ivory tower programs but you have mostly everything other than AOA. FWIW I was a USDO applicant who received interviews from T20 programs last cycle so if I can then why cant you coming from a USMD with what appears to be a very strong app
Sorry to bump this but wanted to get thoughts on chances with Duke in particular. Of course it’s a reach but I haven’t really gotten a straight answer from my advisor. I guess the question is how do I approach showing interest when app season starts without being obnoxious? Is it appropriate to see if my school has any connections for them to call and get an interview? If at the end of the day it’s a crapshoot then I’m totally cool with that but I don’t want to not use resources/connections if it’s appropriate and could be useful.
Use your resources always. Send an app and see if you get an invite it cant hurt. You have a shot based on med school pedigree and strong Step 2 but its still a reach. These are my thoughts others may disagree
