Official Eternal IM WAMC Thread

[expicept]

I would consider Colorado and Baylor to be in your target category. Additionally, I would move UTSW to the reach category (similar competitiveness to the rest of your reaches FWIW). If you're looking for additional programs that provide good cards exposure/mentorship, consider including WashU, YNHH, Pitt, IU, and Minnesota. I would wager you'll get interviews at many programs on your list.

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[Deecee2DO]

Reposting with my step 2 score added

USMD Top 15
Step 1: 233
Step 2: 256
Clinical grades: 2 H (H in Medicine), rest HP.
Research: 2 2nd author pubs, 1 first author case report, 4 presentations (1 national conference), another paper in the works
Recs: will have 3 strong letters
ECs: Multiple leadership positions, volunteer experiences

This is the list I have so far but certainly open to other program rec's. Career goal is Cards fellowship.

Reach:
Duke
Mayo Clinic
UMich
Vanderbilt
Baylor
U of Colorado

Target:
UNC
UTSW
UAB
UVA
Emory
Wake Forest
Tulane
U of Utah
Ohio State
UMiami
Case Western
Cleveland Clinic

Safety:
MUSC
Mayo Jax
UF
LSU
Mayo AZ

AOA or no? T15 USMD with 250+ Step 2 and multiple pubs? Id say you can move Vandy, Mayo, Baylor, Yale, Colorado to targets and add Brown Georgetown BU Tufts UCLA USC and Dartmouth. Throw apps to Duke HUP Columbia BWH MGH JHU UCSF but they should be reaches

 

[Deecee2DO]

I would consider Colorado and Baylor to be in your target category. Additionally, I would move UTSW to the reach category (similar competitiveness to the rest of your reaches FWIW). If you're looking for additional programs that provide good cards exposure/mentorship, consider including WashU, YNHH, Pitt, IU, and Minnesota. I would wager you'll get interviews at many programs on your list.

I agree. I still think UTSW would be within reach for him especially if WashU is

 

[Future_HeartMD]

AOA or no? T15 USMD with 250+ Step 2 and multiple pubs? Id say you can move Vandy, Mayo, UMich, Stanford, Baylor, Yale, Colorado to targets and add Brown Georgetown BU Tufts UCLA USC and Dartmouth. Duke HUP Columbia BWH MGH JHU UCSF should be your reaches

Was not picked for AOA after 3rd year. Not sure what my chances are for 4th year AOA. FWIW those pubs are in low impact journals but better than nothing for sure. Also who is HUP?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Was not picked for AOA after 3rd year. Not sure what my chances are for 4th year AOA. FWIW those pubs are in low impact journals but better than nothing for sure. Also who is HUP?

Youre at a T15 USMD school youll get plentyyyy of namebrand/prestigious interviews lol AOA is icing. Going to a T15 schools carries hella weight especially in IM

 

[expicept]

I agree. I still think UTSW would be within reach for him especially if WashU is

I agree. Every program on that list is within reach and very reasonable. If anything you could drop some of the safeties, as I doubt you'll fall that far down your ROL.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Was not picked for AOA after 3rd year. Not sure what my chances are for 4th year AOA. FWIW those pubs are in low impact journals but better than nothing for sure. Also who is HUP?

HUP (Hospital of University of Pennsylvania) is UPenn

 

[Deecee2DO]

I agree. Every program on that list is within reach and very reasonable. If anything you could drop some of the safeties, as I doubt you'll fall that far down your ROL.

I think WashU is possible for him but still a reach its a T10 program so they get plenty of 260+ AOA apps regardless of whether hes at a T15 school or not. Dont get me wrong though the T15 name will carry him far

 

[junky372]

Hi all, I’d love your feedback on my stats and preliminary school list, as well as any other program recommendations. I have a preference for the East Coast and more urban areas due to personal reasons, which I think is reflected in the school list.

USMD, top 30-40ish

Step 1: 24x
Step 2: 24x
Clerkship grades: 2 H, rest HP (including IM)
Research: 1 first author pub, a couple others in the works (but likely won’t be ready before ERAS is in) a handful of middle author pubs, a couple institutional research awards, a few abstract/oral/poster presentations at conferences
AOA/Gold Humanism: Probably not/no
ECs: Teaching/mentoring, volunteer/community service work
Red flags: No

Career goals: Interest in cardiology, pulm/cc, maybe interested in academics/medical education


Reach:
Mayo (Rochester)
BIDMC
Yale
Duke
UMich
UNC

Target (includes home program):
Dartmouth
Tufts
Boston Medical Center
Brown
UPitt Medical Center
URochester
UMaryland
Medstar/Georgetown University
Wake Forest

Safety:
UVM
Maine Medical Center
UMass
Cambridge Health Alliance
UConn
George Washington

 

[obiwan]

Hi all, I’d love your feedback on my stats and preliminary school list, as well as any other program recommendations. I have a preference for the East Coast and more urban areas due to personal reasons, which I think is reflected in the school list.

With that profile, I would anticipate that you shouldn't drop below your target list unless you somehow completely offend every single person who interviews you. I think its worthwhile to at least add on places like UPenn to your reach and maybe places like Temple and UVA to your targets. I guess you aren't looking at NYC programs ......

 

[Deecee2DO]

Hi all, I’d love your feedback on my stats and preliminary school list, as well as any other program recommendations. I have a preference for the East Coast and more urban areas due to personal reasons, which I think is reflected in the school list.

USMD, top 30-40ish

Step 1: 24x
Step 2: 24x
Clerkship grades: 2 H, rest HP (including IM)
Research: 1 first author pub, a couple others in the works (but likely won’t be ready before ERAS is in) a handful of middle author pubs, a couple institutional research awards, a few abstract/oral/poster presentations at conferences
AOA/Gold Humanism: Probably not/no
ECs: Teaching/mentoring, volunteer/community service work
Red flags: No

Career goals: Interest in cardiology, pulm/cc, maybe interested in academics/medical education


Reach:
Mayo (Rochester)
BIDMC
Yale
Duke
UMich
UNC

Target (includes home program):
Dartmouth
Tufts
Boston Medical Center
Brown
UPitt Medical Center
URochester
UMaryland
Medstar/Georgetown University
Wake Forest

Safety:
UVM
Maine Medical Center
UMass
Cambridge Health Alliance
UConn
George Washington

Swap UNC (target) and Pitt (reach). UVM is not a safety more a target. Reaches should be the T15-T20 schools and your targets midtier and upper midtier/T30

 

[nik1990s]

Hi all, I’d love your feedback on my stats and preliminary school list, as well as any other program recommendations. I have a preference for the East Coast and more urban areas due to personal reasons, which I think is reflected in the school list.

USMD, top 30-40ish

Step 1: 24x
Step 2: 24x
Clerkship grades: 2 H, rest HP (including IM)
Research: 1 first author pub, a couple others in the works (but likely won’t be ready before ERAS is in) a handful of middle author pubs, a couple institutional research awards, a few abstract/oral/poster presentations at conferences
AOA/Gold Humanism: Probably not/no
ECs: Teaching/mentoring, volunteer/community service work
Red flags: No

Career goals: Interest in cardiology, pulm/cc, maybe interested in academics/medical education


Reach:
Mayo (Rochester)
BIDMC
Yale
Duke
UMich
UNC

Target (includes home program):
Dartmouth
Tufts
Boston Medical Center
Brown
UPitt Medical Center
URochester
UMaryland
Medstar/Georgetown University
Wake Forest

Safety:
UVM
Maine Medical Center
UMass
Cambridge Health Alliance
UConn
George Washington

I would say UPMC is probably a reach unless that is the home institution. Had similar stats with gold humanism and never got an interview. I think they like top/AOA on the app since that was the trend I saw from my school.

I would add some top notch programs to the list closer to east coast:
VCU, UVA, Jefferson and I would add Emory to your reach list (loved that place as well)

 

[junky372]

With that profile, I would anticipate that you shouldn't drop below your target list unless you somehow completely offend every single person who interviews you. I think its worthwhile to at least add on places like UPenn to your reach and maybe places like Temple and UVA to your targets. I guess you aren't looking at NYC programs ......

Thanks for the tip and your feedback, I'll do some looking to see if Temple/UVA would be good fits for my goals.

I'm a bit hesitant about NYC programs because of their reputation for being especially difficult training environments, something that a few of my advisors at my school hint at as well. I'm not afraid of hard work and the training at my home institution certainly isn't a cakewalk, but department/hospital as a whole is a pretty good work environment and the ancillary/nursing staff are solid.

Any recommends for NYC programs which are better in terms of work hours/training environment/nursing support?

 

[junky372]

Swap UNC (target) and Pitt (reach). UVM is not a safety more a target. Reaches should be the T15-T20 schools and your targets midtier and upper midtier/T30

Appreciate the tips - do you have any recommendations on places to look to get a clearer sense of the "tiers"? I know US News is irrelevant for this, doximity is mixed, and that there's a tier list on old reddit spreadsheets, but nothing approaching a definitive list for things like this.

 

[junky372]

I would say UPMC is probably a reach unless that is the home institution. Had similar stats with gold humanism and never got an interview. I think they like top/AOA on the app since that was the trend I saw from my school.

I would add some top notch programs to the list closer to east coast:
VCU, UVA, Jefferson and I would add Emory to your reach list (loved that place as well)

Appreciate the tip about UPMC, I'll temper my expectations there.

I was on the fence about Emory - it's got a great reputation and the opportunities coming from there are excellent, but not many folks from my school end up going there, likely due to geography. What were the main things that stood out to you?

 

[whoknows2012]

Thanks for the tip and your feedback, I'll do some looking to see if Temple/UVA would be good fits for my goals.

I'm a bit hesitant about NYC programs because of their reputation for being especially difficult training environments, something that a few of my advisors at my school hint at as well. I'm not afraid of hard work and the training at my home institution certainly isn't a cakewalk, but department/hospital as a whole is a pretty good work environment and the ancillary/nursing staff are solid.

Any recommends for NYC programs which are better in terms of work hours/training environment/nursing support?

Given your cv and background I’d only recommend applying to;

Cornell, NYU, Sinai, all reaches (could add Columbia but that’s a super reach)

Montefiore/Einstein (target)

Northwell, stonybrook RWJ (which would be more along the lines of safeties) are other nyc “metro” area programs that are less rigorous and still offer good training and fellowship opportunities if interested in being in a suburban practice location

 

[Deecee2DO]

Given your cv and background I’d only recommend applying to;

Cornell, NYU, Sinai, all reaches (could add Columbia but that’s a super reach)

Montefiore/Einstein (target)

Northwell, stonybrook RWJ (which would be more along the lines of safeties) are other nyc “metro” area programs that are less rigorous and still offer good training and fellowship opportunities if interested in being in a suburban practice location

Def agree but if hes looking for less hardcore/workhorse programs id avoid NYU Columbia and Sinai. Cornell i heard isnt as bad as the former programs but as you stated all would be reaches

 

[Deecee2DO]

Appreciate the tips - do you have any recommendations on places to look to get a clearer sense of the "tiers"? I know US News is irrelevant for this, doximity is mixed, and that there's a tier list on old reddit spreadsheets, but nothing approaching a definitive list for things like this.

For the most part its hard to say but general consensus is that the ones on the recent reddit spreadsheets for IM that are locked are pretty spot on for T20-T30. Anything after that differentiating between upper mid tier and midtier is splitting hairs and based in opinions and less clear. Differences between mid tier and low tier is a little less dicey but still anecdotal/subjective.

It is for the most part pretty unanimous across most rankings that the following programs are the T20. Id personally give honorable mention to UAB Emory and Baylor but wouldnt say unanimously

MGH
BWH
JHU
UCSF
UPenn (HUP)
Columbia
Duke
WashU
UTSW
Stanford
BIDMC
Cornell
NYU
Sinai
Vanderbilt
UMich
Northwestern
UWash
Yale
Mayo-Rochester

 

[obiwan]

Appreciate the tips - do you have any recommendations on places to look to get a clearer sense of the "tiers"? I know US News is irrelevant for this, doximity is mixed, and that there's a tier list on old reddit spreadsheets, but nothing approaching a definitive list for things like this.

Look no further than SDN where we love to debate ad nauseum on what programs constitute T10 or T25 or T50 etc etc. In reality, the boundaries are blurred and the perceived differences in reputation and prestige are over-emphasized. You will get solid training at pretty much all of the programs that you have mentioned and others have recommended. To me, it really comes down to what environment do you want to train in and succeeding in. Would you rather train at a big time residency program with 150+ residents like a Michigan or Emory (and even then are you OK spending at least the next 3 years of your life in a smaller college town like Charlottesville or a major metro area with higher COL) vs a more intimate program like Tufts or Dartmouth

 

[junky372]

Look no further than SDN where we love to debate ad nauseum on what programs constitute T10 or T25 or T50 etc etc. In reality, the boundaries are blurred and the perceived differences in reputation and prestige are over-emphasized. You will get solid training at pretty much all of the programs that you have mentioned and others have recommended. To me, it really comes down to what environment do you want to train in and succeeding in. Would you rather train at a big time residency program with 150+ residents like a Michigan or Emory (and even then are you OK spending at least the next 3 years of your life in a smaller college town like Charlottesville or a major metro area with higher COL) vs a more intimate program like Tufts or Dartmouth

Given your cv and background I’d only recommend applying to;

Cornell, NYU, Sinai, all reaches (could add Columbia but that’s a super reach)

Montefiore/Einstein (target)

Northwell, stonybrook RWJ (which would be more along the lines of safeties) are other nyc “metro” area programs that are less rigorous and still offer good training and fellowship opportunities if interested in being in a suburban practice location

For the most part its hard to say but general consensus is that the ones on the recent reddit spreadsheets for IM that are locked are pretty spot on for T20-T30. Anything after that differentiating between upper mid tier and midtier is splitting hairs and based in opinions and less clear. Differences between mid tier and low tier is a little less dicey but still anecdotal/subjective.

It is for the most part pretty unanimous across most rankings that the following programs are the T20. Id personally give honorable mention to UAB Emory and Baylor but wouldnt say unanimously

MGH
BWH
JHU
UCSF
UPenn (HUP)
Columbia
Duke
WashU
UTSW
Stanford
BIDMC
Cornell
NYU
Sinai
Vanderbilt
UMich
Northwestern
UWash
Yale
Mayo-Rochester

Thank you all for your advice! It looks like I've got some work to do in terms of looking at programs, but I'm sure to be back with questions about other parts of the country.

 

[nik1990s]

Look no further than SDN where we love to debate ad nauseum on what programs constitute T10 or T25 or T50 etc etc. In reality, the boundaries are blurred and the perceived differences in reputation and prestige are over-emphasized. You will get solid training at pretty much all of the programs that you have mentioned and others have recommended. To me, it really comes down to what environment do you want to train in and succeeding in. Would you rather train at a big time residency program with 150+ residents like a Michigan or Emory (and even then are you OK spending at least the next 3 years of your life in a smaller college town like Charlottesville or a major metro area with higher COL) vs a more intimate program like Tufts or Dartmouth

Agreed. The places they listed in as target programs imo are as good at the reach. Obviously going to MGH or Brigham will be different with the rep of name but other than about 5-6 programs, the rest of the are as good training and will keep all doors open.

 

[vLion]

Hello everyone, rising 4th year trying to create a list of IM programs. Strongly interested in GI, and would like to stay in the midwest if possible.

USMD, unranked (low-tier)
URiM (not sure if that matters)

Step 1: 24x
Step 2: 261
Clerkship grades: 7 H, 1 HP (first rotation)
Research: 2 pubs, 5 posters, scattered between basic science (summer research) and clinical research
AOA/Gold Humanism: Good chance at AOA
ECs: President of 1 club, part of admissions committee, volunteer at school-affiliated clinic
Red flags: No

Career goals: GI


Reach:
Mayo (Rochester)
Northwestern
UChicago
UMich
Wash U
UPenn
UPitt

Target (includes home program):
Rush
UIC
Loyola
Indiana University
MCW
UW-Madison
University of Iowa
University of Minnesota

Safety:
Haven't come up with a list of safeties yet.

Thanks for the help!

 

[pccm//or//bust]

Hey all, I hope you can help me picking out realistic programs to send applications to. The only things I feel strongly about are getting exposure to diverse pathologies, good procedural training (at least getting lines), and setting me up for a strong Pulmonary/Critical Care medicine fellowship down the line. I realize my list is pretty unrealistically top-heavy, but I don't have a great idea of what my target schools should be

USMD, lower-mid tier

Step 1: 263
Step 2: 265
Clerkship grades: All honors, including sub-I
Research: 1 abstract that became a poster, 1 meta-analysis in critical care that MAY be submitted before apps, 1 project that didn't end up going anywhere, but I presented interim findings at an internal conference for the immunology department (idk if this is worth diddly squat)
AOA/Gold Humanism: TBD, from what I understand I should qualify for AOA
ECs: Small amount of mentoring and volunteering
Red flags: None

Career goals: Pulmonary/Critical Care Medicine

Here's the list

REACH
Michigan
Duke
Penn
WashU
Cornell
Columbia
Penn
Emory
Vanderbilt
Yale
Mayo Rochester
Northwestern

TARGET
University of Colorado
UPMC
UAB
UChicago
Southwestern
Henry Ford
Dartmouth
Tufts
Baylor
Mount Sinai
Einstein
Utah
Wisconsin
Brown
Boston
Tulane
Wake Forest
UVA
Case Western
Ohio State
U of AZ Tuscon
UConn
UMass
CCF
Iowa
Indiana

 

[Deecee2DO]

Hey all, I hope you can help me picking out realistic programs to send applications to. The only things I feel strongly about are getting exposure to diverse pathologies, good procedural training (at least getting lines), and setting me up for a strong Pulmonary/Critical Care medicine fellowship down the line. I realize my list is pretty unrealistically top-heavy, but I don't have a great idea of what my target schools should be

USMD, lower-mid tier

Step 1: 263
Step 2: 265
Clerkship grades: All honors, including sub-I
Research: 1 abstract that became a poster, 1 meta-analysis in critical care that MAY be submitted before apps, 1 project that didn't end up going anywhere, but I presented interim findings at an internal conference for the immunology department (idk if this is worth diddly squat)
AOA/Gold Humanism: TBD, from what I understand I should qualify for AOA
ECs: Small amount of mentoring and volunteering
Red flags: None

Career goals: Pulmonary/Critical Care Medicine

Here's the list

REACH
Michigan
Duke
Penn
WashU
Cornell
Columbia
Penn
Emory
Vanderbilt
Yale
Mayo Rochester
Northwestern

TARGET
University of Colorado
UPMC
UAB
UChicago
Southwestern
Henry Ford
Dartmouth
Tufts
Baylor
Mount Sinai
Einstein
Utah
Wisconsin
Brown
Boston
Tulane
Wake Forest
UVA
Case Western
Ohio State
U of AZ Tuscon
UConn
UMass
CCF
Iowa
Indiana

Your app is pretty boss only thing possibly limiting some of the T10s for u is research is a little weak. If you get AOA youll have a good shot at all of those places. Only true reaches for you are Penn Columbia Duke and WashU but theyre reaches for most people

 

[Deecee2DO]

Hello everyone, rising 4th year trying to create a list of IM programs. Strongly interested in GI, and would like to stay in the midwest if possible.

USMD, unranked (low-tier)
URiM (not sure if that matters)

Step 1: 24x
Step 2: 261
Clerkship grades: 7 H, 1 HP (first rotation)
Research: 2 pubs, 5 posters, scattered between basic science (summer research) and clinical research
AOA/Gold Humanism: Good chance at AOA
ECs: President of 1 club, part of admissions committee, volunteer at school-affiliated clinic
Red flags: No

Career goals: GI


Reach:
Mayo (Rochester)
Northwestern
UChicago
UMich
Wash U
UPenn
UPitt

Target (includes home program):
Rush
UIC
Loyola
Indiana University
MCW
UW-Madison
University of Iowa
University of Minnesota

Safety:
Haven't come up with a list of safeties yet.

Thanks for the help!

You have a solid shot at Mayo Pitt and Northwestern possibly could move those to targets. Add BU Tufts Brown Dartmouth UVA Georgetown and UNC to targets

 

[gutonc]

Hello everyone, rising 4th year trying to create a list of IM programs. Strongly interested in GI, and would like to stay in the midwest if possible.

USMD, unranked (low-tier)
URiM (not sure if that matters)

Step 1: 24x
Step 2: 261
Clerkship grades: 7 H, 1 HP (first rotation)
Research: 2 pubs, 5 posters, scattered between basic science (summer research) and clinical research
AOA/Gold Humanism: Good chance at AOA
ECs: President of 1 club, part of admissions committee, volunteer at school-affiliated clinic
Red flags: No

Career goals: GI


Reach:
Mayo (Rochester)
Northwestern
UChicago
UMich
Wash U
UPenn
UPitt

Target (includes home program):
Rush
UIC
Loyola
Indiana University
MCW
UW-Madison
University of Iowa
University of Minnesota

Safety:
Haven't come up with a list of safeties yet.

Thanks for the help!

You've targeted a pretty narrow swath of the country (Penn and Pitt being the only not solidly midwest programs on your list), which is fine if you want to stay there, because you'll definitely match somewhere on that list. But why not open your horizons and visit some other parts of the country and see what they have to offer? I recognize that pando-times are weird/expensive for travel, and the interview process still isn't back to normal, but my favorite part of the process when I did it, was being able to see parts of the country I'd never been to and imagine what it would be like to live there for 3+ years.

 

[vLion]

You've targeted a pretty narrow swath of the country (Penn and Pitt being the only not solidly midwest programs on your list), which is fine if you want to stay there, because you'll definitely match somewhere on that list. But why not open your horizons and visit some other parts of the country and see what they have to offer? I recognize that pando-times are weird/expensive for travel, and the interview process still isn't back to normal, but my favorite part of the process when I did it, was being able to see parts of the country I'd never been to and imagine what it would be like to live there for 3+ years.

Thanks Gutonc, I'm open to that suggestion. Do you think you could comment on what other programs I should aim/reach for? Thanks again.

 

[vLion]

You have a solid shot at Mayo Pitt and Northwestern possibly could move those to targets. Add BU Tufts Brown Dartmouth UVA Georgetown and UNC to targets

Thanks Deecee, will do!

 

[gutonc]

Thanks Gutonc, I'm open to that suggestion. Do you think you could comment on what other programs I should aim/reach for? Thanks again.

The sky's the limit. Applying is cheap (relative to the rest of the process, not to mention what you've already spent to get here)...spend a few hundred on a couple of dozen apps and see what happens.

Choose based just on location.
Choose the "grandma" programs (those are ones your grandma had heard of).
Choose places you got rejected from for med school.
Choose programs with exactly 13 letters in their name.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Thanks Deecee, will do!

Youll get alot of interviews and wouldnt be surprised if you got some love from Penn UMich WashU or UChicago. You can also add Vandy Emory Baylor (BCM) and Yale i think youll score an interview or two from these places

 

[Future_HeartMD]

Random (probably dumb question) but do 4th year grades prior to ERAS matter as much as 3rd year grades?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Random (probably dumb question) but do 4th year grades prior to ERAS matter as much as 3rd year grades?

If its a SubI yes if not no one really cares just dont fail lol

 

[JimBone905]

USDO trying to match academic IM in the north-east, specifically in the tri-state area nyc/nj/pa. Have no idea where to start but sure could use some advice on program recommendations!

Step 1 227
Level 1 540
Step 2 245
Level 2 - pending results in August

3 posters 1 pub .. working on another pub that won't be finished until cycle is over.

Decent LOR I think

Average student not in the bottom or top 25% but somewhere in the middle with B> A > 3 C from preclinical (like 85% avg student no failures)

 

[gutonc]

USDO trying to match academic IM in the north-east, specifically in the tri-state area nyc/nj/pa. Have no idea where to start but sure could use some advice on program recommendations!

Step 1 227
Level 1 540
Step 2 245
Level 2 - pending results in August

3 posters 1 pub .. working on another pub that won't be finished until cycle is over.

Decent LOR I think

Average student not in the bottom or top 25% but somewhere in the middle with B> A > 3 C from preclinical (like 85% avg student no failures)

You start first.

 

[Deecee2DO]

USDO trying to match academic IM in the north-east, specifically in the tri-state area nyc/nj/pa. Have no idea where to start but sure could use some advice on program recommendations!

Step 1 227
Level 1 540
Step 2 245
Level 2 - pending results in August

3 posters 1 pub .. working on another pub that won't be finished until cycle is over.

Decent LOR I think

Average student not in the bottom or top 25% but somewhere in the middle with B> A > 3 C from preclinical (like 85% avg student no failures)

Let us know where youre thinking. Few reaches, targets and safeties and can get a better idea of where you should apply

 

[JimBone905]

Let us know where youre thinking. Few reaches, targets and safeties and can get a better idea of where you should apply

Here are the programs I am interested in/know of. If I leave out any good ones let me know so I can look into them

Zucker SOM / northwell SIUH
Zucker SOM / northwell Mather
Zucker SOM / Lenox hill
U Buffalo
U Rochester
Stony Brook
Stony Brook south hampton
SUNY upstate
SUNY downstate
Richmond university medical center
NYP- (brooklyn, manhattan, flushing campuses)
NYMC - (main campus or Rhode Island campus)
NYU
Montefiore main campus
Maimonides
Albany
NYU Langone (brooklyn)
Harlem Hospital Center
Icahn Mount Sinai (Beth israel)
Icahn mount sinai

New Jersey:
Rutgers (lots of campuses don't know which ones are good or not)
Rowan
Cooper SOM

PA:
PCOM
Jefferson Health NE
UPENN
Thomas Jefferson Sidney Kimmel
Temple

Edit: if u guys recommend other good programs in other states I'm open to suggestions, I'm flexible and program>location for me

Is cleveland clinic a reasonable goal for example?

 

[Deecee2DO]

Here are the programs I am interested in/know of. If I leave out any good ones let me know so I can look into them

Zucker SOM / northwell SIUH
Zucker SOM / northwell Mather
Zucker SOM / Lenox hill
U Buffalo
U Rochester
Stony Brook
Stony Brook south hampton
SUNY upstate
SUNY downstate
Richmond university medical center
NYP- (brooklyn, manhattan, flushing campuses)
NYMC - (main campus or Rhode Island campus)
NYU
Montefiore main campus
Maimonides
Albany
NYU Langone (brooklyn)
Harlem Hospital Center
Icahn Mount Sinai (Beth israel)
Icahn mount sinai

New Jersey:
Rutgers (lots of campuses don't know which ones are good or not)
Rowan
Cooper SOM

PA:
PCOM
Jefferson Health NE
UPENN
Thomas Jefferson Sidney Kimmel
Temple

Edit: if u guys recommend other good programs in other states I'm open to suggestions, I'm flexible and program>location for me

Is cleveland clinic a reasonable goal for example?

I would say Penn (HUP), Temple, Rutgers (RWJ), NYU main, Cleveland Clinic main, monte main, Jeff (Sidney Kimmel) are definitely without question reaches with NYU main and Penn (HUP) being essentially donations-DOs with perfect apps (all honors 250-260+ and multiple pubs) dont get interviews there. Rochester might be a reach. The rest are targets. How are your clinical grades? how many honors/HP/pass?

 

[JimBone905]

I would say Penn (HUP), Temple, Rutgers (RWJ), NYU main, Cleveland Clinic main, monte main, Jeff (Sidney Kimmel) are definitely without question reaches with NYU main and Penn (HUP) being essentially donations-DOs with perfect apps (all honors 250-260+ and multiple pubs) dont get interviews there. Rochester might be a reach. The rest are targets. How are your clinical grades? how many honors/HP/pass?

My school is A/B/Cs and they don't really tell us about what honors is so I dnt rly know..
All I can say is that my lowest clinical grade is an 84 and highest is a 92.

IM grade is an 89 - B

I can try and find out but not sure. Im on an IM sub-I rn and attending stays im doing awesome and will write me a letter (he's an IM PD).

Would you say Mt.Sinai is a reach as well?

Edit - Montefiore for example says they just require a 220+ on ERAS, why would you consider it a reach? Also, NYU says their average step 1 accepted is a 227

 

[mdvc7878]

Hi everyone. Late to hopping on the internal medicine train. Was going to do ophthalmology but fell in love with oncology and want to go down that route - ideally academia/research.

- Took a gap year between 3rd and 4th year working in a biotech startup: my focus there was on developing imaging/therapeutic modalities for hepatocellular carcinoma.
- Top 15 medical school
- No pre-clinical ranking
- 3rd/4th quartile for clinicals (2 honors in surgery and psychiatry. High pass in everything else)
- AOA/GHHS: No
- Step 1: 239
- Step 2: No score, will take later this year.

Recommendation letters obtained:
1. From my ophthalmology mentor (did a clinical rotation + spent most of medical school doing research with her)
2. From one of my preceptors from my IM rotation
3. Will aim to get another recommendation from IM preceptor on an elective I'm doing this month.

Research/Extracurriculars:
- 37 publications on my CV: vast majority ophthalmology, about 7+ in molecular cancer diagnostics/therapeutics
- 1 book chapter in Ophtho
- 24ish abstracts/presentations.
- Two research awards: one at an ophthalmology conference, and another at a radiology conference
- I have been awarded 3 patents
- During medical school I was an engineering consultant for a few ophtho device startups and helped lead product development.

I would ideally like to train at a top academic institution on the coasts that has the infrastructure for me to pursue my research/industry interests. Do I have a shot at these top programs, or am I SOL given my Step 1 and clinical grades? Places like BWH, MGH, Cornell, NYU, etc. Ideally I'd like to be in Boston, NYC (raised there), or Philly.

Appreciate all of the help!

 

[Deecee2DO]

My school is A/B/Cs and they don't really tell us about what honors is so I dnt rly know..
All I can say is that my lowest clinical grade is an 84 and highest is a 92.

IM grade is an 89 - B

I can try and find out but not sure. Im on an IM sub-I rn and attending stays im doing awesome and will write me a letter (he's an IM PD).

Would you say Mt.Sinai is a reach as well?

Edit - Montefiore for example says they just require a 220+ on ERAS, why would you consider it a reach? Also, NYU says their average step 1 accepted is a 227

They “require” 220+ that doesnt mean its competitive. Also from what I recall they dont take a lot of DOs and many of the residents are from strong USMD programs. You also have to factor in that youre a DO with these places. Monte is a strong upper midtier academic program-if a DO is matching there they likely have a ton of research and/or a very very strong application. Im not being mean im just trying to help you understand how competitive IM is once you get to the mid tier programs and higher as a DO. DOs with basically perfect apps typically cap out at the upper midtier to T30 range because they are DOs. Sure there are a select few that have matched T20 but its exceedingly rare. I think you can match academic but i would say your ceiling is most likely lower midtier academic programs. NYU is out of the question they are a T20 academic program and have never taken a DO. If they interview a DO its going to be the 250+ all honors top 5% of the class multiple pubs kid. Mt Sinai (Icahn) like THE Mt Sinai is also out of the question-they are T20 academic IM program and have never taken a DO. They are plenty of academic programs youd be competitive for but these elite names are tough to break into even for DOs with perfect applications. Many of the programs youd be competitive for will set you up fine for any fellowship so I wouldnt worry about that. You also have research which will help you for sure

 

[JimBone905]

They “require” 220+ that doesnt mean its competitive. Also from what I recall they dont take a lot of DOs and many of the residents are from strong USMD programs. You also have to factor in that youre a DO with these places. Monte is a strong upper midtier academic program-if a DO is matching there they likely have a ton of research and/or a very very strong application. Im not being mean im just trying to help you understand how competitive IM is once you get to the mid tier programs and higher as a DO. DOs with basically perfect apps typically cap out at the upper midtier to T30 range because they are DOs. Sure there are a select few that have matched T20 but its exceedingly rare. I think you can match academic but i would say your ceiling is most likely lower midtier academic programs. NYU is out of the question they are a T20 academic program and have never taken a DO. If they interview a DO its going to be the 250+ all honors top 5% of the class multiple pubs kid. Mt Sinai (Icahn) like THE Mt Sinai is also out of the question-they are T20 academic IM program and have never taken a DO. They are plenty of academic programs youd be competitive for but these elite names are tough to break into even for DOs with perfect applications. Many of the programs youd be competitive for will set you up fine for any fellowship so I wouldnt worry about that. You also have research which will help you for sure

No worries I'm not saying ur being mean I just dont know much about the process so I'm asking questions.

So what about the non-main NYU/sinai programs, are those still target/quality programs to go for? I don't rly care about prestige but I would be very happy at an academic center low/mid tier, especially if that would help me for fellowship/teaching later. Thanks for your advice!

 

[Deecee2DO]

No worries I'm not saying ur being mean I just dont know much about the process so I'm asking questions.

So what about the non-main NYU/sinai programs, are those still target/quality programs to go for? I don't rly care about prestige but I would be very happy at an academic center low/mid tier, especially if that would help me for fellowship/teaching later. Thanks for your advice!

Sorry I just didnt want to come off as harsh lol thats why i said I didnt want my post to come off as mean. I know its a very complex process and not your fault bc DO programs dont give you any guidance in this department unfortunately. You are doing a great thing by reaching out for help to gauge your competitiveness to make a good list! The other Sinai and NYU sites may be in your wheelhouse but I dont know a lot about them actually. Some may have a lot of IMGs but I am not sure. To reiterate you will definitely have somw great fellowship opportunities wherever you end up and I do think you have the bones to match academic just a matter of where. If you cast a wide net and add some community programs like you have on your list you should be good

 

[Deecee2DO]

Hi everyone. Late to hopping on the internal medicine train. Was going to do ophthalmology but fell in love with oncology and want to go down that route - ideally academia/research.

- Took a gap year between 3rd and 4th year working in a biotech startup: my focus there was on developing imaging/therapeutic modalities for hepatocellular carcinoma.
- Top 15 medical school
- No pre-clinical ranking
- 3rd/4th quartile for clinicals (2 honors in surgery and psychiatry. High pass in everything else)
- AOA/GHHS: No
- Step 1: 239
- Step 2: No score, will take later this year.

Recommendation letters obtained:
1. From my ophthalmology mentor (did a clinical rotation + spent most of medical school doing research with her)
2. From one of my preceptors from my IM rotation
3. Will aim to get another recommendation from IM preceptor on an elective I'm doing this month.

Research/Extracurriculars:
- 37 publications on my CV: vast majority ophthalmology, about 7+ in molecular cancer diagnostics/therapeutics
- 1 book chapter in Ophtho
- 24ish abstracts/presentations.
- Two research awards: one at an ophthalmology conference, and another at a radiology conference
- I have been awarded 3 patents
- During medical school I was an engineering consultant for a few ophtho device startups and helped lead product development.

I would ideally like to train at a top academic institution on the coasts that has the infrastructure for me to pursue my research/industry interests. Do I have a shot at these top programs, or am I SOL given my Step 1 and clinical grades? Places like BWH, MGH, Cornell, NYU, etc. Ideally I'd like to be in Boston, NYC (raised there), or Philly.

Appreciate all of the help!

Dude 3 patents and 37 pubs? lmao absolute savage. Coming from a T15 med school any of the T20 places are in your wheelhouse. You can apply wherever you want realistically lol MGH BWH JHH and UCSF are difficult for anyone so no guarantees there but Cornell NYU Sinai Yale BIDMC are for sure targets. Penn and Columbia probs target-ish/reach. If you get 260+ Step 2 youll be ballin

 

[Lord Osis]

No worries I'm not saying ur being mean I just dont know much about the process so I'm asking questions.

So what about the non-main NYU/sinai programs, are those still target/quality programs to go for? I don't rly care about prestige but I would be very happy at an academic center low/mid tier, especially if that would help me for fellowship/teaching later. Thanks for your advice!

Given the credential and stats, satellite programs of these major institutions make more sense like Deecee2DO had stated. Generally these institutions are more IMG- and DO-friendly than so-called "high-tier programs". I would also consider NYU Winthrop (now NYU Long Island?), Northwell Long Island Jewish Forest Hills, and Montefiore Wakefield. Winthrop has now their own NYU-brand med school and a research institute. Wakefield is more of a community hospital, recently acquired by Einstein COM. Similar story to LIJ FH - one of the Northwell's community hospitals. NJMS (Rutgers Newark) also makes sense. RWJMS (Rutgers New Brunswick - flagship Rutgers) is a reach. Don't apply for flagship Northwell (NS-LIJ) as they don't hire DOs for IM residency, which is an uncommon thing for a mid-tier program.

Of note, be careful and don't apply the same interpretation of entry stats and fellowship match outcomes of these institutions as AMG-heavy institutions, especially when the program has lots of foreign medical school graduates. They needed very very high scores and tons of research experience to be able to match into a US program. Often they are from Harvard-equivalent med schools from their own countries, or even have attending-level credential from the beginning. If the match outcome of one of these satellite institution appears strong, it does not necessarily mean the program does a good job getting their residents into the right path - it's the population they hire is highly competent to begin with.

 

[JimBone905]

Given the credential and stats, satellite programs of these major institutions make more sense like Deecee2DO had stated. Generally these institutions are more IMG- and DO-friendly than so-called "high-tier programs". I would also consider NYU Winthrop (now NYU Long Island?), Northwell Long Island Jewish Forest Hills, and Montefiore Wakefield. Winthrop has now their own NYU-brand med school and a research institute. Wakefield is more of a community hospital, recently acquired by Einstein COM. Similar story to LIJ FH - one of the Northwell's community hospitals. NJMS (Rutgers Newark) also makes sense. RWJMS (Rutgers New Brunswick - flagship Rutgers) is a reach. Don't apply for flagship Northwell (NS-LIJ) as they don't hire DOs for IM residency, which is an uncommon thing for a mid-tier program.

Of note, be careful and don't apply the same interpretation of entry stats and fellowship match outcomes of these institutions as AMG-heavy institutions, especially when the program has lots of foreign medical school graduates. They needed very very high scores and tons of research experience to be able to match into a US program. Often they are from Harvard-equivalent med schools from their own countries, or even have attending-level credential from the beginning. If the match outcome of one of these satellite institution appears strong, it does not necessarily mean the program does a good job getting their residents into the right path - it's the population they hire is highly competent to begin with.

Thanks again for your response. Would you say the other university programs I mentioned are reasonable to expect interviews and rank at? (The SUNY, UBuffalo, Stony, ect)

 

[mdvc7878]

Dude 3 patents and 37 pubs? lmao absolute savage. Coming from a T15 med school any of the T20 places are in your wheelhouse. You can apply wherever you want realistically lol MGH BWH JHH and UCSF are difficult for anyone so no guarantees there but Cornell NYU Sinai Yale BIDMC are for sure targets. Penn and Columbia probs target-ish/reach. If you get 260+ Step 2 youll be ballin

Appreciate that but my advisors said that my grades aren't great and so I likely won't have a chance at top 20.

 

[gutonc]

Appreciate that but my advisors said that my grades aren't great and so I likely won't have a chance at top 20.

So are you going to not apply? Because that's silly.

Your advisors, coming from a T15 school, are used to the AOA gunners with the same dull "research" experience and other checkbox CV stuff that T15 schools are known for. They're not used to someone with a CV like yours (although TBH, most schools wouldn't really know what to do with you). That T15 gets your foot in the door and your CV speaks for itself. You will definitely get some nibbles from Top X programs, and it's kind of ridiculous to not at least try, if that's what fits your career goals.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Appreciate that but my advisors said that my grades aren't great and so I likely won't have a chance at top 20.

100% not true lol you certainly have a shot at T20. Being at a T15 school with all of that research and patents will get u in the door

 

[mdvc7878]

So are you going to not apply? Because that's silly.

Your advisors, coming from a T15 school, are used to the AOA gunners with the same dull "research" experience and other checkbox CV stuff that T15 schools are known for. They're not used to someone with a CV like yours (although TBH, most schools wouldn't really know what to do with you). That T15 gets your foot in the door and your CV speaks for itself. You will definitely get some nibbles from Top X programs, and it's kind of ridiculous to not at least try, if that's what fits your career goals.

Sorry - meant that that's just what my advisor said. I most certainly will be applying to all of those programs to shoot my shot! Appreciate the insight.

 

[Deecee2DO]

Thanks again for your response. Would you say the other university programs I mentioned are reasonable to expect interviews and rank at? (The SUNY, UBuffalo, Stony, ect)

Chuck apps to all 3 of those you may get interviews there