Official Rank List Thread 2008-2009

[yayarea]

Why do so few post ranking top programs include Columbia? Did most of you not interview there or are you not ranking them?

Columbia chose not to interview me. They were the only top program that turned me down. That's why it isn't on my list.

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[HB921]

I will keep UAB #1. The only other places that I know of are U Oklahoma, which is supposed to have been really good at one time in elctrophysiology with a great cardiology program, so will definitely put that #2 or 3. Also, ECU (East Carolina) has a good cardiology program and they like to take their own. UTMB is just opening up with few of the Ob and med beds...not sure about their future .. I would put methodist higher in top 5 for sure ... it is in the texas medical center and there are so many opportunities to hook up with people in cardiology just due to your proximity (not to mention Texas Heart/St Luke, UT-Houston, and Baylor are right there for you to do research) ..

So I would keep UAB #1 without doubt and then play with 2, 3, and 4 depending on where you want to live and where you got good feel ...

1 U Alabama Med Ctr-Birmingham
2 U Oklahoma COM-OK City
3 Pitt County Mem Hosp/Brody SOM (East Carolina University)-NC
4 Methodist Hospital-Houston-TX
5 WSU/Detroit Med Ctr-MI
6 LSUHSC-Shreveport-LA
7 U Texas Med Branch-Galveston
8 Howard Univ Hosp-DC

Good Luck

Thank you!
Any more thoughts?

 

[SNR8035]

1. Emory
2. Wash U
3. Cornell
4. Vanderbilt
5. UCSD
6. Michigan
7. UPMC
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Hopkins
11. U Chicago
12. Maryland

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

 

[BGriffin]

1. Emory
2. Wash U
3. Cornell
4. Vanderbilt
5. UCSD
6. Michigan
7. UPMC
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Hopkins
11. U Chicago
12. Maryland

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

I would personally rank it:

Hopkins, Duke, Cornell, Chicago, then

Emory, Wash U, Vanderbilt, UCSD and the rest.

 

[mem141]

1. Emory
2. Wash U
3. Cornell
4. Vanderbilt
5. UCSD
6. Michigan
7. UPMC
8. Duke
9. Brown
10. Hopkins
11. U Chicago
12. Maryland

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

I think you can be confident you'd get great training at any of them. Given how competitive you must be to have interviewed at these places, I'd say odds are pretty good you'll match at your top 4 (most likely top 2) so if their order is pretty firm you should be good to go Congrats!

 

[rocdweller]

My rank list is as follows:

1. NYU
2. Brown
3. Michigan
4. UVa
5. Einstein-Montefiore

I prefer to be in NYC as it is close to home for me and I had a favorable impression of NYU on my interview day. In addition, I'm interested in cards/critical care. Was just curious if there was anyone out there that has any opinion of NYU and the teaching that goes on there. Thanks for your help!

 

[mentulbloc]

Help rank, prefer strength of clinical training, happiness, then location, most likely gi or cc
by geographic area starting east to west:
Dartmouth
Montefiore
Thomas Jeff
UMD
RWJUH
Georgetown
Upit
CCF
Mayo-Rochester
UUtah
UCol
USC
UCLA med center

 

[SNR8035]

I think you can be confident you'd get great training at any of them. Given how competitive you must be to have interviewed at these places, I'd say odds are pretty good you'll match at your top 4 (most likely top 2) so if their order is pretty firm you should be good to go Congrats!

Thanks for the advice, both to you and BGriffin...I appreciate it!

 

[ForeignBody]

Help rank, prefer strength of clinical training, happiness, then location, most likely gi or cc
by geographic area starting east to west:
Dartmouth
Montefiore
Thomas Jeff
UMD
RWJUH
Georgetown
Upit
CCF
Mayo-Rochester
UUtah
UCol
USC
UCLA med center

How do you quantify this? Seems like its just going to be based on someone's perceived prestige of the program...if they perceive it as more prestigious, then they will say the strength of clinical training is greater.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

My rank list is as follows:



I prefer to be in NYC as it is close to home for me and I had a favorable impression of NYU on my interview day. In addition, I'm interested in cards/critical care. Was just curious if there was anyone out there that has any opinion of NYU and the teaching that goes on there. Thanks for your help!

1. NYU
2. Einstein-Montefiore
3. Michigan
4. Brown
5. UVa

If you didn't want to be in NYC or not too sure then I would put Michigan #1.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Interested more in clinical training rather than academics, but considering crit care or cards fellowships. Like bigger cities vs. small. Got a great feeling from the first 4...any thoughts?

My personal ranking would be:
1. Hopkins (Baltimore is not a small city per se)
2. Wash U
3. Emory
4. UCSD (personal bias for san diego)
5. Cornell
6. U Chicago (I don't know about this withall that laying off stuff going on at UC ... with other awesome choices, i will keep it here or at least not rank it too high)
7. Duke (small city but not that small either .... if you lift city restriction, I would put this #2 after hopkins)
8. Michigan
9. Vanderbilt
10. UPMC
11. Brown
12. Maryland

Given your interviews, I am pretty sure you will match at your #1. Good luck with ROL.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Rank list as follows (1 and 2 are fluid)
1. Mt Sinai
2. Cornell
3. Columbia
4. BIDMC
5. Yale
6. UCLA
7. NW
8. Uchicago
9. NYU

prefer NYC, interested in Cards, Value overall quality of program(academics, support, friendliness etc...)
Let me know what you think

 

[gutonc]

Rank list as follows (1 and 2 are fluid)
1. Mt Sinai
2. Cornell
3. Columbia
4. BIDMC
5. Yale
6. UCLA
7. NW
8. Uchicago
9. NYU

prefer NYC, interested in Cards, Value overall quality of program(academics, support, friendliness etc...)
Let me know what you think

FWIW, that's about how I would rank the NYC programs. I loved Sinai, liked Cornell, didn't IV @ Columbia and hated NYU. Personally I'd move NW up to 5 but based on the interviews you got, you're unlikely to go down that far unless you made it a habit of punching your interviewers on interview day. Good luck.

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Rank list as follows (1 and 2 are fluid)
1. Mt Sinai
2. Cornell
3. Columbia
4. BIDMC
5. Yale
6. UCLA
7. NW
8. Uchicago
9. NYU

prefer NYC, interested in Cards, Value overall quality of program(academics, support, friendliness etc...)
Let me know what you think

Any reason why Columbia is at #3, given that they have better track record of placing residents in Cardiology than Sinai or Cornell?

 

[iatrosB]

unless you made it a habit of punching your interviewers on interview day.

Wait! Is this a bad thing to do?! Another SDN'er swore that's how I'd get my number 1 spot.

 

[SNR8035]

My personal ranking would be:
1. Hopkins (Baltimore is not a small city per se)
2. Wash U
3. Emory
4. UCSD (personal bias for san diego)
5. Cornell
6. U Chicago (I don't know about this withall that laying off stuff going on at UC ... with other awesome choices, i will keep it here or at least not rank it too high)
7. Duke (small city but not that small either .... if you lift city restriction, I would put this #2 after hopkins)
8. Michigan
9. Vanderbilt
10. UPMC
11. Brown
12. Maryland

Given your interviews, I am pretty sure you will match at your #1. Good luck with ROL.

Thanks a lot...good luck to you too.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

repeat

 

[yabastaman]

Why BIDMC over Yale?

 

[kimjohnstain]

I am debating on the following 3 catagorical IM programs:

-USC -Lahey Clinic -SUNY Downstate

Can anyone please help me decide which program is best overall, regardless of location. In the future, I know I would like to pursue a fellowship but I'm not sure which one. Therefore, I want to keep all my doors open with regard to fellowships. I would really appreciate all or any of your help. Thanks in advance!!!

 

[medstdnt123]

Debating between UPMC (Pitt) vs. Wash U (St. Louis). Want to do G.I. and while both seem to definetely place very well for fellowships the past few years per their lists, I was wondering if anyone had any particular inside opinion from residents who either go to these places or applicants who interviewed there and what your thoughts are either on G.I. and fellowships or just the residency programs in general? Location is not as important. Thanks a lot.

 

[boyz of 4d]

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed before but im getting nervous about this as submission day comes closer.

I've made out my match list and put Upitt first. I'm interested in eventually pursuing cardiology. As of now I have ranked brown 2, monte 3, and case 4.

From what I have heard from my classmates and my adviser, brown is a better internal medicine program. However, if you look at their fellowship placement, they don't put many into cardio. 1 last year, 3 the year before. However I know monte matches double digits every year (with 100% match as per Dr. Silbiger), albeit a lot to community hospitals(but at least their matching somewhere). When I asked about this on my brown interview day they stated that it was just due to lack of interest in cardio, not lack of matching.

Just wondering what you guys have heard about this. Let me know. Thanks in advance.

 

[carter]

I am debating on the following 3 catagorical IM programs:

-USC -Lahey Clinic -SUNY Downstate

Can anyone please help me decide which program is best overall, regardless of location. In the future, I know I would like to pursue a fellowship but I'm not sure which one. Therefore, I want to keep all my doors open with regard to fellowships. I would really appreciate all or any of your help. Thanks in advance!!!

I'm sort of in the similar boat as you. I have heard from numerous people that Lahey has a very strong reputation, more so than some of midtier programs in the northeast such as Downstate, Umass and Uconn etc. I'm thinking about ranking them pretty high myself, above a lot of university programs. Loved their location and overall friendliness. Downstate has a ton of in-house fellowships which seem to take all their own. But you would have to be willing to deal with the craziness of the program. Don't know much about USC, except they have a great football team.

 

[johnnywalker]

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed before but im getting nervous about this as submission day comes closer.

I've made out my match list and put Upitt first. I'm interested in eventually pursuing cardiology. As of now I have ranked brown 2, monte 3, and case 4.

From what I have heard from my classmates and my adviser, brown is a better internal medicine program. However, if you look at their fellowship placement, they don't put many into cardio. 1 last year, 3 the year before. However I know monte matches double digits every year (with 100% match as per Dr. Silbiger), albeit a lot to community hospitals(but at least their matching somewhere). When I asked about this on my brown interview day they stated that it was just due to lack of interest in cardio, not lack of matching.

Just wondering what you guys have heard about this. Let me know. Thanks in advance.

wait a IM program where the residents aren't interested in Cards??? Is that possible?

 

[Handle]

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. JHU
4. University of Colorado
5. Vanderbilt
6. OHSU
7. UW
8. UTSW
9. UCLA

Wildcard: University of Chicago.

My changing list on ROL-eve eve:

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. Vanderbilt
4. Hopkins
5. Colorado
6. UChicago
7. OHSU
8. UW
9. UTSW
10. UCLA

2-6 still shuffling every time I think it though. Glad this will be over soon Any input appreciated.

 

[IM2009]

Hey guys, I know this has been discussed before but im getting nervous about this as submission day comes closer.

I've made out my match list and put Upitt first. I'm interested in eventually pursuing cardiology. As of now I have ranked brown 2, monte 3, and case 4.

From what I have heard from my classmates and my adviser, brown is a better internal medicine program. However, if you look at their fellowship placement, they don't put many into cardio. 1 last year, 3 the year before. However I know monte matches double digits every year (with 100% match as per Dr. Silbiger), albeit a lot to community hospitals(but at least their matching somewhere). When I asked about this on my brown interview day they stated that it was just due to lack of interest in cardio, not lack of matching.

Just wondering what you guys have heard about this. Let me know. Thanks in advance.

I think you may have some wrong information about Montefiore. From the data I've seen on their website and the handout I got on interview day, they do not match double digit into cards every year. Check out: http://www.aecom.yu.edu/medicine/education.aspx?id=7220&bid=12462 , where they show 2005-2009 fellowship placements (Don't you hate it when programs group data from multiple years!). This shows only 13 cards matches from 2005-2009...which averages to only about 3 per year. Please correct me if I'm wrong because if they are indeed matching double-digits to cards every year it would definitely change how I rank them.

 

[boyz of 4d]

Hey IM 2009, I was actually at Monte for a month (did an endocrine elective which was excellent btw), and interviewed with the PD and asked about this. The response I got was that the list given contain the programs people went to, but they did not say how many people went to each one. So if 3 people stayed at monte, they only listed it once and so on. I also asked the residents at lunch and they agreed that they match >10 every year. I actually met 5 3rd year during my interview who stated they were doing cardio the next year (2 into monte, 1 sinai, 2 smaller community hospitals). I probably should have asked the PD for the exact match list from last year. Let me know if you hear anything else. Also if you know anything about brown that would be really helpful.

Is the general consensus that brown > monte in terms of prestige?

 

[VandyMed2009]

Handle, as has been said before, with the a caliber of interviews you got (BWH and hopkins, congrats!) it is highly unlikely you will go below #2. so do'nt stress too much the lower part of your list.

 

[IM2009]

Hey IM 2009, I was actually at Monte for a month (did an endocrine elective which was excellent btw), and interviewed with the PD and asked about this. The response I got was that the list given contain the programs people went to, but they did not say how many people went to each one. So if 3 people stayed at monte, they only listed it once and so on. I also asked the residents at lunch and they agreed that they match >10 every year. I actually met 5 3rd year during my interview who stated they were doing cardio the next year (2 into monte, 1 sinai, 2 smaller community hospitals). I probably should have asked the PD for the exact match list from last year. Let me know if you hear anything else. Also if you know anything about brown that would be really helpful.

Is the general consensus that brown > monte in terms of prestige?

Thanks for the clarification. I really did like Montefiore. I have two friends who went through IM there and really liked it. I also thought their PD was great. Of the 4 programs you mentioned, I interviewed at all of them except Brown (didn't apply). Brown aside, the relative ranking of your other three on my list is UMPC, Case, Monte.

If you're just talking prestige, Brown has the ivy league thing going for it which would be prestgious to people outside of medicine. But in the IM world I don't think Brown is that big a deal. If you think those silly rankings are a proxy for prestige than the US News wont help because neither are on the list. In terms of NIH research dollars, in 2005 Albert Einstein (don't know if this is only Monte) was ranked 28, while Brown didn't make the list. Anyways, I don't think there is that much disparity in reputation between Brown v Monte that you should decide based on that. I think Monte being near NYC would more than make up for any difference. I also think (and this is just a guess since I didn't go to Brown) that the depth and breadth of clinical training at Monte would far surpass Brown.

Just my two cents...

 

[artline]

My changing list on ROL-eve eve:

1. BWH
2. Duke
3. Vanderbilt
4. Hopkins
5. Colorado
6. UChicago
7. OHSU
8. UW
9. UTSW
10. UCLA

2-6 still shuffling every time I think it though. Glad this will be over soon Any input appreciated.

long time listener first time caller...

as was said, very unlikely you are going to go past Dook, especially with their difficulty filling last year. personally, i am ranking vandy ahead of duke. (1. MGH 2. vandy 3. hopkins 4. duke ) vandy seems to have it together as a program, where duke is in big transition these days - who knows how all the changes will work and about 10 of your second years scrambled into medicine...i like vandy PD a lot better as well. i do like duke's chief sign-out and evidence-based focused. vandy takes their teaching curriculum very seriously, even handing pagers over during required conferences. i think the vandy intern year is harder than the proposed q5 and night floats (on some sub-specialty services) at duke. vandy icu is bigger and better (dr. wheeler attends 1-2 months a year, he wrote the critical care book). you get more acuity at vandy bc you do micu at vandy (q3), micu at va, ccu at va intern year. at duke, you only do va micu and duke ccu as intern and no duke icu until 2 year, where it is only second years, so you are it (which is good and bad i suppose)...duke has better "name" i guess, but that might change if they have trouble filling again or these interns underachieve compared to previous classes...vandy has solid matches in cards gi and pulm (the procedural subspecialties), with emory, penn, hopkins, many vandy, ucla on that list to name a few...anyway, i am not a duke hater or a vandy homer, i want to be at MGH, but that is my impression and one that other applicants that i have talked to, share, i'd say...

 

[indecisive09]

Interested in heme/onc. Want the usual- best fellowship placement, best training, happy life

Colorado (got an awesome vibe here- very progressive)
BIDMC
UCLA
UCSD
Chicago
Northwestern
Baylor
Emory

 

[bbtbay]

Hey all,

I previously posted asking for some thoughts regarding the programs I am deciding between. I've pretty much finalized my list, but still am a little uncertain about these two programs. I am from SF Bay Area, and would in the end (fellowship and beyond) like to settle here. Right now I'm interested in GI, but this is not definite; but I will be doing a fellowship in some area most likely.

What is troubling me is my thinking regarding fellowship. I am a city-person, and although Palo Alto is nice and very close to my hometown, I am not sure if as a single person it would be the best location for me. However, I am also thinking that going to Stanford would most likely put me in a better position for obtaining a CA fellowship rather than Northwestern.

In terms of overall program, when comparing the two they are quite different, and am not sure how they really rank versus each other; from what I gather Stanford would be strong for cardio, NW for GI/Allergy. In terms of people, both programs have friendly residents but are quite different; Stanford seems to attract the married/family-type, NW more like me (single/city-type). I know in the end, it comes down to overall "gut feeling" but my gut doesn't say anything.

Any thoughts about my dilemma; I'm sure I'd be happy at both, but unfortunately we still have to rank one versus the other...

Thanks in advance.

 

[Friendly]

I'm changing my ROL. I just feel unhappy about 1-4. Man....

 

[drjitsu]

long time listener first time caller...

as was said, very unlikely you are going to go past Dook, especially with their difficulty filling last year. personally, i am ranking vandy ahead of duke. (1. MGH 2. vandy 3. hopkins 4. duke ) vandy seems to have it together as a program, where duke is in big transition these days - who knows how all the changes will work and about 10 of your second years scrambled into medicine...i like vandy PD a lot better as well. i do like duke's chief sign-out and evidence-based focused. vandy takes their teaching curriculum very seriously, even handing pagers over during required conferences. i think the vandy intern year is harder than the proposed q5 and night floats (on some sub-specialty services) at duke. vandy icu is bigger and better (dr. wheeler attends 1-2 months a year, he wrote the critical care book). you get more acuity at vandy bc you do micu at vandy (q3), micu at va, ccu at va intern year. at duke, you only do va micu and duke ccu as intern and no duke icu until 2 year, where it is only second years, so you are it (which is good and bad i suppose)...duke has better "name" i guess, but that might change if they have trouble filling again or these interns underachieve compared to previous classes...vandy has solid matches in cards gi and pulm (the procedural subspecialties), with emory, penn, hopkins, many vandy, ucla on that list to name a few...anyway, i am not a duke hater or a vandy homer, i want to be at MGH, but that is my impression and one that other applicants that i have talked to, share, i'd say...

I just have to say, I think this is a bit silly. I interviewed at Vanderbilt and Duke and they are both great programs. But, in terms of general medicine training, clinical strength, and fellowship placement, Duke is far superior, regardless of how many scrambled in last year. In addition, I fully believe that Duke is making those individuals into amazing doctors. (I don't care what you got on your boards or where you went to school... you suck at the begining of intern year) I spoke with many of them during my interview, and they are all extremely bright and hard working people.

Furthermore, I think it's obvious from the interview trail that almost all programs are going through a transition. With IoM recommendations and new ACGME rules constantly coming out, it's ignorant and oblivious not to be transitioning. Response to change is the hallmark of a superior program. Duke is answering that call to change, and in doing so is entering the new age of graduate medical education. In contrast to the above poster, I believe this is an exciting time to get involved with Duke internal medicine. I think the match at Duke is going to be extremely competitive this year. They are going to be even better than before.

(and you are in the ICU at Duke as an intern at Durham Regional, and the residents all said it's one of their favorite months)

 

[bbtbay]

Interested in heme/onc. Want the usual- best fellowship placement, best training, happy life

Colorado (got an awesome vibe here- very progressive)
BIDMC
UCLA
UCSD
Chicago
Northwestern
Baylor
Emory

Based strictly on reputation
UCLA
Chicago
Northwestern
BIDMC
Emory
UCSD=Colorado=Baylor

They are all pretty similar. UCSD does seem to be very strong for Heme/Onc (PD is heme/onc, and they have that hospital specific to it), but I'm not sure if you are 100% heme/onc. Also, I do have a west-coast bias, admittedly so. Also, not sure if all the changes at Chicago would affect your ROL either (I assumed it wouldn't). I interviewed at all the programs except Colorado, Emory, and Baylor which could be a reflection on why I have them lower.

 

[JSI124]

Couple's match list:
1. JHU
2. MGH
3. BWH
4. UMichigan
5. UPenn
6. Mayo (Rochester)
7. JHU/Bayview
8. University of Maryland
9. JHU/Sinai


If I were in it on my own:
1. UMichigan (The best vibe on the track; excellent training, wonderful faculty + excellent research opportunities in my area of interest, great EMR, happy residents, very livable city)
2. MGH (Great program vibe, love the structure of the training, especially Bigelow and how the patients are covered by everyone - great teaching/learning opportunity, the amazing postgraduate prospects, happy residents with very broad interests)
3. JHU (love the "front-loadedness" of the program and the firm structure, on my interview trail got the feeling that it has the most skilled interns/residents and that the clinical training at Osler is unmatched)
4. Mayo (Rochester) (the nicest people on the trail, very supportive environment with extremely high standards, excellent research opportunities during training + excellent mentoring; the location, though, is a big drawback)
5. BWH (excellent training but seems like a cards factory, nevertheless the opportunities one can embrace during residency are amazing and it seems like the most well-rounded program of all)
6. JHU/Bayview
7. University of Maryland
8. UPenn
9. JHU/Sinai

We'll see what comes out of it.

 

[artline]

I just have to say, I think this is a bit silly. I interviewed at Vanderbilt and Duke and they are both great programs. But, in terms of general medicine training, clinical strength, and fellowship placement, Duke is far superior, regardless of how many scrambled in last year. In addition, I fully believe that Duke is making those individuals into amazing doctors. (I don't care what you got on your boards or where you went to school... you suck at the begining of intern year) I spoke with many of them during my interview, and they are all extremely bright and hard working people.

Furthermore, I think it's obvious from the interview trail that almost all programs are going through a transition. With IoM recommendations and new ACGME rules constantly coming out, it's ignorant and oblivious not to be transitioning. Response to change is the hallmark of a superior program. Duke is answering that call to change, and in doing so is entering the new age of graduate medical education. In contrast to the above poster, I believe this is an exciting time to get involved with Duke internal medicine. I think the match at Duke is going to be extremely competitive this year. They are going to be even better than before.

(and you are in the ICU at Duke as an intern at Durham Regional, and the residents all said it's one of their favorite months)

silly? FAR superior? ok, i'll bite.

dude, when they were passing out that kool-aid you just went ahead and started downing by the pint! it is daft to think that everything is rosey in durham...

first, my point was that you are just not in the duke icu as an intern- there is a difference in acuity and learning. as i said you are at the va icu as an intern (not drh)...

"But, in terms of general medicine training, clinical strength, and fellowship placement, Duke is far superior, regardless of how many scrambled in last year." duke doesn't have a general medicine department and many of their GIM faculty left in the last few years. clinical strength - not sure what this means or how to measure it. if you are referring to quality of teaching, i admit that i would not really know how to gauge this, but it is unlikely to be substantially different at either place. i will concede that fellowship placement is probably "better" at duke, but i do think their will be some downstream effects of last year's match, maybe i am wrong...vanderbilt is not going to limit your match ability, and duke doesn't guarantee you a spot anywhere.

i agree that you are going to get great training at duke and vandy. however, i don't think duke's match will be especially competitive this year. look, i talked to many people at interviews at top places that didn't even apply to duke because of last year...you cannot tell me that is good for the match.

i am a little annoyed that you so flippantly called my comments "silly" and then proceeded to make sweeping generalizations without support and statements like "i fully believe", again, with no real proof (how could you have proof that good doctors will come from these interns?) i have talked to residents at duke and not all of those scrambled folks have risen to the occasion, let's just say.

i respect your subjective perception of these programs, i hope that you would respect mine, however silly it may be to you.

 

[nasdr]

Hey all,

I previously posted asking for some thoughts regarding the programs I am deciding between. I've pretty much finalized my list, but still am a little uncertain about these two programs. I am from SF Bay Area, and would in the end (fellowship and beyond) like to settle here. Right now I'm interested in GI, but this is not definite; but I will be doing a fellowship in some area most likely.

What is troubling me is my thinking regarding fellowship. I am a city-person, and although Palo Alto is nice and very close to my hometown, I am not sure if as a single person it would be the best location for me. However, I am also thinking that going to Stanford would most likely put me in a better position for obtaining a CA fellowship rather than Northwestern.

In terms of overall program, when comparing the two they are quite different, and am not sure how they really rank versus each other; from what I gather Stanford would be strong for cardio, NW for GI/Allergy. In terms of people, both programs have friendly residents but are quite different; Stanford seems to attract the married/family-type, NW more like me (single/city-type). I know in the end, it comes down to overall "gut feeling" but my gut doesn't say anything.

Any thoughts about my dilemma; I'm sure I'd be happy at both, but unfortunately we still have to rank one versus the other...

Thanks in advance.

nw is stronger than stanford in the GI department. it's also in a much more exciting area, esp for the individual who's single and preferring a bigger city. you will do perfectly fine applying from nw for fellowships. it's a no-brainer.

 

[nasdr]

Based strictly on reputation
UCLA
Chicago
Northwestern
BIDMC
Emory
UCSD=Colorado=Baylor

They are all pretty similar. UCSD does seem to be very strong for Heme/Onc (PD is heme/onc, and they have that hospital specific to it), but I'm not sure if you are 100% heme/onc. Also, I do have a west-coast bias, admittedly so. Also, not sure if all the changes at Chicago would affect your ROL either (I assumed it wouldn't). I interviewed at all the programs except Colorado, Emory, and Baylor which could be a reflection on why I have them lower.

i'd disagree with the above ranking when considering heme/onc. BIDMC has some great matches for onc and should be higher. their matches are listed below:

2008 - DFCI, UCSF, BID
2007 - DFCI x 3, BIDMC, Fox Chase, Stanford, U Colorado, Moffitt, MD Anderson, UPenn, and UW Seattle

but of course, all the programs are great...

 

[TommyGunn04]

silly? FAR superior? ok, i'll bite.

dude, when they were passing out that kool-aid you just went ahead and started downing by the pint! it is daft to think that everything is rosey in durham...

first, my point was that you are just not in the duke icu as an intern- there is a difference in acuity and learning. as i said you are at the va icu as an intern (not drh)...

As a current Duke resident and an enormous fan of the program, I'd be remiss not to comment here. I don't mean to hijack this thread and turn it into a Duke discussion, but there are several factual inaccuracies being propagated here, and several unfair assumpations as well. I could go on and on for pages about the virtues of this program, but I'll try to be brief.

But first, a preface to my comments. Ultimately, I think the important take-home message for these last days of the rank-list process should be that the nitty-gritty details of a program's rotation structure really should NOT be the determining factor in your rank list. In other words, I wouldn't worry about ICU time, number of call months, etc....every program is so different that you really can't make direct comparisons fairly, so you just end up making decisions based on inaccurate information and/or assumptions. This is crystal clear based on the numerous inaccuracies in some of the above posts. What's far more important, on the other hand, is how you're treated, how you're valued, what kind of support you have, what sort of an educational climate you're in, what kind of resources and funding support are available, and ultimately, what kind of people you'll be working with. And in this regard, it's impossible to go wrong with Duke. The culture here is quite different as compared so many of our peer / "ivory tower" institutions. I'd also like to add that despite what happened with the match, our intern class is incredibly strong, and will no doubt continue the tradition of excellence at Duke, both in terms of EBM strength, quality of clinical skills, and great fellowship matches. Just because someone had to scramble doesn't mean they're somehow bad candidates; it's incredibly difficult to match into certain competitive specialties!

For those who can't resist the nitty-gritty though (and I too was guilty of this during the match process) I should make some corrections here. First, Duke interns do NOT rotate through any VA ICU, as was stated incorrectly above. Here's the general critical care structure, roughly speaking:

-intern year = 4 weeks of Durham Regional ICU, 4 weeks of Duke CCU (the former being non-call and more procedure-based learning, and also incredibly well-liked by recent intern classes)
-JAR year = 6 weeks of Duke MICU, 4 weeks of Duke CCU (both overnight call; some may do a few weeks of VA CCU instead)
-SAR year = 4 weeks of VA MICU, and some do a few weeks of Duke or VA CCU as well, depending on your interests

What doesn't come through in this schedule though is the reasoning behind it, and the acuity of illness you'll face as an intern at Duke. Ultimately, an intern isn't ready to be in the Duke MICU, especially right out of 4th year. It's not at all uncommon for there to be 15 ventilated patients out of the 16 beds, 8 of whom are managed by each resident, while also doing consults on the floor/ED and carrying one of the code pagers. It's an unbelievable learning experience that would just be too much for the great majority of interns, no matter how good they might be. But this doesn't mean interns miss out on critical care. We have patients out on the wards that would be unit-worthy at most hospitals, and owing to the quality of our nursing staff and housestaff we take great care of these people and do so safely (but we could certainly use more MICU beds, which is true at most hospitals these days). In other words, it's not at all fair or accurate to assume that Duke interns somehow don't learn how to take care of sick patients just because they don't rotate through the Duke MICU. Rather, most of us would argue that we're better off with our current system, as the 2nd years gain much more from the ICU experience than they would as interns, and come out of the 2nd year more well-prepared to manage sick patients beyond just the intern-level. The capstone ICU experience, then, is the VA MICU one, whereby as a 3rd year you get to run the 8-bed MICU at the VA, with no fellow there at night. This is one of the most rewarding rotations for us, and is incredibly well-liked. And if you ask a fellowship program director about the clinical prowess of Duke residents, chances are they'll extoll it in several of the fellows they've matched from our program, and will often tell you how sought-after we are for this reason, in addition to our unsurpassed EBM training (this happens a lot on the fellowship interview trail actually).

I'm not in any way dismissing your feelings and intuitions about Duke, but it's important to have accurate information when making such an important decision. I'd also caution against any assumptions about the match at Duke this year. I've heard from several of those who are "in the know" that we actually had unprecedented interest in the program this year, especially in terms of people doing second-looks, writing first-choice letters, etc. The quality of applicants has apparently been quite phenomenal this year as well (from the mouth of several people who did the majority of the interviews for our program). Now, this shouldn't affect how anyone ranks us...you should always rank based on your own preference, regardless of how you think a program will rank you...but it's probably not wise to assume that this won't be a great match year for us, and to then use this assumption in your decision-making process. With the applicants I've met and the things I've heard, we're actually geared up for what is likely to be one of the best matches we've ever had! One of our largest weaknesses in the recent past, in my mind, is our failure to more actively discuss the countless strengths and unique features of our program. This year, that all changed, with the new website and re-designed interview process, and it looks like we're poised to reap the rewards.

So don't count Duke out!

And if anyone has specific questions about the program, don't hesitate to ask. I'd be happy to help.

(also, the comment about Duke not having a "GIM department" really isn't true; we have a division of general internal medicine that's housed within the Department of Medicine. While technically not a "department," most places I've been to don't have a GIM "department" either, and some of this is just semantics. I'm not sure what to say about GIM faculty leaving either...it's just not true! Every med center has some people come and go, but it's not like there's been some sort of mass exodus. In fact, we have a well-established, very respected GIM group, with several members doing incredible health services research, among other things. We also have an exploding hospitalist group, many of whom are teaching faculty for our program, and are among some of the most well-loved.)

 

[CaffeinePRN]

Last minute thoughts on BIDMC vs. Cornell? I've re-certified my rank list several times after changing around these two programs, and am interested in people's thoughts on the strength of the clinical training, reputation, and resident happiness at both. I'm interested in cards after residency.

Thanks!

 

[CanIMakeIt]

Thanks TommyGunn04 for that post.

Just my $0.02, programs do go unfilled for various reason and can happen to strong programs like Duke as well (Wash U went to scramble as well few year back...does it make a bad program? I don't see any shortcomings in their fellowship match currently). Some people are going to like some programs more than the others depending on what they experienced on the interview day. I don't think there is too much difference between most of the names being thrown here. Does anyone really think JHU, MGH et al, UCSF, Duke etc are going to prepare you any different? I presonally don't think so. Scramble or no scramble, there will always be superstars in all residencies and there will be underschievers (even at top programs).

Good luck to you all ... only 24 more hours before all this ends

Here is to getting into your #1 program

 

[Friendly]

Last minute thoughts on BIDMC vs. Cornell? I've re-certified my rank list several times after changing around these two programs, and am interested in people's thoughts on the strength of the clinical training, reputation, and resident happiness at both. I'm interested in cards after residency.

Thanks!

Well, they're both pedigree programs if you care about that stuff. I hadn't attended my Cornell interview when I interviewed with BIDMC, but many co-applicants and BIDMC residents from NYC programs said that ancillary staff tends to be weak down there - everything from "need to bribe the nurses with money to care for the patient" to "need to do lots of blood draws" etc. I'm all for total care but, if you're pager is going off every ten minutes as an intern, it's nice to have supportive ancillary staff. AS such, I went to my Cornell interview with such low expectations, but I actually loved it. I found Dr. Pecker to be very genuine, and a no nonsense kind of guy. Unofficially, I've heard that Cornell has some of the best ancillary staff in NYC and it's a little better run. Obviously, both BIDMC and Cornell have around 40-50% private patients. For cardiology, I did note that BIDMC tends not to take many of their own, and they breed a competitive bunch. Not sure how Cornell is in cardiology. If you're interested in bench cardiovascular research, it's much stronger at Cornell. BIDMC is weak overall in most areas of basic research. The biggest difference, however, is that most of the people interviewing at Cornell seemed to want to do anything to move to/stay in the city, and I could care less about that. BIDMC was a bit more heterogeneous, and the hours looked better. I hope that helps.

 

[dreamfox]

good luck everyone on your final decisions tomorrow. i'll post my final rank list tomorrow night!

 

[irina123]

hi guys,
this is sort of last minute, but i wasn't getting any replies earlier, so i'm hoping i'll be luckier this time around. I was wondering how you would rank these schools - i care about happy residents the most, but like everyone else, i want to have decent fellowships, awesome clinical experience, and great location. Thinking about going into heme/onc.
1) AECOM-Montefiore
2) UPitt
3) Emory
4) Mayo
5) USC
6) University of Wisconsin-Madison
7) UCLA-Harbor
8) Kaiser LA
9) Kaiser Oakland
10) Kaiser SF
11) Georgetown

Thanks so much guys!

 

[IMDoc24]

Hi all. While I completely agree with the thoughts to go with your gut/feel/etc, I'm still stuck between a couple of these. Mainly stuck on the order of 2 and 3 (I'm not getting a strong feeling from my #1, but I've gotten very strong vibes from both my #2 and #3). I loved both programs, but am wondering which will make my fellowship match experience easier as one more factor to consider in my final list for tomorrow... going into Cardiology.

Here goes:
1 Johns Hopkins Hospital
2 Emory
3 JHU/Bayview
4 Shands
5 GW
6 Washington Hospital Center

 

[IMDoc24]

Hi guys, I've been sort of watching from afar because you guys are in different league than I am, but I was wondering if you can help me with my list. I'm couple's matching with my husband (radiology) and he is letting me pick the order of the list, but I basically have to rank all the following. I'm interested in endocrinology and I just want to be happy with my husband these next few years. In no particular order:
Mayo Jacksonville
University of South Florida
Medical College of Georgia
University of Florida Gainesville
University of Florida Jacksonville
Eastern Virginia Medical School
University of Tennessee
Stony Brook
Mercer/Memorial Savannah
St. Lukes/Roosevelt
Mt. Sinai Miami
Robert Wood Johnson Camden
Winthrop

Personally a huge fan of the USF and UF programs... with Tampa > Gainesville as a city and UF > USF in terms of research, especially in critical care, with the exception of Hem/Onc (i.e. Moffitt). Mt. Sinai Miami Beach is strong for Cards, and getting better in that area. Also, you can't beat the view from the ICU... it's lovely. Mayo didn't invite me for an interview, and didn't apply to the others. Best of luck!

 

[gutonc]

hi guys,
this is sort of last minute, but i wasn't getting any replies earlier, so i'm hoping i'll be luckier this time around. I was wondering how you would rank these schools - i care about happy residents the most, but like everyone else, i want to have decent fellowships, awesome clinical experience, and great location. Thinking about going into heme/onc.
1) AECOM-Montefiore
2) UPitt
3) Emory
4) Mayo
5) USC
6) University of Wisconsin-Madison
7) UCLA-Harbor
8) Kaiser LA
9) Kaiser Oakland
10) Kaiser SF
11) Georgetown

Thanks so much guys!

Your list looks reasonable. I'd personally swap UW-M and AECOM. It hurt me not to rank Madison #1 (but my wife forbade me), it's a really great program.

 

[IMDoc24]

I,m looking for an internal medicine residency but I'm interested in pursuing cardiology. I need all the help I can get my options are

1. cleveland clinic found
2. Mount Sinai at Miami
3. Rush
4. Clevelanf Clinic flrida

thanks.

1. CCF (Cleveland)
2. Mt Sinai MB
3. CCF
Rush? (didn't interview there)

Clearly your strongest program, by far is CCF Cleveland, especially in Cardiology (ranked #1 in US News Cardiology/Cardiac Surgery, I think). Mt Sinai MB just got their best Cardiologist back (Lamas, see NEJM.org this week for his most recent article), take 2 of their own (approximately, not guaranteed) per year, though I don't think that they do as well outside their own program. CCF is a nice place with nice people, and also have their own Cards fellowship. Don't know Rush at all.

 

[irina123]

Your list looks reasonable. I'd personally swap UW-M and AECOM. It hurt me not to rank Madison #1 (but my wife forbade me), it's a really great program.

that's actually not my rank list. i didn't put it any specific order. and p.s. i did love madison as well.