Hey guys, I know that both of these schools are great, but which would you go to and why? I know they already have one from 2007 asking the same question, but a lot has changed in 7 years! Thanks everyone!
PCOM-Philly Vs DMU
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Are you from the north east, or want to end up there? Did you like the feeling of a completely set apart campus(with the nicest rec center imaginable), or urban academic hub right by the schuylkill river?
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PCOM has lots of affiliated residencies, so if you want to match something competitive like ortho surgery, pcom is your best bet.
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I think it comes down to do you want to live in Des Moines or Philly?
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This is a very understandable question, however a very futile question. It's like asking " what is the best color". Your dealing with the 2nd (DMU) and 3rd (PCOM) oldest/most established schools. There is no "wrong" answer. Neither one will limit your ability to specialize. Once again, geographical preference is important.
(I've heard a lot of people with a family say that DMU is a very good fit with good public schools and affordable housing.)
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/how-are-you-making-your-decision.1056362/
Look at how NuttyEngDude explains making a decision. May be helpful.
I've heard this to be true before, but how does one know it to be the truth? I confess, I really don't know what makes a clerkship or residency better than another.
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This. You can accomplish whatever you want at either.
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No one does. As a PCOM grad, there's no way I can compare my experience to the DMU experience. The only thing that's possibly able to be compared is the match lists and that is subjective.
How did you enjoy your time living in such a large city?
I have a couple good friends at DMU and they said that the school has been losing a lot of faculty recently and that some of the new people coming in are a little iffy. The school is also trying to save money by no longer having clinicians teach their clinical medicine course, which I wouldn't be very happy about. Knowing that, along with PCOM having better clerkship sites, I think you would have better opportunities at PCOM.
Good to know, Thanks.
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Could a current DMU student comment on this?
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Personal preference really. Des Moines is a great city. Relatively big (1/2 million) lots of good resaurants, very safe. How do you like cold/the Midwest? Do you have family close?
I'm from the south east, so I do not have family in either place. I don't mind the cold, would be interesting to live in a snowy place for once in my life. I'm not really familiar with the north east or Midwest.
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Well I've lived in the Midwest for most all my life. In general people are very friendly and nice. Pretty homogeneous racially. Des Moines is a pretty politically liberal area, although the Republican primarys draw a lot of the big name right wingers into town. If you are into outdoorsy stuff like biking, fishing, hunting, etc midwest is very into that. There is a massive bass pro shop very close to my house lol. Umm yeah, I hope that helps a little bit.
I can name off at least 7 professors that have left in the last year if you'd like. A 4th year student recently taught part of the respiratory section in physiology.
Oh wow...
Two words: Eagles, Flyers.
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I'm curious as to your source(s). I just checked with some clinical faculty at DMU, whom I personally know, and although they are admittedly somewhat removed from the basic science portion of the cirriculum, they are questioning the validity of this statement.
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A lot of the old DMU faculty went to New schools that offered chair positions basically.
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Wasn't that over a year ago, and WAY over dramatized on SDN (wait, on SDN!? How could such a thing happen?)
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Well I never
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Nah, that's what I figured jbay99 was alluding to; which turned out to be more benign than SDN made out to be (at least from what little I know about it). Not really directing it at anyone in particular.
I know it seemed like a long time ago that this issue came up on SDN but this is the first school year that all these new professors have filled in, some of them just now starting to teach their sections. Just passing on info about some problems that I learned about from current first and second-years.
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You wouldn't happen to have a (personal) bias against DMU by chance.....?
I have a person bias against them just because I said something negative? Come on. I'll keep quite then if no one wants to hear it.
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Just curious...
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A lot of misinformation in this thread. Which is better? Both. Neither. DMU and PCOM are among the best in the nation so either will provide you with awesome opportunities.
As far as faculty turnover, couple getting a new president and dean with the opening of a ton of osteo schools unfortunately left a lot of openings. New faculty are coming in, yes. As to them being iffy, all of that is subjective. Personally, i think they are much better than most of the people who left. By far. One professor in particular who left was loved by many and I was told that they were one of the best professors DMU had is it was horrible they were leaving. I got to have them and couldn't stand their teaching style. I thought they were horrible. Most of the new people are incredible and some suck. Some of the old people are incredible and some suck. Ultimately, there is no difference. My personal preference, having seen both many of the old and the new, I would take the new profs. But again, this is subjective. In addition, we have a new dean who is in-friggin-credible. For the lack of a better term, he is amazeballs. As for non-clinicians not teaching clinical med, i have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe you are eluding to the fact that experienced PAs are now teaching some of the basics, which is true. But if you are telling me that a PA with decades of experience can't teach a 1st year how to use a stethoscope, then go to PCOM because that is just arrogance. And clinical med is all first year which teaches you how to do the basics. All second year is taught by clinicians telling you how to do the specifics.
As for a 4th year teaching, yes. This is true. DMU has a "educational scholars" pathway which is basically like a medical education concentration. It is competitive, you have to prove you are qualified for it, but it teaches you the basics to become a medical educator. Part of this is teaching a couple classes. She taught us second years a couple classes as well. It isn't because they are short on good staff. It is because they offer an incredible opportunity if you want it.
All in all, both schools will provide you an excellent education. Neither better than the other for all practical purposes. PCOM may have more associated residencies. Could be important. But DMU has many year long third year rotation sites in michigan and ohio with a ton of residencies. Both schools will have problems. Both will have benefits. If you feel more comfortable at DMU but you are afraid of leaving PCOM due to opportunities, go to DMU. If you feel more comfortable at PCOM but you are afraid of leaving DMU due to opportunities, go to PCOM.
As far as faculty turnover, couple getting a new president and dean with the opening of a ton of osteo schools unfortunately left a lot of openings. New faculty are coming in, yes. As to them being iffy, all of that is subjective. Personally, i think they are much better than most of the people who left. By far. One professor in particular who left was loved by many and I was told that they were one of the best professors DMU had is it was horrible they were leaving. I got to have them and couldn't stand their teaching style. I thought they were horrible. Most of the new people are incredible and some suck. Some of the old people are incredible and some suck. Ultimately, there is no difference. My personal preference, having seen both many of the old and the new, I would take the new profs. But again, this is subjective. In addition, we have a new dean who is in-friggin-credible. For the lack of a better term, he is amazeballs. As for non-clinicians not teaching clinical med, i have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe you are eluding to the fact that experienced PAs are now teaching some of the basics, which is true. But if you are telling me that a PA with decades of experience can't teach a 1st year how to use a stethoscope, then go to PCOM because that is just arrogance. And clinical med is all first year which teaches you how to do the basics. All second year is taught by clinicians telling you how to do the specifics.
As for a 4th year teaching, yes. This is true. DMU has a "educational scholars" pathway which is basically like a medical education concentration. It is competitive, you have to prove you are qualified for it, but it teaches you the basics to become a medical educator. Part of this is teaching a couple classes. She taught us second years a couple classes as well. It isn't because they are short on good staff. It is because they offer an incredible opportunity if you want it.
All in all, both schools will provide you an excellent education. Neither better than the other for all practical purposes. PCOM may have more associated residencies. Could be important. But DMU has many year long third year rotation sites in michigan and ohio with a ton of residencies. Both schools will have problems. Both will have benefits. If you feel more comfortable at DMU but you are afraid of leaving PCOM due to opportunities, go to DMU. If you feel more comfortable at PCOM but you are afraid of leaving DMU due to opportunities, go to PCOM.
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it seems like even the most established (100+ yr old) DO schools still receive pretty significant complaints about issues one would think would be sorted out by now. Granted, every school has its problems, but I find student reviews of schools like PCOM, DMU, CCOM, etc kind of under-whelming. NOT terrible by any means, but nowhere near as great as I would expect a program with 100+ years of experience to be. I don't get this.
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I think its because their class sizes are too large. They have the resources for SOME, but not all, of their students to get a great education. If their class sizes were 100 instead of 200, or 300 in the case of PCOM, then they would be much better schools.
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I guess I was referring to rotation sites and clinical education. All of those schools listed above have a finite number of good rotation spots. If they trimmed their class sizes it would ensure everyone gets a decent clinical education.
Yea, I had good IM, EM, and Ob/gyn rotations, okay surgery and psych rotations, and pretty bad family med and peds rotations.
Where did you go Path?
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www.pcom.edu Find the OPTI link on the home page. Bottom left I think.
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