Penn vs. Duke vs. Michigan

[tenniseagle92]

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Hi everyone! Sorry to create yet another X v. Y v. Z thread, but I would love to have some opinions on this decision. I am currently deciding between these three great schools, and I feel very honored to even be in this position...that said, I'm stressing the f*** out about it.

Penn (100k total debt after graduation):
+ As a gay man, Philadelphia would definitely be the best location for me. I have lived in Boston my whole life and appreciate the active LGBT community here, and would love a med school location that maintains that. I'm also a city person at heart.
+ Loved the school and its students on interview day - honestly if costs were a non-issue, I would already be set on matriculating. 1.5 pre-clinical is great, the H/P/F doesn't really bother me at all
+ I have heard from many friends that Penn is a very social school, which appeals to me. I am a work hard, play hard kind of guy.
+ Might be considered slightly more prestigious than the other two? Honestly the minimal difference in prestige doesn't matter much to me
+ Not that interested in academics, but Penn has great matches into the specialties I am looking at
- Cost is most expensive, and I am from a low-income family so debt is not ideal. I also have around 40k in undergrad debt.
- A true P/F school would probably be preferable

Duke (20k total debt after graduation):
+ Love the curriculum at Duke. I was leery of HMS' and Vandy's new 1-year pre-clinicals because of the newness, but Duke's is tried and true.
+ Third year research year is very cool and would provide excellent opportunities to do meaningful research.
+ The student body is very tight knit, which I like a lot.
+ Cost is great. With the option to get a funded third year, it could be even cheaper...and part of this is due to a merit scholarship, which is an honor to have received.
- Durham is very sleepy to me...also the LGBT scene leaves much to be desired. There is a lesbian bar in Durham, but the nearest gay bar is in Raleigh (40 minutes away).
- I find the prospect of paying tuition to do research in third year to be very odd.
- I would need to buy a car, and I much prefer living in places where everything is walkable/accessible via public transit.

Michigan (75k total debt):
+ I really liked Ann Arbor and felt that it was much more lively than Durham. It also has a few LGBT-focused bars.
+ Merit scholarship really defrays the cost
+ The students I met here were very cool, and I enjoyed the time I spent here.
- I put Ann Arbor on my Weather app after getting accepted in October, and holy crap this place is a tundra.
- Not a huge fan of the 2-year pre-clinical, and I definitely prefer the mentality of taking boards after rotations.
- Cost is pretty hard to justify given Duke's offer (especially given that I would also probably buy a car to live here).

Overall I am very humbled by my choices, but I'm really not sure what direction I should be leaning. Penn is what stuck with me since interviewing and getting in was a total dream. That said, it is about 5 times more expensive (maybe more) than Duke, so I am unclear as to what I should do. I emailed Penn regarding Duke's offer, but I am operating under the assumption that they won't match/waver on their original financial aid statement.

 

[breakintheroof]

Congrats, @tenniseagle92!

I vote Penn. (Not sure if there's an actual poll since I'm on mobile.) The school and especially the location would make you happier than Duke, and it's not that much pricier than Michigan.

I might lean on their financial aid office. The scholarship letter asks recipients to withdraw promptly if not interested in matriculating so that money can go elsewhere. I don't know how true that is, but if you make it clear that you'd appreciate being first in line for it, maybe you'd have a shot?

 

[resiroth]

I think you'd be happy anywhere you end up, but penn and duke seem like the front runners.

As a minor point: Philadelphia isn't exactly warm during the winters.

See if penn will match duke's offer and if not then it's not like it's a tragedy to go to a top 10 school with 20k in debt 🙂. In general I think penn is much stronger than duke if you're interested in MD/MBA (obviously) as well as academic medicine. Otherwise I wouldn't worry about your options. Penn has a great match list partially because it's tied with WUSTL as accepting the highest stat applicants and crushes every school on the step 1 (even harvard, and it's not even close). Clearly you'll do well on the step so you should be able to match into whatever you want.

I bet you'd have your research year funded at duke, but it's a minor consideration.

I would say penn if they match duke's scholarship.
Penn if they don't match but you have a strong interest in their MBA/global health/academic medicine.
Duke if they don't match and you're not interested in Penn's mba etc. programs.

But really, even if you went to what seems like the worst of the 3 you'd get an amazing education so you really can't go wrong!

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I'd go with Penn. I'm a proponent of selecting the most comfortable location, even if the cost is more. Obviously, 80k is a lot of $, but I think it might be worth it given what you expressed in your initial post. However, as @breakintheroof said, you might have a shot at more $$!

Congrats and good luck!!!!

 

[jaga1603]

From reading your notes it sounds like Penn is where you really want to go. I know the additional debt is a concern, but like others have said I would gently prod the financial office at Penn. good luck!

 

[Earl Simmons]

Penn

 

[Cubsfan15]

Like others have said, call Penn and see if you can get a better deal. 80k is serious money - and given interest rates it's going to be more at the end of the day. But if you're not going into academics, you'll probably have no problem paying it back. So it sounds like Penn is the better fit for you.

 

[gastronome]

Seems like Penn is where your heart is! Philadelphia is also incredibly livable. I personally enjoyed Durham during Second Look, but its not for everyone. Congrats!

 

[Temerit]

Penn

 

[Australopithekus]

I'm also picking between Duke and Michigan, though my finances don't look nearly as nice. My thoughts:

Michigan sounds like it's out. Did you make it to second look? Do you have any real, non-financial reason to pick Michigan over Penn? With the prices so close, I think Penn is the clear winner.

So, comparing Duke to Penn: Aside from the P/F vs. H/P/F grading systems, which really won't matter at all after 1.5 years, everything except the cost points to Penn. Only having 20k in medical school debt would be amazing; however, 100k is still very low! You would have less debt than nearly all of your classmates. So, if you feel more comfortable in dense, urban Philly than sprawling, suburban Durham, I think the choice is pretty clear.

I voted for Penn.

 

[breakintheroof]

All of the posts here favor Penn. But the poll is currently 53% Duke.

Speak up, silent Blue Devil majority! Help @tenniseagle92 decide with your words, not just your votes!

I know Duke has earned some negative attention on this board lately, but you shouldn't be afraid to speak up...

 

[No Limits]

All of the posts here favor Penn. But the poll is currently 53% Duke.

Speak up, silent Blue Devil majority! Help @tenniseagle92 decide with your words, not just your votes!

I know Duke has earned some negative attention on this board lately, but you shouldn't be afraid to speak up...

I'd imagine the cost difference has something to do with that. I'm usually a proponent of the idea of going to the cheapest school but in this case I'd vote for Penn because he'd be much happier there. Congrats @tenniseagle92 !

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I can also speak to having gay friends not feeling comfortable coming out while undergrads at Duke.

would it be amazing to get out of med school with 20K of debt? absolutely, but is 80k more going to destroy you? I wouldn't think so. if your happiness for 4 years is worth 80k (I'd suspect it is), then go to Penn! congrats!

 

[jqpub]

The assumptions about DukeMed are pretty impressive in this thread. Perhaps the OP should check with the Duke Health Sciences Gay-Straight Alliance http://dukegsa.wix.com/duke-health-gsa and DukeMedPride http://www.dukedavisoncouncil.org/?p=370 as well as the Center for Sexual and Gender Diversity at Duke University http://studentaffairs.duke.edu/csgd .

 

[jqpub]

You are correct, SouthernSurgeon. I have no affiliation with Duke. Nor, I believe do you. Any conclusions either of us would reach about the life of a gay medical student at Duke would involve some pretty significant assumptions and very anecdotal evidence. I am certain that you take a lot of care, as a resident, to gather all the data before reaching a conclusion that could affect the life of a patient. The OP is looking for advice as to which medical school to attend, and how much debt to incur. Doesn't it make sense for him to contact the organizations that represent this particular interest at the medical school, to find out more directly what life is like there? That is what my post said. Nothing more.

 

[xo7]

As a Duke undergrad, I really disagree with what has been said about the Duke environment regarding tolerance. I have quite a number of out gay friends and there are many LGBTQ events strongly supported and attended by the entire Duke community, such as Love=Love day, the Durham pride parade, etc. North Carolina is a swing state and not "one of the most conservative states in the country"--at least not in the Triangle area. Sure there may be conservative and religious people in very rural areas but that is true of many states.

 

[GoBlueDevils]

@tenniseagle92 Congrats on all of your acceptances! I can think of a few people who would be happy to talk with you about their experience as gay men at Duke Med and in Durham. PM me if that's helpful or with any other questions.

Edit: Also LOL...the Duke health sciences gay-straight alliance event calendar. April 2015: no events. Mar 2015: no events. Feb 2015: no events. Jan 2015: no events.

Not sure what calendar you're talking about @SouthernSurgeon, but the most recent Duke Med Pride event was on 4/7. The president of Duke University Hospitals came to talk with us.

 

[tenniseagle92]

First of all, thank you to everyone for your comments! I expected there to be a divide based on the price differential and how I feel about the schools. The financial situation is obviously making my decision less clear-cut, though I did lean on the financial aid office at Penn a bit as @breakintheroof and others suggested. I went to Duke's SLW and will be at Penn Preview this weekend, so hopefully next week I'll have all the info I need to make a choice.

Also, just to clarify a bit: the vibe I got at Duke was one of LGBT-friendliness, at least within the med school (can't speak to the undergrad because I have no experience there). I don't think I would feel uncomfortable at all being an LGBT member of the Duke Med family; rather, my issue is that I might not find enough of what I'm used to socially in Durham. For me, Duke presents almost no problems (I think both Penn and Duke are awesome as schools)...the real issue I have is Philly v. Durham, and for me Philly wins based off of the urban vibe I'm used to.

 

[resiroth]

I would hesitate to call Durham conservative given this "The area is predominantly Democratic, and has voted for the Democratic Party's presidential candidate in every election since the city's founding in 1869." from wiki, but as you said that doesn't mean Philadelphia isn't a better location for you otherwise.

In the end I think you're approaching this very thoroughly and I hope Penn comes through financially as that would put the matter to rest.

 

[tenniseagle92]

Final update: After attending Penn Preview, getting my financial aid offer from Penn increased, and investing a lot of thought into this decision, I have ultimately decided that Penn is the place for me! I can't imagine a better place to get a medical education; thank you so much to everyone for their support!

See you next year @breakintheroof ! (And maybe @No Limits ..?)