Serial/Criminal Minds WW - Game Thread

[Animal Midwife]

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currently something like this

Samac
Please
AM
Genny
Cray

Cubs
Bob
Vis
Stagg

Mel
Mkg

Why is please so high and Vis so low?

 

[Crayola227]

I didn't like your votes on the first day lacking any logic at the time and then shakey logic later. for example, your logic against me was a lack of contribution when you had barely been on the thread yourself
and since then, I'm just not seeing arguments that have much like
scrutiny behind them imo
its felt a little like you're pointing out things that are easy to, instead of looking harder for wolves

I hate pot kettle arguments, they're rarely useful. It would be one thing if a 3rd villager voted you doing something Stagg was doing too and not faulting him for it, but voting a player for something you yourself are doing is common for villagers, maybe even more so than a wolf as wolves often try to avoid appearance of hypocrisy and can easily cite a fake reason to vote someone they know can't be applied to themselves.

It makes no sense for a village Stagg to vote himself or abstain from assigning wolf points to a player for doing the same thing he might be doing. And it doesn't make that much sense for a wolf Stagg not to avoid looking hypocritical.

Less active players often still need to vote their wolf reads for activity anyway.

And I know how problematic it is I support someone voting someone for activity is rn (although I've stepped up after a few busy days), my issue isn't that I agree with Stagg. The issue is I hate the hypocrisy argument. It's rarely valid the way you're using it

It's bad logic and that pings me so, so hard.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2: Don't Look Too Long into the Abyss

cubs ()
Stagg (1) - AM
samac (1) - Mel
Mel (1) - vetschoolsplz
mkg (2) - genny, TME
TME (2) - Visc, Stagg
Bob (1) - cubs
Visc (1) - samac

9/12

Has yet to vote: @Crayola227 @BobLoblaw78 @mkg323

Vote closes at 10pm, TODAY, 11/14 (~6.25 hours)

 

[Crayola227]

Cannot even believe I'm caught up!!!!

 

[mkg323]

currently something like this

Samac
Please
AM
Genny
Cray

Cubs
Bob
Vis
Stagg

Mel
Mkg

and mel is down there because you think I tried to save him yesterday? or is there more?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Why is please so high and Vis so low?

please just feels like village please, she's less active but when she is engaging I can follow the logic well

Vis in my low-neutrals clump, she is voting for me which is not helping how I feel about her but I feel worse about other people
I've also noticed vis changed votes a lot D1 - I know you mentioned you haven't seen the backing down in arguments that you usually see from wolf vis, but the vote jumping has in some ways reminded me of that

 

[mkg323]

yeet stagg

this is a pancake household, no waffles allowed

 

[Animal Midwife]

yeet stagg

this is a pancake household, no waffles allowed

Is this a serious vote?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

and mel is down there because you think I tried to save him yesterday? or is there more?

I never feel good about mel, and when I did my VCA today the fact that the tied wagons seemed to sit comfortably until the end of the day when he appeared on the board as a viable wagon made me feel worse. that may or may not ultimately relate to you attempting to start the AM wagon, but the possible connection makes me suspicious

 

[mkg323]

Is this a serious vote?

as serious as a heart attack

 

[cubsrule4e]

Is this a serious vote?

It irks me that she and bob were 2 of the last 3 that hadnt voted... and usually Bob is throwing them out early on.

 

[mkg323]

I never feel good about mel, and when I did my VCA today the fact that the tied wagons seemed to sit comfortably until the end of the day when he appeared on the board as a viable wagon made me feel worse. that may or may not ultimately relate to you attempting to start the AM wagon, but the possible connection makes me suspicious

well hear me out, that all happened, but it wasn't little ol' me that tried to save mel. why not stagg, who voted for alley and got the wafflefest going?

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

well hear me out, that all happened, but it wasn't little ol' me that tried to save mel. why not stagg, who voted for alley and got the wafflefest going?

you'll notice that stagg is also at the wolfier end of the list

 

[Animal Midwife]

as serious as a heart attack

Okay. Is there reasoning outside of him waffling?

 

[samac]

well hear me out, that all happened, but it wasn't little ol' me that tried to save mel. why not stagg, who voted for alley and got the wafflefest going?

Staggs also could have made a 5 way tie, but I had moved to cray to save myself at that point.
I don’t know if a wolf would avoid all viable wagons at that point.

 

[Animal Midwife]

It irks me that she and bob were 2 of the last 3 that hadnt voted... and usually Bob is throwing them out early on.

Yeah, I've been watching that.

 

[mkg323]

Okay. Is there reasoning outside of him waffling?

I feel like he's been vague, or says he'll explain later and then just doesn't. He's also said he's very concerned about Mel... but isn't even voting there.

Staggs also could have made a 5 way tie, but I had moved to cray to save myself at that point.
I don’t know if a wolf would avoid all viable wagons at that point.

I mean making a tie is risky for wolves, because the tie maker could die. or maybe one of the other options was a wolf, who knows

 

[Melchizedek]

Cubs, AM, Mkg, TME
Genny, Visc
neutral
Stagg, VSLMIP
Cray + Samac or Bob

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Cubs, AM, Mkg, TME
Genny, Visc
neutral
Stagg, VSLMIP
Cray + Samac or Bob

which direction does this list go

 

[samac]

which direction does this list go

I think from least to most sus and I’m a little shook by that list.

 

[mkg323]

I think from least to most sus and I’m a little shook by that list.

ngl I'm just as surprised as you are

 

[Melchizedek]

Unvote Samac
Vote Cray



Cray's logic doesn't track.

She was considering bob and I in a pack, but I've been loud about bob being wolfy, I usually go for the sweep and wouldn't bus unnecessarily.

The whole post about stagg and VSLMIP was just circular logic. Her point about stagg and why he shouldn't be considered wolfy by VSLMIP, could be applied directly to her reason for giving VSLMIP sketch points.

IDK Cray feels different this game. I'm okay with this vote.

Could also go for a bob vote or samac vote, I feel like there is a wolf there.

 

[Animal Midwife]

I feel like he's been vague, or says he'll explain later and then just doesn't. He's also said he's very concerned about Mel... but isn't even voting there.

Do you have updated thoughts on genny?

 

[genny]

No one made a big deal of genny doing it because "genny loves ties and chaos."

Only in certain controlled situations. 😉

 

[genny]

I think from least to most sus and I’m a little shook by that list.

Why? because you're at the wrong end?

 

[genny]

Someone asked me which of the 4 people up on D1 I thought was a wolf, and now I can't find that post after the flood of Cray likes in my notifications. So. I don't necessarily think that there was a wolf with 2 votes near close. I feel like there would have been more frenzy to change it, so my current working theory is all village.

If someone magically gave me info that one of the four was a wolf, Samac's moves at the end of D1 best fit with a wolf trying to appear village and self pres without outing the rest of the pack. But I think village Samac would act the same.

 

[genny]

Cannot even believe I'm caught up!!!!

And now you vote?

 

[mkg323]

Do you have updated thoughts on genny?

mixed feelings atm. I agree with her thoughts on bob, but obviously, I don't agree with her vote

 

[Crayola227]

Unvote Samac
Vote Cray



Cray's logic doesn't track.

She was considering bob and I in a pack, but I've been loud about bob being wolfy, I usually go for the sweep and wouldn't bus unnecessarily.

The whole post about stagg and VSLMIP was just circular logic. Her point about stagg and why he shouldn't be considered wolfy by VSLMIP, could be applied directly to her reason for giving VSLMIP sketch points.

IDK Cray feels different this game. I'm okay with this vote.

Could also go for a bob vote or samac vote, I feel like there is a wolf there.

First of all, when I named you and Bob I said that was my knee jerk and I believe that was before I was totally caught up. Secondly, my naming a POE or wolf suspects is very rarely me "considering them in a pack." That has never been the way I approach analysis especially before any wolves have flipped.

Also I'm not understanding what you're saying about my giving sketch points to Vetschools. I'm not assigning wolf points on activity and haven't said that I am. Has Stagg said he's voting someone for hypocrisy??

From where I'm sitting yours is the logic not tracking.

 

[Crayola227]

Unvote Samac
Vote Cray



Cray's logic doesn't track.

She was considering bob and I in a pack, but I've been loud about bob being wolfy, I usually go for the sweep and wouldn't bus unnecessarily.

The whole post about stagg and VSLMIP was just circular logic. Her point about stagg and why he shouldn't be considered wolfy by VSLMIP, could be applied directly to her reason for giving VSLMIP sketch points.

IDK Cray feels different this game. I'm okay with this vote.

Could also go for a bob vote or samac vote, I feel like there is a wolf there.

Almost always any issues with compatibility in my POE has had to be pointed out by others.

 

[Crayola227]

And now you vote?

Thinking about it

 

[BobLoblaw78]

What a spectacularly un-insightful list of reads. What's you're current POE? Top 3 or 4 please.



Of those in the 4-way tie, who do you feel is most likely to be a wolf?

You, TME. Maybe Cubs. Not Mel yet. Want to see what he has done with his day today

Cray is out of it. Samac is worse. When I started looking comparability she looked compatible with too many and other things she said didn’t look great in addition to the end vote.

 

[samac]

Why? because you're at the wrong end?

No. Because those other reads are so far off from where I’m at.
Like I’ve said, I think cray is village. Those top 4 are all not really village reads.
I’m not even confident in AM though it seems everyone else is.

Someone asked me which of the 4 people up on D1 I thought was a wolf, and now I can't find that post after the flood of Cray likes in my notifications. So. I don't necessarily think that there was a wolf with 2 votes near close. I feel like there would have been more frenzy to change it, so my current working theory is all village.

If someone magically gave me info that one of the four was a wolf, Samac's moves at the end of D1 best fit with a wolf trying to appear village and self pres without outing the rest of the pack. But I think village Samac would act the same.

Or samac’s moves for with a villager who wanted to stay on Mel, but 4 minutes to close gave up on tie chicken.
If I was wolf I wouldn’t have changed from Mel to cray to alley. I would have just let alley fall.

Edit: I meant to say cray fall.

 

[Stagg737]

Imma channel the traits of my family tree and bring some Pbpa shortly, you all have been warned...

I realized I skipped a page previously when I asked you why, but I do want to address this:

samac- ok her TONE seems normal but I'm not jamming with her logic trains? I felt better about her the closer we got to yeet but I'm not convinced
stagg- yo what in heck. what was your logic for your vote on me? And then voting alley for seemingly no other reason than chaos imo??

I gave my reasoning for my vote on you earlier. I'll repeat it further down, but basically felt like you were coasting early. Switched off of you because I didn't have strong feelings about you and wanted to see more interactions from you. Moved my vote to Alley because several people said they felt Alley was off (which I agreed with early on) and Samac straight up said that she was certain she saw Alley's wolf tell. If Alley flipped wolf we'd have some solid info for later as she'd already interacted with a lot of people. Several questions for YOU:

1. I had solid reasoning for voting for Alley and I gave the synopsis. I enjoy chaos, but why are you saying that I had no other reasons when I had several?
2. You're finding me very wolfy for the above reason when Samac is the one who put the deciding vote on Alley. Why aren't you more suspicious of her?
3. Samac said she saw Alley's tell but stayed off her because she said she felt bad voting for her D1. Why aren't you questioning Samac's move to hammer Alley when she'd previously been so hesitant to vote there?

I don’t like staggs shakey, imo, logic on votes. Esp when that logic (for me) is based on me not participating, glass houses and all that

My logic for voting you was because you weren't participating meaningfully other than 1 or 2 posts which seemed like arguments for appearance of wolf-hunting. Not sure what shaky logic you're talking about since I gave such minimal reasoning D1, but would love you to quote my shaky logic.

 

[Stagg737]

I didn't like your votes on the first day lacking any logic at the time and then shakey logic later. for example, your logic against me was a lack of contribution when you had barely been on the thread yourself
and since then, I'm just not seeing arguments that have much like
scrutiny behind them imo
its felt a little like you're pointing out things that are easy to, instead of looking harder for wolves

Again, point out my shaky logic. As I said, you weren't giving what I would consider meaningful contribution towards wolf-hunting but appeared to try to. What further logic would you like from my arguments? And I'm pointing out things I find relevant, sometimes they're easy to see, sometimes they're more nuanced. The latter I can give when I don't have massive migraines and 3 year-olds throwing up in my mouth **like I did Friday and Saturday**.

**edited

 

[Stagg737]

He didn't indicate he forgot Chaos was playing, just that it didn't matter for his joke

I misunderstood that then, having seen more and rereading a bit, feeling less comfortable with Cubs but wouldn't vote there at this point.

I feel the mkg Mel connection and it worries me

I wanted to look into a Mel connection also, but I don't think it was with MKG. Pointing it out I could see Mel wolfing with a few people, but idk if I'm actually seeing something or just picking up his baseline sketch.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

I'm also more concerned about Mel right now. Will explain later, but would like to see some answers from people first.

And my explanation was uninspiring?

For now I will

unvote samac
vote Bob

Not village piling her by any means yet but shes a wide village read and trying to push there isnt going to be productive. TME is still near my top, but bob is starting to ping more. Aside from the one read list and then an ISO post of mkg it doesnt feel like he's pushing like normal. He says mkg TME and pleasy are just "in the background" for him, but then didnt address or try to push any of them directly. Then almost immediately came out with a village read on mkg after being pressed by AM, felt like he kind of thought he needed to take a stance immediately on the issue or risk AM coming after him. And he knows once AM is on him he's in trouble 😆

If I’m pinging you Bc I’m afk, fine. I see that and not much I could do about that.

What exactly is pinging you?

yeet Vis
Do I have a good answer why? No
Does she just feel off? Yes.
Did I also work yesterday, played DnD today, and trying to get a house read for a dog? Also yes.

Samac seems inconsistent. This is a surprise to me since she has seemed village. So a vote like this worries me more

I was totally wigged by the village reads on me, but then Zenge flipped village. And I can understand if samac is partly trusting the read from a flipped villager. You can argue he's wrong but not that he was lying

They wigged me too. I had to go back and reread to make sure I didn’t miss anything. Today seems more back to norm for you

Frowny face.

You feel like you have a feel for wolf AM vs village AM? Do share your wisdom.

Yes. I’d rather not give it away. But kick myself ever since previous game when things stuck out and I chose to ignore bc “it’s just AM”

What do you mean by up and down?

Inconsistent. Seems one direction than another. Seems to be going in a direction I agree then switches. Seems aimless in a way that reads like a wolf seeing which direction village likes and wants her to go

currently something like this

Samac
Please
AM
Genny
Cray

Cubs
Bob
Vis
Stagg

Mel
Mkg

Again. Mine were not very informative?

Almost always any issues with compatibility in my POE has had to be pointed out by others.

This. Last game I felt good about seeing compatability. Even if wrong. I like finding single first. Trying to go back and figure out compatibility sent me into a tailspin. Took me from smaller POE and made me double it. And paranoid about too many at once

 

[samac]

And my explanation was uninspiring?

If I’m pinging you Bc I’m afk, fine. I see that and not much I could do about that.

What exactly is pinging you?

Samac seems inconsistent. This is a surprise to me since she has seemed village. So a vote like this worries me more

They wigged me too. I had to go back and reread to make sure I didn’t miss anything. Today seems more back to norm for you

Yes. I’d rather not give it away. But kick myself ever since previous game when things stuck out and I chose to ignore bc “it’s just AM”

Inconsistent. Seems one direction than another. Seems to be going in a direction I agree then switches. Seems aimless in a way that reads like a wolf seeing which direction village likes and wants her to go

Again. Mine were not very informative?

This. Last game I felt good about seeing compatability. Even if wrong. I like finding single first. Trying to go back and figure out compatibility sent me into a tailspin. Took me from smaller POE and made me double it. And paranoid about too many at once

I may be inconsistent but I assure you that is more village than wolf.
I would be consistent if I was wolf.

Part of me is toying with Visc and AM in a pack together. I don’t know if they’d be ballsy enough to sit on TME together as a pack.

 

[Stagg737]

I feel like he's been vague, or says he'll explain later and then just doesn't. He's also said he's very concerned about Mel... but isn't even voting there.

Are you updated on the thread? I gave several reads and have been doing more today. I'm still waiting to see answers to a question before addressing a certain point, so you'll just have to wait for that one. I am concerned about Mel and...GASP...I'm not voting there. Maybe it's because there are other people I'm more concerned about and/or think we'll get more info by keeping him alive. Seriously, this is low hanging shade you're throwing and just participating to appear to be hunting. If you're really village, hunt better.

 

[Stagg737]

Someone asked me which of the 4 people up on D1 I thought was a wolf, and now I can't find that post after the flood of Cray likes in my notifications. So. I don't necessarily think that there was a wolf with 2 votes near close. I feel like there would have been more frenzy to change it, so my current working theory is all village.

If someone magically gave me info that one of the four was a wolf, Samac's moves at the end of D1 best fit with a wolf trying to appear village and self pres without outing the rest of the pack. But I think village Samac would act the same.

That was me. So are you saying you don't think any of the wolves were at serious risk of being voted yesterday (ie. had votes on them)? If not those 4, do you think there's any meaningful info to glean from the D1 VCA yet?

 

[Stagg737]

You, TME. Maybe Cubs. Not Mel yet. Want to see what he has done with his day today

Cray is out of it. Samac is worse. When I started looking comparability she looked compatible with too many and other things she said didn’t look great in addition to the end vote.

Slightly better. Why me? Why Cubs? Why not Mel "yet"?

And my explanation was uninspiring?

As I said above, I'm still waiting for a post to be answered before commenting. If it isn't by tonight I'll share thoughts on it.

Again. Mine were not very informative?

No. TME at least gave a list in order from most to least (or the other way) wolfy, so at least we can gather that. You gave a list of everyone's name in no particular order with hedgey and or vague statements. That make sit seem like you were trying to participate without planting a flag anywhere. Your short list above is more helpful than your long list, but still not overly helpful other than your thoughts on Samac. Again, lack of meaningful contributions is sketchy.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

It irks me that she and bob were 2 of the last 3 that hadnt voted... and usually Bob is throwing them out early on.

I actually have been notorious about throwing them out late. I think I have thrown them out early two or three games. Under duress but trying to change for the better (?)

But this time I think I have said that life is busy a couple of times.

This just feels contrived. Esp as someone that claims to remember my play

Cubs, AM, Mkg, TME
Genny, Visc
neutral
Stagg, VSLMIP
Cray + Samac or Bob

Cubs being village makes me think you know something I don’t. Fine. MKG reads village to me so fine again. But I hear village sus and makes me wonder. TME too start to really make me wonder. Cray being low after today is third puzzler. AM is wolf side of neutral right where she usually is.

With all of that, I almost feel better at the bottom than the top

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Yeet stagg

 

[Stagg737]

If I was wolf I wouldn’t have changed from Mel to cray to alley. I would have just let alley fall.

Edit: I meant to say cray fall.

Why do you think Cray would have been the one to go?

 

[WildZoo]

3 year-olds throwing up in my mouth

😱😱😱

 

[BobLoblaw78]

Slightly better. Why me? Why Cubs? Why not Mel "yet"?




As I said above, I'm still waiting for a post to be answered before commenting. If it isn't by tonight I'll share thoughts on it.




No. TME at least gave a list in order from most to least (or the other way) wolfy, so at least we can gather that. You gave a list of everyone's name in no particular order with hedgey and or vague statements. That make sit seem like you were trying to participate without planting a flag anywhere. Your short list above is more helpful than your long list, but still not overly helpful other than your thoughts on Samac. Again, lack of meaningful contributions is sketchy.

You have been least active. Then I didn’t get great feels.

TME was very bad and I felt embarrassed when I went back and to check compatibility and realized TME was middle of my list. Chalk it up to not sticking out. Was under my radar.

Not Cubs yet bc he gets sis’s so easily. I try to resist just following others thoughts. Usually he gets sus for jokes or whatever. I kinda empathize with that. His logic has been way off. And seems to be straight lying about some comments that obv weren’t jokes. Etc. Mel and him could be compatible but can’t see Mel having him tops on his list. Confusing when I think too much. WIFOM

My list was most village to most wolfy

 

[Stagg737]

Unvote TME
Vote Bob

Both Mkg and Bob feel like better options than TME right now. V-SPizzLe is also up there on my list. Have 1 or 2 other people up there but need to do a deeper dive on them.

 

[Crayola227]

No. Because those other reads are so far off from where I’m at.
Like I’ve said, I think cray is village. Those top 4 are all not really village reads.
I’m not even confident in AM though it seems everyone else is.

Or samac’s moves for with a villager who wanted to stay on Mel, but 4 minutes to close gave up on tie chicken.
If I was wolf I wouldn’t have changed from Mel to cray to alley. I would have just let alley fall.

Edit: I meant to say cray fall.

This is true. While I am suspicious of samac somewhat based on posts, this is a compelling point in my view.

 

[Stagg737]

Day 2: Don't Look Too Long into the Abyss (Unofficial)

cubs ()
Stagg (3) - AM, Mkg, Bob
samac ()
Mel (1) - vetschoolsplz
mkg (2) - genny, TME
TME (1) - Visc
Bob (2) - cubs, Stagg
Visc (1) - samac
Cray (1) - Mel

11/12

Has yet to vote: @Crayola227

Vote closes at 10pm, TODAY, 11/14 (~4.5 hours)

 

[Stagg737]

You have been least active. Then I didn’t get great feels.

So you're voting me purely based on feels?