Serial/Criminal Minds WW - Game Thread

[Stagg737]

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@Animal Midwife updated POE? Particularly curious what your thoughts are on my current wagon.

 

[Crayola227]

Again, point out my shaky logic. As I said, you weren't giving what I would consider meaningful contribution towards wolf-hunting but appeared to try to. What further logic would you like from my arguments? And I'm pointing out things I find relevant, sometimes they're easy to see, sometimes they're more nuanced. The latter I can give when I don't have massive migraines and 3 year-olds throwing up in my mouth **like I did Friday and Saturday**.

**edited

Lol so much to look forward to having spawn

 

[Viscernable]

W

This made me feel a little worse about bob, in very much a saying things to be here but not gonna put out any controversial opinions type of way
TME is feeling more village to me as the day goes on, I'm following logic pretty will in posts, but I need to go back and look at last game I played where TME was wolfing bc I think I also village read TME for the majority of that game.
I still feel ok about my mel vote, no one else is really jumping out to me as a more wolfy candidate

What are you seeing about Mel?

 

[Crayola227]

Day 2: Don't Look Too Long into the Abyss (Unofficial)

cubs ()
Stagg (3) - AM, Mkg, Bob
samac ()
Mel (1) - vetschoolsplz
mkg (2) - genny, TME
TME (1) - Visc
Bob (2) - cubs, Stagg
Visc (1) - samac
Cray (1) - Mel

11/12

Has yet to vote: @Crayola227

Vote closes at 10pm, TODAY, 11/14 (~4.5 hours)

Eh gonna spitball some thoughts. Everyone is pinging me, but if I had to trust anyone I would say AM, samac, TME, genny, Visc, feel "best" to me now.

Stagg's last few posts feel pretty good too, but like Cubs and Mel he's someone you have to keep a high sus level on, on principle. Def don't feel comfy enough with mkg or Bob to want to vote alongside them and seal Stagg's fate.

Mel being on my Richard these last couple days feels pretty bad, and I feel like these days Mel plays mind games with me that makes it ridic hard for me to feel good about voting him. Like, he tried to pocket me last game we were w/v, but then again we have also both villaged and gotten along. Is a wolfy Mel wanting to WIFOM and not try to pocket me this game? Is this a sign of a village Mel by contrast? The head game makes it impossible for me to make any conclusion except that his logic on me is more awful than usual when he's wrong about me. I feel unsure enough about vetschools not to want to vote with her.

Mkg and Bob feel the worst, but is this my overreactivity to these particular sketchy newer players? Newer as far as everyone's age in WW games go, I recognize they're not exactly virgin noobs anymore.

 

[Crayola227]

### yeet Mkg ###

Like I said, feel decent about genny and TME. Plus an mkg flip could give me data on at least 4 players if not more (genny, TME, Mel, mkg).

 

[Viscernable]

Frowny face.

You feel like you have a feel for wolf AM vs village AM? Do share your wisdom.

Interesting catch. I feel like AM and Bob are bad at reading each other, so I’m a bit skeptical that he apparently has specific wolf AM tells now

 

[Viscernable]

Unvote vmpizzle

Vote Alley

Does stagg rely on TWTBW WiFoM a lot? Because my main village point on him is this last-second switch onto the leading villager wagon. Just doesn’t seem necessary for a wolf to draw that much attention to themself unless panic-bailing on a soft bus, which I don’t see stagg doing.

 

[Viscernable]

I didn't like your votes on the first day lacking any logic at the time and then shakey logic later. for example, your logic against me was a lack of contribution when you had barely been on the thread yourself
and since then, I'm just not seeing arguments that have much like
scrutiny behind them imo
its felt a little like you're pointing out things that are easy to, instead of looking harder for wolves

Ehhh. I can see a wolf making a lot of other bull****, lazy reasons to throw suspicion on someone other than having to call them out on something they’re doing themself. Why remind village of the idea that lowposting=wolfy just to throw suspicion on one villager?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

So you're voting me purely based on feels?

No. You were in my POE D1 but Cray had me worried with even lower posting. Cray has done way better. I didn’t like your D1 close either. Then your statements seemed uncaring and had me feeling that you weren’t village aligned. Now it seems like you are reaching for low hanging fruit vs actual solving.

Keeping with you to see. I don’t want to be too reactionary. TME is worrying me. Cubs and Mel as well. Samac too. AM and pleasy not great. I think I have pretty much alienated everyone I that I can tonight. Visc seems village-neutral to me. MKG as well and everyone thinks otherwise so that bugs.

 

[Viscernable]

yeet mkg

for previously mentioned reasons. Additional notes: a level of "memeing" that is reminiscent of RvB, and the AM vote push seems consistent with some of the ideas i remember discussing in wolfchat when there was end of cycle panic (mkg tends towards wanting big moves like fake claims and waffles). If mkg is indeed wolf, I think it's possible that the panic could have been due to Mel becoming a viable wagon.

Huh these points are really interesting. I need to remember to reread mkg’s and TME’s posts

 

[Viscernable]

Spoiler: D1 Vote tracker

TME (1) - AM
Bob (1) - samac
VSLIMPBIZKIT (1) - Alley
Alley (1) - Cray
Samac (1) - Cubs
Bob(0) -
Alley (2) - Cray, Samac
Mkg (1) - Vis
VSLIMPBIZKIT (0) -
Zenge (1) - Alley
Cray (1) - Bob
Mkg (0) -
Samac (2) - Cubs, Vis
Cray (2) - Bob, Mel
Samac (1) - Cubs
Genny (1) - Mkg
TME (2) - AM, Vis
Samac (2) - Cubs, genny
Mkg (1) - TME
Alley (1) - Cray
[8:35] Mel (1) - samac
[8:39] Mel (2) - samac, zenge
[9:03] VSLIMPBIZKIT (1) - Stagg
[9:18] Zenge (0) -
AM (1) - Alley
[9:56] Mel (1) - Zenge
Cray (3) - Bob, Mel, Samac
[9:56] VSLIMPBIZKIT (0) -
Alley (2) - Cray, Stagg
[9:58] Cray (2) - Bob, Mel
Alley (3) - Cray, Stagg, Samac

some interesting points:
Mel was that last wagon to even make it on the board, very late in the cycle. about 10 minutes later Mkg started talking about yeeting AM (could be coincidence, could be intentional stoking of vote movement).
Never in any wagon: myself, mkg
never voted: VSLIMPBIZKIT

I can see the logic of this but I have doubts that mkg would use that method to try to get votes moving. It was a really unexpected and distracting suggestion, and I feel it drew attention away from the usual last-minute deliberation and waffles. More of a “I’m fine with the status quo” wolf move than anything.

 

[Crayola227]

Ehhh. I can see a wolf making a lot of other bull****, lazy reasons to throw suspicion on someone other than having to call them out on something they’re doing themself. Why remind village of the idea that lowposting=wolfy just to throw suspicion on one villager?

Yep. This was part of what I was saying earlier. So not seeing what Mel was seeing as not making sense.

 

[Viscernable]

please just feels like village please, she's less active but when she is engaging I can follow the logic well

Vis in my low-neutrals clump, she is voting for me which is not helping how I feel about her but I feel worse about other people
I've also noticed vis changed votes a lot D1 - I know you mentioned you haven't seen the backing down in arguments that you usually see from wolf vis, but the vote jumping has in some ways reminded me of that

“A lot”

 

[cubsrule4e]

Keeping with you to see. I don’t want to be too reactionary. TME is worrying me. Cubs and Mel as well. Samac too. AM and pleasy not great. I think I have pretty much alienated everyone I that I can tonight. Visc seems village-neutral to me. MKG as well and everyone thinks otherwise so that bugs.

This reads to me as "somehow I picked up some sketch with my play so far, I need to be vague, deflect, stall for time, and regroup."

 

[Viscernable]

The whole post about stagg and VSLMIP was just circular logic. Her point about stagg and why he shouldn't be considered wolfy by VSLMIP, could be applied directly to her reason for giving VSLMIP sketch points.

Wait how so?

 

[Melchizedek]

Wait how so?

It essentially boils down to "villagers don't care about looking sketchy and will call out other people for seemingly hypocritical reasons"

But chasing down hypocritical reads and possible slip ups is what villagers do and its weird that cray is saying VSLMIP is pinging for doing the village thing.

 

[Melchizedek]

W

What are you seeing about Mel?

Just really quickly want to point out that I started making noise about Dina D1 last game and she immediately started campaigning against me and voting for me, and then flipped wolf.

Take that into consideration as you engage with VSLMIP

 

[Melchizedek]

I think from least to most sus and I’m a little shook by that list.

So instead of just shading it, you want to...idk? maybe ask me questions? Engage and figure out why I'm thinking what I'm thinking?


maybe wolf-hunt some?

 

[BobLoblaw78]

This reads to me as "somehow I picked up some sketch with my play so far, I need to be vague, deflect, stall for time, and regroup."

no more lessons for you!

 

[Melchizedek]

For the record I'm putting bob in my top 3 NOT for his usual bob-humor-mistranslated sketchiness.
D1, he sat on the Cray vote with me when there was a tie and didn't really make a push or a move anywhere. His initial cray reasoning was meh, and his reads since then have felt like he was sheeping village. The hedge on the "not mel YET" is cringe, like he's literally waiting to see what the overall consensus is on me so he can sheep that too.

 

[BobLoblaw78]

For the record I'm putting bob in my top 3 NOT for his usual bob-humor-mistranslated sketchiness.
D1, he sat on the Cray vote with me when there was a tie and didn't really make a push or a move anywhere. His initial cray reasoning was meh, and his reads since then have felt like he was sheeping village. The hedge on the "not mel YET" is cringe, like he's literally waiting to see what the overall consensus is on me so he can sheep that too.

???

Check my last game. I said that I would start going for low posters. I did this as I said I would. I was on cray before you were. You followed me on to cray. I was not around at close and stated this. So saying I sat on it is wrong at best and opportunistic at worst.

Sheeting village is me having MKG and having large POE? No.

I am waiting on you and others bc I like it when discussion is driven. I think more discussion is better for village which is why I have targeted low posters.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2: Don't Look Too Long into the Abyss

cubs ()
Stagg (3) - AM, mkg, Bob
samac ()
Mel (1) - vetschoolsplz
mkg (3) - genny, TME, Cray
TME (1) - Visc
Bob (2) - cubs, Stagg
Visc (1) - samac
Cray (1) - Mel

12/12

Has yet to vote: [idle]

Vote closes at 10pm, TODAY, 11/14 (~1.75 hours)

 

[Melchizedek]

Mel being on my Richard these last couple days feels pretty bad, and I feel like these days Mel plays mind games with me that makes it ridic hard for me to feel good about voting him. Like, he tried to pocket me last game we were w/v, but then again we have also both villaged and gotten along. Is a wolfy Mel wanting to WIFOM and not try to pocket me this game? Is this a sign of a village Mel by contrast? The head game makes it impossible for me to make any conclusion except that his logic on me is more awful than usual when he's wrong about me. I feel unsure enough about vetschools not to want to vote with her.

Mkg and Bob feel the worst, but is this my overreactivity to these particular sketchy newer players? Newer as far as everyone's age in WW games go, I recognize they're not exactly virgin noobs anymore.

### yeet Mkg ###

I don't know how to interpret this. This is less reactive than I was expecting from cray. Thinks I'm wolfy but votes for MKG instead.

@Animal Midwife when is the last time village!cray backed down from a push?

???

Check my last game. I said that I would start going for low posters. I did this as I said I would.

okay this is interesting information.

 

[samac]

Why do you think Cray would have been the one to go?

Because she was at 3 votes until I moved. I
Moved off Mel with 4 minutes to go onto cray to put her in the lead, you put the vote on alley and I changed to get alley out since she read wolf over.

Does stagg rely on TWTBW WiFoM a lot? Because my main village point on him is this last-second switch onto the leading villager wagon. Just doesn’t seem necessary for a wolf to draw that much attention to themself unless panic-bailing on a soft bus, which I don’t see stagg doing.

He didn’t move last second onto a villager wagon. I did.

No. You were in my POE D1 but Cray had me worried with even lower posting. Cray has done way better. I didn’t like your D1 close either. Then your statements seemed uncaring and had me feeling that you weren’t village aligned. Now it seems like you are reaching for low hanging fruit vs actual solving.

Keeping with you to see. I don’t want to be too reactionary. TME is worrying me. Cubs and Mel as well. Samac too. AM and pleasy not great. I think I have pretty much alienated everyone I that I can tonight. Visc seems village-neutral to me. MKG as well and everyone thinks otherwise so that bugs.

Spoiler

So instead of just shading it, you want to...idk? maybe ask me questions? Engage and figure out why I'm thinking what I'm thinking?


maybe wolf-hunt some?

I don’t think you know my play style very well, but I’m not a 20 questions kind of gal. You post your reads list and you can’t give your reasons. If you don’t I may just call it bad. Village can have bad reads.
I am considering all wagons were village D1. I’m not a wolf, alley wasn’t a wolf, I don’t think cray is a wolf. That leaves you and TME. Interesting that I know your wagonwasn entire village but people didn’t seem to jump else where to save you and that makes me think it’s less likely for you to be woof.

For the record I'm putting bob in my top 3 NOT for his usual bob-humor-mistranslated sketchiness.
D1, he sat on the Cray vote with me when there was a tie and didn't really make a push or a move anywhere. His initial cray reasoning was meh, and his reads since then have felt like he was sheeping village. The hedge on the "not mel YET" is cringe, like he's literally waiting to see what the overall consensus is on me so he can sheep that too.

That being said I do like the analysis on Bob.

 

[Crayola227]

???

Check my last game. I said that I would start going for low posters. I did this as I said I would. I was on cray before you were. You followed me on to cray. I was not around at close and stated this. So saying I sat on it is wrong at best and opportunistic at worst.

Sheeting village is me having MKG and having large POE? No.

I am waiting on you and others bc I like it when discussion is driven. I think more discussion is better for village which is why I have targeted low posters.

Yes but since when do I check into a game, note being busy, and never have my activity level pick back up? Especially with the 36/12s? My activity is more reliable and sustained game to game than my lack of ever is, typically.

 

[Crayola227]

I don't know how to interpret this. This is less reactive than I was expecting from cray. Thinks I'm wolfy but votes for MKG instead.

@Animal Midwife when is the last time village!cray backed down from a push?



okay this is interesting information.

I think plenty. See every game I ever mentioned sus of AM and she was a wolf for one example. I rarely vote AM in those situations.

What game was that with Dy? I was on her Richard for days sussing her. Only voted her once at the start.

I frequently am paranoid yet if I think my judgment may not be impartial or may not be a slam dunk about a player I will hold off voting.

 

[Crayola227]

Plus Mel besides the BS on me, I am seeing reasoning from you that I like.

 

[Crayola227]

Because she was at 3 votes until I moved. I
Moved off Mel with 4 minutes to go onto cray to put her in the lead, you put the vote on alley and I changed to get alley out since she read wolf over.

He didn’t move last second onto a villager wagon. I did.

Spoiler

I don’t think you know my play style very well, but I’m not a 20 questions kind of gal. You post your reads list and you can’t give your reasons. If you don’t I may just call it bad. Village can have bad reads.
I am considering all wagons were village D1. I’m not a wolf, alley wasn’t a wolf, I don’t think cray is a wolf. That leaves you and TME. Interesting that I know your wagonwasn entire village but people didn’t seem to jump else where to save you and that makes me think it’s less likely for you to be woof.

That being said I do like the analysis on Bob.

Wait how did you know his wagon was entirely village? You lost me somewhere in that paragraph.

 

[TelemarketingEnigma]

Wait how did you know his wagon was entirely village? You lost me somewhere in that paragraph.

mel's wagon was just samac and zenge

 

[samac]

Wait how did you know his wagon was entirely village? You lost me somewhere in that paragraph.

It was me and Zenge.
You all might question that, but I know it was.

 

[Melchizedek]

Unvote Cray
Vote VSLMIP

I'm feeling the pocketing, but I'm relaxing into it, I like Cray's more recent content. I will hate myself if/when she flips wolf.

I recently liked that VSLMIP put some effort into questioning Stagg, but her D1 play still looks wolfy to me, and she's doing the same thing wolf!dina did when I was pushing her last game. I like my vote here.

Would probably go stagg over mkg if people are going to force another tie.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 2: Don't Look Too Long into the Abyss

cubs ()
Stagg (3) - AM, mkg, Bob
samac ()
Mel (1) - vetschoolsplz
mkg (3) - genny, TME, Cray
TME (1) - Visc
Bob (2) - cubs, Stagg
Visc (1) - samac
Cray ()
vetschoolsplz (1) - Mel

12/12

Has yet to vote: [idle]

Vote closes at 10pm, TODAY, 11/14 (~50 MINUTES)

 

[genny]

So... how are those defenses coming? Anyone ready to present? Who wants to talk first?

 

[Stagg737]

Lol so much to look forward to having spawn

I can come throw up in your mouth. I am kind of your manaspawn...

 

[Crayola227]

I think my vote was the last to create a tie. As such, unless movement happens to break it, I will have to move my vote. I am unwilling to act as a tiemaker in a KD game.

 

[vetschoolsletmeinplease]

I've also noticed vis changed votes a lot D1 - I know you mentioned you haven't seen the backing down in arguments that you usually see from wolf vis, but the vote jumping has in some ways reminded me of that

This is interesting, kinda like a backing down but not out loud type thing?
But looking at the vote tracker, visc only switched twice, on D1, in a 36 hour period. I'm not sure when the switches happened in relation to eachother, but that doesn't strike me as switching votes often to quietly back off of people

Samac seems inconsistent. This is a surprise to me since she has seemed village. So a vote like this worries me more

Honestly an inconsistent samac makes me feel better about her. From what I remember, she's careful about what she says as a wolf
(which she then says herself a few posts later)

W

What are you seeing about Mel?

Let me go back and find some specific examples but I wanna get caught up real fast

 

[Crayola227]

Maybe I'm jumping the gun saying as much, sigh. It's not long to deadline and Cessna is home and we have stuff to do so I don't want to camp the thread.

 

[Animal Midwife]

You, TME. Maybe Cubs. Not Mel yet. Want to see what he has done with his day today

Cray is out of it. Samac is worse. When I started looking comparability she looked compatible with too many and other things she said didn’t look great in addition to the end vote.

Who is samac compatible with?

I may be inconsistent but I assure you that is more village than wolf.
I would be consistent if I was wolf.

Part of me is toying with Visc and AM in a pack together. I don’t know if they’d be ballsy enough to sit on TME together as a pack.

Why?

Yeet stagg

What made you choose Stagg?

 

[Stagg737]

Does stagg rely on TWTBW WiFoM a lot? Because my main village point on him is this last-second switch onto the leading villager wagon. Just doesn’t seem necessary for a wolf to draw that much attention to themself unless panic-bailing on a soft bus, which I don’t see stagg doing.

I don't believe in this, wolves can do anything and good ones will.

Now it seems like you are reaching for low hanging fruit vs actual solving.

You serious? Have you read any of my posts today?

And since when is asking for more of a justification of your vote reaching for low-hanging fruit? You previously posted a giant hedgey list of everyone that gave minimal explanation and when I asked why I was your top pick your response was "Feels". You really going to try and argue that's manufactured shade and that I'm not trying to hunt wolves?

 

[Crayola227]

What sucks is I like my vote where it is and with whom I'm voting. Bob is a good vote too but just creates a different tie so I can't go there.

 

[Stagg737]

What made you choose Stagg?

What's made you stay on me? Still waiting for that response...

 

[Crayola227]

Ugh **** does anyone want to move with me to stay on mkg, to vote Bob, or other ideas?

Otherwise I'm seriously considering throwing my vote away today. I feel hamstrung right now.

 

[Crayola227]

Not super feeling Stagg and even if I was, it would be tough for me to vote with Bob and mkg rn lol

 

[samac]

Who is samac compatible with?

Why?

What made you choose Stagg?

Visc hasn’t done anything in particular to make me village read her. I’m surprised she was your highest village read.
Then I remember in Goats that you did that with Dina when other people questioned her.

Also. The post count shook me. I feel like I’ve been absent because I worked yesterday and was busy today this game so that being said the breakdown shocks me:
AM - 82
Cray - 93
Me - 161
Visc - 60

 

[samac]

Not super feeling Stagg and even if I was, it would be tough for me to vote with Bob and mkg rn lol

I’m not feeling stagg either.
I can move but im not sure who to vote for.

 

[Animal Midwife]

@Animal Midwife updated POE? Particularly curious what your thoughts are on my current wagon.

POE is the same.

Still uncomfortable with mkg and want to know why Bob's voting for you.

No. You were in my POE D1 but Cray had me worried with even lower posting. Cray has done way better. I didn’t like your D1 close either. Then your statements seemed uncaring and had me feeling that you weren’t village aligned. Now it seems like you are reaching for low hanging fruit vs actual solving.

Keeping with you to see. I don’t want to be too reactionary. TME is worrying me. Cubs and Mel as well. Samac too. AM and pleasy not great. I think I have pretty much alienated everyone I that I can tonight. Visc seems village-neutral to me. MKG as well and everyone thinks otherwise so that bugs.

What exactly are you wolf reading me off of? I see you citing mkg but even she's not voting me today.

I don't know how to interpret this. This is less reactive than I was expecting from cray. Thinks I'm wolfy but votes for MKG instead.

@Animal Midwife when is the last time village!cray backed down from a push?



okay this is interesting information.

I don't think she's done it to me, but she is overall more passive lately especially if in no immediate danger. I think I remember this type of non-reaction occurring when she was village as well.

 

[Crayola227]

POE is the same.

Still uncomfortable with mkg and want to know why Bob's voting for you.

What exactly are you wolf reading me off of? I see you citing mkg but even she's not voting me today.

I don't think she's done it to me, but she is overall more passive lately especially if in no immediate danger. I think I remember this type of non-reaction occurring when she was village as well.

How do you feel voting alongside mkg?

 

[Animal Midwife]

What's made you stay on me? Still waiting for that response...

The way you caught up this game feels pointedly different than how I've watched you catch up other games.

 

[Melchizedek]

I can come throw up in your mouth. I am kind of your manaspawn...

Spoiler

 

[Animal Midwife]

Visc hasn’t done anything in particular to make me village read her. I’m surprised she was your highest village read.
Then I remember in Goats that you did that with Dina when other people questioned her.

Also. The post count shook me. I feel like I’ve been absent because I worked yesterday and was busy today this game so that being said the breakdown shocks me:
AM - 82
Cray - 93
Me - 161
Visc - 60

I fail to see what's shocking about the post count.