Stanford vs State?

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Umm could you tell us what state school this is?? If you are a California resident, then I would just stick with the state school (Unless you really want academic medicine and then only UCSF,UCSD, UCLA would be fit).

If you are at another state school, I would go with Stanford personally....
 
theroadtomed said:
Anyone think it's worth double the debt (75K vs 150K) to go to Stanford over my state school? I really love Stanford, and think it offers a lot of opportunity, but the money talks as well. Why or why not?
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If you just want to get into med school, don't worry about it. Just get good grades and a good MCAT. With great grades/MCAT/research, you could still end up just about anywhere for med school.

If you want maximize your chances to get into the upper tier schools, then yea, go to Stanford because school of origin matters to them.
 
We're talking medical school and the total cost in loans over four years. The state school is Georgia.
 
ive heard that even though stanfurd tuition is high, the school offers large grants to most students. i once heard a talk by that dean of admissions and he said that stanfurd grads usually graduated with debt well below the national avg.

so make your decision after getting the fin aid award letter.

anyways, id pick stanfurd over georgia. the weather there is your awesome stereotypical california weather
 
Pills Of Soap said:
ive heard that even though stanfurd tuition is high, the school offers large grants to most students. i once heard a talk by that dean of admissions and he said that stanfurd grads usually graduated with debt well below the national avg.

so make your decision after getting the fin aid award letter.
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Those numbers are taking aid into consideration, and are the final projected debt figures, including Stanford's grants.
 
theroadtomed said:
Those numbers are taking aid into consideration, and are the final projected debt figures, including Stanford's grants.
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Hmm. Honestly, given med school debt, 150k is reasonable, especially since most peoples' debt spikes up past 250k sometimes.

If you honestly think you'll have a better experience at Stanford, and the environment and opportunities will suit you better, then go there. The higher ranking and california factor just adds to it.

On the other hand, remember its 75k. Judge your cost/benefit ratio carefully.
 
Don't forget to take your personal factors into account as well. Med school is stressful, and a support system is important. Where is your family? Long time friends? Is the med school in Georgia close to home for you? What size town are you most comfortable in? Which school better fits that? How about culture? Have you ever lived in California before?

It really comes down to the idea that you're the same person no matter where you go. Likely you will do just about the same, academically, in either place. 75 thousand is a lot of money, even if it doesn't seem like it right now. Nearly everyone I've spoken to who has made the choice of going to a expensive prestigious school over a less expensive choice has regretted it. Not all, but most.

That being said, make the best choice for you. Many people here can't imagine the idea of NOT wanting to go to California. Well, I can't personally imagine living in a big city or somewhere it doesn't snow. Does that make me crazy? No, just an individual, just like you.
 
Only considering money...Stanford students on average have the second lowest medical school debt (next to Mayo). You can verify that using USNews ranking or the MSAR.
 
theroadtomed said:
We're talking medical school and the total cost in loans over four years. The state school is Georgia.
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That means your choices are either MCG or Mercer. I interviewed at both and was unimpressed by the facilities and research opportunities available to the students, but if you are fully from Georgia and want to stay in the state, then both schools are really easy options for you.

Btw, Stanford is AMAZING and I would choose to go there in a heartbeat! The campus and facilities? BEAUTIFUL..
 
Book your ticket to Palo Alto and don't look back.
 
I don't know what state school you're thinking of...but combined with the TA positions and the Med Scholars/Traveling Scholars program, I seriously doubt Stanford will be much more money (at least in terms of tuition).

Depends on your state school, but going to Stanford will give you an advantage in certain areas of the countries and with certain institutions for residency positions.
 
I'm bit torn for a few reasons. Money is one, and graduating with such a low debt is very attractive. Another is that all of my family/everyone I know is in Georgia - a built in support network that isn't in California. On the other hand I like the bay area and the culture better, and love what I've seen of Stanford. However, you hear some people say it doesn't matter where you go because you'll be too busy to really notice/ care about your surroundings. Georgia has relatively nice weather as far as I'm concerned, so California weather doesn't make much difference to me in this decision.
 
mdeast said:
I don't know what state school you're thinking of...but combined with the TA positions and the Med Scholars/Traveling Scholars program, I seriously doubt Stanford will be much more money (at least in terms of tuition).

Depends on your state school, but going to Stanford will give you an advantage in certain areas of the countries and with certain institutions for residency positions.
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Stanford is restructuring their entire tuition system and med scholars so that the average debt will be significantly higher for our class.
 
theroadtomed said:
Stanford is restructuring their entire tuition system and med scholars so that the average debt will be significantly higher for our class.
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How? They didn't mention this really on my interview day. Other than that they were going to combine Med scholars/traveling scholars into one grant.

Stanford didn't seem like a place that would actively restructure their financial aid system to make things more expensive for its students.
 
theroadtomed said:
Stanford is restructuring their entire tuition system and med scholars so that the average debt will be significantly higher for our class.
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I don't believe this to be true, and I agree with mdeast. On my interview day they told us about how they are restructuring their financial aid system. Right now it is a little fubar complicated with the Med Scholars funding, Stanford Grant, loans, and scholarship all separate. What they're trying to do is present a clearer picture so it can be better understood straightway as COST = TUITION - NET FUNDING

EDIT: To further elaborate on how tangled the system is right now, check out Stanford's financial aid website:

http://med.stanford.edu/md/financial_aid/meeting_need_institutional.html
 
yea, their interview day financial aid presentation was really confusing, but what i got from it is that although stanford's package doesn't look more generous than other schools', there's medscholars plus $60/hr TAing that makes students end up only ~100k in debt overall
 
however, what they told us at second look was completely different than what they told us on our interview day, so i have almost no idea how much total debt i should expect
 
pelliper said:
yea, their interview day financial aid presentation was really confusing, but what i got from it is that although stanford's package doesn't look more generous than other schools', there's medscholars plus $60/hr TAing that makes students end up only ~100k in debt overall
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I will say that the financial aid advisor warned that one reason Stanford grads have low debt is because they work their *****es off doing research, TAing, etc. While it is the school providing those opportunities, you can choose not to take advantage of them and subsequently graduate with a lot of debt. In other words, it's not inherently cheaper than Georgia, it just can be if you're prepared to work hard.
 
Go to Stanford!! Who knows what medicine will be like in 10 years? Stanford will open doors for you in and out of medicine(if it comes to that).👍
 
theroadtomed said:
I'm bit torn for a few reasons. Money is one, and graduating with such a low debt is very attractive. Another is that all of my family/everyone I know is in Georgia - a built in support network that isn't in California. On the other hand I like the bay area and the culture better, and love what I've seen of Stanford. However, you hear some people say it doesn't matter where you go because you'll be too busy to really notice/ care about your surroundings. Georgia has relatively nice weather as far as I'm concerned, so California weather doesn't make much difference to me in this decision.
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It sounds like you want to stay in Georgia. While recognizing that this may impact your ability to get into something like derm (should you want to) or into a top tier academic center for anything, it is a personal decision and having family/friends around is important. Not everyone is gunning to be the chairman of cardiology at MGH someday or whatever.

Medical school is mentally and emotionally tough. It is OK to chose what you think will be best for you, even if it isn't what's traditionally considered the best by SDN standards.

Would you still feel this way even if the money were the same? That may help you decide.
 
tacrum43 said:
It sounds like you want to stay in Georgia. While recognizing that this may impact your ability to get into something like derm (should you want to) or into a top tier academic center for anything, it is a personal decision and having family/friends around is important. Not everyone is gunning to be the chairman of cardiology at MGH someday or whatever.

Medical school is mentally and emotionally tough. It is OK to chose what you think will be best for you, even if it isn't what's traditionally considered the best by SDN standards.

Would you still feel this way even if the money were the same? That may help you decide.
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Gosh I'm so torn in this decision. To answer your question, if the money were exactly the same I'd probably choose Stanford. But that's kind of a moot point. If the money were exactly the same I'd probably choose sailing around the world rather than working, to exaggerate it a bit. I'm really confused. I like Georgia okay, and MCG doesn't have bad residency placements by any means from the looks of it. I could graduate with extremely low debt, which is highly, highly attractive. And the cost of living is tremendously lower, affording a higher quality of life there even on a med-student budget as compared to Stanford, though Stanford has beautiful weather and the Bay area right beside it. My impression, for after, is that Stanford won't have a major impact on my residency options, but how hard I work will. I believe I could work hard at either just fine. The debt figures though, in my mind, have broad-ranging impacts beyond just the four years. Stanford has untangible benefits like the people I would be surrounded by and the other schools that are all top in the field (law, business, etc.) being nearby. But, I have no way of predicting whether or not I would even want to take advantage of those, and could very well walk out having never used them and it just being a waste.

To the person above who said people would take out loads more money to go to Stanford than even that, that isn't anything more than a bandwagon argument. Sure loads might, but I equally believe loads would be really hurting after and wondering if they made the best decision. If you have the option to avoid debt it should be strongly considered in my mind, especially with the uncertainty of the economy and the medical field as a whole.

I'm incredibly undecided at this point, which scares me because a decision has to be made in only a couple of weeks. Anybody else have any thoughts?
 
NormaMD said:
however, what they told us at second look was completely different than what they told us on our interview day, so i have almost no idea how much total debt i should expect
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This. Debt will be much higher for our class than previous classes, so all talk of incredibly low graduation debt (figures aroun 100K average) are out the window now. And with my official financial aid package it looks like, conservatively and even assuming doing a few things like TA'ing, I'm looking at at least 150K and as high as 200K of debt vs around 60-70K for MCG.
 
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theroadtomed said:
Gosh I'm so torn in this decision. To answer your question, if the money were exactly the same I'd probably choose Stanford. But that's kind of a moot point. If the money were exactly the same I'd probably choose sailing around the world rather than working, to exaggerate it a bit. I'm really confused. I like Georgia okay, and MCG doesn't have bad residency placements by any means from the looks of it. I could graduate with extremely low debt, which is highly, highly attractive. And the cost of living is tremendously lower, affording a higher quality of life there even on a med-student budget as compared to Stanford, though Stanford has beautiful weather and the Bay area right beside it. My impression, for after, is that Stanford won't have a major impact on my residency options, but how hard I work will.
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Some people feel they absolutely need to attend a high-status school for validation. You don't sound like one of those people.

In reality, Stanford will open more residency options because that's the way life is. I don't empathize with your concern about standard of living as a medical student, as it's commonly expected that every medical student's material standard of living will be meager.

On the other hand, your concerns about debt are valid... living in the Bay Area on a physician's salary is not as plush as it sounds. If you're sure you want to enter a relatively non-competitive field like FP, internal or psych, then going to MCG makes sense.
 
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docelh said:
Some people feel they absolutely need to attend a high-status school for validation. You don't sound like one of those people.

In reality, Stanford will open more residency options because that's the way life is. I don't empathize with your concern about standard of living as a medical student, as it's commonly expected that every medical student's material standard of living will be meager.

On the other hand, your concerns about debt are valid... living in the Bay Area on a physician's salary is not as plush as it sounds. If you're sure you want to enter a relatively non-competitive field like FP, internal or psych, then going to MCW makes sense.
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I am not at all sure that I want to go into a non-competitive field. I will likely go into a specialist field. I think it's irrational to say MCG isn't just as likely to put someone into a competitive specialty. Here's one of their recent matchlists, with what are definitely some competitive people on there:

http://www.mcg.edu/ua/alumni/medicine/08residents.html
 
theroadtomed said:
I am not at all sure that I want to go into a non-competitive field. I will likely go into a specialist field. I think it's irrational to say MCG isn't just as likely to put someone into a competitive specialty. Here's one of their recent matchlists, with what are definitely some competitive people on there:

http://www.mcg.edu/ua/alumni/medicine/08residents.html
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That's a pretty decent list. If you went to either, you'd have to get good evals and Steps.... Regardless, MCG seems to have a good pipeline into Southern residencies; if you're perfectly fine with it, that's cool.

Lord Jeebus posted something awhile back about prestige and residency options. He was using Harvard as an example, but one got the guess that you could extrapolate the same comparing Stanford against MCG.

To be fair, a lot of Stanford grads tend to stay in California and the Bay Area. They have opportunities for other competitive West Coast and Northeast residencies. If that's what you want, go to Stanford. Having lived in the Bay Area, I can tell you it is so ridiculously expensive that even working there as a doctor means you're just getting by slightly better than the average the Silicon Valley worker. I can definitely empathize with your desire to live & work in a lower cost area like Georgia.
 
Official difference in cost per year is 30K... However, stanfords grads have an average of about 87K compared to MCG's 107K...

Looks like the costs kinda balance out in the end... I would say stanford is a no brainer (providing that you already got in)
 
theroadtomed said:
I am not at all sure that I want to go into a non-competitive field. I will likely go into a specialist field. I think it's irrational to say MCG isn't just as likely to put someone into a competitive specialty. Here's one of their recent matchlists, with what are definitely some competitive people on there:

http://www.mcg.edu/ua/alumni/medicine/08residents.html
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Stop rationalizing and starting new threads to have someone tell you what you want to hear. Go to MCG, brag about how little debt you have, and enjoy never leaving the state of Georgia.
 
ButImLETired said:
Stop rationalizing and starting new threads to have someone tell you what you want to hear. Go to MCG, brag about how little debt you have, and enjoy never leaving the state of Georgia.
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That was kind of a condescending thing to say... He's making totally valid points, probably because he's getting very biased advice in this thread. You know, not everyone has the luxury of going out of state. It doesn't mean that they are afraid of venturing out of their state.

To OP: I feel you, I'm in the same boat. I think that people on this forum enormously downplay the impact of debt. I would think that graduating debt-free (or almost) would be a huge load off of your shoulders, and would also improve your day-to-day lifestyle. I don't know which one I'm going to choose. But remember that a lot of the people commenting here are current applicants - and a few months ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about paying for a private school, just as long as I got into med school. You might get a different perspective from people in the process of paying off their loans.
 
ButImLETired said:
Stop rationalizing and starting new threads to have someone tell you what you want to hear. Go to MCG, brag about how little debt you have, and enjoy never leaving the state of Georgia.
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It's really not cut and dry at all for me. I'm actually leaning much more towards Stanford overall, but this deadline approaching and getting the real costs back from both and knowing exactly how much it will cost has really sent me reeling as far as what I should prioritize in my school choice.
 
daisy44 said:
That was kind of a condescending thing to say... He's making totally valid points, probably because he's getting very biased advice in this thread. You know, not everyone has the luxury of going out of state. It doesn't mean that they are afraid of venturing out of their state.

To OP: I feel you, I'm in the same boat. I think that people on this forum enormously downplay the impact of debt. I would think that graduating debt-free (or almost) would be a huge load off of your shoulders, and would also improve your day-to-day lifestyle. I don't know which one I'm going to choose. But remember that a lot of the people commenting here are current applicants - and a few months ago, I wouldn't have thought twice about paying for a private school, just as long as I got into med school. You might get a different perspective from people in the process of paying off their loans.
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The problem is how he's presenting it. He doesn't accept the advice he gets and just keeps being defensive. It really sounds as if he's made up his mind but because people disagree with him he just keeps harping on the 75 grand of difference in debt. He even made another thread to send more people here, presumably to tell him what he wants to hear. The point is, most people don't think 75k are that big a deal as far as debt is concerned, especially when the difference between two med schools is as large as this is. Especially considering how anti-debt SDN is, the fact that almost everyone thinks Stanford is the better choice is very telling.

But it really sounds like the OP wants to go to MCG, and he should. Not everyone likes to move away. I don't think in this case it's a "luxury", it's more fear of the unknown and of leaving the comfort of home. I always hear the argument that it's "nice to have a support system", but I think it's a bit of a cop-out. Medicine is a really grown-up job, and being away from home is really, really healthy. To give up the chance to go to a medical school like Stanford based on 75k difference and fear of leaving home seems silly to most people.

Oh, and I am neither a pre-med nor do I "not understand" the impact of debt. I spent two years after college paying back my college debt. And I wasn't eating ramen every day and living out of a box. 75k when you're a doctor is NOT THAT BIG A DEAL. If anything, people who freak out at that kind of number tend to be premeds who have never had to pay their own debt back and are therefore terrified of it. Debt is a fact of life. Mortgages, car loans, credit cards...they're a fact of life. When you have a job, you just factor that stuff in. For the record, I'm not saying Stanford is inherently better than MCG- I actually am not a huge Stanford fan. I just have a problem with people who want to hear their own opinion validated and get annoyed when it isn't.
 
theroadtomed said:
It's really not cut and dry at all for me. I'm actually leaning much more towards Stanford overall, but this deadline approaching and getting the real costs back from both and knowing exactly how much it will cost has really sent me reeling as far as what I should prioritize in my school choice.
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Well, then I'll repeat what I just said. Debt happens. It's not nearly as terrifying as a lot of people make it out to be. The difference between 75k and 150k is really not as gigantic as it sounds when you're in college. It can mean something as simple as spending an extra year living like a resident when you become an attending, especially if you're going to specialize anyway. If you were going to be a general pediatrician or a family practitioner, sure, you might have some trouble. But it sounds to me like your interests will allow you to earn enough to live well.
 
mmmcdowe said:
Does the OP have undergrad debt?
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Only about 20K.

ButImLETired said:
The problem is how he's presenting it. He doesn't accept the advice he gets and just keeps being defensive. It really sounds as if he's made up his mind but because people disagree with him he just keeps harping on the 75 grand of difference in debt. He even made another thread to send more people here, presumably to tell him what he wants to hear. The point is, most people don't think 75k are that big a deal as far as debt is concerned, especially when the difference between two med schools is as large as this is. Especially considering how anti-debt SDN is, the fact that almost everyone thinks Stanford is the better choice is very telling.
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I'm being defensive because everyone who is giving me advice's instant reaction seems to be "go to Stanford", and the vast majority of these people aren't people who have gone through it...society just conditions us to hear names like Stanford and be swayed that way. Believe you me, I'm swayed that way myself for much the same reasons and have been since I got in. It's only now that I feel like I'm actually considering things in a mature way and not just looking at it with a doe-eyed view of "Stanford is ranked top ten and everyone on SDN and in the pre-med world wants to go to these sorts of schools so they must be great." I wanted to hear people's real rational reasons for one over the other, rather than quick and dirty "Stanford is great" or "go to the state school if it's what you like." I have a few reasons for being interested in both, but I was just looking for some more input to see if anyone else thought of things I hadn't.

The real difference is 100K+ based on the financial aid packages I got this week. That is not a trivial amount of money, and I think that anyone who doesn't give some pause to that number to pay extra for a school hasn't really thought it through. With interest rates being as high as they are, etc., you can expect that number to balloon up much higher. At several of my interviews they specifically mentioned that with a ten year repayment plan after residency you would be looking roughly doubling the amount of the original loan. Interest rates are much higher now than for most of the doctors in the field, and a lot of the doctors I've talked to have suggested to do everything you can to minimize debt.
 
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theroadtomed said:
Only about 20K.



I'm being defensive because everyone's instant reaction seems to be "go to Stanford" who is giving me advice, and the vast majority of these people aren't people who have gone through it...society just conditions us to hear names like Stanford and be swayed that way. Believe you me, I'm swayed that way myself for much the same reasons and have been since I got in. It's only now that I feel like I'm actually considering things in a mature way and not just looking at it with a doe-eyed view of "Stanford is ranked top ten and everyone on SDN and in the pre-med world wants to go to these sorts of schools so they must be great." I wanted to hear people's real rational reasons for one over the other, rather than quick and dirty "Stanford is great" or "go to the state school if it's what you like." I have a few reasons for being interested in both, but I was just looking for some more input to see if anyone else thought of things I hadn't.

The real difference is 100K+ based on the financial aid packages I got this week. That is not a trivial amount of money, and I think that anyone who doesn't give some pause to that number to pay extra for a school hasn't really thought it through. With interest rates being as high, etc., you can expect that number to balloon up much higher. At several of my interviews they specifically mentioned that with a ten year repayment plan after residency you would be looking roughly doubling the amount of the original loan. Interest rates are much higher now than for most of the doctors in the field, and a lot of the doctors I've talked to have suggested to do everything you can to minimize debt.
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I turned down a full ride from my state school to come to Columbia. I've thought it through, go to Stanford. Not based on its rank, because I have no clue if you are interested in competitive specialties or academia, but because in your first post you said you really liked it there. Happiness is worth debt.
 
OP, I responded to your post awhile ago explaining that Stanford students work their debt off as medical students through the various options available to them at Stanford.

If money is your only concern, CALL the financial aid office at Stanford, and work out a program that will maximize their funds for you, then make your decision. Chances are they will have a good idea of your chances of getting grants/research funding/scholarships/etc.
 
theroadtomed said:
Only about 20K.



I'm being defensive because everyone who is giving me advice's instant reaction seems to be "go to Stanford", and the vast majority of these people aren't people who have gone through it...society just conditions us to hear names like Stanford and be swayed that way. Believe you me, I'm swayed that way myself for much the same reasons and have been since I got in. It's only now that I feel like I'm actually considering things in a mature way and not just looking at it with a doe-eyed view of "Stanford is ranked top ten and everyone on SDN and in the pre-med world wants to go to these sorts of schools so they must be great." I wanted to hear people's real rational reasons for one over the other, rather than quick and dirty "Stanford is great" or "go to the state school if it's what you like." I have a few reasons for being interested in both, but I was just looking for some more input to see if anyone else thought of things I hadn't.

The real difference is 100K+ based on the financial aid packages I got this week. That is not a trivial amount of money, and I think that anyone who doesn't give some pause to that number to pay extra for a school hasn't really thought it through. With interest rates being as high as they are, etc., you can expect that number to balloon up much higher. At several of my interviews they specifically mentioned that with a ten year repayment plan after residency you would be looking roughly doubling the amount of the original loan. Interest rates are much higher now than for most of the doctors in the field, and a lot of the doctors I've talked to have suggested to do everything you can to minimize debt.
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This entire thread is an example of why these X vs. Y threads are useless. Your decision to go to stanford or MCG is a PERSONAL decision. If you want the opinion for the public, the public says GO TO STANFORD. Is this the decision you want to hear? No, probably not, because debt clearly scares you. If you know that MCG is better for you based on debt and family, then go there! You don't need the approval of this thread or the masses, because you probably will never get. And btw, no one on this thread will have amazing insight that will sway you toward Stanford, so I would suggest you call up the admissions office, directly talk to current students, talk to alumni, etc. and see if they have the sight you seek. Good luck.. but seriously, Stanford is WAY superior to MCG in terms of location, facilities, research, and other opportunities. I personally chose Michigan over the georgia schools!
 
if money isnt a major issue, i would go with Stanford. it has a great reputation and would be worth the money!!
 
I would definitely look into the financial aid situation at Stanford a little harder before making a decision. They have one of the lowest average debts in the nation. I've heard they allow you to TA to make some money/cut down your debt.
 
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JJMrK said:
I would definitely look into the financial aid situation at Stanford a little harder before making a decision. They have on of the lowest average debts in the nation. I've heard they allow you to TA to make some money/cut down your debt.
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People keep bringing this up but I imagine that the reason that the OP doesn't seem to be considering it is because:
1) Stanford restructured their financial aid/research scholars program starting with this incoming class, and so past years' info may not be as relevant anymore and
2) "average debt" doesn't really mean as much to him when he presumably has the actual projected numbers from the financial aid office in front of him.

I suppose it wouldn't hurt for him to ask them again to be sure, but I don't think 150k is too unreasonable or insanely inaccurate. They were averaging 100k in past years, and with tuition increases and the revamped research program, 150k is a reasonable estimate
 
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