StardeWW 2: Ginger Island - GAME THREAD

[WildZoo]

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Frozen and crying in Dubz chat

 

[WildZoo]

Why can't AM be here to tell me whether Stagg has really gone on multi-page back and forth arguments about semantics with a wolf partner before

 

[WildZoo]

@Lawpy's theory from earlier about mighty being told to bus Stagg makes sense UNTIL mighty then moves to stoat a few minutes later and hesitates to move back to Stagg. If the point was to give Stagg a reason to self prez on him later and to give him some clearance from the crossvote, why the heck would mighty move at all?

It again to me looks like a wolf jumping on a misyeet opportunity because there were 2 villagers voting there and another 2 saying they'd consider it, and then hopping on the next available one when there was less support than expected.

Also this

A specific piece of info gained from a Vis flip (since you wanted specifics) would be moving moving Zenge and AM into solid village if she slips wolf. And you’re one of those I’d get a lot more info about through interactions with them.

Again doesn't strike me as something a wolf would push for? Like, you very much don't want to clear Zenge and AM d1, you want to avoid that as long as possible.

 

[WildZoo]

I still don't find him super wolfy tbh

Also though I am prepared to break the tie. I'd prefer to yeet not Vis and not mighty today, but if everyone dies that's no good.

I'm sure these have been quoted before but, you know, oof

 

[Stagg737]

See here

I don't understand how this unpairs you from Mighty.

Is it too angleshooty to consider that the write up said “both” when Samac died?

Can you clarify this thought?

I’m village
I’m leaning alley village, claimed bodyguard
I’m starting to lean PSV village, her thinking my block cleared her but not pushing it when I said it didn’t because there’s >1 wolf left felt villagey

So feels like a losing POE

Other than claimed bodyguard, why is Alley village?

I have an idea for helping us to get a better grounding in the game, but I will need help for it to be plausible. Extending from what I said here, I really believe a re-read could make a big difference. It's a big game thread though, and perhaps a distribution of duties would make it more manageable. I'd also be interested to see what folks could produce in such an effort for the sake of assessing them. Maybe one player can take on one phase (e.g., Day 1), another takes on Night 1, and so on. Instead of reading everything all over again.

Just a thought. I meant it before when I said teamwork makes the dream work, and forgive the cliche. Maybe this is too in-the-clouds, but it's worth a try.

It's a nice thought, but unless we're having multiple people cover each phase wolves can manipulate what they're doing. Could be an interesting experiment though...

potentialsheltervet: village and I know it
alleycat03: I still don't get why she is alive when she can fiddle with NKs and VCA doesn't look great, but the way she's bodyguarded also doesn't make much sense for a wolf so it's baffling. Lean village I guess but moreso null.
WildZoo: village
Stagg737: was a CW to both Vis and mighty, seemed village with his positioning throughout the D1 vote, and yet cannot be totally cleared as village. It would be kinda strange but not impossible for him to be a wolf. And I keep thinking back to his asking if anyone had a tally to know whether he needed to self-prez onto mighty instead of just doing it. It's niggling at me.
SARdoghandler: village due to votes, Dubz soul read
JaggedJimmyJay: likely village due to pushing flipped wolves
Barkley13: I think her response to me is very village
miranda920: I thought she felt like a floundering noob early in the game and wanted to leave her alone for that reason, but there really hasn't been much to clear her. Dubz pointed out that the mayor stuff would be strange for a wolf but frankly none of this makes sense if there isn't something strange going on so idk.
Coopah Lawpy: feels like a regular Lawp with his questioning, explanations, etc. I think he's village.
genny: still just... genny. I don't have much of a read on her.

You're saying it doesn't make sense why she's alive and then saying lean village? I'm confused. To the second bolded, I asked because I was wolf-reading Vis and wanted her to be the vote. I didn't want to move unless I needed to, which it was starting to seem like I needed to because I didn't want to die.

So for me I'd sort:

Village:
Dubz
SAR
JJJ
Lawpy

Village lean:
Barks

genny???

POE is Stagg, miranda, and alley in that order.

I am again baffled that you've got me as highest wolf read when your only argument for Alley is bodyguard claim. Wat?

Regarding the bold, that’s what makes Staggs a deepwolf pls. He quite literally bussed his packmates who didn’t want to be bussed in his first game. So his going after vissy doesn’t clear him.

It’s the mighty thing that makes it weird

I feel like I've read this multiple times this game, but other than 1 person being pissed I hammered them, I'm pretty positive none of them were actively protesting me bussing them, especially since it took multiple days for village to even catch the first wolf that game. @SARdoghandler, pretty sure you wolfed that game with me, am I crazy?

 

[Stagg737]

It looks like mighty saw the Staggs wagon forming because of Nates and Santy initial votes plus WZ, samacs and me entertaining the idea of voting Staggs.

So mighty quickly voted Staggs despite barely talking about him. Makes me think he was prodded to do so

But WZ and samacs didn’t vote Staggs and i broke away to stoaty. Which probably put mighty in a bad spot so he voted stoaty to at least look like he’s consistent with his reads.

But when i switched back to Staggs, mighty got confused and hesitated to make the switch before doing so

By then, vissy and Staggs rapidly switched to self prez by voting mighty

Why would I tell Mighty to pile onto me to make a 3rd wolf wagon on board on D1? That makes no sense whatsoever. You're trying to paint this as me trying to orchestrate some weird mastermind wolfflefest because....why?

If we're looking at D1 VCA alone, yours is awful. You tried to continue a counterwagon on Lucy which failed, then late day tried to start a counterwagon on me WITH MIGHTY WHEN THERE WERE ALREADY 2 WOLF WAGONS. Per VCA we should be piling on you right now.

 

[Stagg737]

Maybe it is different looking at it in the context of knowing that villagers started that vote

I mean he would be one to leave me alive when I'm begging for and deserving of death so there's that lol

No, I enjoy killing you early far too much. And if I were wolfing, Genny would be dead and AM would still be alive.

 

[WildZoo]

Oh this was the thing I noticed in the vote spreadsheet but it's not as interesting as I thought it was once I looked at the context. It's one of those things where Stagg didn't really need to self prez onto mighty at all, but I can't say that a village stagg wouldn't have behaved similarly. So I'm quoting it since I mentioned it but it's meh to me now.

Spoiler

10:49pm

Most humans fear the unknown... - Day 1 Tally

View attachment 367925

Vis (5) - Zenge, AM, Stagg, stoat, Dubz
miranda (1) - Barky
Dubz ()
Stagg (3) - Nate, Santy, Lawpy
mighty (5) - samac, JJJ, Clem, SAR, miranda
Zenge ()
Santy (1) - Vis
alley ()
Nate ()
lucy (2) - PSV, alley
stoat (1) - mighty

@Viscernable and @mightyrunner7, you are in the lead!
A tie

18/19 voting
Missing: @lucy.

Vote closes today, 3/17, at 10 PM CDT (~10 minutes).

10:55pm

unyeet stoat yeet stagg

10:56pm

I don’t feel good enough about Santy to be comfortable voting with him, don’t want to end on a 3-way tie, and don’t like that vote movement timing by mighty.

Unvote Santy
Vote mighty

Can we get a count update please? I need to know if I need to self pres and vote Mighty.

10:57pm

Most humans fear the unknown... - Day 1 Tally


Vis (5) - Zenge, AM, Stagg, stoat, Dubz
miranda (1) - Barky
Dubz ()
Stagg (4) - Nate, Santy, Lawpy, mighty
mighty (6) - samac, JJJ, Clem, SAR, miranda, Vis
Zenge ()
Santy (1) - Vis
alley ()
Nate ()
lucy (2) - PSV, alley
stoat ()

@mightyrunner7, you are in the lead!

18/19 voting
Missing: @lucy.

Vote closes today, 3/17, at 10 PM CDT (~3 minutes).

10:58pm

Unless
Unyeet Lucy
Yeet Vis

Ugh, unvote Vis
Vote Mighty

 

[genny]

Can you clarify this thought?

Can you clarify your request for clarification? I don’t understand what was unclear about what I said.

 

[Stagg737]

I have to head home, but

Vote Alley

Because other than ability claim I can't see why she's still alive. Although I want to dig through Lawpy's posts too, because it's just not sitting right with me and feels like he's pushing my vote because he feels he can.

 

[Stagg737]

Can you clarify your request for clarification? I don’t understand what was unclear about what I said.

What you were referring to with the idea of "both" being the wording.

 

[Lawpy]

If we're looking at D1 VCA alone, yours is awful. You tried to continue a counterwagon on Lucy which failed, then late day tried to start a counterwagon on me WITH MIGHTY WHEN THERE WERE ALREADY 2 WOLF WAGONS. Per VCA we should be piling on you right now.

This is disingenuous. It was Nates who started your wagon followed by Santy right after.

 

[WildZoo]

PSV: I am prepared to break the tie

Also PSV: makes a tie

But, I really don't think a wolf!PSV makes that tie unless she is wolfing with exactly Stagg and knew he was going to move to mighty.

 

[Lawpy]

I have to head home, but

Vote Alley

Because other than ability claim I can't see why she's still alive. Although I want to dig through Lawpy's posts too, because it's just not sitting right with me and feels like he's pushing my vote because he feels he can.

Or it’s because you’re a deepwolf, which isn’t unprecedented.

 

[supershorty]

Be Glad You’re A Farmer… Day 4 Tally

Stagg (2) - PSV, Lawpy
alley (1) - Stagg

@Stagg737, you are in the lead!

3/10 voting
Missing: @alleycat03, @WildZoo, @SARdoghandler, @JaggedJimmyJay, @Barkley13, @miranda920, @genny

Vote closes TOMORROW, 3/23, at 10 PM CDT (~26.75 hours).

 

[Lawpy]

@Lawpy's theory from earlier about mighty being told to bus Stagg makes sense UNTIL mighty then moves to stoat a few minutes later and hesitates to move back to Stagg. If the point was to give Stagg a reason to self prez on him later and to give him some clearance from the crossvote, why the heck would mighty move at all?

Because mighty was expecting you, samacs and me to accelerate the Staggs wagon when he initially voted for Staggs. When that didn’t happen and i switched to stoaty, mighty probably felt he screwed up and switched to stoaty to avoid being called out for acting inconsistent to his reads

 

[genny]

What you were referring to with the idea of "both" being the wording.

This:

Their eyes locked and they both gave a small nod. They knew what they had to do.

Write up sounded like it was talking about using iridium to make the bomb that killed Samac. Which could just be mod flair, or could refer to 2 wolves. I’m not sure I should even have brought it up, given that we all seem to be assuming 2 wolves left anyway.

 

[WildZoo]

Because mighty was expecting you, samacs and me to accelerate the Staggs wagon when he initially voted for Staggs. When that didn’t happen and i switched to stoaty, mighty probably felt he screwed up and switched to stoaty to avoid being called out for acting inconsistent to his reads

Idk that switching to stoat would solve that latter issue given he'd just backed off on her lol

 

[WildZoo]

I lost my spot again, RIP

 

[SARdoghandler]

@Lawpy's theory from earlier about mighty being told to bus Stagg makes sense UNTIL mighty then moves to stoat a few minutes later and hesitates to move back to Stagg. If the point was to give Stagg a reason to self prez on him later and to give him some clearance from the crossvote, why the heck would mighty move at all?

It again to me looks like a wolf jumping on a misyeet opportunity because there were 2 villagers voting there and another 2 saying they'd consider it, and then hopping on the next available one when there was less support than expected.

Also this



Again doesn't strike me as something a wolf would push for? Like, you very much don't want to clear Zenge and AM d1, you want to avoid that as long as possible.

I have trouble getting past this too, in that I really feel Stagg is not wolfing in this scenario. Too many small parts that don't make sense as a whole

I feel like I've read this multiple times this game, but other than 1 person being pissed I hammered them, I'm pretty positive none of them were actively protesting me bussing them, especially since it took multiple days for village to even catch the first wolf that game. @SARdoghandler, pretty sure you wolfed that game with me, am I crazy?

I mean, it's not fun being bussed and I didn't ask to be, but I saw the necessity for it since I was super sus especially with my role that game. So I think I just let it roll I think I'd only be pissed if you bussed when I had no sus at all haha

 

[WildZoo]

Looking just at wagons, Stagg, stoat, and Dubz I think were in positions that could counter mighty’s wagon. Not saying they’re all in the pack together. PSV’s timing of moving to my wagon when mighty was going down, not when we were tied, seems less likely as a wolf strategy, though I suppose a WIFOM move is possible. Of them, Stagg’s vote movement right when mighty couldn’t be saved is spooky. Santy is another possible bus. Nate being frozen until right at the end getting on mighty’s wagon also feels off.

Tasty, tasty WIFOM

 

[WildZoo]

@Animal Midwife , here you go:

Knew I would find this game list eventually, nvm on linking your wolf games @Stagg737

 

[SARdoghandler]

I kinda want to vote alley with nothing substantial except for feels. Which I know it's too late for feels

I might try to do some isos soon

 

[Lawpy]

I feel like I've read this multiple times this game, but other than 1 person being pissed I hammered them, I'm pretty positive none of them were actively protesting me bussing them, especially since it took multiple days for village to even catch the first wolf that game. @SARdoghandler, pretty sure you wolfed that game with me, am I crazy?

I mean, it's not fun being bussed and I didn't ask to be, but I saw the necessity for it since I was super sus especially with my role that game. So I think I just let it roll I think I'd only be pissed if you bussed when I had no sus at all haha

It was KC

 

[WildZoo]

Hrm maybe I missed the alley post

 

[WildZoo]

Oh I found it! It was during the night

I’m still concerned about Zenge and a bit about PSV b/c I still feel like she’s trying to control threadstate.

I thought we decided since Vis was acting sketchy she was likely village? What changed last night?

Also this one directed at me

If I can get a tldr from you or anyone else on why so many people went for vis after I left the thread, I would appreciate it

 

[Lawpy]

Idk that switching to stoat would solve that latter issue given he'd just backed off on her lol

I think the idea was mighty initially voted stoaty but moved to self prez because he didn’t think the stoaty wagon was picking traction, then hopped onto Staggs despite barely mentioning him before then switched to stoaty when i went there as he thought maybe the stoaty wagon could pick up speed. Think the last hour of D1 really caught mighty in for a ride

 

[WildZoo]

I think the idea was mighty initially voted stoaty but moved to self prez because he didn’t think the stoaty wagon was picking traction, then hopped onto Staggs despite barely mentioning him before then switched to stoaty when i went there as he thought maybe the stoaty wagon could pick up speed. Think the last hour of D1 really caught mighty in for a ride

Yeah I just don't see why that makes more sense in a wolf!Stagg world than a village!Stagg world

 

[Lawpy]

To be honest, you've spent the past 12 hours finding reasons to find me sus. I'm not feeling confident that presenting my latest reads will change your mind in the last 60 minutes

I wish I had a smoking gun read on a wolf, but I honestly don't. I think the biggest ask for Day 1 is meaningful participation and a desire to wolf hunt, and although my play today wasn't perfect, I still feel that it didn't warrant this level of sus, especially compared to Lucy or Stoat

So you’re wolfreading stoaty despite finding her later posts more informative and better enough for you to unyeet her?

Why would I stay on a yeet when literally nobody else was on board with it? Votes are cheap. If anything, my unyeet caused much more investigation and activity that my yeet did.

It's Day 1, anyone with strong convictions are more suspicious than flip flopping.

@WildZoo

 

[WildZoo]

@WildZoo

I know pls, I just read those posts not that long ago lol my concern is more with like...if he was basically treating the stoat and Stagg wagons similarly, and not touching Vis's wagon at all, then why would we assume that Stagg is a wolf here?

 

[WildZoo]

Ah I guess he did actually self prez on Vis for a bit before the Stagg wagon showed up but I don't think that negates my point

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm sure these have been quoted before but, you know, oof

I mean I've been consistently making exactly the wrong decision lately so
😑

PSV: I am prepared to break the tie

Also PSV: makes a tie

But, I really don't think a wolf!PSV makes that tie unless she is wolfing with exactly Stagg and knew he was going to move to mighty.

I thought about it for a bit and then decided I wanted to make the tie and then see what happened to break the tie

 

[WildZoo]

sifts through my own posts

Conclusion: Jay and SAR still village. I think Lawpy is fine and feel better about Barks. Stagg and PSV are possible but seem unlikely for stated reasons.

So I am left with alley, Miranda, and a mystery genny because I guess I need to reread her posts separately lol

And I'm done with rereading at least for now, got other things to do

 

[Lawpy]

I know pls, I just read those posts not that long ago lol my concern is more with like...if he was basically treating the stoat and Stagg wagons similarly, and not touching Vis's wagon at all, then why would we assume that Stagg is a wolf here?

I don’t think he’s treating the wagons similarly. He tried to go after stoaty (and making detailed cases on her) but ended up feeling like he’s a lone voter. But he jumped onto an existing Staggs wagon when he sensed at least 5 people were entertaining the idea of yeeting Staggs. And Staggs was around at that time and probably suspected he’s in danger to set up the bus plot.

You can check in mighty’s last vote that was unbolded that he was trying to ultimately self prez back into vissy but that failed to materialize. So he’s actually not opposed to bussing his packmates when he had to.

Recall that mighty mentioned vissy barely and only a neutral read on her. As opposed to making extensive cases on stoaty and trying to push a vote there.

 

[Lawpy]

Unyeet stagg yeet vis

This vote @WildZoo

 

[WildZoo]

This vote @WildZoo

Honestly I thought that was intentionally not bolded lol

 

[WildZoo]

I don’t think he’s treating the wagons similarly. He tried to go after stoaty (and making detailed cases on her) but ended up feeling like he’s a lone voter. But he jumped onto an existing Staggs wagon when he sensed at least 5 people were entertaining the idea of yeeting Staggs. And Staggs was around at that time and probably suspected he’s in danger to set up the bus plot.

You can check in mighty’s last vote that was unbolded that he was trying to ultimately self prez back into vissy but that failed to materialize. So he’s actually not opposed to bussing his packmates when he had to.

Recall that mighty mentioned vissy barely and only a neutral read on her. As opposed to making extensive cases on stoaty and trying to push a vote there.

I mean at the time that he was moving his vote around. I maintain it makes zero sense for him to move off Stagg if Stagg had just told him to bus him, just because ONE person moved to stoat when no one else was talking about going there.

 

[WildZoo]

So I am left with alley, Miranda, and a mystery genny because I guess I need to reread her posts separately lol

Still bothered by the mayor vote though sigh

 

[Lawpy]

Honestly I thought that was intentionally not bolded lol

Looked like an accident to me given that these changes happened in a span of a minute

Unless
Unyeet Lucy
Yeet Vis

Ugh, unvote Vis
Vote Mighty

Most humans fear the unknown... - Day 1 Tally


Vis (6) - Zenge, AM, Stagg, stoat, Dubz, PSV
miranda (1) - Barky
Dubz ()
Stagg (4) - Nate, Santy, Lawpy, mighty
mighty (6) - samac, JJJ, Clem, SAR, miranda, Vis
Zenge ()
Santy (1) - Vis
alley ()
Nate ()
lucy (1) - PSV
stoat ()

@Viscernable @mightyrunner7, you are in the lead!

18/19 voting
Missing: @lucy.

Vote closes today, 3/17, at 10 PM CDT (~1 minutes).

Unyeet Stagg
Yeet Mighty

Unyeet Stagg
Yeet Mighty

Unyeet stagg yeet vis

 

[Lawpy]

I mean at the time that he was moving his vote around. I maintain it makes zero sense for him to move off Stagg if Stagg had just told him to bus him, just because ONE person moved to stoat when no one else was talking about going there.

It’s not just my vote that influenced him. He was likely expecting you and samacs to follow by through by switching to Staggs, and felt exposed when that didn’t happen. That’s the thing.

 

[WildZoo]

It’s not just my vote that influenced him. He was likely expecting you and samacs to follow by through by switching to Staggs, and felt exposed when that didn’t happen. That’s the thing.

I know that, I'm saying the move to stoat doesn't make sense in a bussing plot context. It makes more sense in a "ope that stagg misyeet I thought was building isn't happening but here's a chance at this other one" context.

 

[Lawpy]

Oh are we yeeting Stagg? I'd yeet Stagg

Me and Nate are. Rn, you aren't

I’m not opposed

When you and I last minute flash wagon on heavy wolf reads good things happen. EG: Mel

Are you wolf reading stagg???

I'm actually feeling good about this. Quickly glancing over his ISO, I like this more than Vis

Unyeet vis yeet stagg

Wait what

No not particularly lol. He’s null for me, I don’t know that I was heavily reading mel last time either both the wagons felt wrong so I picked someone

Discussion in 5 minutes

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Hmm
Unyeet Stagg

 

[WildZoo]

Looked like an accident to me given that these changes happened in a span of a minute

Depends on whether he saw Nate and Santy move I guess. If he didn't he was probably trying to break the tie, which I would expect from any wolf, doesn't mean he was eager to bus.

 

[WildZoo]

To be fair the move to stoat doesn't make a ton of sense to me either way BUT it makes less sense if there was a bussing plot going on lol

 

[WildZoo]

Yeet alley

 

[Lawpy]

No not particularly lol. He’s null for me, I don’t know that I was heavily reading mel last time either both the wagons felt wrong so I picked someone

10:27 PM EST

Most humans fear the unknown... - Day 1 Tally

View attachment 367922

Vis (5) - Zenge, AM, Stagg, stoat, Dubz
miranda (1) - Barky
Dubz ()
Stagg (3) - Nate, Santy, mighty
mighty (6) - samac, JJJ, Clem, SAR, miranda, Lawpy
Zenge ()
Santy (1) - Vis
alley ()
Nate ()
lucy (2) - PSV, alley
stoat ()

@mightyrunner7, you are in the lead!

18/19 voting
Missing: @lucy.

Vote closes today, 3/17, at 10 PM CDT (~30 minutes).

10:29 PM EST

Hmm

Unyeet mighty
Yeet stoaty

10:33 PM EST

Lawpy, I'm not sure what this experiment is, but I'll bite

Unyeet stagg yeet stoaty

10:35 PM EST

 

[WildZoo]

I gotta go through my own posts again to make sure I didn't come up with some convincing reason why alley couldn't be wolfing and forget about it

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Okay. Hi. Mafia game.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Gonna analyze a bit before I read up on the most recent dialogue to avoid pre-conception and bias