StardeWW 2: Ginger Island - GAME THREAD

[JaggedJimmyJay]

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I'm playing like Clem in all future games

 

[supershorty]

Be Glad You’re A Farmer… Day 4 Tally

Stagg (1) - Lawpy
alley (2) - Stagg, Dubz

@alleycat03 , you are in the lead!

3/10 voting
Missing: @potentialsheltervet, @alleycat03, @SARdoghandler, @JaggedJimmyJay, @Barkley13, @miranda920, @genny

Vote closes TOMORROW, 3/23, at 10 PM CDT (~26 hours).

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Personal to do list after today’s classpocalypse: look into Stagg, genny, miranda, Lawpy

@JaggedJimmyJay that’s you, do it nerd

referencing for my own sake

 

[WildZoo]

I'm playing like Clem in all future games

That was my plan but then all the villagers I was gonna hitch my wagon to had to go and die...

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

was about to ask shorty why you hating, but you are demanding crop tops IT'S NOT HAPPENING

 

[supershorty]

#modsmites4falsepromises

 

[Lawpy]

I know that, I'm saying the move to stoat doesn't make sense in a bussing plot context. It makes more sense in a "ope that stagg misyeet I thought was building isn't happening but here's a chance at this other one" context.

We had 2 wolves leading the vote in an hour to yeet close, so if a third wagon in the wolf!staggs world is materializing and initiated by two villagers and entertained seriously by others, the bus plot was driven out of panic by wolves. The transient nature of the Staggs wagon caught mighty by surprise so he might have thought the bus plot wasn’t needed.

It’s actually not that farfetched because we had Pirate Basics were multiple wolves were on board on D1 that led to frantic wolf activity before the wolves piled onto their packmate genny. Which is why i’m suspecting we’re facing a similar situation here. Wolves weren’t acting rationally because they didn’t anticipate they’d be on the board in D1 right off the bat and acted erratically.

 

[WildZoo]

We had 2 wolves leading the vote in an hour to yeet close, so if a third wagon in the wolf!staggs world is materializing and initiated by two villagers and entertained seriously by others, the bus plot was driven out of panic by wolves. The transient nature of the Staggs wagon caught mighty by surprise so he might have thought the bus plot wasn’t needed.

It’s actually not that farfetched because we had Pirate Basics were multiple wolves were on board on D1 that led to frantic wolf activity before the wolves piled onto their packmate genny. Which is why i’m suspecting we’re facing a similar situation here. Wolves weren’t acting rationally because they didn’t anticipate they’d be on the board in D1 right off the bad and acted erratically.

Okay that's a bit different from how you presented it initially though, which was Stagg actually directing mighty's movements

And genny intentionally drew the votes during that time so the others could be cleared for voting for her, iirc. So a bit different.

 

[WildZoo]

Everything is indeed... A bit different

 

[Lawpy]

Maybe a wolf!Staggs panicked when Nates and Santy quickly shifted to him, then probably prodded mighty to vote him so that he and vissy could shift the votes back to mighty to justify the self prez?

Okay that's a bit different from how you presented it initially though, which was Stagg actually directing mighty's movements

And genny intentionally drew the votes during that time so the others could be cleared for voting for her, iirc. So a bit different.

I brought up the panicking theory this morning

 

[WildZoo]

I brought up the panicking theory this morning

Yes I mean mighty acting of his own accord is different from Stagg prodding him. Also Stagg doesn't strike me as particularly panicky lol yes I do fully believe a wolf!Stagg would have prodded mighty to vote for him under those circumstances. My point is that if he did so it makes little sense for mighty to leave, even if the vote only had two villagers on it, at least until things were more stable. Doesn't make much sense for him to go get on a stoat wagon that only has one other voter and that no one has bitten on otherwise the rest of the day if Stagg just told him to get into good bus positioning.

 

[Lawpy]

Yes I mean mighty acting of his own accord is different from Stagg prodding him. Also Stagg doesn't strike me as particularly panicky lol yes I do fully believe a wolf!Stagg would have prodded mighty to vote for him under those circumstances. My point is that if he did so it makes little sense for mighty to leave, even if the vote only had two villagers on it, at least until things were more stable. Doesn't make much sense for him to go get on a stoat wagon that only has one other voter and that no one has bitten on otherwise the rest of the day if Stagg just told him to get into good bus positioning.

Panic pls. mighty wasn’t acting rationally.

 

[WildZoo]

Panic pls. mighty wasn’t acting rationally.

You think he'd still panic like that even if Stagg was like "VOTE FOR ME" in wolf chat??

 

[genny]

i don't know about panic so much as trying to foment a wafflefest. vote swapping can be contagious.

 

[WildZoo]

I just think you're tunnelled on this Stagg hellbussing plot when like...the much simpler explanation is that he's just village

I do still want to look back at his wolf games and see how deep his packmate interactions got, I'm just not currently feeling it even with his history.

 

[Lawpy]

You think he'd still panic like that even if Stagg was like "VOTE FOR ME" in wolf chat??

I’m pretty sure the wolf chat in an hour before D1 was bursting in flames

So like

OH CRAP WHY ARE WE SCREWED IN D1

VOTE FOR ME

BUT MAYBE NOT MY WAGON ISN’T PICKING UP. WAIT WHAT IS LAWPY DOING? FOLLOW HIM!

 

[Lawpy]

I just think you're tunnelled on this Stagg hellbussing plot when like...the much simpler explanation is that he's just village

I do still want to look back at his wolf games and see how deep his packmate interactions got, I'm just not currently feeling it even with his history.

Because we can’t take that assumption with someone who is known to have a deepwolfing history.

 

[WildZoo]

I promise I have a good reason for asking this question:

DOES ANYONE HAVE A BARN?

 

[genny]

I’m pretty sure the wolf chat in an hour before D1 was bursting in flames

idk. looks like they wanted to avoid getting vis yeeted, and they accomplished that. might not have been so shouty-caps.

 

[WildZoo]

Because we can’t take that assumption with someone who is known to have a deepwolfing history.

I understand that but it doesn't mean he's deepwolfing every time he votes for a wolf or vice versa

 

[genny]

I promise I have a good reason for asking this question:

DOES ANYONE HAVE A BARN?

nope, just walnuts.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Viscernable and Stagg737

From Vis about Stagg

Spoiler

I agree with asking questions but the questions you asked don’t seem useful to me and mostly seem to invite dragging on a fight that could become one of those pretty-off-topic vicious fights that demoralize and exhaust people. But then people don’t always see value in questions I feel are important to ask, so I probably can’t throw too many stones.

Stagg: less of a lowposter than I thought, and I feel like there is probably enough content to start to form a read, at least for people with more experience playing him. I want to read his tone as villagey but I have a high index of suspicion for Stagg from him reportedly being hard to catch as a wolf



Sketchballs. This almost reads kinda villagey to me from how comfortable he feels with jokingly acting sus, but I vaguely remember him acting like this while scumming (what game?? No idea) and lots of veterans say he’s hard to tone read.

I felt like this was a good question as Santy’s original post didn’t explicitly say “both easy to read and no bussing meta would be ideal”. The followup argument once that was clear seem like NAI general WW philosophy and I don’t see the relevance to the current game, plus bordered on rude about other players’ skill at times, so I’m not interested in it.

But one thing that’s bugging me is that he early on seemed to be objecting to voting someone based on no-bussing-meta “versus” being an easy read, and this lead into him arguing that no-bussing makes an easy read. Staggs, if you think that makes someone an easy read, what was the holdup with the idea of no-bussing being a good mayor quality? You even recognize this later:

So I don’t get why the argument happened in the first place.

I don’t get the objection to noob!mayor, imo often noobs are more co-operative and less prone to main character syndrome/hero-play BS, and although yeah noobs can be unpredictable to read I think on average noob wolves are caught more often than experienced wolves. Plus they’re fun to watch enjoying being mayor.

I wouldn’t hate it

Looking just at wagons, Stagg, stoat, and Dubz I think were in positions that could counter mighty’s wagon. Not saying they’re all in the pack together. PSV’s timing of moving to my wagon when mighty was going down, not when we were tied, seems less likely as a wolf strategy, though I suppose a WIFOM move is possible. Of them, Stagg’s vote movement right when mighty couldn’t be saved is spooky. Santy is another possible bus. Nate being frozen until right at the end getting on mighty’s wagon also feels off.

Green - Vis had pooped on my question-asking ways a bit early in the game, so this is isn't explicitly about Stagg. But my questions were directed to Stagg and AM, so there's an indirect relation. Technically this does represent interference with my questioning of Stagg then.

Red - Vis said a lot of words here without really providing a clear perspective. I can't tell if the prevailing message was meant to be positive or negative about Stagg. I would feel better with less two-siding and ambiguity in this commentary.

Orange - This last post is a whole cobb salad of names and perspectives that I find pretty difficult to parse. I think some amount of suspicion is being leveled upon all of Stagg, bluestoat, Dubz, PSV, Santy, and Nate simultaneously. Most of these people have already flipped non-mafia, so we can consider the Stagg, PSV, Dubz group as a sort of laborious rule of three (or rule of six) situation. I grant that's a bit of a reach.

From Stagg about Vis

Spoiler

My mush brain needs time to go back and reread, but not gonna do that with 38 pages today, but general thoughts...


Vote Vis

Felt like she was throwing shade to see what stuck. Lots of people felt she was sus but backed off because...lots of people noticed she was sus? Plus her flipping would give more info looking back.

I don't mind a Mighty flip and can see the reasoning, but I think a Vis flip provides more info.

@lucy. , where are you? Irl happens, but I don't like the low posting, especially after saying she'd be around. If not becoming more active, may become a policy vote tomorrow...

Also agree that stoat has some wolf leans, but mush brain can't recall why at the moment.

What do you think of the new dartboard with Vis taking the lead?


Info on you and Zenge which can then be used to gauge interactions, and I think Zenge has a lot of potentially relevant interactions so far.

I did not say that. Vis flipping wolf would be very helpful immediately. I think VIS flipping village would still give useful info based on Vis' interactions, but I'd have to go back and iso.

You serious?


Eh, semi-fair. The info would come later, but true of any village flip now. VIS is still at the top of my list right now though.

I was asking if you thought electing someone based on a no bus meta was BETTER than electing someone you can easily read. Not that a no bussing meta is a bad thing for a mayor, which is what VIS is trying to say that I said. Which I didn't.

I'm not going to go back and iso all of the VIS's interactions right now since I'm trying to leave work, but I will if she flips.

Early game there's less info, but you can look back on VCA easier in late game when there's enough movement around ties (unless the leaders today all end up village, but still possible to be helpful). Can look at movement tomorrow though too, which is part of why I moved. More measured movement to build or derail wagons gives more to analyze tomorrow as opposed to just last minute waffles which may or may not be very useful if wolves slip up. Vote tracker can say a lot.

Specifically here, plenty of commentary on VIS being sus but "oh, look how many people find her sus so she's probably village". I'd be interested in looking back on people who said she was sus but didn't vote there or moved off regardless of how she flips.

I do care wht Vis flips, and if she flips wolf I think it will provide A LOT of important info. She’s also a top wolf read for me, I don’t understand what the issue is?

You’ve moved into my wolf leans and the repeated defense of VIS is very concerning to me. Vis flipping village would give you some credit, Vis flipping wolf makes you a top vote for me tomorrow.

A specific piece of info gained from a Vis flip (since you wanted specifics) would be moving moving Zenge and AM into solid village if she slips wolf. And you’re one of those I’d get a lot more info about through interactions with them.

I did say I thought Vis was more likely to be a wolf. Did everybody miss that?

Meh, fair thought but not the main point of my vote. You and AM were the ones who wanted to dig into what info we’d gain and made it a main point. I’ve said my reasons for Vis multiple times, and the reason I’m there is she’s my strongest wolf read. The extra potential info is just bonus.

Ugh, unvote Vis
Vote Mighty

Santy has had both Mighty and Vis in his village leans all of yesterday.

I never defended Mighty. Vis and Mighty were my top wolf reads, I said multiple times I'd rather see a Vis flip. If you want to consider that defending Mighty, idk. I still want a Vis flip, but will be reassessing since we flipped a wolf.

Those weren't me defending Mighty, those were me being annoyed that we didn't vote Vis. Turns out things worked out well, but I still want to see a Vis flip.

I would be okay with that too as I think a Santy or Vis flip gives some solid info on the other, there's been some weird stuff with Santy. Villlage leaning both Mighty and Vis, white-knighting for Vis then Vis votes for Santy?, then the weird waffles from (I believe Mighty) to me then back to Mighty at the end. I have a lot of re-reading on Santy to do because I'm honestly just confused by the things I'm remembering there.

Green - I don't think I typically see mafia distance from their teammates with "information elimination" as the reason. When that's an act of evil, it is usually a cheap way to justify a miss-elimination. That's decent for Stagg, granted it requires some presumption on my part. We should also consider the Vis-over-mighty push that Stagg had adopted. We know both mafia roles -- vanilla-izer thing and lightning doom thing. Within the context of this setup the latter (Vis's role) might be stronger, just for screwing up numerous people's crops. Both pack a punch.

Red - Stagg was not shy about making it known early and often that Vis was a top priority to be eliminated. They might have been louder about this than anyone, really, perhaps short of Zenge (who isn't the "loud" type, as far as I can tell). Purely being "right" is worth less in the current climate, and bussing must be considered. One thing that gives me a little hope here is that Stagg's posture on Vis didn't budge at all after mighty was eliminated and flipped mafia. The mafia team was bleeding fast to start this game, and I don't know that they'd be eager to open the wound even more if they don't have to do so. It's even possible that the climate against Vis that Stagg contributed to pushed the vigilante shot onto Vis and gave us two dead mafia before a single town member dropped. I think this is positive for Stagg on balance.

Conclusion

This is a case where it depends upon which direction you're going when you view the interaction. I think Vis's comments are shaky, and I think Stagg's comments are solid. I am inclined to lean toward the latter being the more meaningful interpretation. The nice thing is that there's a ton to discuss, so let's.

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Halfway through compiling that analysis, my Indian food dinner began to present me with consequences.

BRB.

 

[Lawpy]

I promise I have a good reason for asking this question:

DOES ANYONE HAVE A BARN?

Not me. I only have walnuts that i’m trying to see what i can do with them

 

[WildZoo]

(⁠╯⁠°⁠□⁠°⁠）⁠╯⁠︵⁠ ⁠┻⁠━⁠┻

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Interactions of Viscernable and potentialsheltervet

Trimmed because my computer screen was blowing up, but you can click back to the post. I would appreciate if anyone could provide me their feedback about my conclusions in this one. It seems important to me, but it's also critical that my view of "important" be sound.

 

[Stagg737]

Hmmmmmm

Okay team, do we feel like Stagg did this kind of follow up after Vis flipped?

I completely forgot about this, but I want to go back and check this out now.

 

[genny]

ftfy

 

[genny]

i think i want to yeet psv. for the way vis pointed out psv's vote switch.

 

[WildZoo]

Trimmed because my computer screen was blowing up, but you can click back to the post. I would appreciate if anyone could provide me their feedback about my conclusions in this one. It seems important to me, but it's also critical that my view of "important" be sound.

I agree with your conclusions there and it's the same thing I decided on after rereading today.

Yes, it's likely the tie would be broken, but she voted really close to deadline so it was still risky. I think I said earlier that unless the remaining wolves are exactly PSV/Stagg and she knew that Stagg would be moving from Vis to mighty, that's a dangerous move that could have gotten 3 wolves killed in one shot because of the tie mechanics.

Hell it would be nutty even in that case and I just don't see the point in risking it. Too much chaos at end of day.

 

[WildZoo]

Lol genny

 

[supershorty]

ftfy

omg I'm laughing so hard at this

 

[potentialsheltervet]

i think i want to yeet psv. for the way vis pointed out psv's vote switch.

For the hmm?

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

it would be nutty

would it be

walnutty

ugh, the whole point of this post was to end it with that blue "eek" face everyone is always posting on discord, but I can't find it so nevermind whatever

 

[potentialsheltervet]

would it be

walnutty

ugh, the whole point of this post was to end it with that blue "eek" face everyone is always posting on discord, but I can't find it so nevermind whatever

Eek sadly is not here.

 

[WildZoo]

would it be

walnutty

ugh, the whole point of this post was to end it with that blue "eek" face everyone is always posting on discord, but I can't find it so nevermind whatever

It originated here (or...well this was the first place I saw it) but was taken from us

I have it saved to my phone for this reason

 

[WildZoo]

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I'm still trying to make alley's bodyguarding make sense

 

[JaggedJimmyJay]

 

[WildZoo]

I'm still trying to make alley's bodyguarding make sense

Mechanics bad idk

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Unless they were for some reason not targeting samac N1 and holstered instead for some unbeknownst reason??

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Mechanics bad idk

I just really don't get it.
Unless alley isn't actually a bodyguard...?

 

[WildZoo]

Unless they were for some reason not targeting samac N1 and holstered instead for some unbeknownst reason??

Idk fam
Or something else happened that we haven't accounted for. Idk.

 

[WildZoo]

I just really don't get it.
Unless alley isn't actually a bodyguard...?

She's some kind of protection thing based on the notification I got, although I am not 100% sure why samac assumed bodyguard before alley revealed, if we got the same result flavor

 

[potentialsheltervet]

She's some kind of protection thing based on the notification I got, although I am not 100% sure why samac assumed bodyguard before alley revealed, if we got the same result flavor

Did samac say bodyguard before alley did?

 

[WildZoo]

Did samac say bodyguard before alley did?

She said it to me but not on thread, until she was confirming alley's claim. I'd have to look back through our PM for exactly what she said, that'll have to be a tomorrow project.

 

[Barkley13]

I promise I have a good reason for asking this question:

DOES ANYONE HAVE A BARN?

I should have a barn but I guess it wasn’t confirmed 🤔

 

[Barkley13]

I’m just wondering what the neck licking is about

 

[Barkley13]

I should have a barn but I guess it wasn’t confirmed 🤔

Ok yeah I definitely have a barn

 

[Stagg737]

@Stagg737 what were your wolf games again?

Sea Monsters, Noob game, Family tree, AHS, and ice cream were the ones I actually played. OG wolf in Sea Monsters and ice cream only I believe.

Be Glad You’re A Farmer… Day 4 Tally

Stagg (2) - PSV, Lawpy

@Stagg737, you are in the lead! If we can call it that with only 1 person on the board.

2/10 voting
Missing: @alleycat03, @WildZoo, @Stagg737, @SARdoghandler, @JaggedJimmyJay, @Barkley13, @miranda920, @genny

Vote closes TOMORROW, 3/23, at 10 PM CDT (~27.25 hours).

Hey! Don’t you try and steal my lead! #winningatsomething…