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Oh no I've been on and off worried he's in a cult all day, it's just mostly a conversation for our role pm
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StardeWW Valley - GAME THREAD
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WildZoo
Noble Dubz Dictator, Unyeetable Phasing Wolf
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Ok so basically you're in a tunnel at this point?
If that's where we're at I'm ok directing my posts at others. I think it's best for both of our constitutions if I don't try to convince you of something you're not going to be convinced of.
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Now, here's the obvious: genny is unlikely to be a wolf due to her crashing in and last-minute ensuring kdswg was yoten. So, it could be argued that AM moved genny out of her POE because genny apparently doesn't typically bus, so AM saw her as unlikely to be a wolf and didn't think she could push a villager (or wolf, I guess it probably doesn't matter much to the cultists) misyeet. But. My theory is genny is the cult leader and quietly converted AM, likely N1. AM then wouldn't want anyone to vote for genny and, you know, kill the cult leader. Maybe this is a bit too tinfoily since the simplest explanation is genny is a villager, but in a game where my POE is in shambles? I'm going with genny is the cult leader.
I mean, I’m happy to move elsewhere today too. I’m just also 99% sure you’re scum and I feel most comfortable placing my vote on someone I feel confident about whereas I’m more 50/50 on whether I’m yeeting a villager on my other options here.
Clearly you’re not out of the POE for just about anyone and I’m not the only person who independently made these considerations.
It would make little sense for a wolf, but at that point none of us knew there was a third faction so I don't see it as clearing her from cultyness. But I still think genny is the greater priority and hopefully the cult leader.
Would it matter for her as a cultist who's wolf and who's villager? I don't really know the nitty gritty of wolves vs cultists as far as meeting wincons when another scum faction is alive but knowing "not a cultist" should be a good enough reason for AM to at least not be actively defending genny in my view. I don't see the point of that when AM had to have known the wolfpack would take her out soon since she was being so universally village read.
I mentioned yesterday that genny is well within my POE so I’ll try to read there tomorrow while I’m at work.
But don’t expect me to be happy about it. I hate reading genny.
If I had to choose a second vote to be on right now, it would be stoat.
But don’t expect me to be happy about it. I hate reading genny.
If I had to choose a second vote to be on right now, it would be stoat.
WildZoo
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It makes no sense as a Cult Leader either, which she would have had to have been at that time to be associated with the cult, since it was d1.
WildZoo
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That's the same as saying wolves don't defend villagers, and we know they do.
I think Shelty is assuming AM wasn't converted on d1... So it started as a villager reading the room and then she became a cultist cow
I would really like to see genny's responses though
WildZoo
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If you're 99% sure then I'm not sure why you would move anywhere else. But that's what I was wondering. I'm just not interested in fighting with you if it's just going to go in circles.
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WildZoo
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That post was talking about you, not AM
WildZoo
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Wait, genny was still in your POE yesterday? Why?
Good lord I'm tired, goodnight y'all, you're getting the knockoff nikes version of me apparently
Because the cycle is still young? It’s not like I can’t change my mind about you or anyone else.
I dislike the implication that I’m in a tunnel when I have tried to go about my suspicions as kindly as possible and I’m not the only one sitting here with you in the POE.
Was she not in yours?
She’s been in my POE the entire game on the basis of being genny.
I stated it last night in the post where I typed your name really small. You just clearly only read the only part you weren’t supposed to read 😛
From D1:
This was to bob:
In response to true:
Talking about true:
So basically I'm just more conflicted now because as shelty just showed, AM's read on genny progressed. But also:
- D1 had dubz lowest on her list, next day still had her in the POE but wasn't really pushing and said she wasn't ready to vote there
- Was really pushing shelty D2 (I think?) but never followed up on it and later didn't like that bob was pushing shelty
- Defended true a few times
So AM's posts didn't really rule anyone out and now I'm more confused
Do you feel confident ranking the players you mentioned from least to most suspicious?
1. @potentialsheltervet - unlikely to be wolf, can be cultist (AM pushed a little, then backed off and seem to think better of?)
6. @genny - likely not wolf, AM's read changed over time to be more favorable
7. @WildZoo - can be either, was in AM's POE but not pushed or voted for
11. @Truenamer - can be either, AM defended
13. @Barkley13 - me
14. @SportPonies - can also be either? claims vanillager
16. @bluestoat - can also be either, also claims vanillager
omg idk I need help
6. @genny - likely not wolf, AM's read changed over time to be more favorable
7. @WildZoo - can be either, was in AM's POE but not pushed or voted for
11. @Truenamer - can be either, AM defended
13. @Barkley13 - me
14. @SportPonies - can also be either? claims vanillager
16. @bluestoat - can also be either, also claims vanillager
omg idk I need help
WildZoo
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Sigh. I'm literally trying to avoid exactly what is happening so I'm just going to stop i guess. What I have seen so far is you say something, I say something, you say that doesn't change anything. If that's all that is going to happen then, again, I'd rather not give you or myself an ulcer. I'm not trying to insinuate that you're arguing in bad faith, I'm trying to gauge whether it is worth the fight. You're not technically out of my Cult POE but I do think you're village. But if you are 99% sure I am scum then I don't see how anything I say to you is going to change anything.
I guess I am also bothered that you keep bringing up that I hesitated in supporting Zenge's tunnel on you, as if the only situation where I would be bothered by the idea of misyeeting you is if I were scum. And that's simply not true. You can look back and see when the last time was that I followed through on voting you out if you like. So if that's going to keep being used as a thing then I'd rather just...not.
WildZoo
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I'm like that sometimes
And this is what I meant about AM’s reads as scum not being all black and white to interpret.
Short of her pushing a vote hard, I don’t think that using her reads is, unfortunately, going to be a yellow brick road to other cult members.
WildZoo
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No, I moved her out of my POE based on the kdswg vote.
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Truenamer
Toothy, Furry Villager
Oh, a thought just occurred to me
I've laid out my reasoning (and Dubz concurs) about why it's really important that we target cult first (at the very least the cult leader) then take care of the last wolf.
Assuming that there's only one wolf left, they might not have anyone to game out the optimal night kill with.
So depending on the results of our yeet, we should probably game out the best anti-Cult wolf nightkill.
The wolf isn't going to win if the Cult runs unabated either, so in theory helping them figure out the best anti-cult NK is something we can agree on with them.
Just food for thought.
I've laid out my reasoning (and Dubz concurs) about why it's really important that we target cult first (at the very least the cult leader) then take care of the last wolf.
Assuming that there's only one wolf left, they might not have anyone to game out the optimal night kill with.
So depending on the results of our yeet, we should probably game out the best anti-Cult wolf nightkill.
The wolf isn't going to win if the Cult runs unabated either, so in theory helping them figure out the best anti-cult NK is something we can agree on with them.
Just food for thought.
I think the problem is that it's hard to rule anyone out as being compatible with AM since everyone she voted for is already dead
I like this list.
Personally I think tomorrow I will consider things without leaning on the AM list, to create another angle of approach. We have multiple sets of views on this now from the "let's analyse our one cultist" direction, and that's good.
Truenamer
Toothy, Furry Villager
Her position on the kds vote makes her ironclad "not a wolf" for me. If she is, then no offense, but she's an absolutely terrible wolf.
I don't see any reason why she can't be a cultist though.
I don't understand. Are you saying we should suggest who the NK should be? I don't see that working out well
This isn't a bad idea, it's part of why I wanted to work on collabing here. The wolf (wolves?) know who they are and have the most possible information on where to act. We'd just have to hope they don't want a competing faction any more than we do
WildZoo
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I still think in not considering who AM had in her POE there isn't enough thought being given to how vital a Cult Leader is to the Cult wincon.
We also have to narrow things down on something. I mean, we can go in circles forever about how everyone is in the POE, but that's not necessarily helpful.
I really need to actually go to bed but I would encourage people to go look at how AM has treated packmates in previous games.
We also have to narrow things down on something. I mean, we can go in circles forever about how everyone is in the POE, but that's not necessarily helpful.
I really need to actually go to bed but I would encourage people to go look at how AM has treated packmates in previous games.
I did see this, I just need to think about it more
I will reevaluate tomorrow when my brain is less fried. And it’s not that I took your hesitation as only possible in a scum world, that’s just something that kept crossing my mind with those particular posts. I think I even said that it’s not necessarily AI; it just made me think.
WildZoo
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That's why I specifically asked about sporty's POE yesterday, before the cult was known to exist
Truenamer
Toothy, Furry Villager
I absolutely am. I think we should logic through, here in the open, who the remaining wolf should kill.
I think that they will agree with us as long as we are being clear about our mutual objective- stopping the cult before it can grow and win the game. Because the cult is like, one or two cycles from winning the game.
I think-- and he can clarify-- that our results can help a lonely wolf try to think on their own by producing group analyses that the wolf might not have anymore. The theory he is using here is that it would be mutually beneficial for the wolfpack and the village to scumhunt the cult faction, and his core assumption is that the wolves would actually care.
Okay lol you're more extreme than me. Seems like it breaks the rules of the game a little in that it places too much trust in the altruism of a competing faction, but why not?
Truenamer
Toothy, Furry Villager
The problem is that if the cult leader is, for example, genny, AM didn't need to have any interactions with her because she basically hasn't been around.
Oh boy I WW’d too late again and now I’m not tired.
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WildZoo
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I'm not sure it's actually in woof's best interest to kill a Cultist if we vote out the leader, I'd have to look back at my math but I think they'd still want to kill village. So I don't think that collaboration would go well lol
Truenamer
Toothy, Furry Villager
Just to make sure I'm clear, I don't expect the last wolf to out themselves or anything. I just think that, if they want a chance to win the game, it is in their best interest to work with us to figure out cultist targets for their night kill. And it is in our best interest as the village to help them figure out cultist targets for the night kill.
Basically, I like all of you guys and one of you is the wolf and I'm hoping that the part of you that usually plays village will be happy to work with us like you normally do to solve a problem, and then you can go back to slaughtering us in our sleep.
Truenamer
Toothy, Furry Villager
It still would be because the Cult has a factional victory when they're 50% of the remaining players whether or not the cult leader is still around (unless the moddesses did screwy stuff with the rules).
Village doesn't have that factional trigger.
So if it's one wolf, one villager, and two normal cultists left, cultists win on the spot.
But if it's a wolf, two villagers, and one cultist, it's still anyone's game.
I'm assuming that the wolf in our midst will understand that, and so I want to give them the tools they need through open discussion.
