The Republic of Texas XXIII: Our State Can Beat Up Your State

[savant]

I guess there are really just nuanced differences in the curricula in the first two years; what I really like about UTSW is Parkland and how 3rd and 4th years is structured. True, it may not be as "shiny" as some of the other schools, but I just like the idea of working at a county hospital that serves as large of an area as Dallas- Parkland gets some really weird pathologies. The one thing I think really sets UTSW apart from the other schools is that the med students actually take 30-36 hour call as an MS3, and while I'm sure that's exhausting, it just sounds like a great experience from an educational standpoint. Also, research has always been important to me, and I think UTSW is the best place in the state to do research, even better than Baylor.

I guess I'm kind of personally invested in UTSW, having done research there for 2 summers; I think the things that truly set it apart are probably the chance to take call as an MS3 and MS4 and the research, and the rest is all probably personal attachment It just "feels" right for me.

One of the tour guides at UTH mentioned having 30-hr(+?) shift(s?) in her (surgery?) rotation. Something similar at A&M, although my interviewer kept stressing that it did not happen.

The benefits of being on call, as I have heard, are that (1) you get a taste of what its like to be a resident (2) you get to observe patients throughout the duration of their treatment/stay at hospital rather than leaving before they get discharged.

Being on-call is also a big plus in my opinion, but my understanding was that at least those two other (than UTSW) schools have that option...?

Also, it seems like LBJ is a part of the Harris county hospital system, and so it sort of corresponds to Parkland in that way (although I don't think it's as highly regarded).

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[htownpremie]

my sister is a current MS3 at UTH, and they do take call.

 

[Brooke12]

I think most residents would laugh at pre-meds/med students who WANT to take call in med school. I think UTSW is smart, they trick their students into thinking taking call is a good thing in med school and get another source of free labor for Parkland.

 

[CourageKid]

I think most residents would laugh at pre-meds/med students who WANT to take call in med school. I think UTSW is smart, they trick their students into thinking taking call is a good thing in med school and get another source of free labor for Parkland.

Personally, I'd rather get experience taking call as a med student, where the expectations are much lower, than show up as an intern without ever having experienced it and suddenly be thrust into it.

I've done night calls taking care of disabled individuals and it gets more comfortable the more times you do it. When you've worked all day, will work all the next day and it's 4 am and **** is hitting the fan, it's good to have prior experience to draw on. So I'm not jumping for joy at the thought of taking call as a med student, but I hope that I end up doing it.

 

[danny317]

i have a quick question.

i was emailed on 1/2/09 w/ an offer to interview at tech lubbock. the link to merlin wasnt working so i notified the office. they said to keep trying. ive tried and tried but the link still doesnt work. its already 6 days past my deadline to schedule an interview. ive emailed tech to let them know that ive been trying but their link still doesnt work.

the odd thing is that i can still log into merlin for foster som but there is no option to schedule an interview for lubbock...

anyone have the same problem?

 

[armybound]

i have a quick question.

i was emailed on 1/2/09 w/ an offer to interview at tech lubbock. the link to merlin wasnt working so i notified the office. they said to keep trying. ive tried and tried but the link still doesnt work. its already 6 days past my deadline to schedule an interview. ive emailed tech to let them know that ive been trying but their link still doesnt work.

the odd thing is that i can still log into merlin for foster som but there is no option to schedule an interview for lubbock...

anyone have the same problem?

I would probably get on the phone and try to get it rectified ASAP...

 

[armybound]

Personally, I'd rather get experience taking call as a med student, where the expectations are much lower, than show up as an intern without ever having experienced it and suddenly be thrust into it.

I've done night calls taking care of disabled individuals and it gets more comfortable the more times you do it. When you've worked all day, will work all the next day and it's 4 am and **** is hitting the fan, it's good to have prior experience to draw on. So I'm not jumping for joy at the thought of taking call as a med student, but I hope that I end up doing it.

This reminds me of my wife trying to tell me that I need to start getting less sleep so I can get used to being sleep-deprived.

I'll lose enough sleep in my residency. I don't need to start it now. Similarly, I will adjust to call as a resident. There's no need to adjust to it prematurely.

 

[da8s0859q]

i have a quick question.

i was emailed on 1/2/09 w/ an offer to interview at tech lubbock. the link to merlin wasnt working so i notified the office. they said to keep trying. ive tried and tried but the link still doesnt work. its already 6 days past my deadline to schedule an interview. ive emailed tech to let them know that ive been trying but their link still doesnt work.

the odd thing is that i can still log into merlin for foster som but there is no option to schedule an interview for lubbock...

anyone have the same problem?

Definitely.

Hell, it's 01/14. I'd be surprised if they're still interviewing.

 

[danny317]

Definitely.

Hell, it's 01/14. I'd be surprised if they're still interviewing.

yeah i was a little confused when i received the initial email...

maybe i would be interviewing for a waitlist position.

thats if i can still schedule an interview...

 

[savant]

This reminds me of my wife trying to tell me that I need to start getting less sleep so I can get used to being sleep-deprived.

I'll lose enough sleep in my residency. I don't need to start it now. Similarly, I will adjust to call as a resident. There's no need to adjust to it prematurely.

imo, it's not really about getting comfortable with staying up all night.

the idea behind rotations is to get an idea about the different fields so you can make a career choice. as a hospitalist, you have to keep your patients alive day and night, and you get to see that aspect of that career during night call. you figure out if you want a career in which that is a component. in comparison, you don't have that aspect in psych rotation..

the cases that come in during night are different than day..

you see more continuous patient care...

 

[armybound]

imo, it's not really about getting comfortable with staying up all night.

the idea behind rotations is to get an idea about the different fields so you can make a career choice. as a hospitalist, you have to keep your patients alive day and night, and you get to see that aspect of that career during night call. you figure out if you want a career in which that is a component. in comparison, you don't have that aspect in psych rotation..

the cases that come in during night are different than day..

you see more continuous patient care...

so shadow at night. I doubt anyone will turn you down. you're going to be watching residents at night, not attendings. I don't see how that's going to give you insight into what you'll be doing as an attending for the rest of your life.

I just don't think call as a med student is the way to find your true calling or necessary for you to be a decent resident.

 

[GoSpursGo]

So you're going to UTSW then?

Ironically, despite my apparent connections at the school, I haven't been accepted I really liked my interview at Baylor too, so I'd have to think long and hard between the two if I got in both places.

Sorry if I was wrong about UTSW being unique about having med students take call... in any case, that is one plus that they have that some other schools don't have.

I guess if you forget the rankings, most schools are really mostly the same; the only thing that really stands out about UTSW may be the research opportunities there. I guess it feels like a cop-out, but I don't have anything else that I can definitively point to UTSW and lay a finger on as being "better" than the other TX schools- they're all great; so I guess the moral is just go to whichever school "feels" right and makes the most financial sense

 

[DrSno]

GoSpursGo, seeing as how UTSW and Baylor are your top choices, are you sure that national ranking isn't a larger contributing factor to your choice than you think? That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, despite what some people here say.

One of my interviewers at UTMB said he gets anrgry when people try to say UTSW is better than them. He said Baylor is a different story, but that UTSW getting such praise irks him. I've always thought that to be the case too.

 

[GoSpursGo]

GoSpursGo, seeing as how UTSW and Baylor are your top choices, are you sure that national ranking isn't a larger contributing factor to your choice than you think? That wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing, despite what some people here say.

One of my interviewers at UTMB said he gets anrgry when people try to say UTSW is better than them. He said Baylor is a different story, but that UTSW getting such praise irks him. I've always thought that to be the case too.

Am I sure? No. But I think that the main reason why UTSW is one of my top two is that my PI from my undergrad research is there . I guess having been there for two summers may have caused me to buy into some of the hype a little more than most, but even if I accept that all of the med schools in Texas are equally good, I would obviously have very good personal reasons for wanting to go there to continue my research.

Obviously, if you feel that there's another school that "felt" better for you during your interview, by all means go there. The one place that I do think that UTSW stands out is in research, so if that's important to you I think that should factor into your decision; other than Baylor, UTMB is really the only school that I think can rival UTSW in terms of research power, and in that case I'd say make your choice based on how you feel about PBL and how you feel about Galveston right now- I know that all signs point to Galveston coming back from Ike, but it's something that has to be considered.

Baylor was an entirely different animal because it's the one school that can truly claim to have a unique curriculum; the condensed pre-clinical curriculum and the access to the TMC are really what attracted me during my interview there.

I'm sorry if anyone sees me touting UTSW as just going by the rankings, as that's really not what I'm trying to do- I've just developed personal connections at UTSW that predispose me to favor that school and perhaps cause me to see everything there through rose-colored glasses.

 

[wedogogirl]

Hello, all.

Definitely do not choose a school based solely on national or even the perceived reputation of the school. You have to select the school that you feel will give you the best medical education, that meets your personal criteria, and that just feels right to you.

I received an invitation to interview at Baylor on 2/6, but I am turning the invitation down. By God's grace, I have already received 4 MD acceptances, including my top choice UTSW. I know that I am upsetting the SDN Texas room universe by acknowledging that the world does not revolve around Baylor, but I have had my mind and heart set on UTSW for months. I was VERY impressed with the teaching facilities, the curriculum, the student body, and the faculty. Additionally, for family reasons and very personal reasons, being located in Dallas is the best option for me.

So, the moral of the story is...follow your instincts...not rankings or perceived rankings.

 

[savant]

He said Baylor is a different story, but that UTSW getting such praise irks him. I've always thought that to be the case too.

Why?

 

[DrSno]

Definitely do not choose a school based solely on national or even the perceived reputation of the school.

What good and original advice! Thank you so much for that.

 

[DrSno]

Why?

Their curriculum is old-fashioned and unnecessarily stressful. Their board scores are basically the same as UTMB's even though they accept people with higher stats. Baylor is actually a good school while UTSW is much more about hype.

 

[wedogogirl]

What good and original advice! Thank you so much for that.

You are more than welcome. ahem. glad i could be of some help. HA.

 

[savant]

Their curriculum is old-fashioned and unnecessarily stressful. Their board scores are basically the same as UTMB's even though they accept people with higher stats. Baylor is actually a good school while UTSW is much more about hype.

I don't know much about Baylor, since I didn't apply there, but what do you think is 'hyped' about UTSW?

 

[GoSpursGo]

I don't know much about Baylor, since I didn't apply there, but what do you think is 'hyped' about UTSW?

I think what he's trying to say is that UTSW appears much higher in the national rankings than other TX schools when it's difficult to point to anything in particular that's demonstrably better than other schools (in some peoples' opinions).

Personally, UTSW's research capabilities are a big reason why I love the school; possibly UTMB can rival them, but then you have to ask whether you think Galveston's going to come back all the way (again, I THINK they will, but it's a quesiton everyone should at least ask themselves). You also have to ask whether you prefer PBL or the "old-fashioned" curriculum. Finally, I think it's a hard sell that Galveston's hospital situation is as good as Parkland and the associated hospitals in Dallas in the wake of Ike. Also, keep in mind that part of the rankings are derived from Residency Director's Ratings, so even if it's just a perceived superiority, it's one that may matter someday when a residency director is evaluating your application- actually, UTSW has outranked even Baylor in this measure in recent years.

Again, everyone should make their own decisions, but I think right now if research is important for you as a med student, Baylor and UTSW are the places to be. If it's not important to you, then by all means go wherever you feel your needs are best met.

 

[DrSno]

what do you think is 'hyped' about UTSW?

My interviewer and I agreed that their medical education is hyped. He mentioned the same things I had always heard and wrote in my posting that you quoted. UTSW is higher ranked than UTMB and UTH largely because they get more research funding. That's not important to all that many med students. As future med students we should be primarily concerned with two aspects of the school: their board performance and the way they are going to teach us medicine, the curriculum. On board score performance UTMB and UTSW are ~equal. With respect to curriculum, UTMB is better hands down.

 

[Brooke12]

Anyone waiting until tomorrow to rank pre-match offers?

 

[CourageKid]

My interviewer and I agreed that their medical education is hyped. He mentioned the same things I had always heard and wrote in my posting that you quoted. UTSW is higher ranked than UTMB and UTH largely because they get more research funding. That's not important to all that many med students. As future med students we should be primarily concerned with two aspects of the school: their board performance and the way they are going to teach us medicine, the curriculum. On board score performance UTMB and UTSW are ~equal. With respect to curriculum, UTMB is better hands down.

For you, maybe that is the case. Personally, I'm not that big of a fan of PBL and would not attend a school that relies heavily on it. I like lecture. Everyone learns differently and likes different things.

 

[savant]

For you, maybe that is the case. Personally, I'm not that big of a fan of PBL and would not attend a school that relies heavily on it. I like lecture. Everyone learns differently and likes different things.

Well, UTMB does have impressive board scores... So long as you judge curriculum by the results it produces, I think that at least statistically it makes sense. Of course, you could end up doing worse under their system if you aren't suited to it...

 

[CourageKid]

Well, UTMB does have impressive board scores... So long as you judge curriculum by the results it produces, I think that at least statistically it makes sense. Of course, you could end up doing worse under their system if you aren't suited to it...

Absolutely. UTMB is a great school. So is Southwestern. My point was that I don't think you can say one curriculum is definitively better than the other because it is really an individual preference.

 

[Brooke12]

YOU determine your own board score, period. Saying that a med school helps you achieve better board scores is like saying certain undergrads help you achieve better MCAT scores. All an institution can do is present the material and you have to digest it, regurgitate it, and get your own board score.

Southwestern's board average may be high because they accept a greater percentage of strong standardized test takers as evident by a high MCAT average.

UTMB's average may be higher than it should be because rumor has it they discourage weak test takers from taking the board exam on time with the rest of the class. Who knows.

Ultimately it all rests on your shoulders. Going to UTMB is not going to magically add 20 points to your board score if you're an average student. That will probably only come if you put in 20% more effort.

 

[utjsm08]

Does anyone know what the point is of having our rankings in by tomorrow and not being able to see the match result until 15 days later?

 

[DrSno]

YOU determine your own board score, period. Saying that a med school helps you achieve better board scores is like saying certain undergrads help you achieve better MCAT scores.

You are falling prey to a strong internal locus of control theory. The school you go to and how they teach the material does affect your test performance. That being said, intelligence also obviously plays a significant role too. That's part of the reason UTSW and Baylor have such high scores.

 

[savant]

Does anyone know what the point is of having our rankings in by tomorrow and not being able to see the match result until 15 days later?

Are you saying you don't enjoy the suspense?

 

[Cujo]

You are falling prey to a strong internal locus of control theory. The school you go to and how they teach the material does affect your test performance.

Mmmkay. Sign me up for UTMB and my +20-25 board points.

 

[TheElement]

For some reason, I feel that UTSW gets a lot of negative criticism, more so than any of the other Texas schools. Some of these might have merit (GPA, more induced stress), but I feel a lot of the other criticism revolves around rumors that self perpetuate themselves. For example, when I was talking to my roommates (they're juniors/premed), they told me that they thought that SW is a bad school and wouldn't want to go there because they heard from people said that their curriculum is old, that most people there are gunners, and that all their classes were curved. It turns out that just one class is curved. This just surprised me because they had never seen the school in person or knew any SW students and made their judgments based on what others said.

When I interviewed at the school and was talking to the other applicants a lot of people were like, "hmm, this school is a lot better than from what I heard." A couple of my other friends that interviewed also said that. But in order for them to think that it must mean that they had a negative impression earlier on. Before I interviewed there, I always wondered where all the negativity was coming from. Was it merited? Or just rumors? After visiting there myself, I was very impressed and found most the rumors were just that .. rumors.

Also, sure the curriculum seems old, but SW's board scores and residency matches are still very good. Yeah, this can be attributed to the type of people they accept but the students are taught well enough.

 

[littletxdoc]

So this may be a stupid question and i apologize if it has been answered previously...but if we received multiple pre-match offers is declining them on TMDSAS enough or do we have to email the schools individually?

With that said, if you are only holding one acceptance do you send your fall transcript to TMDSAS or to that one school?

Thanks ya'll

Best of luck Feb 1!

 

[iMD]

i cant decide between UTSA and A&M.

has anyone made a pros/cons list for either school and would like to share it with us?

 

[soundesign]

For those who pre-matched, or want to match to UTHSCSA, can y'all give me a run-thru of what you liked/disliked about it?

I'm trying to make up a list of pro/cons for all my schools, but since I interviewed in SA way back in August, I'm ashamed to say I have a couple gaps in my memory about the place, other than that the experience was positive (and I can't seem to find the info folder they gave so I can't be sure if what I did "remember" is actually accurate). Thanks in advanced.

And just to make sure I have it right, we don't have to send/save our lists until tomorrow night, correct?

 

[Cujo]

After visiting there myself, I was very impressed and found most the rumors were just that .. rumors..

I don't think you can say that with any degree of certainty. You interviewed over two days as did I, that's not a lot of insight into the school. The faculty was trying to wow us with cookies on the 14th floor overlooking downtown Dallas. All the other applicants were nervously talkative which can be misinterpreted as "friendly" and a potential happy family. Call a spade a spade.

Self-induced stressors at Southwestern:

1) curved biochem class during first semester. yes it's only one class, but it quickly sets the tone in the class for the rest of the four years that this is a competition

2) constant reminders from the administration that you are being ranked in the class. supposedly this past fall the administration addressed the entire class after the first biochem test because so many people were freaking out they didn't make an "A" and reminded the class that they are being ranked

3) grading scale is suspect; 93+ is an "A"

4) Clinical rotations have more pimping than some consider necessary and clinical grades are very rigidly curved

5) Call as 3rd and 4th years


I'm not saying UTSW is a bad school, but not all of those rumors are false. Know what you are getting into there, and if you accept then more power to you. Some feel med school is stressful enough as it is without more self-induced stressors.

 

[maggie08]

The school you go to and how they teach the material does affect your test performance.

agreed.

this in no way means you're guaranteed an extra 20-25 points because you picked the right school--but you'd be foolish to think the education system is ENTIRELY irrelevent to your potential to study/retain/demonstrate understanding of a rediculous amount of material from two tiny years.

is it largely due to your own effort? yes.

should school scores somewhat contribute to your decision? sure... along with the number of On The Border's/etc in the area, MS3 participation in call, proximity to dog parks in the area, whether lectures are audio/video recorded, eye-friendly lighting in the libraries, abundance of dummy-proof coffee machines, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.



btw - who's in your new avatar dr sno?

 

[mgirl21]

should school scores somewhat contribute to your decision? sure... along with the number of On The Border's/etc in the area, MS3 participation in call, proximity to dog parks in the area, whether lectures are audio/video recorded, eye-friendly lighting in the libraries, abundance of dummy-proof coffee machines, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.

This is my favorite post of all time.

 

[savant]

2) constant reminders from the administration that you are being ranked in the class. supposedly this past fall the administration addressed the entire class after the first biochem test because so many people were freaking out they didn't make an "A" and reminded the class that they are being ranked

I thought the final ranking was by quartile? Most every school has some sort of ranking.

3) grading scale is suspect; 93+ is an "A"

What is suspicious about that? Every school that is not curve-based has some boundary...

5) Call as 3rd and 4th years

Some people consider that to be good

 

[DrSno]

Mmmkay. Sign me up for UTMB and my +20-25 board points.

Her statement was simply wrong. A person's board scores will differ based on where they go to school. Don't try to deny that just because you chose A&M.

 

[maggie08]

Her statement was simply wrong. A person's board scores will differ based on where they go to school. Don't try to deny that just because you chose A&M.

ok, i rescind my position of sticking up for you.

not that you need it... you seem fiesty enough (nearly b****y enough) as it is!

 

[DrSno]

Haha, I put a winkie after it!

My avatar is of one of my favorite porn girls. Her name is Kafe.

 

[ami1983]

For those who pre-matched, or want to match to UTHSCSA, can y'all give me a run-thru of what you liked/disliked about it?

I'm trying to make up a list of pro/cons for all my schools, but since I interviewed in SA way back in August, I'm ashamed to say I have a couple gaps in my memory about the place, other than that the experience was positive (and I can't seem to find the info folder they gave so I can't be sure if what I did "remember" is actually accurate). Thanks in advanced.

And just to make sure I have it right, we don't have to send/save our lists until tomorrow night, correct?

The facilities are older than other TX schools. I loved the idea of the border rotations, however.

 

[ami1983]

Haha, I put a winkie after it!

My avatar is of one of my favorite porn girls. Her name is Kafe.

you've got to be kidding me.

 

[da8s0859q]

you've got to be kidding me.

Nope, he's not kidding. I didn't know who she is, either, but http://images.google.com certainly does, especially with SafeSearch off.

Eh.

 

[Jolie South]

Just thought I'd throw in some Baylor info for things that people might not realize:

-The grading system is not curved and there are set-points for each grade level (i.e. honors is 91.5). Basically, everyone can get honors if they score that well.

-We have a block schedule and only have class until noon.

-Baylor is linked with Ben Taub which is part of the Harris County Health District, so you'll get the down and dirty county experience here too.

-People do rotations at the VA -> I hadn't heard of any other schools doing that and I think it will provide a unique experience.

-Baylor offers rotations through Texas Children's Hospital, which is massive and would be good if you're interested in peds or subspecialty peds.

-Baylor requires a scholarly project. Basically, it's original work that you complete at some point during your time in school. It can be research, a community service project, public health project, international clinical experience, etc. It's whatever you want, and there are many many opportunities for research out there. All the Baylor faculty that I've met with thus far are very supportive and student oriented, which leaves a lot of chances out there to do what you want.

-The unique curriculum definitely leaves you ample time to study for boards and also get involved in something unique (i.e. international rotations, research) that you might not have time for at other schools.

 

[littletxdoc]

Just thought I'd throw in some Baylor info for things that people might not realize

I love Baylor, but to be honest the only concern that would really make me question going to Baylor would be with Rice Merge. Not the merge itself, but how it would affect tuition. Since Baylor has been state funded all these years its tuition is obscenely low for what you get, but I am afraid a merge with privately run Rice might raise tuition costs after next year. Have you heard anything about that? Thanks

Also this may be a stupid question and i apologize if it has been answered previously but I would appreciate an answer...but if we received multiple pre-match offers is declining them on TMDSAS enough or do we have to email the schools individually?

With that said, if you are only holding one acceptance do you send your fall transcript to TMDSAS or to that one school?

Thanks ya'll

Best of luck Feb 1!

 

[ami1983]

-Baylor requires a scholarly project. Basically, it's original work that you complete at some point during your time in school. It can be research, a community service project, public health project, international clinical experience, etc. It's whatever you want, and there are many many opportunities for research out there. All the Baylor faculty that I've met with thus far are very supportive and student oriented, which leaves a lot of chances out there to do what you want.

isn't that new for this yr? I've only heard of it at one other school I applied to, its something I'm greatly interested in.

 

[Cujo]

Her statement was simply wrong. A person's board scores will differ based on where they go to school. Don't try to deny that just because you chose A&M.

Actually, I'm going to UTSW after my fiancee and I decided that a long distance relationship is doable. Only I'm not afraid to say that its an unnecessarily competitive place.

UTMB does nothing for me, even turning down a sizable scholarship they offered me yesterday. PBL, meh.

UTSW research > UTMB research
Parkland > John Sealey/Prison system
Dallas > Galveston

Shall I go on?

 

[Jolie South]

To be honest the only concern that would really make me question going to Baylor would be with Rice Merge. Not the merge itself, but how it would affect tuition. Since Baylor has been state funded all these years its tuition is obscenely low for what you get, but I am afraid a merge with privately run Rice might raise tuition costs after next year. Have you heard anything about that? Thanks

It is not going to change much as far as medical school operations are concerned. I highly doubt that tuition will change as Baylor is private as is. The state subsidizes tuition so that cost won't be a prohibitive factor for students who would otherwise attend Baylor over other Texas schools.

The merge is viewed as a positive thing as it will expand research opportunities at both schools.